Possible Trade for Armas Jr.?

[Spaceboy88]

According to ESPN Insider: Jim Bowden is interested in making a deal involving one or more of the Nat's veteran players, including Soriano, Guillen, Armas Jr. and Livan Hernandez.

"When asked if he would make a deal with the Yankees -- despite the Yanks' supposed lack of quality young players -- Bowden told the Washington Post, "[the Yankees' farm system] is not that dry. It's wet enough for me.""



I don't know about you guys, but I'd LOVE to have a guy like Armas on the Yankees. He's a good, young strikeout pitcher and could end up being the Shawn Chacon of 2006.

[Mark19]

According to ESPN Insider: Jim Bowden is interested in making a deal involving one or more of the Nat's veteran players, including Soriano, Guillen, Armas Jr. and Livan Hernandez.

"When asked if he would make a deal with the Yankees -- despite the Yanks' supposed lack of quality young players -- Bowden told the Washington Post, "[the Yankees' farm system] is not that dry. It's wet enough for me.""



I don't know about you guys, but I'd LOVE to have a guy like Armas on the Yankees. He's a good, young strikeout pitcher and could end up being the Shawn Chacon of 2006.

Bowden wants to impress his new boss. He will try to secure a top prospect for a troubled, inconsistent guy like Armas. I think we would be better served offering Bowden someone fairly useless for Ryan Church.

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

He isn't really that good, isn't really that young, not really worth anything IMO...

[Spaceboy88]

He isn't really that good, isn't really that young, not really worth anything IMO...

This is what a lot of people said/thought about Chacon last year.

[rajah]

Am I wrong or isn't Armas a product of the Yankee farm system? You guys who value more highly the home-grown should remember that.

I remember him being traded, foolishly, to the Red Sox to get Mike Stanley back, at the end of 97, I believe. Duquette then packaged him with our long lost Pavano buddy for Pedro. Quite a history.

[Frank the Tank]

Am I wrong or isn't Armas a product of the Yankee farm system? You guys who value more highly the home-grown should remember that.

I remember him being traded, foolishly, to the Red Sox to get Mike Stanley back, at the end of 97, I believe. Duquette then packaged him with our long lost Pavano buddy for Pedro. Quite a history.

Yes. He was traded with Jim Mecir for Stanley and then about 5 months later, was part of the Pavano for Pedro trade.

At this point, I'd rather have his father coming out of the bullpen every 5 days.

[Soriambi]

This is what a lot of people said/thought about Chacon last year.

I think those are two different situations, though. Chacon was in Colorado, where the altitude could have been having an effect on the way he pitched. Plus, this year, Chacon has shown a lot of the same tendencies as he had in Colorado (extremely high walk rate, trouble going deep into games because he throws too many pitches, etc.) He's been pretty awful in 2006 so far. I'm not very interested in Armas Jr. I don't see too much there to impress me.

[IronCaballo4]

Bowden said wet

[YankeeStripes]

I'd give them someone like Henn for Armas.

[DontHateOnNumber2]

Armas Jr. is pretty shaky. I wouldn't give up any top prospects for him, no way. Shawn Chacon circa 2005 doesn't even compare to Armas' potential IMO.

[rajah]

Yes. He was traded with Jim Mecir for Stanley and then about 5 months later, was part of the Pavano for Pedro trade.

At this point, I'd rather have his father coming out of the bullpen every 5 days.

I would rather have his father at his peak helping out in the OF and with the offense, that is for sure!!!

[Euclis]

You could make a decent argument that Armas Jr. has had a better career than Chacon. That isn't to say that he's any good, however.

[NelsonMuntz]

He isn't really that good, isn't really that young, not really worth anything IMO...

Agree 100%.

[stupidpunchline]

If we get Armas, can we spin him and Pavano off for Pedro?

[ppa79]

These are the type of guys I would give up for Armas; Sardinha, Shelly Duncan, Kevin Howard, Jeff Karstens, etc.

[FromPagstoRiches]

First off, Bowden and wet in the same sentence just isn't right. Secondly, no thanks on Armas. We already have our share of guys whose shoulder/arm could fall off in the not-so-distant future. Go get Jason Schmidt. or Oliver Perez. Or wait until the Sox dump Clement and then pick him up and straighten him out and enjoy the Sox paying for him to do well here.

[ppa79]

First off, Bowden and wet in the same sentence just isn't right. Secondly, no thanks on Armas. We already have our share of guys whose shoulder/arm could fall off in the not-so-distant future. Go get Jason Schmidt. or Oliver Perez. Or wait until the Sox dump Clement and then pick him up and straighten him out and enjoy the Sox paying for him to do well here.

We aren't getting Jason Schmidt so we can put that to rest. Oliver Perez is a project, he can't help the team this year.

[bobbymagee]

If we get Armas, can we spin him and Pavano off for Pedro?

[JeffWeaverFan]

The problem with Armas is is he really better than what we already have?

[Iknowcool]

Greg Maddux. His contract expires after this season, he likely would come cheap prospect wise, he has playoff experience, and he could be a very good number four or five starter.

[Spaceboy88]

The problem with Armas is is he really better than what we already have?

If we can get him for a mid-level prospect(s), why not? If it doesn't work out, you're not giving up all that much. At this point, there are no "sure things" in the Yankees roatations save for Mussina (knock wood) and with a sparse trade market for pitching by the deadline, a guy like Armas that could be attained for realitively cheap could be a great ROI.

[Euclis]

Greg Maddux. His contract expires after this season, he likely would come cheap prospect wise, he has playoff experience, and he could be a very good number four or five starter.

Maddux will avoid the AL East. He's a smart guy.

[Yanknut023]

Gred Maddux does not pitch deep into games. So the bullpen would be needed.

[Spiker101]

Greg Maddux. His contract expires after this season, he likely would come cheap prospect wise, he has playoff experience, and he could be a very good number four or five starter.

Yeah, and if you pointed a .45 Colt semiautomatic at the head of his wife, he might agree to come to New York. He despises NY for whatever reason.

[Spiker101]

Armas has a 4.18 ERA, which in that league and in that ballpark, ain't so hot, brother. He also has problems with his control, and Torre just loves that in a pitcher. Livan would probably be of more interest. He's not good but he usually gets his keep into the seventh or eighth.

[SheffRocks11]

Well I hope he pitches a perfect game tonight.

[JeffWeaverFan]

If we can get him for a mid-level prospect(s), why not? If it doesn't work out, you're not giving up all that much. At this point, there are no "sure things" in the Yankees roatations save for Mussina (knock wood) and with a sparse trade market for pitching by the deadline, a guy like Armas that could be attained for realitively cheap could be a great ROI.

I think Bowden would ask for way too much for a pitcher who I don't think is any good.

[South Facing Epitaph]

He's only gone 7 innings ONCE all year, this is exactly the pitcher the Yankees should avoid.

[NelsonMuntz]

Armas has a 4.18 ERA, which in that league and in that ballpark, ain't so hot, brother. He also has problems with his control, and Torre just loves that in a pitcher. Livan would probably be of more interest. He's not good but he usually gets his keep into the seventh or eighth.

That's only because Frank Robinson never takes him out. Livan has a 5.18 ERA in the NL in an extreme pitcher's park. He's not an upgrade over anyone in our current rotation. Look at his WHIP and BAA. I don't want Armas, but I definitely don't want Hernandez either.

[Spiker101]

That's only because Frank Robinson never takes him out. Livan has a 5.18 ERA in the NL in an extreme pitcher's park. He's not an upgrade over anyone in our current rotation. Look at his WHIP and BAA. I don't want Armas, but I definitely don't want Hernandez either.

If Chacon is going to continue to pitch to a 5.89 ERA and barely manage to get his team into the fifth inning, I take Livan in a heartbeat, assuming they're not really asking for anything for him, and they won't be.
I'm not sure I don't prefer Livan to Wright as well, if he continues to implode at pitch 90. I like a number five guy who can throw a lot of pitches.

[conkermaniac]

You could make a decent argument that Armas Jr. has had a better career than Chacon. That isn't to say that he's any good, however.

He's pitching in the NL, in a pitcher's park, and half the games haven't been in Coors Field.

[38Special]

If we can get him for a mid-level prospect(s), why not? If it doesn't work out, you're not giving up all that much. At this point, there are no "sure things" in the Yankees roatations save for Mussina (knock wood) and with a sparse trade market for pitching by the deadline, a guy like Armas that could be attained for realitively cheap could be a great ROI.

So we can give away a mid-level prospect for nothing like that stupid Lawton trade?

[Euclis]

He's pitching in the NL, in a pitcher's park, and half the games haven't been in Coors Field.

Armas has a much better career k/bb ratio than Chacon.
He also has a slightly better career era+, which takes into account park factors. He's never had a year like Chacon had last year, but his career numbers are still better.

[AnibalTheCannibal]

Third poor start in a row. Three and two third innings, four runs and a runner on second.

[NelsonMuntz]

If Chacon is going to continue to pitch to a 5.89 ERA and barely manage to get his team into the fifth inning, I take Livan in a heartbeat, assuming they're not really asking for anything for him, and they won't be.
I'm not sure I don't prefer Livan to Wright as well, if he continues to implode at pitch 90. I like a number five guy who can throw a lot of pitches.

But you're missing the point. Robinson just leaves him in games even when he's giving up runs. Torre won't. And that's not necessarily a criticism of Torre. Livan is simply not that good of a pitcher. He's not an upgrade over anything we already have, and I'm not real high on either Chacon or Wright right now.

[Mattpat11]

"[the Yankees' farm system] is not that dry. It's wet enough for me.""



.

Sounds like Bowden is asking for a bottle of JD

[38Special]

But you're missing the point. Robinson just leaves him in games even when he's giving up runs. Torre won't. And that's not necessarily a criticism of Torre. Livan is simply not that good of a pitcher. He's not an upgrade over anything we already have, and I'm not real high on either Chacon or Wright right now.

i just watched armas get the piss beat out of him by the sox and i dont think Torre could have helped it

[NelsonMuntz]

i just watched armas get the piss beat out of him by the sox and i dont think Torre could have helped it

Yeah I don't want Armas or Livan anywhere near this team.

[Spiker101]

But you're missing the point. Robinson just leaves him in games even when he's giving up runs. Torre won't. And that's not necessarily a criticism of Torre. Livan is simply not that good of a pitcher. He's not an upgrade over anything we already have, and I'm not real high on either Chacon or Wright right now.

Livan isn't a particularly good pitcher, though he's better than what he's shown so far this season. What he is a workhorse. He's thrown 200 plus innings every season since 1999 and has averaged 250 each of the past two years. He's averaged over 110 pitches thrown per game started over his entire career. You can allow him to take a beating and it won't affect him., physically. That has value.

If Chacon continues to pitch to a 5.86 ERA while routinely failing to get out of the fifth or sixth inning, I'd much rather have Livan give up the same numbers because it would mean less wear and tear on the bullpen. And you never know, you might get lucky and he gets on a roll, sort of how Chacon did last season. but it's a decision that doesn't have to be made for another month and I'm hoping Chacon gets his act together.

[Yankyfan]

How about we give Jim free Taxi service for a year..

[buntsalot2]

[quote=Spiker101]Livan isn't a particularly good pitcher, though he's better than what he's shown so far this season. What he is a workhorse. He's thrown 200 plus innings every season since 1999 and has averaged 250 each of the past two years. He's averaged over 110 pitches thrown per game started over his entire career. You can allow him to take a beating and it won't affect him., physically. That has value.

quote]

that would help keep the BP fresher. hard to knock all those innings as say compared to Wright, RJ, and Chacon. okay then, Wright or Chacon for Livan, straight up. oh, k, and a few bucks and trucks of fungo balls.

[ryanthe13th]

I'd take Livan. He's just having a poor year and is bound to break out of this sooner or later. He isn't this bad and he can go deep into games.

[The Dynasty]

I'd take Livan. He's just having a poor year and is bound to break out of this sooner or later. He isn't this bad and he can go deep into games.

Exactly. A rotation of Johnson, Mussina, Wang, and Livan (I'm figuring Chacon would get traded) is as solid as it gets when it comes to the playoffs...and regular season for that matter. I'd then put a young guy as our 5th during the season.

Unfortunately, even with that rotation, our pen sucks. Oh well.

[NelsonMuntz]

I'd take Livan. He's just having a poor year and is bound to break out of this sooner or later. He isn't this bad and he can go deep into games.

His number this year are practically identical to the numbers he posted last year. His ERA is over 5.00 pitching in an extreme pitchers park in the NL and his WHIP and BAA are awful. On top of that, he's making $8,000,000 this year. I've seen Hernandez pitch a lot the last two years. Trust me, we don't want him.

[In Mo I Trust]

At least Livan gives you innings, something several pitchers on the staff do not.

[NelsonMuntz]

At least Livan gives you innings, something several pitchers on the staff do not.

He goes deep into games because Robinson doesn't take him out. How long do you think Torre is going to leave him in a game if he's giving up 6 runs in 5 IP?

[Arynduil]

If we get Armas, can we spin him and Pavano off for Pedro?

This cracked me up - nice one. But we all know only Dan Duquette can trade for Pedro.

[In Mo I Trust]

He goes deep into games because Robinson doesn't take him out. How long do you think Torre is going to leave him in a game if he's giving up 6 runs in 5 IP?

Going 7 or 8 innings and giving up 4 or 5 runs would have value on this staff. He's not great, but I'd take him over Chacon or Wright.

[NelsonMuntz]

Going 7 or 8 innings and giving up 4 or 5 runs would have value on this staff. He's not great, but I'd take him over Chacon or Wright.

Yeah, I would take that too. The problem is that Livan is more likely to give up 6 runs over 5 or 6 innings in the AL which means he won't make it to the 7th or 8th very often.

[flymick24]

steven white would probably offer just as much as tony armas could