1998 - Deja Vu All Over Again?

[texasyankee]

Interesting article from today's Post.....

a couple of excerpts posted below:

Maybe, if you have an elastic baseball memory, you can recall the fact that the Yankees started the 1998 season on the West Coast, too, and started the season going 1-4, too, and ended it winning 113 of their next 158 games. Maybe that can give you a better feeling about all of this.

AND

In a lot of ways, those 1998 Yankees are a fair model for these 2006 Yankees to aspire to. That team had just acquired a classic leadoff hitter (Chuck Knoblauch) who needed time to acclimate himself to the rest of the lineup. That team started out the season with some find front-line pitchers (David Cone, Andy Pettitte) and lots of unknowns beyond, since it wouldn't be until later that David Wells and Orlando Hernandez became who they became.

Of course, right now, these aren't the parallels that jump off the page at you right now. Things got so bad at the start of that '98 season that the Joe Torre Watch officially began in earnest, and some actually wondered if he'd make it to New York for the home opener.

"I'm fine," Torre kept insisting. "What's the worst that can happen?"

"You could be fired," someone asked, before game six, with the record sitting at 1-4, with Mariano Rivera having just been placed on the disabled list, with the owner stewing and steaming and speculation swirling everywhere, all of this when Joe Torre had yet to become Joe Torre, before the Yankees had become the Yankees, when there was just that one title in 1996 to fall back on, one that was looking like more and more of a fluke as they days passed.

"Been fired before," Torre said. "What else?"

There's No Need To Panic

[TheBabe04]

I just posted this in another thread, but I'll put it here too:

Starters
Andy Pettitte
David Cone
David Wells
Hideki Irabu
Orlando Hernandez

Relievers
Rivera
Stanton
Lloyd
Nelson
Holmes
Mendoza

Only two pitchers older than 32. The Yankee offense only had 2 hitters over 31 (O'Neill and Strawberry). The 1998 Yankees were a very different team, a team in their prime with great pitching, than the 2006 Yankees.

The 2006 offense has a ton more power, and ton more run potential, but nowhere near the depth and quality of arms of the 98' staff.

NOTE: David Wells had already had some of the best seasons of his career prior to 1998. 90', 91', 95' were all great seasons. David Wells was THE David Wells long before 1998.

[gdn]

ZeroSix is the new NineEight.

[WebsterMulligan]

This ain't the '98 Yanks. Not even close.

[texasyankee]

For the most part, I'm not one who goes back in time to make comparisons to prior teams/seasons, but it does serve a useful purpose in staying optimistic when one looks back in history.

I'm not ready to hire Pinella.....

[3M'sBoys]

For the most part, I'm not one who goes back in time to make comparisons to prior teams/seasons, but it does serve a useful purpose in staying optimistic when one looks back in history.

I'm not ready to hire Pinella.....

Why would you hire Pinella?

It is an interesting comparison. I think that was the last time we actually started a season on the west coast, too.

[yankeebot]

I wanna party like its 1998.

[texasyankee]

Why would you hire Pinella?

For the record, I said I wasnt ready!

From FoxSports:

Lou Piniella wouldn't mind getting back into managing in the major leagues.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5487496

[murcer02]

No way.

[ClemensWho?]

But you can only say that they had better arms after the fact that they won 114 and a championship. IMO, I think we have better arms this year but we need some guys to pitch 200+ innings. If you look at the appearances out of the bullpen in 98, Mike Stanton led the team with 67. Last year, Sturtze went out 67 times, Rivera 71, and Gordon 79. When your pen is overworked you have to use guys like alan embree and wayne franklin in late game situations. In 98 we had 3 guys pitch 200+ innings. Last year, 1.

[#1PaFan]

Wow! According to that article, the '98 team started 1-4! WooHoo!!!

[SubwayFanatic]

The 1998 team was a once-in-a-lifetime squad. They had a relentless offense and a very deep pitching staff. They won 114 games during the regular season.

The 2006 team is essentially the same team as last year, which won 95 games, plus Johnny Damon. I see no way in hell how this team has improved that much where they can be mentioned in the same breath as the 1998 team.

Having said all that, do I think this current team can still make the playoffs?

Absolutely.

[nhyankeefan]

I agree with the title of the article, but not the article itself. Comparing this team to the 98 team is absurd.

[montrealer]

I hope NYYBombshell has more than one pair of shoes in her closet.
Yesterday she quoted that she`d eat her right shoe if one more person campared the two teams.

[3M'sBoys]

Of course you can't compare the teams but I think the whole premise is because the '98 team and this one both started out 1-4 and they both had a potent offense.

[jeterdaman]

and i believe, the last time the Pirates lost atleast 4 outta their first 5 games was in 1979. That year they won the World Series.

Anyone think the Pirates are going to win the World Series.

This is a different team, no reason to just assume that because there is a correlation to '98 that the same results will occur.

[CTSoxFan]

I hope NYYBombshell has more than one pair of shoes in her closet.
Yesterday she quoted that she`d eat her right shoe if one more person campared the two teams.

Is this going to be on webcam?

[SI Baseballman]

I saw the '98 Yanks, and these aren't the '98 Yanks.

Heck, I'd be worried about the Royals series coming up, especially since those guys are starting out hot and tearing apart the defending champs.

[pleasepassthesoup]

I wouldn't personally compare this team to the 98 team. I dont think this team is going to win 114 games. But I do think it's fair to say that if the 98 team won 114 games after starting out 1-4, why can't this team win 97 games? I think the connection between the two is that both are good teams that started out slowly. the connection isn't that 2006 will also go down as one of the best teams of all time, because they probably wont.

[NYDCYankee]

The 2006 team is essentially the same team as last year, which won 95 games, plus Johnny Damon. I see no way in hell how this team has improved that much where they can be mentioned in the same breath as the 1998 team.

Don't forget about Kelly Stinett.

[Mattpat11]

For the most part, I'm not one who goes back in time to make comparisons to prior teams/seasons, but it does serve a useful purpose in staying optimistic when one looks back in history.

I'm not ready to hire Pinella.....

The 1989 Yankees went 1-4 too, so I don't see the point of this.

[JfromJersey]

The level of competition is better now. Even the 1998 team wouldn't steamroll over everyone now like they did then.
If the 2006 Yankees aren't careful they can dig themselves too deep a hole to crawl out of.

[bleachersown]

I saw the '98 Yanks, and these aren't the '98 Yanks.

Heck, I'd be worried about the Royals series coming up, especially since those guys are starting out hot and tearing apart the defending champs.

That's becuase the White Sox are a bit overrated in my opinion. They won so many close games last year in which they got every close call. Reverse just a few of those and they don't even make the playoffs last year. True, one can say that about any team, and the Sox did get hot at the right time last year, but this just proves that baseball is a games of inches and that anything can happen on any given day. The Yankks are losing by playing 2 high quality teams on the road. The White Sox have lost games to 1 quality team at home (the rain realy game was handed to them), and theyre playing arguably the worst team in baseball on the road right now. I'm not completely sold on the White Sox for 2006 just yet.

[Don Mack]

Don't forget about Kelly Stinett.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm trying to forget about Kelly Stinkit after last night. Geezus, did he even foul off a pitch? He was horrible at the plate. Automatic strikeout. I think I'd rather get rid of him and keep Wil Nieves.

[CaptainThurman]

I saw the '98 Yanks, and these aren't the '98 Yanks.

Heck, I'd be worried about the Royals series coming up, especially since those guys are starting out hot and tearing apart the defending champs.

Amen, Brother.

In 1998, you couldn't really say that a lot of less expensive teams were easily as good as the Yankees.

In 2006, you can. The White Sox, Angels, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Indians and A's are probably as good as the Yankees, and they're all less expensve, younger and more athletic. And they have better pitching.

In fact, you can combine the Angels and White Sox into one roster and it would be less expensive than the Yankees and probably twice as good.

[Cappy]

The 1989 Yankees went 1-4 too, so I don't see the point of this.

Well... the point of the comparison was never to say that bad starts automatically mean good finishes.

The point is that five, six, or even seven games do not a season make.

The point is that 3% of the season has been played, and every season has its downturns... and just as a slow start does not automatically mean it's a winning team, it doesn't automatically mean it's a losing team either.

The point is that Debbie Downers (in addition to being no fun to hang out with) are overreacting when they point to the past two series as accurate indicators of how this season will go down.

See the point now?

[ZYanksRule]

We always go through a bad stretch. Sometimes it happens in May, sometimes in August, sometimes in Spetember.

This year, it is starting the season off. We'll be fine, I have no worries right now. I'm frusterated, but not worried.

[Jete&Tino42]

This team can't hold a candle to the 98 team. The only team this can be compared to is last year, with their bi-polar play of being outstanding one game, and then turning around and barley mustering together 2 runs.

98? No way.

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

Guys if we lost 4 of 5 in the middle of the season, would you really be worried or would you just call it a bad stretch that every team goes through? I see no reason why this is no different, and I reckon we will come out of it pretty soon, and by soon I mean today. They were hitting the ball hard yesterday and the pitching has been pretty good so far.(The two guys you want in Moose and Randy have been great) Those hits will start falling in eventually.

[Coney36]

and i believe, the last time the Pirates lost atleast 4 outta their first 5 games was in 1979. That year they won the World Series.

Anyone think the Pirates are going to win the World Series.

Yeah, but they didn't start the season in 1979 0-5, so it's not exactly the same... never mind that they haven't had a winning season since 1992.

But I digress, this team's make-up is quite different from the make-up of 1998's team.

[Yankeeah]

The 89 Yankees started 1-4 too.

[#1PaFan]

Well... the point of the comparison was never to say that bad starts automatically mean good finishes.

The point is that five, six, or even seven games do not a season make.

The point is that the season is 3% of the season has been played, and every season has its downturns... and just as a slow start does not automatically mean it's a winning team, it doesn't automatically mean it's a losing team either.

The point is that Debbie Downers (in addition to being no fun to hang out with) are overreacting when they point to the past two series as accurate indicators of how this season will go down.

See the point now?

Apparently, many don't.

[SODM]

Deja Vu?
Hell yes.

'98 Yankees?
Hell no.

If anyone watched the WBC, these Yankees remind me of the U.S. team.
A couple of the players look alike too.

[texasyankee]

Well... the point of the comparison was never to say that bad starts automatically mean good finishes.

The point is that five, six, or even seven games do not a season make.

The point is that the season is 3% of the season has been played.....

Very well stated...... that's my thought, too.

Another thing, I'm glad to see the Yankees finally play at a respectable hour.....

[njyankeesfan]

The fact that our win-loss record thus far matches the beginning of the 1998 season, is no more than an interesting coincidence. These are not the 1998 Yankees, in so many ways. I'm sure the team will do fine, win enough games to win the AL East--but then what? That's been our problem now, since 2001. (Maybe excluding 2001 and 2003, because it's hard to consider the season a failure if the team gets to the World Series--over the week and a half time frame in which the Series takes place, anything can happen, and one team may just be on a roll that week or not.)

Joe Torre himself mentioned this on one of the pre-game shows, that good pitching beats good hitting. Since 2001, the pitching staff as a whole has not filled me with the level of confidence that I felt as the 1998 season unfolded. Everything, I mean everything, went right that year. Every Wells start, I just assumed we'd win, and most times, we did. I was also pretty confident about the Cone and Pettitte starts, and El Duque did great once he joined the team in June. And remember the bullpen, Nelson-Mendoza-Stanton? Again, consistently good, able to preserve a Yankees lead into the late innings. And Rivera? When I attended games in '98 and '99, once Rivera came into the game, I looked at my watch, predicted I'd be headed to the subway in about 10 minutes, and more often than not, I was right. (OK, Rivera's still great and the best in baseball, but maybe I need to give him another minute or two these days.)

And even the hitters were consistent, there weren't multiple players in prolonged slumps, and just when the team was a bit sluggish, Shane Spencer came into the picture and re-energized things. Also, the bottom of the batting order consistently contributed to the offense, when that's not generally expected of the 7-8-9 batters.

All hitters go into slumps, but if you have good pitching, the other team's run production is held to a minimum, so you don't need lots of runs to win. (I am encouraged by the fact that some players are doing more bunting, trying to manufacture runs, something the 1998 Yankees also did well.)

And, yes, the competition in 1998 differs from the competition in 2006. But the 1998 Yankees can only be judged in the context of the their competitors that season, and the team's 125-50 record stands proud.

If comparisons to the 1998 Yankees are to be made, let's see where this team stands in September, and maybe then the talk will have some credibility.

[AJW]

Someone please close this thread. This is getting out of hand. Let's not compare this team to the '98 team.

[ryanm1058123]

seasons over

we can't make comparisons

this team is more like the 1991 team

they suck

no reason watching them.. seasons OVER!!! see you guys next year

[flymick24]

the '98 team had guts, something which this current team seems to lack

for now, i'll just chalk up the lack of offense to law of averages... after scoring 15 runs in the first game, it was all bound to even out sooner or later. all i care about is getting consistently good pitching.

[AJW]

I'm sure the team will do fine, win enough games to win the AL East--but then what? That's been our problem now, since 2001. (Maybe excluding 2001 and 2003, because it's hard to consider the season a failure if the team gets to the World Series--over the week and a half time frame in which the Series takes place, anything can happen, and one team may just be on a roll that week or not.)

That is what concerns me about this team. We all know they will win there share of games and beat up on the bad teams. If they get to the playoffs that's where they will have trouble unless they get another really good solid starter.

[ryanm1058123]

the '98 team had guts, something which this current team seems to lack

for now, i'll just chalk up the lack of offense to law of averages... after scoring 15 runs in the first game, it was all bound to even out sooner or later. all i care about is getting consistently good pitching.

yeah.. lets mistake professionalism and modesty for lack of guts!!

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

That is what concerns me about this team. We all know they will win there share of games and beat up on the bad teams. If they get to the playoffs that's where they will have trouble unless they get another really good solid starter.

Which is why I think this season depends on Moose. Randy Johnson is going to do great like he has been doing so far all season long imo. If we can get what Moose did in his first start most of his starts then I think we are good to go. Of course this year we have more trading pieces for a starter at the deadline if we need one.

[AJW]

Of course this year we have more trading pieces for a starter at the deadline if we need one.

And I hope those two trading pieces are not Hughes and Duncan. I will be royally pissed if either is traded. I really think Moose is a shell of himself which is sad to say. The guy never has won 20 games was at best a very good pitcher in his prime. I only hope he can win at least 15 games this year. Which is why we are going to need another starter that can win more than that. Who will that be? Perhaps someone like Barry Zito. That is the only guy that I can think of off the top of my head. Beane will demand a lot for him at the trade deadline. Which I fear someone like Duncan will be part of the package.

[RhodyYanksFan]

seasons over

we can't make comparisons

this team is more like the 1991 team

they suck

no reason watching them.. seasons OVER!!! see you guys next year

Sarcasm doesn't travel well over the internet. I really hope you're joking.

It's silly to compare this team (or any team) to the 1998 Yankees. That is something we won't ever see again. Everything came together on every level.

[njyankeesfan]

AJW, thanks for seeing my point. In 1999, we signed Roger Clemens, and though there were some concerns about whether his best years were behind him (an unfounded concern, as we've seen), his addition strengthened the pitching staff, helping us to the win the WS in 1999 and 2000. Even in 2000, though, I felt like the team was weakening a bit, and since 2001, how many of our pitchers have we had consistent, complete confidence in? Not to say they're all bad; most of the time they're OK to above average (last night, for example, it's hard to blame the loss on Randy Johnson, because the Yankees should be able to score a few runs to win a game like that; even the best pitcher is occasionally going to give up a run or two), but the consistency is lacking. Injuries have also been a problem with this current staff.

It's the pitching that will determine what kind of season we have. It always is.

[njyankeesfan]

Any of us that witnessed the 1998 season have baseball memories to treasure for a lifetime. But, in my opinion, it diminished the enjoyment of this year's team and creates too much pressure, to even think about the 2006 Yankees as rivaling the 1998 Yankees. It's a little like, having seen a perfect game, finding all the subsequent games wanting because they weren't perfect. (I was lucky enough to have seen one of those, too, another possibly once-in-a-lifetime memory.)

Frankly, I think the pressure of expectations regarding the need to win the World Series weighs heavily on the players and might be counterproductive, making them perform poorly because they're trying too hard because they're feeling the pressure to deliver. Fans that pick up on this pressure and fret about the season after 5 games are likewise diminishing their enjoyment of the greatest game ever invented, and the fans don't have the benefit of getting the big money that the players do, lol. Just my opinion.

[texasyankee]

Yepo, it comes down to pitching that will make or break us - always has.

I seriously doubt that some people would be ready to jump ship if we coulda left Anaheim with a record of 3-3.

[ryanm1058123]

Sarcasm doesn't travel well over the internet. I really hope you're joking.

It's silly to compare this team (or any team) to the 1998 Yankees. That is something we won't ever see again. Everything came together on every level.

i'm being sarcastic

the same people complaining about how we will suck this year will be the same people worshipping the Yankees when they make the playoffs

[texasyankee]

Someone please close this thread. This is getting out of hand. Let's not compare this team to the '98 team.

I dont know what got into me.....

[JDPNYY]

There is no way you can compare the 98 team to the 06 team.

Is Dale Sveum on the 06 team?


'nuff said.

[montrealer]

Tigers are 5 and 0...I don`t think their fans are out sewing 2006 World Champions Banners today but Meh that`s just me.