"In Bonds case MLB wanted him on steroids because it put fannies in the seats so blame Selig for making it happen, not Bonds. And let's now stop the use of performance enhancing substances."
Selig deserves the blame and not Bonds? Puhleaze, no one made Bonds take steroids. He's an adult with free will. Plus he made plenty of money from the fame he's attained by breaking the homerun record. They all share in the blame.
how can you say "i only care about inside the lines" knowing that bonds cheated ?? thats like saying "i only care about what happens on the test paper" not acknowledging that the person has the answer sheet. bonds is the best steroid user ever. he definetly got the most out of the steroids. or performance enhancers before somebody starts with the semantics. and like it or not bonds is getting the most scrutiny because he is the one that is tainting these cherished records forever. yes, he is getting penalized for being a better roid user then the other players. its not fair but its true. giambi will be a blip on the radar 50 years from now. but those records will always have a cheaters name (bonds) in the number one spot. unfortunatly the single season record will have the top 3 names being cheaters. thus making the record meaningless and a joke.
anyway i got off topic in a way. but while i still look at giambi as a cheater, at least he actually showed that he cared a little, by telling the truth. bonds and sheff lied to a grand jury. and im not sure about sheff but bonds is definetly still on something. you dont still hit like that at 42 w/o being on something. bonds doesnt care about anything.
AmenOriginally Posted by BobbyWeird
Andy
Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.
You say no one made Bonds take steroids? Come on, now. The system made Bonds and all the others take steroids. How in hell did the average salary of ballplayers get into the $3 million dollar range? It is because of the power and the HR. Fans like runs scored and HR's and ML baseball did all they could to induce (I truly believe that) the use of steroids.
Singles hitters drive volkswagens and HR hitters drive Cadillacs.
Bonds was driven to use steroids through the financial success he got from them. Sure it was illegal but did baseball do anything to stop it? Did they pay high salaries to those with power, who used steroids? You bet. What message were they sending? Wouldn't you use steroids if you could make $15 Million a year plus? Of course you would. And you know that baseball back then wouldn't punish you.
Yes Bonds did wrong but so did about 3-400 other major leaguers at the time.
Don't come down JUST on Bonds. Come down on all the transgressors, even those on the Yankees squad.
Andy
Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.
Come on, Sheffield is on steroids as much as Bonds is. Stop denying it.
My point is with or without steroids Bond's is a hell of a player. I cannot condemn him for steroid useage whem MLB encouraged its use and turned the other cheak. Bonds did what was wanted as did at least 50% of the ML'ers at the time. If you condemn Bonds then you have to think about all the baseball players of the 90's on, many if not most who used steroids.
Why do you persist in persecuting Bonds when you could look at many Yankees and do the same thing???
Andy
Yogi is a National Treasure. Let's put him in a National Hall of Fame. The man has no peers.
I'm a little more sympathetic to those who took steroids because they needed them to be competitive than I am to Bonds who wanted to make the jump from "hall of famer" to "one of the best players of all time." I have more pity for those who would have found themselves on the streets or forever stuck in the minors than I do for those who wanted to earn a few million more dollars, or whom didn't like being overshadowed by other juicers.
That said, everyone who used steroids did so under their own power. Punishing only the users won't fix the problem (the entire system needed to be changed), but that doesn't mean we let those who cheated off the hook. Even those players who needed steroids to stay in baseball...boo ................ing hoo. They made a choice, let them live by it. There are studies that show that a very high % of high school and college students will cheat at some point during their academic careers. Does that make it ok? Hell no.
Then I guess there are a lot of millionare baseball players driving VW's, being that the average salary in baseball has been over $1 million for some time now.
As for the rest of what's excerpted, I agree. The MLB should also be held accountable. And all the Giambi adjulation I've been reading is pretty comical. I guess we REALLY NEED "heros."
It's our game, the American game... and a blessing to us. --Walt Whitman
Giambi does what Bonds doesn't - and, what exactly is that, openly deny using steroids to the public until his grand jury testimony leaked out and then apologizing for something no one knows what he is apologizing for? Right, Bonds and Giambi, it's like night and day.
"Bonds was driven to use steroids through the financial success he got from them. Sure it was illegal but did baseball do anything to stop it? Did they pay high salaries to those with power, who used steroids? You bet. What message were they sending? Wouldn't you use steroids if you could make $15 Million a year plus? Of course you would. And you know that baseball back then wouldn't punish you.
Yes Bonds did wrong but so did about 3-400 other major leaguers at the time.
Don't come down JUST on Bonds. Come down on all the transgressors, even those on the Yankees squad."
I wasn't just coming down on Bonds. If you read my posts you'll see that I said they all share in the blame. Selig, Bonds, Sheff, Giambi and while I didn't state it blatently, MLB as well and all the players out there who just were lucky enough not to get caught.
I don't buy the system made them do it excuse. I'm sorry. There's aren't poor, deprived children. These pampered athletes who, even when they are midling players, make more in a year than most of us do in a lifetime. The sad part is who knows what will happen to their bodies in another ten years. They may not be around to enjoy all those millions they made. So no, I wouldn't take a drug that could harm my health and shorten my life. But then Andy, I'm a woman so no one is signing me to a $15 million baseball contract with or without steroids.
You have to be kidding me. Giambi originally became one of the game's elite players and netted a giant contract by doing the exact opposite of everything you just said. He's been one of the game's most notorious steroid abusers duing his career. If you're looking for somebody who embodies those ideals on the Yankees alone, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Bernie Williams, Hideki Matsui, Mariano Rivera, Randy Johnson, and Mike Mussina beat Giambi by a mile in this area.
That's not what he said. He said anti-steroid poster boy.
You can't really have credibility speaking out against something unless you've done it.
Nothing to say
im not at all denying that sheffield is a cheater for using roids at one point. what im saying is im not sure if right now he is. sheff isnt putting up .600 obp and isnt 42 years old like your friend bonds.
and who says i dont look at yankees. i admit giambi and sheff are cheaters. i wish the team was completly clean. the only thing i have to do is root for them to do well since theyre on the yankees. just like giants fans have to root for bonds. but if selig wanted to suspend giambi or sheff, then you wont get an argument from me. as long as hes going to suspend anybody else that we know was taking roids too. just because "everybody's doing it" doesnt make it right. bonds is still a cheater. and i dont look past it.
Are you saying Bonds is using roids currently and that's what separates him from Sheff and Giambi?
Do you have one iota of anything close to proof that Bonds is still using?
It's our game, the American game... and a blessing to us. --Walt Whitman
im not trying to seperate him at all in that way. im just saying that if bonds still at 42 has another .600 obp and .850 slugging and you think he's now completly clean then i have a bridge for sale. with sheff, he had a normal season last year. now he could still very well be on something but i dont know for sure because hes not putting up numbers that are miles better then any player ever at 42 years old. and giambi who knows, we know he went off roids at 1st but maybe he went back on something around june last year. im not sure.
the only way i seperate them and i admit its not fair, is that giambi and sheff are blips on the radar of baseball history and bonds is tainting the 2 most cherished records. also that giambi at least had the decency not to lie to a grand jury while bonds and sheffield didnt. but that doesnt mean that bonds should get a bigger punsihment. they should all be punsihed the same.
And there couldn't be two more miserable human beings to have ever played the game. Funny how that always seems to work out...look back at some of the game's greatest players and you'll find that far too many of them were just miserable people...being paid to play a game. Amazing.
I disliked Bonds WAY before he ever turned into the Easter-Island-headed juicer that he had become today - going all the way back to his fights with a classy guy like Jim Leyland in Pittsburgh. He pretty much exposed his number back then.
Forget all this pontificating over why Bonds did this or did that...Bonds has always ever done things for one reason: himself. From what I have seen and read. Bonds started juicing out of a twisted jealousy of all the attention McGwire and Sosa were getting back in '98. That may be the most screwed up reason of all.
Barry will learn the hard way, just as McGwire and Sosa did. When the spotlight came on 'roids, cream, clear and whatever else these guys were talking - and they had to back off - McGwire's body fell apart and Sosa couldn't even hit home runs out of that phone booth in Baltimore.
I'll never respect anything Bonds does simply because he is not the kind of person I would choose to respect. Giambi? Who knows. Whether or not he lied about this or lied about that, at least he didn't sit in front of a bunch of cameras next to his son and blame all his problems on the media, the last refuge of the louse.
Does that make Giambi great person in light of everything that has happened? Of course not. But unlike Bonds, I get the impression that Giambi knows he f*cked up and will have to live with it for the rest of his career, whereas Bonds thinks it's ALLLLLL the media's fault. That said, I make no excuses for ANY of 'em.
Whatever motivated Giambi will forever be a mystery (unless you think it was strictly for the money, which is fine). But with McGwire, it was clear (no pun intended) - he became obsessed with the Home Run record. Sosa? Who knows. Maybe he thought it would be fun the mess with McGwire's head.
If we are to believe what we read, Barry did it for the worst reason of all - envy, which says all you need to know about the man...which isn't much.
Waiting for Sterling to retire so I can start listening to games on the radio again...
Ty Cobb? Just sayin...
Cobb goes WITHOUT sayin'. He made it into an art form!
Waiting for Sterling to retire so I can start listening to games on the radio again...
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