You make more than one move. Get a Baez and/or Hawkins, then take this deal. Now the bullpen is (if anything) stronger and we've got Betemit.Originally Posted by GoRocket
You make more than one move. Get a Baez and/or Hawkins, then take this deal. Now the bullpen is (if anything) stronger and we've got Betemit.
Schuerholz was on 790 this morning saying they had some discussions, but with the uncertainity of Chipper and Giles he had some mixed emotions.
Also mentioned how the Braves have attempted to bolster to their bullpen since the beginning of Spring Training.
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That's because writers are generally only concerned with the names they know. They don't get that just because they don't know a minor leaguer's name, or because the deal is "proctor and some minor leaguer(s)", that those young guys could be important. Almost every trade rumor you hear is just the ML guys involved, unless big-time blue chippers are being discussed.
I have no idea, but I'm willing to guess a guy like Kennard at the very least, but probably more along the lines of a Garcia or even Clippard.
Just because we know and love these guys doesn't mean that the rest of the baseball world views them in the same capacity. Clippard is an average prospect on the trading market. The fact that we think he has a real shot to be a very good ML pitcher someday doesn't mean anything out there.
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We dont need Proctor. Once Proctor falls back down to earth, his value is nothing. It's better to trade him now than to hold onto him for too long and over play our hand.
What's up, first time poster. I was thinking you get Betemit from Proctor and then either spin him to the Phillies who have third base issues (David Bell sucks and is gone after this year) or keep him and see how he does at first base. Gordon and Lidle for Betemit would give us the bridge to Mo and a fifth starting pitcher, all for Scott Proctor.
Betemit, 25, could develop into a 25-homer, 40-double man
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5820184
Betemit wouldn´t even get us Gordon...
We could send them Nick Green.
If we got Betemit I would entertain the possibility of trading Cano in the off-season. I really like him but his lack of walking skills puts me in doubt of his future productiveness.
I don't think it's a horrible trade, however, I would feel better about it IF I knew Dotel would come back and be effective and IF I knew Farnsworth's back would not be a re-occurring issue.
The 11th Commandment - "Thou shall NEVER count out The New York Yankees"
I would entertain the idea, but I really like the idea of having a player on the bench who we won't have to pull our hair out each time he is given a start.
If it involves Clippard, no deal. He will be a solid #3, at worst.
ETA - 2008 or so.
Dont know if anyone read Phil Allard's article on how valuable Cairo and Proctor are to this team. Exactly the same thing that I said yesterday. The reason why the Braves are looking to trade Betemit to the Yankees is because they have potentially the best set-up man out there if you listened to what the Braves had to say. The Padres are also interested, however, they feel Proctor is a better solution to the club than Linebrink. With that said, Torre said before the game yesterday that Proctor was unavailable for the game, however, with so much confidence in Proctor he had no choice but to go to him after Beam (who many of you thought can replace Proctor if he gets traded) got rocked. Not saying Proctor pitched any better but he did give up 4 weak hits - 2 ground balls and two bloop hits and probably shouldnt have pitched anyway and I blame Torre for not utilizing the bullpen better last night. Cannot trade Proctor or any other relief pitcher!!
We certiantly can trade Proctor.
What the hell is it with the Proctor love? He's simply not that good people. He's on a hot streak right now, like he was at the start of the season and he's bound to tail off soon.
Trading Proctor for Betemit is a no-brainer. You do it 10 times out of 10. Villone can take Proctor's spot as the set-up man if Farnsworth isnt healthy.
Betemit's ceiling is as a starter--somewhere in the infield. Solid glove, cannon arm. Keep both, though. And groom Betemit as a 1Bman unless we package Cano for the likes of Zambrano or something similar.
I think the deal will go down...if and only if Cashman finds someone on the market or in our system to replace his production. That is not impossible. Therefore, this deal is.
I am willing to gamble all the money in the world that Proctor will not be traded for an infielder. Not saying I love Proctor, and if you want to put Villone in Proctor's spot, although I would not love it, I would not argue with you. But if you are going to tell me that T.J. Beam is than going to take Villone's spot as like the back-up setup man that you gotta be out of your mind. There is no way you can tell me that Beam is a better solution than Proctor.
Rosenthal, the reigning rumor king, has confirmed this as being a legit possibility.
I am now thinking that IF anything happens it would see Proctor and a mediocre AA guy go to the Braves for Betemit with the Cashman either working something out with his buddy Kevin Towers in SD or bringing in a mediocre veteran like Hawkins or Hernandez.
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Can someone tell me when Proctor turned into Jesus reincarnated? I seem to have missed the memo. Yes, he's having a great year but look at his career numbers. He is NOT that good!
The same people saying Proctor is untouchable were saying how great Sturtze was last year and how he finally found it and yada yada yada... well, how's he doing this year?
Buy low. Sell high.
Bingo
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Postseason OPS: .977
Well said. So we can all assume Kulish29 has lost it. What did you think of Mr Beam last night? He's working on that 10+ ERA. I like Beam, but don't expect him to come in a high leverage situation and be lights out. Last night he started the damn inning. I do like Proctor, and last night he was not good. However, his arm was dragging in the dirt from the previous multiple inning of work. I am not saying Proctor can't be traded, but you have to bolster the SP/RP, if you expect to be in the playoffs. You have given no alternatives to bolster the pitching staff. Betemit is nice, but a utility guy will not get us to October.
We need to get this deal done. Proctor is a dime a dozen.
Agreed, proctor should be gone - but at the end of the season. You dont have time now to see if Beam or Smith can take his role. Judging by last night, they simply cant. If you end up getting a great reliever in return by Monday than I would say trade proctor now while he is pitching great. But I would not want to rely on Beam, Smith, or hopefully dotel coming back after not pitching in a yr and a half and being effective. Its just not smart.
Give me names of the dime a dozen we can get if we trade Proctor. Let's see, I want a mid 90's FB, and a decent cure/change up.
Proctor blew his 6th save last night.Judging by last night, they simply cant.
I'd decide how much 1 game really means to you before making statements like that.
"Metallica. Screaming crowd. Jog to the mound. Game over." -C. Jennings
If that was the case, there wouldn't be teams out there wanting to trade for him, now would there? The guy has been effective reliever out of the BP for us this year. Those guys don't just grow on trees. TJ Beam hasn't proven he can get major league hitters out with any consistency & some of you think he can already handle the 7th inning duties for this team. Proctor's got a vital role on this ballclub, & it would be lunacy to trade him away unless you have a viable contingency plan to replace him.
Its good to have you on my side, man
I do like Proctor, I dont think he is horrible and like I said if you want to trade him, do it in the offseason when you have time to screw around with your bullpen. TJ Beam should not have even come close to coming into the game, however, with Farn's back and Proctor supposed to be unavailable Torre really had no choice. Of course, I am sure everyone expected it last night that Beam was not going to get the job done and he simply didnt, therefore Proctor had to warm up in a hurry if you guys watched the game and was brought in right away - even though he was not supposed to pitch last night. He gave up 2 ground balls that went underneath his legs and over phillips head and two bloop hits that should have been caught had melky read it right.
Matt Smith has a 0 ERA in 12 IP. Do you really think he couldn't post at least a 4.00 ERA like Proctor has? And I don't care if he's a lefty, if he can get hitters out, that's all that matters.
Smith + Betemit > Proctor + Phillips
You have to be in line to notch a save in order to blow one. I'm assuming you meant to say he blew his 6th lead in a game. Mariano's blown a few leads this season too. No reliever is perfect. There's been plenty more times this year where Proctor's come into a game & notched some very important innings to keep the game within reach & set things up for Farns & Mo after him. You guys are way undervaluing a guy like Proctor. With Tanyon Sturtze out w/an injury, he's the guy Torre's looked to as the glue for much of the season coming out of the BP.
Awesome Post!!
Name me the dozen ppl who you would rather have on this club over Proctor. Bet you cant name three who are used to the pressure being in late and close games, used to the American league hitters, and pitching in yankee stadium. I dont know about you guys but im not up for testing new relievers with 2 months left to go in the season and 6 teams in a playoff chase.
And once again, the braves think proctor is potentially the best reliever out there which is why they want to deal with the yankees - not the padres or any other team. And again, proctor was not supposed to be available last night and to come in with 1st and 3rd no outs after Beam completely sucked is outrageous to blame proctor.
I would argue that Villone is more reliable and consistent than Proctor. Forget about the L/R stuff. Villone is a vet who does a good job and can equal if not better Proctor's production. Smith has done nothing but give the Yankees scoreless innings. He can assume Villone's role. If not Smith than I'll be willing to give Cox a go at it. Also I see Betemit as more of an upgrade at 1B than a Cano replacement, but I can't rule out that possibility.
"If you are falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly"....JS
I really couldn't answer that question. Until he is put into a situation where he's pressured to keep other teams from scoring late in games, we can't really project. One thing's for sure though, TJ Beam is not ready to be that guy. At least not yet. Our need right now is not for a 2B/3B like Betemit. Our need is in the starting rotation & in the OF. Tell me how it makes sense to trade an integral part of our setup crew for a player we don't even need at this point?
You are his biggest fan, and you are bailing on him!
Alex Rodriguez
Career OPS: .965
Postseason OPS: .977
Look at the games Smith has pitched, name me one game that he has come in where there were men on base in a close game late in the game and has gotten the job done. You want to say he has pitched a scoreless season so far, obviously i cannot disagree with the stats. But he was used in blowouts or early in games. He is not used to the pressure and cannot test him this late in the season. And i am not willing to bring up cox now either and see how he does under the pressure.
I am not bailing on him - but you guys are right, sell high, but dont do it when we have no reliable backups. trade him in the offseason and hope we go out and get gordon or a reliever who is possibly better than proctor. I would never trade him right now and pray that beam and smith can fit his shoes.
I like Villone out of the BP. I wish Torre would use him more & stop taxing Proctor's arm so much. He tried that the other day but it backfired on him & he had to use Proctor anyway, but for the most part I think using Villone more would make Proctor alot more effective.
Again, I would have no problem trading Proctor if you had a viable contingency plan in place. If you could for example make a trade to get Flash Gordon back from the Phils, then I'd be more than happy to part w/Proctor to get a guy like Betemit, because he'd be a luxury we could afford to lose at that point. But right now, we can't afford to lose any one of our relievers with all the questions surrounding the last 2 spots in our starting rotation.
So I am assuming Betemit learns 1B on the fly?
Questions? Contingency plans? I thought this was the fantasy baseball forum...
I think that Gordon would help us more than any other acquisition this year, especially since there is no SP out there worth the cost. I think Proctor looks great vs freeswinging ballclubs and weaker lineups, but against teams like Boston he doesn't seem to be fooling anyone. I trust Villone more than I do Proctor and I believe that Smith has ice in his veins and would have no trouble taking his spot. We can afford to trade Proctor imo.
"If you are falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly"....JS
You guys have a pretty short memory. Though Villone was fine last night, he couldn't gets outs the night before. Proctor should not have been used at all last night. He was great in his last three starts. Considering how many bad pitchers I've had to watch from the bullpen over the years, Proctor should not be traded now.
The way some ppl think - I thought so too
Its like Isiah Thomas and the knicks - trying to knock some sense into them.. You cant keep getting players cuz you think they are good, you need players that will fit into your team, you dont need 4 starting point guards on your team.
The same way you dont need Betemit. He has practically no experience at 1st or 2nd yet thats where you want to put him and jeopardize our bullpen in the process.
We went out and got Karsay look how that turned out, got Stanton, Benitez, and Nelson back and that didnt work out either. Dotel has not pitched in well over a year and yet you are relying on him now too. Torre is finally comfortable and confident in proctor and you are willing to trade him now as well??? Relievers are not a dime a dozen and you cannot just hope Beam and Smith have ice in their bloods and get the job done. thats not how baseball works.
Villone's inconsistency is more a product of rust and misuse, than anything else.
"If you are falling off a cliff, you might as well try to fly"....JS
It is nothing like that.
Alex Rodriguez
Career OPS: .965
Postseason OPS: .977
If Proctor were as consistant as his fans are persistent with this argument, we'd have another Mo on our hands.
Sadly, it doesn't work that way.
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Well, for him to get playing time, he would have to learn first base which is a new position for him. So, he would be learning a new position on a new team in the heart of a pennant race - not necessarily the best way to set up this kid for success.
The other alternative would be to use him as a utility player. I don't think we should be in the business of weakening our bullpen to strengthen our bench.
The 11th Commandment - "Thou shall NEVER count out The New York Yankees"
Same goes for Proctor... He was not even supposed to pitch last night.. He leads the league in appearances - talking about worn out
Great Point - all he is good for is to sit on the bench and be trade bait in the winter, so you are willing to weaken the bullpen especially now the way the pitching has been - starters cant get past the 5th inning and relievers are not getting the outs and are being overused.
Sadly, if it were as easy to find reliable middle relievers as some of you seem to think it is, we wouldn't be having this discussion to begin with.
What do you expect Proctor's ERA to be at the end of this year?
It's a hair under 4 right now. He had a sub 2 era in April, 5+ in May and June, about 3.5 in July.
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