But did they win the WS because they didn't have a good LF? No-they won it because they had good players at lots of other positions.Originally Posted by brosiusbuddy
But did they win the WS because they didn't have a good LF? No-they won it because they had good players at lots of other positions.
"My point is you can't compare things with statistics." -Joe Morgan
"I've always felt that starting pitching is the most important part of the rotation." -Joe Morgan
Kevin: New York Squeaks
And in no way was he a regular, he was half a platoon
Melky would be lucky to hit anywhere near 15, he has never been projected as a power hitter. He doesn't drive the ball, he slaps at it...
Calmer than you are.
maybe none of you care, but wilson's career OPS against lefties is .971. this year: 1.000. against righties, he's still superior to melky cabrera on either side of the plate: a .759 OPS this year, in his career .802.
he's a former backup catcher, maybe the yankees could do with him what the astros did with eric munson on occasion. since andy phillips is hitting .194 .231 .489 versus lefties, it would be a good idea to have wilson in the lineup. burnitz is crap, yeah, but he could be a decent pinch-hitter against right-handers, and he's not as awful as he has been thus far with pittsburgh.
melky cabrera is the same mediocre hitter from both sides of the plate, a .750 OPS guy tops. his career minor league stats are .285 .339 .748...odds are he's not going to do much better than that. even if this is a temporary fix, cabrera can easily be replaced next season from within or free agency
if he doesn't want to trade cabrera, it would at least be a good idea for cashman to explore getting craig wilson
Craig Wilson can't field to save his life. Melky can hit and field plus he's 21. I'm guessing the only way to get Wilson would be to take Burnitz as well. Hopefully his deal is just a rumor and won't be taking place.
Yeah, I agree with the consensus here: that this particular deal isn't worth giving up Melky.
Point is that even with a Dynasty level of talent on the rest of the team, the FO was not satisfied runining a mediocre LFer out there.
Why should they be?
And this is no longer a team with Dynasty level talent, particularly on the pitching side.
Spiker put the rest better than I could.
For those guys no way. If pitching was involved I would be more open to trading Melky but still reluctant.
Dem ol' grimy Jets...
Cashman can't be serious about considering this as a trade? Burnitz!?!?!?!?!?!?
I'm not saying Melky is a big time prospect or talent, but I did expect to see Oliver Perez' name when I clicked on this thread.
Burnitz and/or Craig Wilson?
No thanks.
Jeter, Arod, Giambi, Posada, Cano, Damon, Matsui and Melky....
that is the exact definition of good players at lots of positions. If Melky were to only hit 10-20 hr it wouldnt hurt THAT lineup at all. Great power in the middle, great speed at the top, and good hitters at the bottom.
they could easily win the world series with that lineup if they had the pitching to do so.
plus you act as if melky can't hit at all. you act like he'd be a gaping hole in the lineup, when really he'll probably turn into a very nice hitter with a good obp seeing as how he's already shown good patience and the ability to draw a walk. melky is much better than chad curtis or shane spencer.
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but I heard that this trade was offered to Cashman and rejected last week.
It's a dumb trade, smart move to reject.
the trade really isnt even the topic at hand anymore and its basically turned into a thread about Melky's value.
That deal doesn't work out for us at all. Melky is the guy we need to keep in LF while we need to find someone else to play RF. I like Craig Wilson but I don't want to give up Melky to get him. And Burnitz is just terrible.
“I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.”
He played in 136 games that year. It's still a lot of playing time on a championship team for a non-slugging corner outfielder.
He got 290 AB's, clearly he was inserted into the majority of those games as a pinch runner, defnesive replacement or picnh hitting for Nixon when a lefty came in
Nixon only played in 48 games that year. Kapler was the guy that played in RF the most for that team. He spent 590 innings in RF, Millar spent 425 innings there and Nixon 306 innings.
Besides, there are a number of other examples of non-slugging corner outfielders on championship teams that have already been listed here.
I'm thinking this deal already fell off if it's being talked about in such details. it makes little sense for the Yankees... minor short term boost and major long term penalty.
unless it's jason bay coming over... no.
UST Medical School - Class of 2012
Not that manny 18-19 year old's hit for power in the minors. Melky was very young when he was in AA. Also not every great player showed power while in the minors.
Sorry, I cannot believe this one. Burnitz is trash and Wilson isn't worth it. I cannot believe that Cashman can't see how much Melky has improved over his tour last season. Compared to how Melky stumbled into 2005, 2006 has been more than a triumph.
Defensively, he has been a much needed breath of fresh air. At bat, I don't expect him to perform like Cano because Cano is going to a batting champion in the future. However, Melky has held his own against vets and younger pitchers and strikes me as a remarkably smart hitter for his experience.
No, if Melky is being traded, something of value and promise will be coming back... Of higher value than a Burnitz/Wilson package.
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VIVE LA FRANCE!!!
Cashman obviously CAN see because he rejected the offer.
Thank god. I'd vomit if Burnitz came to the Yanks, and I'd like Wilson, but I'm not keen on giving up cabrera. Do you know if he definately said No, or is that as much of a rumor as the trade itself.
Now that we've clinched, there's only one thing I can say: let's not ................ this up.
Good news that Cashman rejected that deal. Melky's got some nice intangibles that don't translate to the obvious offensive stats. He's a great baserunner, he has nice range in the OF, & has a very strong & accurate arm. Plus, he's got a great personality that really livens up the business like atmosphere of the Yankee dugout. I think that really helps to keep the veterans loose & excited about games when they see that youthful energy that guys like Cano & Melky bring to the table. Unless it's for a bonafide star, I say no deal on any Melky trades.
I agree with the fact that Melky shouldn't be traded, at least not unless its for a very good young talent, but lets not overdo it about him.
He is a fast runner, not a great runner. He hasn't got the experience needed to be a great baserunner. Very few rookies enter the league as great baserunners. Awareness, the ability to read the ball of the bat, and the knowledge of the fielders' strengths and weaknesses among other things are all traits of a great baserunner, but they develop with experience.
He has a strong arm. He doesnt rally have an accurate arm. He has made some accurate throws and gotten 8 assists, but by no means has he made them consistently enough. There have been occasions where he's missed cutoff men and its allowed baserunners to advance.
With that said, becoming a great baserunner and developing arm accuracy do come over time and Melky seems to be the type of player who could easily develop these traits.
I like Melky very much & hope the Yankees hold onto him. It's always fun to see a young player develop, & he seems to have a lot of potential and can handle the big stage very nicely.
Maybe this trade rumor was floated by Theo's syncophants in the media...sounds like a Sawx wet dream.
This trade will never happen.
That deal has about as much chance of happening as the Royals have a chance of winning the AL Central.
The Tigers, White Sox, Twins and Indians could all get on the wrong plane, fly over seas by mistake, get lost, and be stuck there for the rest of the season causing them to forfeit their seasons thus resulting in KC as the central divison champs. The chances are about 1 in a gaziliion, but the chance exists nonetheless.
Seeing as how Cashman declined this trade offer last week, no chance exists.
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...=185000&spln=1
The New York Daily News reports that the Yankees turned down an offer to send Melky Cabrera and "a prospect" to the Pirates for Craig Wilson, Jeromy Burnitz and Salomon Torres.
on the subject of Melky's power (or apparent lack thereof)...lets not forget that when bernie first came up many people questioned whether or not he would ever hit for power...it wasnt until '96 that he hit more than 20 homers
in melky's case, he is surrounded by so many other power hitters that the team can afford to let him develop...I'd rather have a guy that doesnt show power early on but has a good approach to hitting than a guy who comes up and hits homers, but strikes out a lot and has a low average
"Everything looks nicer when you win. The girls are prettier. The cigars taste better. The trees are greener." - Billy Martin
In my opinion, I dont even care if he hits for power. He hits for solid contact, and does all the little things exceptional. In 5 years this kid will be a star, period. If the yanks trade him, it would be a travesty.
right on
he's only 21, they love his plate approach, and the power will come
Sorry, have to disagree with you there. Melky's shown me some good instincts running the bases. The game vs. Boston where he scored from 1B on the play where he ran home when he saw Veritek was out of position & not covering home plate comes right to mind. There's been plenty other occasions where he seems to have gotten a good read on balls that are hit & is able to score where some other runners on this team may not have been able to score on, & he's always looking to stretch a single into a double, & a double into a triple, at every opportunity. That takes instincts & hustle, 2 intangible qualities that are hard to teach. You either have it or you don't. Melky has it IMO, & I believe he's going to make many more good plays running the bases for this franchise if given the chance to mature & grow in the pinstripes.
& I don't see how you say he doesn't have an accurate arm when he's thrown guys out at the plate on several occasions this year, today's throw on a fly to Jorge's glove not withstanding. Does he airmail balls sometimes? Sure, but the balls gets to Jorge's glove in a position to make the tag on the guy coming home. He also threw out Texeira on that collission play at the plate w/Jorge too if I recall correctly on a 1 hopper right to Jorge's glove. How much more accurate do you expect his arm to get?
as you have the right to disagree i have the right to say you're wrong. he still has a long way to go to become a great baserunner. a single incident where he scored because no one was guarding the plate does not merit him to be a great baserunner. he has the speed but the other things i mentioned in the post to which you're responding are all part of being a great baserunner and those take a little time to acquire.
same with the arm. i mean, you said it yourself, he airmails the ball sometimes. you cant hit your target only sometimes and be accurate. if an archer hits the bullseye a few times but hits the outside of the target a lot too, is he accurate? to be labeled accurate you have to be consistent, but melky is not... YET. you'll notice that sometimes when fielding a fly he doesn't set himself up as best he can to make an accurate throw and at other times he improperly gauges the distance he's throwing the ball so it might not be far enough and take an inbetween hop and other times it'll go sailing.
he has the tools to become a good baserunner and have an accurate arm but i wouldnt label him as fully possessing either trait just yet
maybe they thought salomon was related to joe? that's the only rational reason i could come up with for the bucs offering him to us.....
That, and he has two more years left on his contract. Littefield must think that Cash is as stupid as he is.
Nothing to say
anyone who offered burnitz $7 mil HAS to be missing a few chromosomes
This actually seems like a fair deal its will kind of be a wash for pittsburg because Melky will not discover his power for a while but they are getting rid of salary. While the yanks are getting a quailty player and an above average fill in until sheffield comes back
if the yankees have to absorb salary, i prefer they do it for a player who will actually contribute to the team (i.e. abreu) rather than someone like burnitz, who would undoubtedly just become a wasted roster spot
Yes Abreu would be a better contributer but he would also cost about 12.5 million more this season plus burnitz can still hit for power probably on the same level as Abreu has this season.
If we're going to have an older player in the deal, make it Roberrto Hernandez. He could help the bullpen.
Besides, why would the Yankee need both Wilson AND Burnitz? Do they think they need 2OFs? If so, then let's talk to Washington about Soriano and Guillen or the Phillies about Abreu aand Burrell.
I hope this is just BS from the press trying to stir interest by writing a Yankees story.
The trade makes no sense -- we know Cash is smarter than this. PLEEEEASE tell me it's not true.
Wilson isn't junk, but Burnitz is.
He may not be a prime part of it, but he's a godo complementary player. That is to say, he is not a Bernie in his prime, but he is more like a Chad Curtis: a good, not great, additional part for a contender, competent, adequate, never a star.
Meaning that if my math is correct, Wilson has an OPS of .832, which isn't bad, and Burnitz has an OPS of .696, which is.
Proctor?
Guillen has a good RF arm. He hasn't been hitting, but there are indications that RFK has gotten in his head and a change of scenery might liven up his bat.
The Yankees have added troublesome personalities bnefore, and the leadership cadre has managed to keep them in check and help them blend into the Yankees' environment.
I would love to have Sori back in Pinstripes, but I'm afraid it will take Hughes. If we could do it for Melky, a pitcher like Clippard or DeSalvo, a Beam or Smith, and maybe a throw-in of some sort, I'd have to think about making the deal. Put in a little more (Eric Duncan?) and see if the Nats would send up Armas or Hernandez (or maybe Ramon Ortiz.)Of course, the Washington outfielder the Yanks would love to have is Alfonso Soriano, and they’ll continue to monitor his availability, but the Angels seem to have the inside track on trading for the ex-Bomber. If Anaheim backs off, then the Yanks would try to make it happen, though it will be tough to protect their top prospects unless the Nats aren’t able to find anyone who meets their demands. ¶ [/size][/font]
Burnitz is garbage. Getting Roberto Hernandez would be a more effective use of resources.The Yanks have had dialogue with the Pirates about Craig Wilson and/or Jeromy Burnitz, but weren’t interested in dealing Melky Cabrera for both players when the subject came up recently. ¶ [/size][/font]
A real balancing act.Cashman wouldn’t comment on any specific deals but has said he’s determined to find a deal that will help the team in the present without stripping any of its key pieces for the future. "It’s a tough tightrope to walk but it’s the one I’m walking," he said. ¶ [/size][/font]
I wonder what it would take to get Javy back. The White Sox want bullpen help. Farnsworth and Chacon? Deal for Hernandez and Wickman, let Kyle and Shawn move to Chi-town, protect the bullpen, upgrade the rotation, and it may not take prime prospects.The market for pitchers appears to be thin as far as the Bombers are concerned; although the White Sox are dangling Freddy Garcia and Javier Vazquez, the Yanks don’t figure to have the chips to pull of a blockbuster deal for a pitcher. Jon Lieber could be a possibility if the Phillies’ have a fire sale, but he’s struggled this season and might not be much of an upgrade at this point anyway. ¶ [/size][/font]
Hopefully it works out. Sir Sidney has been effective in the past with Moose as his mentor; let's see if he has anything left.As much as anything else, that’s why the Yanks picked up Sidney Ponson. If they get lucky with the former 17-game winner, then they can focus all of their attention on adding a bat. ¶ [/size][/font]
I'm sure that Jeromy's .692 OPS will inspire shivers amongst the Beantowners.
So long as he was one of the overpriced guys from Steve Phillips' selling Fred Wilpon an overpriced pile of junk, I'll definitely pass. $6m for that? Must be tough getting good help these days.
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