Melky bidding adieu?? Rumored deal to Pittsburgh

[Quangormo]

Here's another rumor just reported on the fan:

Livan, Robert Fick and Jose Guillen

For:

Beam, Smith, Cabrera

That's better than the Pittsburgh deal, although I would rather include Beam OR Smith, not both. (The Nats do need bullpen help, however, having just sent it all to Cincinnati.) If they want both, they can send Stanton back to us or include Rauch (the latter of which they won't do.)

I'd really prefer not to give up either, but you have to give somethign to get something. Smith is a rookie at 27 who has been effective in a short stint with the Yankees, but it's a very small sample. Making his first ML appearances at 27, he's a late bloomer even for a pitcher, and pitchers tend to arrive a little later than hitters. Matt Smith's primary virtue is that he's lefthanded and under 30.

Fick is a solid lefty pinch-hitter who could be useful off the bench, and he plays 1B, DH, a little OF, and emergency catcher, although he currently serves as Washington's #2 catcher right now, so if the Yankees wanted to get him (and I am not opposed to that), they'd probably have to throw in someone like Koyie Hill or Wil Nieves so the Nationals would have a real backup catcher. Otherwise, their only backup is Matt LeCroy, and believe me, you'd rather have Fick behind the plate.

Livan seems to be the kind of guy who thrives in a pennant race but slumps when his team is out of it. Maybe Pinstripes would do him good. He certainly isn't any more of a gamble than Sir Sidney. And he's an innings eater, which reduces stress on the bullpen.

[TheMelkMan]

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...=185000&spln=1

The New York Daily News reports that the Yankees turned down an offer to send Melky Cabrera and "a prospect" to the Pirates for Craig Wilson, Jeromy Burnitz and Salomon Torres.

Jeromy Burnitz=

How stupid does Pittsburgh think Cashman is? Personally, I think all the other GM's are trying to wait it out, condfident they can circle enough rumors that they can get Steinbrenner to step in and demand one of those outrageous trades to be made. Craig Wilson isn't worth Melky alone, especially, not with the deadweight contracts of Burnitz and Torres.

Thank god Cashman refused this deal! If Pittsburgh is looking to fleece someone, I highly suggest the folks in Cincinatti, I hear they're real suckers. Even Bowden ripped them off. Or, go for good old KC.

[Quangormo]

I doubt it. Now if the trade looks something like this:

Pittsburgh gets:
OF Melky Cabrera
Mid-level pitching prospect

New York gets:
1B/OF Craig Wilson
OF Jeromy Burnitz
LHP Oliver Perez

Now you're talking.

It would be even better if they replaced Burnitz with Roberto Hernandez.

And I don't think that Pittsburgh is likely to part with Oliver Perez. Maholm, maybe, but not Perez or Snell.

[Quangormo]

ummmm.... no thanks pittsburg, u can keep burnitz and wilson.

I wouldn't mind Wilson for the right price. Melky is too much. Now, if we could get him for KT and maybe a mid-level minor-league pitcher (DeSalvo?), I'd do it.

[Quangormo]

I wouldn't consider Melky untouchable, but I'd be very picky about what deal I got for him.

[Hitman23]

oh no.

[Quangormo]

Similar stats? I guess we can jsut ignore the 110 point lead Wilson has in SLG%
Is Juan Rivera all that good? I'd take him, but he's not the kind of guy who should be untradeable, and neither is Melky

Exactly, but only in the right deal. You don't just trade him. You hold him and use him until the right deal comes along.

I'd take Rivera back, but he's no star, just a solid player. And if the Yankees trade Melky, we'll be working on ways to get him back in five to seven years.

[seppy]

This is not going to happen. Trading for a 37-year-old outfielder who is about to become a free agent is exactly the opposite of what Cashman said he is trying to do.

[wileedog]

Trading for a 37-year-old outfielder who is about to become a free agent is exactly the opposite of what Cashman said he is trying to do.

True, but in fairness Cashman said that before his two starting corner Ofers went down to injury.

However I have trouble believing we'll move Melky just for a stopgap.

[shotgun pete]

I honestly doubt cashman could pull a fick,livan,guillen for beam,smith,cabrera deal the yanks would also have to throw in wang or tabata three starters for three decent prospects will not cut it IMO.

[Allan]

Exactly, but only in the right deal. You don't just trade him. You hold him and use him until the right deal comes along.

I'd take Rivera back, but he's no star, just a solid player. And if the Yankees trade Melky, we'll be working on ways to get him back in five to seven years.

Are you suggesting that the NYY are looking for ways to get Juan Rivera back? I wasn't aware.

[mrmike98]

The Yankees have been scouting Kris Benson. I'd pursue him providing Angelos doesn't ask for the world (Hughes) or chooses to avoid dealing with George.

[metalboy15]

after reading some of the posts here in this thread i gotta say that some of you guys are obssesed with a player´s power, we don´t need HR hitters at every position, look how we won Saturday, playing small ball, (i hate to bring this up but) look at the Red Sox, they only have 2 HR hitters and the last time i checked they were doing well, again, look at the Cardinals, they only have 1 maybe 2 (with Scott Rolen) HR´s hitters.

bottom line is we dont need ALL-STARS HR hitters at every position, once Matsui returns we´ll have 3 HR hitters in our lineup, games are won with pitching and defense.

keep Melky!!!

[Quangormo]

The Tigers, White Sox, Twins and Indians could all get on the wrong plane, fly over seas by mistake, get lost, and be stuck there for the rest of the season causing them to forfeit their seasons

And KC would still lose to them!

[goin for 27]

Hopefully it works out. Sir Sidney has been effective in the past with Moose as his mentor; let's see if he has anything left.

Moose as his mentor? Where did this come from? I definitely don't see Moose cozying up to a guy like Ponson....

Also, when does a guy going on his 9th season need a mentor?

He needs to stay out of bars, out of jail, etc....

[Quangormo]

I honestly doubt cashman could pull a fick,livan,guillen for beam,smith,cabrera deal the yanks would also have to throw in wang or tabata three starters for three decent prospects will not cut it IMO.

Fick is not a starter; he's a bench player for the Nats. Washington needs bullpen guys after the trade with the Reds.

[ryanm1058123]

after reading some of the posts here in this thread i gotta say that some of you guys are obssesed with a player´s power, we don´t need HR hitters at every position, look how we won Saturday, playing small ball, (i hate to bring this up but) look at the Red Sox, they only have 2 HR hitters and the last time i checked they were doing well, again, look at the Cardinals, they only have 1 maybe 2 (with Scott Rolen) HR´s hitters.

bottom line is we dont need ALL-STARS HR hitters at every position, once Matsui returns we´ll have 3 HR hitters in our lineup, games are won with pitching and defense.

keep Melky!!!

you do not need HRs at every position. You need XBHs at every position. doubles. triples. stuff like that. you can't get single after single with this team because of the soft bottom of the lineup which is why you need lots of XBHs. I don't neccessarily want Melky to hit a ton of HRs.. but I do want him to slug into the .400s

[Quangormo]

Are you suggesting that the NYY are looking for ways to get Juan Rivera back? I wasn't aware.

Somebody floated Rivera's name in this thread, as a comparison to Melky. I haven't heard anythign saying that we're trying to get Rivera back, although it wouldn't be bad to do so. But what I was saying was that since I'd happily take Rivera back in teh right deal, it would take only a special deal to mvoe the new Rivera -- namely, Melky.

[yanksphan]

Salomon Torres=

How stupid does Pittsburgh think Cashman is?

Says the guy laughing at arguably the most needed player in the trade...

Torres ERA+ as a reliever:

2002 - 160
2003 - starter
2004 - 157
2005 - 155

I'd take those numbers and this contract:

07:$2.6M, 08:$3.2M, 09:$3.75M club option ($0.3M buyout)

over most of our bullpen.

I'm not for the trade, but the dig on Torres is misguided.

[Quangormo]

The Yankees have been scouting Kris Benson. I'd pursue him providing Angelos doesn't ask for the world (Hughes) or chooses to avoid dealing with George.

Benson could help. He's a good third starter who has been forced into the ace role with a bad team. And all I would give Bawlmore is the price that a third starter fetches.

What do you think would be a godo price for Benson? Would you give up Wright for him? It would reunite Wright with his guru, Leo Mazzone. Do they want Reese or Thompson? Maybe Nick Green? They may trade Tejada, so unless they get a SS they're probably going with Eddie Rogers. So they might wnat an OF or a SS, plus a pitcher.

Do we incllude someone like Chacon or Small?

[ppa79]

Says the guy laughing at arguably the most needed player in the trade...

Torres ERA+ as a reliever:

2002 - 160
2003 - starter
2004 - 157
2005 - 155

I'm not for the trade, but the dig on Torres is misguided.

Wow! I would of never thought Torres had numbers like those.

[penfold]

He may not be a prime part of it, but he's a godo complementary player. That is to say, he is not a Bernie in his prime, but he is more like a Chad Curtis: a good, not great, additional part for a contender, competent, adequate, never a star.

I like this comparison.

[metalboy15]

you do not need HRs at every position. You need XBHs at every position. doubles. triples. stuff like that. you can't get single after single with this team because of the soft bottom of the lineup which is why you need lots of XBHs. I don't neccessarily want Melky to hit a ton of HRs.. but I do want him to slug into the .400s

well for comparison: XB%

Derek Jeter: 26%
Robinson Canó: 25%
Melky Cabrera: 24%

it´s not like he´s not getting extra base hits...

[cordell]

Keep Melky. He'll only get better.Yankees need to have 50% home grown talent.

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

well for comparison: XB%

Derek Jeter: 26%
Robinson Canó: 25%
Melky Cabrera: 24%

it´s not like he´s not getting extra base hits...

SLG %:
Jeter: .475
Cano: .439
Melky: .377

EDIT: Also take in account the fact that Melky is a corner outfielder, and Jeter and Cano are infielders, for a corner outfielder, Melky is slugging well below the league average...

[wileedog]

SLG %:
Jeter: .475
Cano: .439
Melky: .377

Plus that's a SS and a 2Bmen you're talking about, not a corner OFer.

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

Plus that's a SS and a 2Bmen you're talking about, not a corner OFer.

See my late EDIT...

[ryanm1058123]

I do not want to trade Melky. It is not like he does not have the power, because he does. He needs to lose the baby fat, put some muscle and some power on him, and he will be a servicable corner OF who plays a plus defense which every team is looking for.

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

I do not want to trade Melky. It is not like he does not have the power, because he does. He needs to lose the baby fat, put some muscle and some power on him, and he will be a servicable corner OF who plays a plus defense which every team is looking for.

The thing is, it is like he doesn't have power. His SLG ranks him 19th of the 20 LFers in the league for those who qualify.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/...&hand=a&pos=lf

Yes, its possible for him to gain muscle and have more power ect ect...Although he has never really shown much power in his minor league career, but again he could gain some. The question becomes can the Yankees afford to have one of the worst offensive leftfielders, while being in a close race for the division and the Wild Card. I think not...

[ppa79]

This is how I would currently rate Melky and his potential:

ability to hit for average = above average
ability to hit for power = below to average
plate discipline = above average
speed = above average
defense = average to above average
arm = above average
basestealing = average

He has already shown the above average arm and plate discipline. All the Yankee scouts say he should be able to hit for high average. Defensively I think he can be average to above average, he doesn't always take the best routes to ball, but has the speed to make up for it and he might get better with more experience. For basestealing, I put average, he has the speed, but probably not the instincts. He has never shown the ability to steal bases in the minors. I think his peak is having the power of an average ML corner outfielder. But overall as a player, he has more things going for him than not. I think as his career progress, his only flaw will be power, but if he does everything else above average, he'll be a very good player.

[Maynerd]

Well now, we've compared Melky to Bernie Williams, Paul O'Neal, Chad Curtis, and Derek jeter. It's tough to tell exactly what we've got when he's so young, and when he seems to be improving every single day.

Allow me to introduce another comparison: Roy White.

Roy was a corner outfielder. He didn't hit for a lot of power. But in his 15 year career in pinstripes, he was a two-time All Star, and made the league's top ten in batting (once), OBP (4 times), OPS (twice), and led the league once in runs scored.

Can Melky put up comparable numbers? I think he can exceed Roy's numbers, though it's too early to tell for sure. As a Yankee fan, I enjoyed having Roy White on this team as a long-time reliable contributor. I'd much rather keep Melky than send him off for somebody else's aging junk. Roy White is hardly a Hall of Famer. But he was a better-than-decent ballplayer (and a class act) for a long time. If Melky can meet or exceed White's results, I'd be willing to keep him in a corner outfield position for as long as Roy did.

Pass. And I'll continue to pass unless the offer has some significant value.

[SINCE77 2]

Well now, we've compared Melky to Bernie Williams, Paul O'Neal, Chad Curtis, and Derek jeter. It's tough to tell exactly what we've got when he's so young, and when he seems to be improving every single day.

Allow me to introduce another comparison: Roy White.

Roy was a corner outfielder. He didn't hit for a lot of power. But in his 15 year career in pinstripes, he was a two-time All Star, and made the league's top ten in batting (once), OBP (4 times), OPS (twice), and led the league once in runs scored.

Can Melky put up comparable numbers? I think he can exceed Roy's numbers, though it's too early to tell for sure. As a Yankee fan, I enjoyed having Roy White on this team as a long-time reliable contributor. I'd much rather keep Melky than send him off for somebody else's aging junk. Roy White is hardly a Hall of Famer. But he was a better-than-decent ballplayer (and a class act) for a long time. If Melky can meet or exceed White's results, I'd be willing to keep him in a corner outfield position for as long as Roy did.

Pass. And I'll continue to pass unless the offer has some significant value.

Roy and Willie were my favorite Yankees of the seventies.. I completely agree with you.

[jughead]

The thing is, it is like he doesn't have power. His SLG ranks him 19th of the 20 LFers in the league for those who qualify.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/...&hand=a&pos=lf

Yes, its possible for him to gain muscle and have more power ect ect...Although he has never really shown much power in his minor league career, but again he could gain some. The question becomes can the Yankees afford to have one of the worst offensive leftfielders, while being in a close race for the division and the Wild Card. I think not...

Minor League Careers

AVG
Player A: .283
Melky Cabrera: .285

OBP
Player A: .345
Melky Cabrera: .340

SLG
Player A: .418
Melky Cabrera: .409

AB/HR
Player A: 46
Melky Cabrera: 57

XBH%
Player A: 29.4
Melky Cabrera: 28.1

Player A? A guy by the name of Paul O'Neill

I wouldn't write off Melky's power just yet. He's only 21.

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

Minor League Careers

AVG
Player A: .283
Melky Cabrera: .285

AVG
Player A: .345
Melky Cabrera: .340

SLG
Player A: .418
Melky Cabrera: .409

AB/HR
Player A: 46
Melky Cabrera: 57

XBH%
Player A: 29.4
Melky Cabrera: 28.1

Player A? A guy by the name of Paul O'Neill

I wouldn't write off Melky's power just yet. He's only 21.

Wasnt Paulie's swing changed once he made the Red's though? And you have AVG twice, do you mean OBP for the second one?

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

Minor League Careers

AVG
Player A: .283
Melky Cabrera: .285

AVG
Player A: .345
Melky Cabrera: .340

SLG
Player A: .418
Melky Cabrera: .409

AB/HR
Player A: 46
Melky Cabrera: 57

XBH%
Player A: 29.4
Melky Cabrera: 28.1

Player A? A guy by the name of Paul O'Neill

I wouldn't write off Melky's power just yet. He's only 21.

Which only further proves my point. O'Neil really wasn't consistently good until he came to the Yankees when he was 31. Although, he first started showing some power when he was 24. If you really want to make the comparison (which I think is stupid in general because each person/player is unique), The Yankees can't wait 3 years for Melky to develop his power. We couldn''t afford playing O'Neil when he was 21 and we can't afford Melky either...

[Allan]

Which only further proves my point. O'Neil really wasn't consistently good until he came to the Yankees when he was 31. Although, he first started showing some power when he was 24. If you really want to make the comparison (which I think is stupid in general because each person/player is unique), The Yankees can't wait 3 years for Melky to develop his power. We couldn''t afford playing O'Neil when he was 21 and we can't afford Melky either...

Delayed gratification does not appear to be part of the NYY vision.

[jughead]

Which only further proves my point. O'Neil really wasn't consistently good until he came to the Yankees when he was 31. Although, he first started showing some power when he was 24. If you really want to make the comparison (which I think is stupid in general because each person/player is unique), The Yankees can't wait 3 years for Melky to develop his power. We couldn''t afford playing O'Neil when he was 21 and we can't afford Melky either...

O'Neill wasn't even in the majors at Melky's age. Melky is far ahead of him, Paul didn't get regular playing time until he was 25.

Personally, I don't trade 21 year olds who are more than holding their own in the majors. I think writing them off at that age is a huge, huge mistake. Heck, he's 8 years away from his prime!

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

O'Neill wasn't even in the majors at Melky's age. Melky is far ahead of him, Paul didn't get regular playing time until he was 25.

Personally, I don't trade 21 year olds who are more than holding their own in the majors. I think writing them off at that age is a huge, huge mistake. Heck, he's 8 years away from his prime!

The problem is that his swing doesnt show any signs of hitting for power. He doesnt really use his lower body to drive the ball, he slaps at it. Changing that might give him more power but it will make his average go down as well.

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

O'Neill wasn't even in the majors at Melky's age. Melky is far ahead of him, Paul didn't get regular playing time until he was 25.

Personally, I don't trade 21 year olds who are more than holding their own in the majors. I think writing them off at that age is a huge, huge mistake. Heck, he's 8 years away from his prime!

The thing is he is not "holding his own" in the majors, it only looks that way because our lineup is still so good even with our injuries. Melky's OPS is 17th out of 21 of leftfielders who qualify (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/...&hand=a&pos=lf)

Again, I am not writing him off or his ability. Just stating he needs a lot of improvement offensively if he wants to stay a corner outfielder in MLB...

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

The thing is he is not "holding his own" in the majors, it only looks that way because our lineup is still so good even with our injuries. Melky's OPS is 17th out of 21 of leftfielders who qualify (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/...&hand=a&pos=lf)

Again, I am not writing him off or his ability. Just stating he needs a lot of improvement offensively if he wants to stay a corner outfielder in MLB...

Just out of curiousity, where would he rank for CF? That was what he played in the minors.

[Allan]

O'Neill wasn't even in the majors at Melky's age. Melky is far ahead of him, Paul didn't get regular playing time until he was 25.

Personally, I don't trade 21 year olds who are more than holding their own in the majors. I think writing them off at that age is a huge, huge mistake. Heck, he's 8 years away from his prime!

Do you think Melky would be getting regular playing time under normal circumstances?

Sure, let's be careful with the young guys but let's not make them seem bigger than they are. That will lead to disappointment

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

Just out of curiousity, where would he rank for CF? That was what he played in the minors.

He's not projected to be a CFer but right now 15th...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/...n=17&ageMax=51

[jughead]

Do you think Melky would be getting regular playing time under normal circumstances?

Sure, let's be careful with the young guys but let's not make them seem bigger than they are. That will lead to disappointment

You're right, let's go out and trade them all for proven vets with a bellyful of guts like Jeromy Burnitz

That 37 year old .600 OPS with horrendous defense sure would be droolworthy in LF, for now AND the future!

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

You're right, let's go out and trade them all for proven vets with a bellyful of guts like Jeromy Burnitz

That 37 year old .600 OPS with horrendous defense sure would be droolworthy in LF, for now AND the future!

No one is advocating trading Melky for Burnitz...

[jughead]

The thing is he is not "holding his own" in the majors, it only looks that way because our lineup is still so good even with our injuries. Melky's OPS is 17th out of 21 of leftfielders who qualify (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/...&hand=a&pos=lf)

Again, I am not writing him off or his ability. Just stating he needs a lot of improvement offensively if he wants to stay a corner outfielder in MLB...

Yeah, because comparing Melky to Hall of Famers like Manny sure is a fair way of judging him.

How about comparing the MLB stats of the players on that list when they were 21 to Melky's?

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

You're right, let's go out and trade them all for proven vets with a bellyful of guts like Jeromy Burnitz

That 37 year old .600 OPS with horrendous defense sure would be droolworthy in LF, for now AND the future!

Where the ................ did anybody say to do that? Stop making crap up.

[Allan]

You're right, let's go out and trade them all for proven vets with a bellyful of guts like Jeromy Burnitz

That 37 year old .600 OPS with horrendous defense sure would be droolworthy in LF, for now AND the future!

Wow, where did that come from? I can't speak for others but I can assure you that never have I advocated doing what you just said. My point was to temper a little of the expectations. Even he who is often referred to as Clueless has said that to expect too much from a rookie is not fair to him. Let Melky be Melky and not somebody who can never live up to the wild expectations some have for him.

[jughead]

Where the ................ did anybody say to do that? Stop making crap up.

I didn't mean to insinuate he said that, but at the same time I never said I expected Melky to become a Hall of Famer. I'm just tired of the notion that a veteran is automatically better than a rookie just because he's played more.

[NYDCYankee]

Let's talk about how Melky Cabrera is playing better than that guy Coco Crisp who was supposed to be better than Johnny Damon.

Coco: AVG .264 | HR 4 | RBI 15 | OBP .322

Melky: AVG .278 | HR 3 | RBI 29 | OBP .360

[stephsamps]

No one is advocating trading Melky for Burnitz...

No, thank god. Javy is just happy on his get rid of Melky bandwagon. BTW, they had a stat on the board at the stadium yesterday that Melky was batting .355 in July. Keep complaining about him Javy, it only seems to make him better!