Trip Report from SoSH, or how I stopped worrying and learned to love NYYFans.com

[Hildy910]

Yes, there are some pretty dumb comments in SoSH gamethreads. There are here too. I actually think that overall, the SoSH gamethreads that I've read seem slightly more moderate and reasonable than the ones here, but that might just be an incorrect first impression (I haven't read many game threads on either site.) Both have a lot of great people, a few terrible, rude and obnoxious posters, and some people in the middle who just lose their tempers in the heat of the moment. I think if you go to either site looking to find reasons to hate it, your job won't be too hard.

I have read a lot of gamethreads on both sites, chiefly b/c for the most part, they are extremely funny and raw. SoSH definitely is more no-holds-barred, and some of their remarks go well over the line of edgy stream of consciousness funny to downright offensive. I particularly can't stand when they go off on the whole 'Clement is a girl so let's make remarks about his having his period, b/c GOD, that's a real insult" tangent. I know it's a male-dominated site, and that sports is overwhelmingly soaked in machismo, but come on. It's not funny, and it makes them look all kinds of jackass. I'm surprised the few female posters there don't take more umbrage. On the other hand, they'd probably be shouted down and mocked if they tried to bring it up, so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.

[CoyoteYankee]

I was agreeing but adding on to your point.

Sorry. I thought that you thought that I was saying something else!

[metalyank]

Wanna hear bad? Read the 2004 All-Star Game thread. They were wishing injury on all the players except the Sox.

Seems they upped that. Lately, they wish death on some Yanks players, death! I suspect the really bad ones are probably 13-15 year olds though.

[NDBoston]

Seems they upped that. Lately, they wish death on some Yanks players, death! I suspect the really bad ones are probably 13-15 year olds though.

SoSH is no different than NoMaas when it comes to tasteless comments.

The real difference is what the mods allow on each board. The restrictions are very clear here where it's more of an "anything goes" mentality on the other two.

As an FYI- It looks like SoSH has been hacked into and that's why it's down at the moment.

[YankeePride1967]

SoSH is no different than NoMaas when it comes to tasteless comments.

The real difference is what the mods allow on each board. The restrictions are very clear here where it's more of an "anything goes" mentality on the other two.

I view both sites the same.

[38Special]

SoSH is no different than NoMaas when it comes to tasteless comments.

And both sites are garbage. That's pretty easy

[YankeePride1967]

And both sites are garbage. That's pretty easy

Agreed.

[Born in the Bronx]

I used to post at Surviving Grady Little. As a Yankee fan, they really didn't like me, and I admit I did tweak them from time to time (and got tweaked back). Unfortunately, despite my efforts, I was never able have an educated baseball discussion with them. It was always "MFY", "the toilet", "Yankees are the devil", Yankee fans are the devil", etc... They have some real anger issues. (but hey, it is their site, I was just a visitor) In addition, it seemed like most of their posters only became fans within the past 10 years. Needless to say, I find most of the Red Sox fans here much more knowledgeable and I get a lot more out of their posts.

[splanky]

Wow, you went to a RS site and tweaked them and then didn't have a good conversation afterwards... Shocking.

I used to post at Surviving Grady Little. As a Yankee fan, they really didn't like me, and I admit I did tweak them from time to time (and got tweaked back). Unfortunately, despite my efforts, I was never able have an educated baseball discussion with them. It was always "MFY", "the toilet", "Yankees are the devil", Yankee fans are the devil", etc... They have some real anger issues. (but hey, it is their site, I was just a visitor) In addition, it seemed like most of their posters only became fans within the past 10 years. Needless to say, I find most of the Red Sox fans here much more knowledgeable and I get a lot more out of their posts.

[Born in the Bronx]

Wow, you went to a RS site and tweaked them and then didn't have a good conversation afterwards... Shocking.

There's nothing wrong with good natured tweaking. You missed the point of my post.

[splanky]

Of course there's nothing wrong with good natured tweaking, but it's also a good way to get yourself off on the wrong foot if you're in enemy territory! If you had already had good discussions with folks and then started ribbing them and they took it poorly, well then I'd say you're in the right.

There's nothing wrong with good natured tweaking. You missed the point of my post.

[UncleSam]

Of course there's nothing wrong with good natured tweaking, but it's also a good way to get yourself off on the wrong foot if you're in enemy territory! If you had already had good discussions with folks and then started ribbing them and they took it poorly, well then I'd say you're in the right.

Over here, I believe it would be immediately labeled as "trolling".

[Kulish29]

"This will all end in tears, I just know it" - Marvin the depressed robot

[splanky]

I played on the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation Little League Team

"This will all end in tears, I just know it" - Marvin the depressed robot

[apolansk]

I don't buy it. If Moose said he would never play without a NTC to the NY teams, why would he sign with the Yankees the very next season. Something is missing here or I am misinterpreting.

Thats part of what made Gammons look so inept. He wrote the article to defend Rocker, but ended up looking like even more of an old fool when Mussina went on to sign with the Yankees the next offseason. There are few pitchers that would fit his original text, Mussina being the only one I could think of, unless you consider USC or Auburn some of the world's top universities, which I don't, then RJ and Tim Hudson respectively could be included as well.

[LuckyLopez]

Peter Gammons outed Mussina in an article a few years back. His article stated that Mussina was a racist. He didnt say Mussina, but he described someone that could only describe Mussina. He was suspended from ESPN for like a week for doing so.

Actually wasn't it Rob Neyer who was suspended? Gammons made the "sophisticated, intellectual" quote and then Neyer wrote up a full article trying to prove that Gammons was talking about Mussina. Neyer got suspended for that and moved his article over to his own website (or maybe it was then first after realizing it wouldn't fly on ESPN.com). Either way it was really Neyer that looked to "out" Mussina based on Gammons' somewhat vague quote.

I did find the text of the Neyer article (ironically enough at SOSH) but not the article itself. I know SOSH used to have a link eplaining the situation and providing links but I can't seem to find it. Maybe its gone or gone private.

Here's Neyer's article:

*******************************************************************************

And now, for something completely different ...

Last June when I launched this site, one of my stated goals was to "write about things I can't at ESPN.com." Well, aside from Vikings- and Royals-specific material, I have not made good on that threat. Today that changes, if only temporarily, because I read a couple of things recently that I feel compelled to write about.

First off, I'm sure many of you have read Peter Gammons' ESPN.com column on John Rocker. It's fair and balanced, and I was happy to see it. But what really struck me was the following:

What Rocker said was unforgivable. But the fact is, every team has heard similar diatribes ... about New York City. One of the game's best pitchers, a sophisticated, intellectual graduate of one of the world's finest universities, has splattered teammates with similar comments and boasts that he will never play without a no-trade clause to the two New York teams.

It doesn't take a genius to guess who this pitcher might be, but before I mention a name, I'll go ahead and work through the research. We've got two presumed facts here. Our mystery man is a top pitcher (rare), and he graduated from a top university (very rare). We'll start with the first of those, and just to make sure nobody gets missed, we'll define "one of the game's best pitchers" as anyone who has saved 30-plus games in either of the last two seasons, or won at least 15 games in either of the last two seasons.

Now, that's obviously a generous definition, and results in pitchers like Kerry Ligtenberg, Dave Veres, Pedro Astacio and Rick Reed being considered among "the game's best pitchers." The list includes 69 different pitchers, 21 of whom met one of the criteria in both 1998 and 1999.

So how many of those 69 pitchers graduated from a four-year college?

Three.

Jeff Montgomery graduated from Marshall.
Mike Mussina graduated from Stanford.
Kevin Tapani graduated from Central Michigan.

Which of those three pitchers is really among the game's best? And which of those three colleges might accurately be described as "a top university"?

You be the judge, and remember that all I'm doing is investigating what Peter Gammons wrote, rather than leveling an accusation against anyone. You'll also have to judge the accuracy of Gammons' comment for yourself.

[hellonewman]

Actually wasn't it Rob Neyer who was suspended? Gammons made the "sophisticated, intellectual" quote and then Neyer wrote up a full article trying to prove that Gammons was talking about Mussina. Neyer got suspended for that and moved his article over to his own website (or maybe it was then first after realizing it wouldn't fly on ESPN.com). Either way it was really Neyer that looked to "out" Mussina based on Gammons' somewhat vague quote.

Disagree. A very casual fan might not have picked up on what Gammons wrote, but very casual fans are not Gammons' audience, and his "hints" were clear enough to draw any serious fan to the same conclusion Neyer reached: he was talking about Mussina. If Neyer "outed" anyone, it was Gammons for engaging in Page Six tactics, the "here's some easy dots to connect, but we're going to leave the name out so we can hide behind vagueness in the event the subject wants to think about a lawsuit" garbage you see in the New York Post.

Actually, I don't doubt Mussina may, in his Oriole days, have told teammates he didn't want to play in New York. I think I remember hearing some comments back in the 1990s to the effect he didn't like visiting there; and I also have some memory that the Yankees were careful, in courting him, not to repeat the mistake they'd made with Greg Maddux in 1992. Then, they tried to sell Maddux on bright lights and Broadway shows, and failed; with Mussina, I remember hearing, they went at it from the other angle, that it's only a short hop from the Bronx to the wooded seclusion of Westchester, you don't have to get mobbed in Times Square every day.

So maybe in his Oriole days Mussina was actually anti-N.Y., but the despicable thing about what Gammons wrote is that it took what may well have been fairly innocuous comments reflecting a small-town person's natural aversion to crowds and a hectic pace of life, and implied an equivalence with Rocker's hate-filled spewings.

[apolansk]

The Nose dares not guess what Gammons considers sophisticated intellectualism. But the rest of that coyly anonymous description—top pitcher, top school, small-town boy—does not cover many people. Unless the University of Southern California, alma mater of Randy "The Big Unit" Johnson, counts as world-class, the only candidate that fits is Mike Mussina—currently of the Orioles, formerly of Stanford University, and long of Montoursville, Pa.

Gammons did not return repeated phone calls to his office. But Orioles PR chief Bill Stetka agrees that, yes, the columnist is clearly talking about Mussina. And according to Stetka, the quiet Orioles ace has not really been running around duplicating Rocker's foaming peckerwood monologues.

According to Stetka, what the Pride of Montoursville has said, clearly and repeatedly, is that he doesn't want to play in New York—not to avoid AIDS patients and immigrants, but because he doesn't like the big city. Identifying Mussina's attitude with Rocker's, Stetka says, is "a total mischaracterization." Gammons, he says, is "taking liberties with what has been said and how it's been said."

If Stetka's account is true (and it jibes with that of a former O's official we talked to), Gammons has done a bit more than take liberties. Absent the queer- and immigrant-baiting, it's hard to see how Mussina's complaints against New York can be called "similar" to Rocker's, or can be said to have "splattered" anyone.

http://citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=3187

[hellonewman]

http://citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=3187

Exactly.

[Fosky]

I'd totally forgotten about that incident. Just reaffirms what a tool Gammons is.

[DandyAndy46]

I'd totally forgotten about that incident. Just reaffirms what a tool Gammons is.

Peter Gammons, a tool?????? Get out of town!!!!!

[Lucen]

As an FYI- It looks like SoSH has been hacked into and that's why it's down at the moment.

It looks like someone may have wiped the account records now... as of this moment, it doesn't recognize my user name or email address. I hope this doesn't mean they'll have to start from scratch, but it may be a while before the site is back up.

Out of curiosity, where did you hear they were hacked? I've been experiencing frequent crashes and error messages for a few days, but the account problems are new.

[Sam18]

Tweaking IS trolling.

[apolansk]

"Even money that A-Rod homers here. I mean, the game is already a blowout."

I'd like to see the SOSH GT after the A-Rod HR off of Shmoopy in Boston when he was the closer for a bit last year.

[Sam18]

I'd like to see the SOSH GT after the A-Rod HR off of Shmoopy in Boston when he was the closer for a bit last year.

Funny thing about that quote is that at nyyfans you see much worse things said about A-rod in the GTs.

[Dannman103]

I'd like to see the SOSH GT after the A-Rod HR off of Shmoopy in Boston when he was the closer for a bit last year.

i feel like almost everyone forgot about that homer...no one wants to remember that arod has ever done anythign clutch

[gtmtnbiker]

Out of curiosity, where did you hear they were hacked? I've been experiencing frequent crashes and error messages for a few days, but the account problems are new.

When I saw that comment about the site being hacked, I went back and took a closer look at the error which was coming from some database. I don't remember the exact text of the error message but I saw the word "fu3ktherules" or something like that. That made me realized that the original poster was probably correct about it getting hacked.

[NYDCYankee]

It looks like someone may have wiped the account records now... as of this moment, it doesn't recognize my user name or email address. I hope this doesn't mean they'll have to start from scratch, but it may be a while before the site is back up.

Out of curiosity, where did you hear they were hacked? I've been experiencing frequent crashes and error messages for a few days, but the account problems are new.

What does SOSH seem to have so many problems? I think if I was a member of that site I would really get frustrated with them alot.

[STNYY]

What does SOSH seem to have so many problems? I think if I was a member of that site I would really get frustrated with them alot.

They switched over to a new server set up recently: they used to be on EZBoard and now they are paying for and maintaining the server themselves. EZBoard was slow but reliable because it's a commercial operation. And it looks like they got hacked.

Hey they're RS fans and all, but that sucks. I wish them the best getting it all fixed.

http://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?showtopic=6065

[Born in the Bronx]

Tweaking IS trolling.

Big difference Sam, big difference.

If one engages in numerous non-confrontational baseball discussions over a period of time, an occasional friendly tweak is fine, however, the tweak should always be kept out of game threads. One should accept being tweaked back.

A troll is someone who only posts to upset the members on the board. A troll never adds anything constructive.