Yanks Looking At Wilson Betemit

[McMoose]

I love Cano but Betemit outhit him slightly last year and moreso this year. He also walks more and is more versatile defensively. And according to Baseball Reference his actual date of birth is November 2, 1981, making him just less than a year older than Cano.

I wouldn't say its clear case of Betemit being better, just that the argument can be made.

Betemit does strike out a little more, but I just don't understand what the fascination with Cano is. Is it that he will eventually develop more discipline, patience, and power because I am rooting for Cano to be great but aside from that high average he doesn't do much else? Don't yell.

[wileedog]

Betemit does strike out a little more, but I just don't understand what the fascination with Cano is. Is it that he will eventually develop more discipline, patience, and power because I am rooting for Cano to be great but aside from that high average he doesn't do much else? Don't yell.

Because Cano is "home grown".

That adds like .200 OPS to any player when making comparisons.

[TMS]

I love Cano but Betemit outhit him slightly last year and moreso this year. He also walks more and is more versatile defensively. And according to Baseball Reference his actual date of birth is November 2, 1981, making him just less than a year older than Cano.

I wouldn't say its clear case of Betemit being better, just that the argument can be made.

He had less than half as many atbats last year as Cano playing in a part time role whereas Cano was a fulltime player, so I don't put any credence into the argument that he outhit him. You have to judge a player against another based on a similar sample. I think it's kinda silly to be putting this guy above our Allstar 2B when he's not even a starting player on his own team.

[gold23]

I mean....Proctor for Betemit is a no-brainer. Does it hurt the team initially? Probably, as it strains the pen a bunch. Though Villone becomes the 7th inning guy, which is likely ok.

Would they then trade Cano? I'm not sure, but it would be a possibility. If they could get REAL value for Robby, I would consider it.

[Quangormo]

I love Betemit and would love to acquire him. I thought this story was in teresting, though.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5820522

The Yankees would raise a number of questions if they traded reliever Scott Proctor for Braves infielder Wilson Betemit, a possibility first reported by the New York Post and confirmed Wednesday by FOXSports.com.

The trade of Proctor would make more sense if right-hander Octavio Dotel already had made his expected return from elbow surgery; if the Yankees moved Proctor now, they almost certainly would need to add another late-inning reliever in a separate deal.

The addition of Betemit, whose best positions are third base and shortstop, also would be something of a head-scratcher.

Betemit could fill in at second while Robinson Cano recovers from his hamstring injury, but probably isn't a long-term solution at that position. His future playing time, then, likely would be minimal unless the Yankees traded Cano or — ahem — third baseman Alex Rodriguez.

The return of third baseman Chipper Jones from an oblique strain Wednesday night could make the Braves more willing to trade Betemit, but even then they might be reluctant to part with their emerging talent.

Betemit, 25, could develop into a 25-homer, 40-double man, and the Braves control him through 2010. Trading such a player for a reliever, even one as good as Proctor or the Padres' Scott Linebrink, would be a decidedly risky move. The Braves might want another player added to such a deal.

[Fabien Brandy]

You have to judge a player against another based on a similar sample.

I disagree. I think teams make decisions on a regular basis through a combination of major league stats, minor league stats, scouting reports and personal preferences with very few decisions being made based purely on a similar sample.

Cano had a weak OBP last season and didn't improve his BB rate this year before getting injured, whereas the history of baseball is full of guys who weren't 'regulars on their own team' who turned out to be stars. Brian Giles comes to mind.

I'm not saying Betemit is better than Cano - only that some (including some Yankee insiders) might quite reasonably.

[Iknowcool]

If its just Proctor for Betemit straight up, it should be done.

[RIYankeeFan]

Betemit does strike out a little more, but I just don't understand what the fascination with Cano is. Is it that he will eventually develop more discipline, patience, and power because I am rooting for Cano to be great but aside from that high average he doesn't do much else? Don't yell.

Would the Twins trade Liriano for Kazmir, would the Red Sox trade Papelbon for K-Rod, Ortiz for Thome? No. These players represent the future of the franchise. They become household names with fans. It's especially true when they come up from the farm. Fans love it, it's like the player was born with that team. They didn't have to make outrageous trades to aquire him, or pay him tens of millions to get him in the off season. Not every player that comes up goes off to be a superstar. Now is Cano a superstar? No. But he's a damn good ball player. Last year if you go read analysts columns, they all agreed that Cano wouldn't have what it takes to make it. Second year All-Star, ha proved them all wrong.

He was a savior for the Yankees in 2005. No one expected him to perform the way he did, and he's only getting better. Because of this, and players like him, fans form a bond. It's why Bernie still gets some of the loudest cheers in Yankee Stadium.

If you acquire a player like Betemit (who's slightly better) than Cano, only to flip Cano, you're probably going to recieve backlash on all fronts. From the fans, media, and I'm sure guys in the clubhouse wouldn't be thrilled. It reminds me of those idiots in Tampa. We can get Cairo, or for a little extra we can get Womack! "Thanks Cano for all you've done, the fans love you, but we think we can get slightly better production from Betemit. Bring sun screen, it's sunny in Atlanta."

So if you're going to trade away a teams player that's had a significant impact, you better make damn sure it's a great move for the club.

Cano has earned his stripes, that's where fascination comes from.

[ppa79]

Would the Twins trade Liriano for Kazmir, would the Red Sox trade Papelbon for K-Rod, Ortiz for Thome? No. These players represent the future of the franchise. They become household names with fans. It's especially true when they come up from the farm. Fans love it, it's like the player was born with that team. They didn't have to make outrageous trades to aquire him, or pay him tens of millions to get him in the off season. Not every player that comes up goes off to be a superstar. Now is Cano a superstar? No. But he's a damn good ball player. Last year if you go read analysts columns, they all agreed that Cano wouldn't have what it takes to make it. Second year All-Star, ha proved them all wrong.

He was a savior for the Yankees in 2005. No one expected him to perform the way he did, and he's only getting better. Because of this, and players like him, fans form a bond. It's why Bernie still gets some of the loudest cheers in Yankee Stadium.

If you acquire a player like Betemit (who's slightly better) than Cano, only to flip Cano, you're probably going to recieve backlash on all fronts. From the fans, media, and I'm sure guys in the clubhouse wouldn't be thrilled. It reminds me of those idiots in Tampa. We can get Cairo, or for a little extra we can get Womack! "Thanks Cano for all you've done, the fans love you, but we think we can get slightly better production from Betemit. Bring sun screen, it's sunny in Atlanta."

So if you're going to trade away a teams player that's had a significant impact, you better make damn sure it's a great move for the club.

Cano has earned his stripes, that's where fascination comes from.

If getting Betemit reminds you of the Womack situation, then you haven't been paying attention. Betemit is a young talented player. Talent and production wise, I would say Betemit and Cano are the same. If you can get Betemit and trade either Cano or Betemit for a very good pitcher, it tremendously helps the team. And we won't lose anything at 2nd.

[Yankee Steve]

The Yankees NEED is not a second baseman for 2 weeks, nor a utility player who is young and will balk at continuing to do so. Betemit is not a real power threat and putting him at first makes little sense. Why trade Cano when Cano is not the problem? Why trade Proctor when he is cheap and is doing a nice job. PLus, you have no one to take his place. This move would wreak of making a move to make a move. The problem is a pitching and a corner OF. Trading away Proctor for a utility infielder makes no sense and Brian won't do it unless he has another move immediately following. Also, let's remember that Betemit's numbers come from the NL and in limited playing time. You cannot simply extrapolate numbers by doubling playing time - some guys can't cut it as a full-time player. Not saying that is the case with Betemit, but who knows?

[Bub]

This move would wreak of making a move to make a move. The problem is a pitching and a corner OF.

Right, but the corner OF problem is not a major one and is short-lived. The problem concerning the lack of a 4th starter will continue the rest of the year if a move isn't made.

[ppa79]

The Yankees NEED is not a second baseman for 2 weeks, nor a utility player who is young and will balk at continuing to do so. Betemit is not a real power threat and putting him at first makes little sense. Why trade Cano when Cano is not the problem? Why trade Proctor when he is cheap and is doing a nice job. PLus, you have no one to take his place. This move would wreak of making a move to make a move. The problem is a pitching and a corner OF. Trading away Proctor for a utility infielder makes no sense and Brian won't do it unless he has another move immediately following. Also, let's remember that Betemit's numbers come from the NL and in limited playing time. You cannot simply extrapolate numbers by doubling playing time - some guys can't cut it as a full-time player. Not saying that is the case with Betemit, but who knows?

If you think of Betemit as just a utility player you are totally misinformed.

[TMS]

This is 1 of the sillier argument's I've had on a message board, but I'll indulge it since it's been a slow morning at work. ;p

Let's see, if Betemit's a better player than Cano, then why isn't he (Betemit) starting on a team that's clearly inferior in talent level to the Yankees? If you were to make a Cano for Betemit trade straight up, then I guess we'd be getting back fair value? I also assume Cano would then be relegated to a bench role on the Braves & take over Betemit's role on that team? I'm trying to think up a few more, but let me drink my morning coffee & get back to you. It gets funnier the more I think about it.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

Let's see, if Betemit's a better player than Cano, then why isn't he (Betemit) starting on a team that's clearly inferior in talent level to the Yankees?

Wow, it would truly be hard to make a more nonsensical point than that. Kudos I guess.

[justin32099]

This is 1 of the sillier argument's I've had on a message board, but I'll indulge it since it's been a slow morning at work. ;p

Let's see, if Betemit's a better player than Cano, then why isn't he (Betemit) starting on a team that's clearly inferior in talent level to the Yankees? If you were to make a Cano for Betemit trade straight up, then I guess we'd be getting back fair value? I also assume Cano would then be relegated to a bench role on the Braves & take over Betemit's role on that team? I'm trying to think up a few more, but let me drink my morning coffee & get back to you. It gets funnier the more I think about it.

Err...Atlanta may be "inferior in talent level," but that's mostly in the pitching staff--their 2B, 3B, and SS (Giles, Chipper Jones, and Renteria) are all better than either Cano or Betemit. If Cano was coming through the Braves farm system, he would be in the minors or a bench player.

Give me the guy who has actually shown power in his career over the guys who "might because they're young."

[justin32099]

If you think of Betemit as just a utility player you are totally misinformed.

It's unfortunate evidence of the "utility player" stereotype--if you play different positions, no matter how well you hit, you get dismissed as a "utility player." Hey, Albert Pujols was shuffled between four different positions (1B, 3B, LF, RF) as a rookie in 2001. Is he a utility player, too? Should we trade Proctor for him? Yeesh.

[ppa79]

This is 1 of the sillier argument's I've had on a message board, but I'll indulge it since it's been a slow morning at work. ;p

Let's see, if Betemit's a better player than Cano, then why isn't he (Betemit) starting on a team that's clearly inferior in talent level to the Yankees? If you were to make a Cano for Betemit trade straight up, then I guess we'd be getting back fair value? I also assume Cano would then be relegated to a bench role on the Braves & take over Betemit's role on that team? I'm trying to think up a few more, but let me drink my morning coffee & get back to you. It gets funnier the more I think about it.

Whats funny is that you are making statements and you have no way to back them up.

2005 season
Betemit Cano
OPS+ 103 102

Hands down Betemit is a better defender there is no arguement against that.

If you look at their minor league careers they are almost identical.

Betemit
minor league career numbers
avg. obp slug.
.278 .339 .425

Cano
minor league career numbers
avg. obp slug.
.277 .329 .424


They offensively are both similar players who have high trade value. Both are young and cheap. Cano and Betemit are pretty much interchangable. If you can get Betemit for Scott Proctor it should be a no brainer because then you can either package Cano or Betemit for someone even better than can help your team and you still don't lose anything at 2nd base.

Come back when you have something that makes sense.

[TMS]

Wow, it would truly be hard to make a more nonsensical point than that. Kudos I guess.

It's a fitting point to a completely nonsensical argument about a utility role player being better than a 22 year old who in his second year in the league is already an Allstar.

[ppa79]

It's a fitting point to a completely nonsensical argument about a utility role player being better than a 22 year old who in his second year in the league is already an Allstar.

Whats funny is that you think Betemit is a utility player.
I think you need another cup of coffee.

[Rich]

It's a fitting point to a completely nonsensical argument about a utility role player being better than a 22 year old who in his second year in the league is already an Allstar.

Giles and Jones are ahead of him. That's hardly a knock.

[TMS]

Whats funny is that you are making statements and you have no way to back them up.

2005 season
Betemit Cano
OPS+ 103 102

Hands down Betemit is a better defender there is no arguement against that.

If you look at their minor league careers they are almost identical.

Betemit
minor league career numbers
avg. obp slug.
.278 .339 .425

Cano
minor league career numbers
avg. obp slug.
.277 .329 .424


They offensively are both similar players who have high trade value. Both are young and cheap. Cano and Betemit are pretty much interchangable. If you can get Betemit for Scott Proctor it should be a no brainer because then you can either package Cano or Betemit for someone even better than can help your team and you still don't lose anything at 2nd base. Come back when you have something that makes sense.

I can list any # of minor league players with similar stats to those. Would I be justified in saying they were better players than Cano? Cano's exceeded everyone's expectations in the majors & currently his trade value is way higher than Wilson Betemit. You can't gauge his value or his quality as a major leaguer based on the #'s he put up in the minors, please, enough of that. This argument gets funnier & funnier as the day goes on.

[justin32099]

I can list any # of minor league players with similar stats to those. Would I be justified in saying they were better players than Cano? Cano's exceeded everyone's expectations in the majors & currently his trade value is way higher than Wilson Betemit. You can't gauge his value or his quality as a major leaguer based on the #'s he put up in the minors, please, enough of that. This argument gets funnier & funnier as the day goes on.

It's inane to compare trade value. Betemit might be traded because Marcus Giles, Chipper Jones, and Edgar Renteria, all of whom are way better than either Betemit or Cano, make up the Braves' infield. Cano won't be traded because Miguel Freaking Cairo is currently our starting second baseman. We have no better options, while the Braves do.

[TMS]

It's inane to compare trade value. Betemit might be traded because Marcus Giles, Chipper Jones, and Edgar Renteria, all of whom are way better than either Betemit or Cano, make up the Braves' infield. Cano won't be traded because Miguel Freaking Cairo is currently our starting second baseman. We have no better options, while the Braves do.

Cano for Betemit. Would you make that trade if you're the Yankees GM? If you're the Braves GM?

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

It's a fitting point to a completely nonsensical argument about a utility role player being better than a 22 year old who in his second year in the league is already an Allstar.

Don't add insult to your own injury. Really, it's truly not necessary.

[ppa79]

I can list any # of minor league players with similar stats to those. Would I be justified in saying they were better players than Cano? Cano's exceeded everyone's expectations in the majors & currently his trade value is way higher than Wilson Betemit. You can't gauge his value or his quality as a major leaguer based on the #'s he put up in the minors, please, enough of that. This argument gets funnier & funnier as the day goes on.

Whats funny is that you don't realize the stuff you are saying is nonsense.

Betemit was always regarded as a really good prospect. He was prospect of the year of the Braves organizations two years in a row.

The point I am making is that if you can get Betemit for Proctor you should do it. Then you can turn around and create a package including Betemit or Cano for even a better player and in the end you get that better player and don't really lose anything at 2nd base offensively.

[ppa79]

Cano for Betemit. Would you make that trade if you're the Yankees GM? If you're the Braves GM?

Its not Cano for Betemit, its Proctor for Betemit. Geez. Are you even thinking before you are typing.

[TMS]

Don't add insult to your own injury. Really, it's truly not necessary.

I appreciate your enlightening commentary to my posts. Maybe you can add something to the discussion next time other than your snide little snit comments.

[TMS]

Its not Cano for Betemit, its Proctor for Betemit. Geez. Are you even thinking before you are typing.

I've already made my position known on the Proctor for Betemit argument. I'm just asking if you'd trade Cano for Betemit since you all seem to think he's a better ballplayer. Do you think Cashman would even consider that trade?

[JamieMadrox]

I've already made my position known on the Proctor for Betemit argument. I'm just asking if you'd trade Cano for Betemit since you all seem to think he's a better ballplayer. Do you think Cashman would even consider that trade?

i wouldn't trade cano for betemit simply because it's basically a wash

[ppa79]

I've already made my position known on the Proctor for Betemit argument. I'm just asking if you'd trade Cano for Betemit since you all seem to think he's a better ballplayer. Do you think Cashman would even consider that trade?

Who cares? Cano for Betemit does nothing for the Yankees, but Betemit for Proctor enables the Yankees to package either Cano or Betemit for a better player so in the end you come out as a better team while losing really nothing at 2nd.

[justin32099]

Cano for Betemit. Would you make that trade if you're the Yankees GM? If you're the Braves GM?

Yes if I'm the Yankees GM.
No if I'm the Braves GM.

[TMS]

So how long you been a Braves fan?

[justtxyank]

Keith Law just stated in his chat that this deal is no longer on the table.

[27IsNext]

Keith Law just stated in his chat that this deal is no longer on the table.

It's truly a shame we didn't go through with it if it was indeed a Proctor for Betemit swap. Why the organization is so high on Proctor is beyond me.

[mbn007]

It's truly a shame we didn't go through with it if it was indeed a Proctor for Betemit swap. Why the organization is so high on Proctor is beyond me.

My take is the Braves still have questions regarding Chipper's health, Renteria's age, et al. So they backed off, but not because they were unhappy with the deal. But because it leaves them very vulnerable.

[Mark19]

Keith Law just stated in his chat that this deal is no longer on the table.

damn Torre for bringing Proctor in on wednesday and wrecking his trade value

[nydeano]

damn Torre for bringing Proctor in on wednesday and wrecking his trade value

Look at it like this-he increased Chac's value

[ppa79]

Keith Law just stated in his chat that this deal is no longer on the table.

Oh well.

[Quangormo]

My take is the Braves still have questions regarding Chipper's health, Renteria's age, et al. So they backed off, but not because they were unhappy with the deal. But because it leaves them very vulnerable.

Would they be interested in having the Yankees throw in one of our extra infielders?

[RIYankeeFan]

My point wasn't to say who's better than the other. But why would you trade a face that relates to your franchise for someone of equal value? That's why I brough up a Liriano for Kazmir trade. Why? Both are ace leftys. Kazmir represents the pitching staff of TB. Liriano represents the Twins, as does Santana. Why do you trade a "house hold" named player, for his counterpart when they aren't the problem?

Just to say you made a trade? If we get Betemit, I'd rather flip him for a pitcher rather than Cano. Cano is something special, he's a Yankee. He earned his spot on the roster. Could Benemit earn his spot? Sure, but it's not the same. Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to see a core established again. A core of Yankee prospects that can help this team win a WS.

[ppa79]

My point wasn't to say who's better than the other. But why would you trade a face that relates to your franchise for someone of equal value? That's why I brough up a Liriano for Kazmir trade. Why? Both are ace leftys. Kazmir represents the pitching staff of TB. Liriano represents the Twins, as does Santana. Why do you trade a "house hold" named player, for his counterpart when they aren't the problem?

Just to say you made a trade? If we get Betemit, I'd rather flip him for a pitcher rather than Cano. Cano is something special, he's a Yankee. He earned his spot on the roster. Could Benemit earn his spot? Sure, but it's not the same. Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to see a core established again. A core of Yankee prospects that can help this team win a WS.

You flip the guy who you can get you the better pitcher.

[gold23]

Keith Law just stated in his chat that this deal is no longer on the table.

Keith Law is not very highly regarded within the scouting community, and I'd be surprised if he had information outside of what anyone has heard. GM's and front office people tend to "leak" info to beat writers or national journalists for reasons- they wouldn't have a reason to give Keith Law information.

[MassNYYfan]

Hey, Albert Pujols was shuffled between four different positions (1B, 3B, LF, RF) as a rookie in 2001. Is he a utility player, too? Should we trade Proctor for him? Yeesh.

HELL YES!

Get it done, Cash!!

[gold23]

Who cares? Cano for Betemit does nothing for the Yankees, but Betemit for Proctor enables the Yankees to package either Cano or Betemit for a better player so in the end you come out as a better team while losing really nothing at 2nd.

This is really the point. I personally like Cano a TON- but also believe Betemit may be a better all around baseball player. More power, better defense- will most likely have a higher OPS. I like Robby's ability, but it's really not a huge difference. Betemit has ALWAYS been extremely highly regarded amongst people in the game.

But the point is....if they could flip either one of them for a legitimate player (and I think they probably could), I would do this deal.

I don't want to deal Proctor, but the ability to turn Proctor's trade value into Robby Cano's trade value is simply overwhelming.

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

This is really the point. I personally like Cano a TON- but also believe Betemit may be a better all around baseball player. More power, better defense- will most likely have a higher OPS. I like Robby's ability, but it's really not a huge difference. Betemit has ALWAYS been extremely highly regarded amongst people in the game.

But the point is....if they could flip either one of them for a legitimate player (and I think they probably could), I would do this deal.

I don't want to deal Proctor, but the ability to turn Proctor's trade value into Robby Cano's trade value is simply overwhelming.

Exactly and I am dissapointed the deal is off the table. It would have been amazing.

[RIYankeeFan]

You flip the guy who you can get you the better pitcher.

Well will you feel that way in the future when Hughes, and Tabata are talk of trades (if and when) they make it to the big leagues safely? I see no reason why people complain about trading prospects then. If this is a talked about player amongst fans, a player coveted by the front office, a player who's been off limits in trades through the minors, then in the majors he gets a "Thanks for the ride, you've been traded."

And people wonder why our farm system "sucks", we trade them all away because we're never satisfied. Sure some go on to other teams to have success. Then we try to bring them back for us at triple the cost of either money or prospects at the deadline. Soriano anyone?

It reminds me of Stienbrenners love for an All-Star at every position. We the deplete the future of the franchise to say "Hey look who we got!" Our core goes off to become another teams core. Then we get pissed when we see them succeed, and say "you know, we should hang on to a few of these guys." That is until the next best trade comes along. Rinse and repeat. Then the Yankees become the same destination team to cash in one more time before you retire. Not the team that finally says you know what, instead of winning 1 this year, lets win a bunch within the next 10.

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

Well will you feel that way in the future when Hughes, and Tabata are talk of trades (if and when) they make it to the big leagues safely? I see no reason why people complain about trading prospects then. If this is a talked about player amongst fans, a player coveted by the front office, a player who's been off limits in trades through the minors, then in the majors he gets a "Thanks for the ride, you've been traded."

And people wonder why our farm system "sucks", we trade them all away because we're never satisfied. Sure some go on to other teams to have success. Then we try to bring them back for us at triple the cost of either money or prospects at the deadline. Soriano anyone?

It reminds me of Stienbrenners love for an All-Star at every position. We the deplete the future of the franchise to say "Hey look who we got!" Our core goes off to become another teams core. Then we get pissed when we see them succeed, and say "you know, we should hang on to a few of these guys." That is until the next best trade comes along. Rinse and repeat. Then the Yankees become the same destination team to cash in one more time before you retire. Not the team that finally says you know what, instead of winning 1 this year, lets win a bunch within the next 10.

Un ................ing believable

[In Mo I Trust]

Our core goes off to become another teams core. Then we get pissed when we see them succeed,

Which ex-Yankee farmhands are you pissed at seeing succeed in other places?

[BJG]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to see a core established again. A core of Yankee prospects that can help this team win a WS.

Sentimentallity is the worst emotion when trying to build a team. If the goal is to acquire young players to build around, it shouldn't matter if they were drafted or signed by the Yankees or acquired in some other way.

[Quangormo]

I'm not upset to see ex-Yankee farmhands or players do well elsewhere, unless it's with a team I don't like, such as the Red Sox, Mets, Dodgers, Orioles. Then it irritates me because they're on those teams.