Anyone else watch Madison Bumgarner's debut and wonder wtf happened to his FB velocity? He was said to be a guy who could sit 94-96 and I don't know that I've seen him hit 90 this whole game. He's been 87-89 all night.
Very disappointing considering he's a guy touted as a big time arm with an inconsistent - though at times sharp - slider.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
im checking gameday. his velo has been down all year, especially recently. i thought he was a bit overrated to begin with, but this really looks bad. im sure he can bounce back because he is extremely young, but i think people may need to cool on him for a bit
he is very young and its late in the season, so we should cut him some slack on the velocity for now.
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
Just a thought without an answer- but he did throw over 140 IP last season coming right out of HS- that's quite a workload for a HS arm- especially when the guy was 18 (has an August 1 birthday) for most of that season.Originally Posted by Melan-cynic
One has to wonder if he is another one of those guys who vastly exceeded their previous IP/pitch totals by a large margin last year and is paying the price for it now. A young arm, especially a teenage one, really isn't ready for a ML workload.
Yeah, I agree his velo always seemed to be tenuous and/or overrated by the likes of BA, etc. However, I thought he was at least an 90-92 guy who could hit 93-94. However seeing 86-87mph fastballs from Bumgarner is a major red flag, specifically when he lives off his FB. This is more than fatigue or mechanics.
This was a guy considered the best pitching prospect in all of baseball by a lot of guys i.e. Jim Callis:
Maybe SF is burning out their arms considering Tim Alderson was also said to have lost substantial FB velocity before he was shipped to Pitt for Sanchez.Gary (Des Moines, Iowa): Hi, enjoy the chat. Is Madison Bumgarner the top pitching prospect in baseball? If not who is? Thank you.
Jim Callis (1:59 PM): David Price is the top pitching prospect in baseball, though he'll probably never see the minors again. If we're counting just minor leaguers, then yes, it's Bumgarner.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
Not to mention Bum averaging 88 tonight on the fastball against SD.
When did he get traded to the Yankees?
What did you think the post was about that you responded to.........?
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
I caught some of the game and I would certainly rather have Kershaw over Bumgarner but 20 yrs old and first game in the bigs, I'll give him a pass. Plus, he would be the best pitching prospect in the Yankees system if we had him.
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
meh, if his stuff/level were the same maybe, but id rather have das viz. he is my #1 pitching prospect in this system
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
That's short sighted, stuff doesn't disappear forever after one start. I thought that lesson was learned after Hughes.
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
Except Hughes never went from being a 92-94 guy to an 87-89 guy like MadBum. Hughes was getting knocked because he was mostly 90-92 and occasionally dipped to 89. Bumgarner touched 90 last night, sat 87-89 all game and his FB sometimes dipped as low as 86. This coming from a guy who was said to touch 97 often times last year.
Whole different ballgame.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
Not really much of an answer [shocker], but I got this question into Callis today:
Tony: Where did ya boy Madison Bumgarner's velo go? He's been at the very least touted as a 90-95 guy but often said to be a 92-95 guy who often touched 97 last year. Last night he was 87-89 touching 90 all night. That's more than fatigue/mechanics... right?
Jim Callis: His velo has been down this year. As Rob Neyer suggested in his blog this morning, that could be because the Giants have emphasized the development of his secondary pitches this year, at the expense of his fastball. I don't think he's hurt.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
At his age and his first start in the bigs at 20, I'm willing to give him a pass until there is a bigger body of work to examine, it just doesn't make sense to me to try to come up with any conclusions after one start. I would be surprised if he didn't soil himself at some point during the game.
BTW, I seen Hughes at 87-88 at times so it might not be that different, time will tell.
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
No you haven't. Hughes has never thrown a start at 87-88 so you may want to reconsider that comparison b/c it doesn't work.
BTW, Hughes touched the mid-90s in his debut @ Toronto which he also pitched at 20 years old. And for the record, I'm not saying Bumgarner is "done" or something, just pointing out what I thought was obviously a red flag in his throwing a FB anywhere from 86-89mph. Considering he has been touted as a mid-90s fastball-heavy pitcher, I find it hard to argue that point.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...pbp&pid=505830
Wonder what the updated take is from BA on Montero & Villalona.
I'm sure the golden boy will have more excuses made for him.
During a recent BA chat a writer did admit that Montero has left him in the dust. I'm sure there was an aside about how craptastic Jesus' defense was though of course. A simple, straight answer is asking too much.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
I've submitted questions a few times now & haven't gotten any answered.
You guys seem to get answers fairly often considering the amount they probably get on a regular basis.
Yeah, I'm telling you that I have and there is no arguing or reconsidering that point.
I've followed the majority of Hughes outings so I already know what Hughes has and has not hit.
I believe his velocity fluctuations is something that bears watching but outside of injury, not something that I would be too concerned about considering its his first start but time will tell.
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
FAIL.
I've probably seen every single start Hughes has ever made and sorry you're wrong, he's never once sat 87-88.
Go get me some data that shows he has. Or I can just end the suspense for you and tell you you're dead wrong.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
I won't debate with kids. Believe what you want or you go get data.
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
Something I've noticed a lot as of late, when two people disagree...the older person tends to refer to the other as "junior" or "kid."
This website is brutal that's for sure. Winning the Internet is not enough, people here go for the throat.
It should be obvious when you have "juniors" or "kids" throwing a tantrum and want to throw red marks all over the page and put FAIL in all caps. That's a hint kids.
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
lol. I'm probably older than you are. Secondly, age does not equal intelligence. Third, you're wrong, plain and simple.
"You go get data." Good stuff. Either you come up with one instance proving Hughes has sat 87-88 as a starter [he hasn't] or I go find every start Hughes has ever made and disprove your bogus statement. That makes sense.
I'm not the one who's talking out of his (_Y_). "Kiddy" enough for you?
Or you can try and back up your posts. Again, I'll save you from holding your breath. Phil's never sat 87-88 during a start.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
I see plenty of older forumers say "FAIL." In fact as of late, I've seen more older ones using that type of wording to put down an opinion than younger ones.
FAILED attempt at humor
Oh, you
If its not age then it must be the maturity level. Age absolutely has nothing to do with intelligence and finally I know I'm not wrong.lol. I'm probably older than you are. Secondly, age does not equal intelligence. Third, you're wrong, plain and simple.
"You go get the data." Good stuff. Either you come up with one instance proving Hughes has sat 87-88 as a starter [he hasn't] or I go find every start Hughes has ever made and disprove your bogus statement. That makes sense.
I'm not the one who's talking out of his (_Y_). "Kiddy" enough for you?
Or you can try and back up your posts. Again, I'll save you from holding your breath. Phil's never sat 87-88 during a start.
Look, were all Yankee fans and this all came about after discussing another teams pitcher. I'm not that hard pressed to prove you wrong in this case since its not that big of a deal so you can post all the nasty things you want but it really says a lot.
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
his name begins with "bum".. ehehehe
Speaks volumes about maturity levels but typical of a kid when done in such ways.
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
Huh? Show me where I said anything "nasty" before you tried to marginalize my posts by calling me "kid."
You effectively dodged the point and you've done so again here:
And it's not a big deal. Just remember correctly that you decided to respond to my post and critique it. I responded because what you said - that Hughes has sat 87-88mph as a starter - was absolutely ridiculous.
But I'm glad you're not that hard pressed to prove me wrong. Spinning your wheels hasn't done you much so far.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
yet antoher thread that has managed to make my balls hurt.. congrats
http://firstaid.webmd.com/testicular-pain-treatmentApply an ice pack to your scrotum to help relieve pain and swelling. Ice packs have been shown to increase the time that a testicle can survive with decreased blood flow. Wrap the ice in a cloth. Do not place the ice directly on your scrotum.
Calmer than you are.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=6374
BA article on Bum's first start...
Just what we need, a board drama queen. The red ink, the all caps, your little illustrations and the tone of your posts is whats nasty but of course you won't see it, a sure sign of immaturity or "kid" like behavior.
Re-read the post because this isn't about Bumgartner anymore, the discussion is now about Hughes, a subject you decided to respond to and the ridiculous part is you completely missed that but lets spin this your way since things are being made up like me saying Hughes "sat" at 87-88 as starter. (To bad you won't be able to show anywhere that I said that)
Anyway, I'm sure you are going to have to get the last word in (my kid nephew always does that) so you can "spin wheels" as long as you'd like, I'm out.
BTW, I've seen Hughes at 87-88 mph before.
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
You're funny. You're the one breaking out the namecalling. I only see one drama queen here, and it's the guy who refuses to stay on point and instead tries to make the argument about his oversensitivity as a substitute for coming forward with actual evidence that Hughes sits 87-88 mph.
Don't know who this Bumgartner fellow is but, yeah, when did I ever imply the argument was not about Hughes? I was responding to your inaccurate statements regarding Hughes the entire time so apparently you completely missed that. But I'd recommend against you trying to spin things too often because all it does is make you dazed and confused.Re-read the post because this isn't about Bumgartner anymore, the discussion is now about Hughes, a subject you decided to respond to and the ridiculous part is you completely missed that but lets spin this your way since things are being made up like me saying Hughes "sat" at 87-88 as starter. (To bad you won't be able to show anywhere that I said that)
And now you're trying to pretend I made up stuff? You never said Hughes sat 87-88?To refresh your memory: http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.p...postcount=2618
I said I've never seen Hughes throw a start at [or in other words "sit"] 87-88 which you bolded and then said you "have and there is no arguing or reconsidering that point." You knew we've been arguing whether or not Hughes ever sat 87-88mph with his fastball and suddenly you try to change your tune. Hm, nice try to backpedal out of this one, but it's a weak move on your part and to borrow your go-to phrase: it speaks volumes about your immaturity levels.
Right. As if this isn't your attempt to have the last word right now. Does your kid nephew paint himself into a corner this much too?Anyway, I'm sure you are going to have to get the last word in (my kid nephew always does that) so you can "spin wheels" as long as you'd like, I'm out.
lol. Sure you have. And yet not one shred of proof.BTW, I've seen Hughes at 87-88 mph before.
It's OK to be wrong, but at least try to support yourself next time.
I'm out.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
I am a big fan of PM's
Don't tease me, you know what I do for a living.
WOW, drama mama is back. Just a loss on some many levels.
Let me help you out, here is my direct quote:
But keep living in the land of make believe, it fits..........BTW, I seen Hughes at 87-88 at times so it might not be that different, time will tell.
Out!!!!
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
lol. Yeah, you're not the last word freak. But keep throwing out the names drama queen.
Go reread the conversation. You'll notice you continue to argue against my original statement that Hughes never sat at that velocity. Guess you skipped over the post I linked which I'll repost here.
So answer me this King Backpedal: if you weren't arguing Hughes has sat 87-88 in a start, what were you arguing exactly? That in his entire professional lifetime he's once thrown a FB at 87 or 88 mph? Right, that must've been what you meant, it couldn't have been that you were arguing Hughes sat at that velocity during a given start which you had been arguing the entire time.
But keep living in the land of backpedals and convenient topic changes, if it makes you feel less embarrassed.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
All nonsense and on that note back to talking about other teams prospects.lol. Yeah, you're not the last word freak. But keep throwing out the names drama queen.
Go reread the conversation. You'll notice you continue to argue against my original statement that Hughes never sat at that velocity. Guess you skipped over the post I linked which I'll repost here.
So answer me this King Backpedal: if you weren't arguing Hughes has sat 87-88 in a start, what were you arguing exactly? That in his entire professional lifetime he's once thrown a FB at 87 or 88 mph? Right, that must've been what you meant, it couldn't have been that you were arguing Hughes sat at that velocity during a given start which you had been arguing the entire time.
But keep living in the land of backpedals and convenient topic changes, if it makes you feel less embarrassed.
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
lol. Way to avoid the question. It's ok, I knew you'd respond with an excuse and not an answer since you don't have one. Abused.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
Enough!
Bring back Ted Lilly!
Sad when someone transforms into a puddle before your eyes.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
What a shame......
Anyway, in real news:
I'm looking forward to seeing Chris Tillman and Brian Matusz pitch over the weekend. Arguably the two best pitching prospects the O's have. They have a few nice players coming through that pipeline.
Cashman told Accorsi, “I feel the responsibility of millions of Yankee fans on my shoulders, fans who take this very seriously and for which every game is very important. I think of that every day.”
Scheppers signed:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/0...scheppers.html
Don't tease me, you know what I do for a living.
A few ex-Yankee minor leaguers finally got callups this September:
John Axford with the Brewers
Matt Carson with the A's
Justin Pope with the Cubs
Also, RJ Swindle has been around this year too
Villalona suspected of murder?!? WOW.
i guess that gives everyone no excuses
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
Pretty advanced for his age... /too soon?
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showpost.p...60&postcount=4
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