O/U on the NL adopting the DH...

[Astorian]

2 years...

5 years...

8 years...

Longer?

The NL has shown that it can't F with the AL on a competitive level for many years now; the best that their "champion" can hope for is to have the two ALCS combatants smack the tar out of each other and then flip a coin...

Yes, it's quite admirable that pichers batted in the 1880's and that the National League still chooses to play that way, but times (and sports) change...

Has the former national pastime passed the senior circuit by?

[27IsNext]

Until they adopt the DH, we will continue to own them in interleague play and will win more all-star games than we lose. If they ever adopt the DH (they won't), it will make the pitchers tougher, which will in turn better the hitters by making them adjust.

It's long past time for them to stop living in the '60s and adopt the DH.

[VanHalen5150]

I don't think the NL will ever adopt the DH. Baseball, in it's purest form, is a NL day game in an outdoor stadium. That's what baseball was meant to be.

[lpiniellafan]

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if the National League ever adopts the designated hitter. In fact, I'd actually like to see the AL teams use the DH in the All Star and World Series games, while NL teams would have to let pitchers bat -- regardless of whether the games are being played in American League or National League cities.

For those people who think that puts the NL at too much of a disadvantage, I say tough. Let the NL suffer. They're the ones pulling all that smug poop, claiming that the lack of a DH gives them some sort of superiority. Let the "senior circuit" continue to get smacked around. I personally find it rather entertaining.

[stupidpunchline]

NL owners will never adopt the DH because they'd have to pay another premium hitter eight figures per year to contend.

[BigCheese]

The NL will never adopt the DH. The pride the purists get from not having the DH exceeds the desire to equalize the NL and AL. Personally, I'd like to get rid of it (I like the strategy that emerges as a result, as well as the need for a deeper bench)

If the league was really interested in parity, they'd adopt a salary cap structure, but let's not go down that alley here.

[Astorian]

NL owners will never adopt the DH because they'd have to pay another premium hitter eight figures per year to contend.

But they'll shamelessly sit back and allow that premium hitter to become a DH on a contending team in a league that their team of dumpster divers will have to face if they happen to beat the other dumpster divers in their league (laughing all the way to the bank with a fat "luxury tax" check, of course...)

This does not help baseball....

(BTW, I'm not picking on you, stupidpunchline - I'm just trying to say, it's one game there should be one set of rules between the lines)

[Astorian]

The NL will never adopt the DH. The pride the purists get from not having the DH exceeds the desire to equalize the NL and AL. Personally, I'd like to get rid of it (I like the strategy that emerges as a result, as well as the need for a deeper bench)

Yes, but the NL has had the the strategy that emerges from the need of a deeper bench, and it hasn't worked out so well for them over the last decade and it doesn't necessarily make for better baseball, either...

Maybe the "pure" form of baseball is just the game's equivalent of football played with leather helmets and straight-on kickers...

[Jerkface]

The National League will have a designated blurn before they get a designated hitter.

[SODM]

It's the only league in the baseball world that doesn't use a DH.
It's kind of their cultural identity. I don't think they'll ever change it.

[JDPNYY]

I don't think the NL will ever adopt the DH. Baseball, in it's purest form, is a NL day game in an outdoor stadium. That's what baseball was meant to be.

I especially like it when the players ride all night in trains to get to the away games and when the catchers don't wear any protective gear and the fielders don't wear mitts on their non throwing hands. Pure is best.

[Nome]

I don't think the NL will ever adopt the DH. Baseball, in it's purest form, is a NL day game in an outdoor stadium. That's what baseball was meant to be.

First of all the NL doesn't play any more day games than does the AL. Second, the AL doesn't hold a monopoly on Domed Stadiums. They will be the norm for the future and the NL will adopt them also. Domed Stadiums are almost a necessity in cities having extreme climate conditions. And finally I don't look at the "Junior Circuit" as being "less pure than the "Senior Circuit". In fact the terms Junior and Senior circuits are passe and should be retired.

The AL consists of more progressive owners who are unafraid of change and understand the game better than do the NL owners.

Andy

[effdamets]

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if the National League ever adopts the designated hitter. In fact, I'd actually like to see the AL teams use the DH in the All Star and World Series games, while NL teams would have to let pitchers bat -- regardless of whether the games are being played in American League or National League cities.

For those people who think that puts the NL at too much of a disadvantage, I say tough. Let the NL suffer. They're the ones pulling all that smug poop, claiming that the lack of a DH gives them some sort of superiority. Let the "senior circuit" continue to get smacked around. I personally find it rather entertaining.

An absolute AMEN to this!!!!

[BRNXBMRS]

I hope the NL doesnt get the DH, I would like for the AL to lose the DH. In this recent past the AL has dominated but, the NL was a force in the All Star game from 1962-1982. Its a cycle.

[ojo]

the DH blows. with it went accountability, both in terms of pitchers without fear of retaliation (with their OWN skin on the line) and in terms of the DH blasting gawdy #s without having to earn their stripes on the field. the NL game is just prettier to watch. far more strategy and balance.

[Yanknut023]

I hope the NL doesnt get the DH, I would like for the AL to lose the DH. In this recent past the AL has dominated but, the NL was a force in the All Star game from 1962-1982. Its a cycle.

True it is a cycle like everything else, but the NL won 12 WS druing those years. So they were not that dominating despite doing well in the AS game.

Lets not forget the AS is still an exhibition game.

Back on point:

I do not think the NL will adopt the DH. The reason which was mentioned earlier is because of money. The owners do not care which league is better, all they care about is not having to pay for an extra hitter on each team in the NL.

[VerMonsteR]

the DH blows. with it went accountability, both in terms of pitchers without fear of retaliation (with their OWN skin on the line) and in terms of the DH blasting gawdy #s without having to earn their stripes on the field. the NL game is just prettier to watch. far more strategy and balance.

I understand the point...but disagree. All I can do is YAWN when I see some of the best hitters in baseball get pitched around or intentionally passed for the priviledge of watching a pitcher square around awkwardly in a desperate bunt attempt.

Yeah...NL rules are more traditional, but a HELL of a lot less exciting to watch.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

Until they adopt the DH, we will continue to own them in interleague play and will win more all-star games than we lose.

Wow, take about not knowing any history.

[DandyAndy46]

I'll take the under on NEVER

[rajah]

NL owners will never adopt the DH becaus e they'd have to pay another premium hitter eight figures per year to contend.

And that is exactly why the MLBPA wants the DH. It is a topic for collective bargaining. And the old NL owner-purists like the O'Malley's are all gone now. It is just a matter of money and negotiation.

Based on a talk I heard Rob Manfred and Don Fehr give a few years ago, I think that the players want it more and that the NL will at some point adopt it, probably during a collective bargaining session that is not too bogged down in more important issues, if that ever happens.

[BigCheese]

Yes, but the NL has had the the strategy that emerges from the need of a deeper bench, and it hasn't worked out so well for them over the last decade and it doesn't necessarily make for better baseball, either...

Maybe the "pure" form of baseball is just the game's equivalent of football played with leather helmets and straight-on kickers...

"Better baseball" does not necessarily mean "who would win in a showdown between two teams." "Better baseball" is whatever you think makes the game more interesting. And I think it's more interesting without a DH. The managers play a much more important role, instead of just working a bullpen. As mentioned before, it also makes retaliation much more relevant.

I think if the NL teams just spent their money smarter (or, admittedly, maybe more of it), they'd be pretty much on par with the AL, maybe only a slight disadvantage at most.

Also, there's a HUGE difference between altering a fundamental rule of the game and using the best equipment available.

[Jersey Yankee]

It's the only league in the baseball world that doesn't use a DH.
It's kind of their cultural identity. I don't think they'll ever change it.

Exactly. They've always said that since about 1860 or whenever, the pitcher has always come to bat.

I guess that maintaining their identity is extremely important to them.

[Dannman103]

Until they adopt the DH, we will continue to own them in interleague play and will win more all-star games than we lose. If they ever adopt the DH (they won't), it will make the pitchers tougher, which will in turn better the hitters by making them adjust.

It's long past time for them to stop living in the '60s and adopt the DH.

but we've had the DH in the AL since the 70s, and it hasnt always been the AL who has dominated...these things just go in cycles, and right now, the NL is weaker...but the NL also has won 11 straight allstar games (1972-1982) during the DH era...as for interleague, prior to this season, the NL actually had the overall lead, 1104 to 1095, and had won the season series as recently as 2003...one good year for the american league does not equal a consistent history of dominance

[stupidpunchline]

The National League will have a designated blurn before they get a designated hitter.

Nice!

[Big_E]

#1. People who think that "with (the DL) went accountability, both in terms of pitchers without fear of retaliation (with their OWN skin on the line)...." should know that that line of thinking (and no offense to ojo I've heard it from my ex-boss for a dozen years) is a load of crap.

Walter Johnson hit a record 203 batters. He was hit 13 times
Cy Young hit 163 batters, was plunked 10 times.
Don Drysdale hit 154 batters, and was beaned 5 times. When he hit a career-high 20 batters in 1961, he was not hit in retaliation once all year.

Joe McGinnity hit a record 41 batters in 1900 (considered the beginning of modern baseball) and was not hit once all year as a batter in 148 AB.

When Tom Murphy hit 21 batters in 1969, he was not beaned once all year either.

Kerry Wood hit 21 batters in 2003. How many times was he hit "in retaliation"? You guessed it. Zero. In fact, with 80 hit batsmen entering 2006, Wood was still never hit once by a pitch, in 338 career AB.

So saying that the DH takes away accountability from pitchers being beaned, is a load of crap. (No offense). Pitchers, generally, do not get hit with pitches.

#2...to people who follow the National League and are all "Superior" because they don't have the DH...tell them that in 1928, the first DH rule was proposed -- by John Heydler, president...of the NATIONAL LEAGUE. But it was the AL that voted it down.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/yearly/yr1928n.shtml

[SI Baseballman]

I wanna say that it's cyclical and that the NL will rise from the ashes, but you can never tell. Free agency has changed it a lot over the last 10 years, especially since it's gotten worse than it's ever been with player movement.

NL GM's were retarded and helped the AL (Liriano, Kazmir, Nathan). Then again the NL got Hudson and Mulder and watched them regress.

I think there will be a point where it will start to turn. The NL is developing guys like Wright, Howard, and Utley. The AL doesn't really have that many promising young superstars of that caliber. (Position player wise that is, because they do have good young pitching)

[The Comic Book Guy]

I think there will be a point where it will start to turn. The NL is developing guys like Wright, Howard, and Utley. The AL doesn't really have that many promising young superstars of that caliber. (Position player wise that is, because they do have good young pitching)

Not sure I agree... Joe Mauer, Mark Teixeira, Grady Sizemore, Nick Swisher, Carl Crawford, Jhonny Peralta, Hank Blalock. All pretty darn good, all younger than Howard and Utley (heck, Hafner's only a half year older than Utley [EDIT: That said, Pujols is (allegedly) younger than Utley and Howard too]). Big Tex is having a bad year and Swisher's average has taken a nosedive, but there's plenty of room for improvement.

There's a pretty promising crop of young guys in the AL too

[patrick.o]

Sheesh. One season of interleague dominance and suddenly the NL just can't hang anymore and it's all because of the DH? Yeah, okay.

[patrick.o]

But they'll shamelessly sit back and allow that premium hitter to become a DH ...

Yeah, that happens all the time. There's a long, long list of 'premium hitters' who left the NL to become DHs in the AL. Of the 4 guys who had at least 300 DH ABs last year David Ortiz, Travis Hafner, and Raul Ibanez have never played a game for an NL team. I guess that makes Carl Everett the premium hitter that the woebegotten NL lost out on?

[patrick.o]

All I can do is YAWN when I see some of the best hitters in baseball get pitched around or intentionally passed for the priviledge of watching a pitcher square around awkwardly in a desperate bunt attempt.

Ah yes, another thing that happens with alarming regularity. This usually happens because a lot of the best hitters in the NL bat 8th. No wait, that's not right, it happens because most of the pitchers bat cleanup. No, that's not right either. Maybe it just doesn't actually happen very often? That would make the most sense, because the guy who hits in front of the pitcher is usually the worst hitting regular on the team.

[JeffWeaverFan]

The NL owners would never agree to it. NEVER. They don't want to pay the extra money that the AL teams do for the DH.

[BigCheese]

I've heard the argument that the DH helps to keep pitchers off the DL. Does anybody have any statistic on this (are NL pitchers more likely to get injured than AL pitchers?).

[5OClockLighting]

First of all the NL doesn't play any more day games than does the AL. Second, the AL doesn't hold a monopoly on Domed Stadiums. They will be the norm for the future and the NL will adopt them also. Domed Stadiums are almost a necessity in cities having extreme climate conditions. And finally I don't look at the "Junior Circuit" as being "less pure than the "Senior Circuit". In fact the terms Junior and Senior circuits are passe and should be retired.

The AL consists of more progressive owners who are unafraid of change and understand the game better than do the NL owners.

Andy

Don't think he was saying the NL plays more day games ( even though I would bet the Cubs give the NL an edge) and outdoors games. I believe his piont is the purest and best of baseball is a NL game, during the day and outside.

[5OClockLighting]

Count me in the minority that dosn't like the DH. Hope the NL never has the DH.

[StarsNStripes]

I don't think the DH is the reason for the AL dominance. It does give them a slight advantage in head to head play, but not enough to account for whats happened the past couple yrs. I think the reason is simply the AL has better teams right now.

I kinda of like the differences that exist between the leagues. Makes for interesting differences in styles of play. I don't think either league has any chance of changing anytime soon, but there are enough people that complain about the DH that if anything I would think the AL would drop it before the NL would use it.

[Stan Musial]

Blasphemy....NEVER happen.

The senior circuit is senior for a reason...

DH..worst thing to ever happen to baseball since steroids

baseball in its purest form is only played by a few NL teams..

DH is an utter disgrace and an abomination to the game..

Just my opinion..I'm an NL guy.

[TheMick@ND]

Just my opinion..I'm an NL guy.

Really? I'm glad you added that because I was going to have to ask.

[swityak11]

I'm holding onto the futile dream of the AL getting rid of the DH just so when one of them puts up huge numbers, I'd no longer have to dismiss their accomplishments by stating that they're only a half player. I'm biased against all of them.

"Yeah but he's a DH" has come out of my mouth quite a few times.

[VerMonsteR]

Ah yes, another thing that happens with alarming regularity. This usually happens because a lot of the best hitters in the NL bat 8th. No wait, that's not right, it happens because most of the pitchers bat cleanup. No, that's not right either. Maybe it just doesn't actually happen very often? That would make the most sense, because the guy who hits in front of the pitcher is usually the worst hitting regular on the team.

This is hardly worth a response but nevertheless...here goes: There are 3 (count em), 3 outs in any inning. With no DH, a pitcher has much more breathing room to put power threats on base and reduce the outs they need to 2...or 2.25 if you count most pitchers batting as 75% chance of an out.

AL baseball is just more fun to watch.

[patrick.o]

This is hardly worth a response but nevertheless...here goes: There are 3 (count em), 3 outs in any inning.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

With no DH, a pitcher has much more breathing room to put power threats on base and reduce the outs they need to 2...or 2.25 if you count most pitchers batting as 75% chance of an out.

Okay, so now we've gone from 'some of the best hitters in baseball' to 'power threats'. We're moving in the right direction. But I'm wondering, how many 'power threats' bat right in front of the pitcher? Surely not very many real 'power threats' bat 8th, or even 7th? Or are you saying that NL pitchers walk the 3rd, 4th, and 5th hitters because they know they'll get an easy out in the 9 hole?

And btw, if pitchers as a group batted the .250 you give them credit for there would never have been a DH rule in the first place. It's probably more like an 80% chance of an out.

AL baseball is just more fun to watch.

Well that at least makes sense. I disagree, but no one can be faulted for just liking one style over the other.