Mark Loretta made a boo-boo

[Hitman23]

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/7830

Loretta will hit second between Coco Crisp and David Ortiz-Manny Ramirez. "I don't think there's a better 3-4 combination -- in history

you sure? you might wanna rethink that, buddy.

[gdn]

But...but... Ortez is teh CLUTCHCHCH!!!111111!!!1!11!

[Mattpat11]

They may not be the best ever, but they're certainly in the conversation somewhere.

[NYYBombshell]

But...but... Ortez is teh CLUTCHCHCH!!!111111!!!1!11!

HE'S TEH CLUTCHIEST CLUTCH EVAR!!!!!11111!!!!11!!!111!

[gdn]

HE'S TEH CLUTCHIEST CLUTCH EVAR!!!!!11111!!!!11!!!111!

Clutchiest McClutcherson!

[Arod for President]

dont get me wrong I love Loretta and hate to see him end up with the redsox. HOWEVER For this guy to think he can be the AL Batting champ over the likes of Arod Texeira Ichiro.. well then again we did see Bill Mueller win one. so who knows.

[ZYanksRule]

He's on the team, whaddya think he's gonna say.

This isn't a story, as much as I hate the RSox.

[Hitman23]

He's on the team, whaddya think he's gonna say.

How about

"David Ortiz-Manny Ramirez are up there with the greatest 3-4 combo"

Someone's gotta tell this guy about the Ruth-Gehrig combo.

[gdn]

How about

"David Ortiz-Manny Ramirez are up there with the greatest 3-4 combo"

Someone's gotta tell this guy about the Ruth-Gehrig combo.

On a serious note - they gotta keep producing at this level for more than 2 years to be even mentioned in the same breath. Get back to me in 3 years and I'll talk about it.

[JDPNYY]

Babe & Lou are laughing at Marky.

[jonnyc39]

Definitely thread worthy.

What's the big deal?

Anyway, what is it about the Sox having to use their second baseman in the 2-hole? Walker, Bellhorn, Graff, now Loretta. I think I'd rather see Youks batting second.

[CanoForPresident]

Definitely thread worthy.

What's the big deal?

Anyway, what is it about the Sox having to use their second baseball in the 2-hole? Walker, Bellhorn, Graff, now Loretta. I think I'd rather see Youks batting second.

just out of curiosity, where exactly do the sox use their FIRST baseball

[wwjdd]

dont get me wrong I love Loretta and hate to see him end up with the redsox. HOWEVER For this guy to think he can be the AL Batting champ over the likes of Arod Texeira Ichiro.. well then again we did see Bill Mueller win one. so who knows.

He didn't say he would be the batting champ. Francona said he is a potential batting champ. It's a manager praising one of his new guys - sure it's hyperbole, but don't blame Loretta.

As for the 3-4 thing, don't be so sensitive guys. Some of you sound like the Patriots and Rodney Harrison - not everyone is disrespecting the Yanks!

On a more serious note, Manny (20) is 3 behind Gehrig (23) on the all-time grand slam list and my memory is that Manny hit 20 in significantly fewer at-bats. Quite the accomplishment and a record Manny should break.

[terminator]

Definitely thread worthy.

What's the big deal?

Also, what is it about the Sox having to use their second baseball in the 2-hole? Walker, Bellhorn, Graff, now Loretta. I think I'd rather see Youks batting second.

What does PECOTA have for Youks, as far as OBP is concerned? Personally, I'd rather have him bat leadoff than Crisp, speed be damned.

[Hitman23]

This isn't a story, as much as I hate the RSox.

well, this also isn't a news site. It's a forum where we discuss things. It was posted on player notes on CBS, so I thought it deserved attention and might make a fun discussion.

[jonnyc39]

just out of curiosity, where exactly do the sox use their FIRST baseball

Know what's really pathetic? I edited my post twice for other grammatical mistakes and didn't even notice the most blatant one. I'm a boob.

[Hitman23]

As for the 3-4 thing, don't be so sensitive guys. Some of you sound like the Patriots and Rodney Harrison - not everyone is disrespecting the Yanks!

I'm not sensative about it. I thought it was humorous. It amazes me sometimes how little some players know about the history of the game. Of course, I don't know the context in which this was said, but face value, it's very ignorant.

[wwjdd]

I'm not sensative about it. I thought it was humorous. It amazes me sometimes how little some players know about the history of the game. Of course, I don't know the context in which this was said, but face value, it's very ignorant.

Not sure it's so much ignorant as just praising his new teammates. If you said, "Hey Mark, what about Ruth and Gehrig?", there's a good chance he'd whack his forehead and go "Doh!."

I don't disagree with your point about how little some players know about the game, though.

[Hitman23]

Not sure it's so much ignorant as just praising his new teammates. If you said, "Hey Mark, what about Ruth and Gehrig?", there's a good chance he'd whack his forehead and go "Doh!."

I agree, that is possible.

[NYDCYankee]

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/7830



you sure? you might wanna rethink that, buddy.

Best in history? Maybe. But they may not even be the best in the AL East.

Damon
Jeter
ARod
Sheff

That looks like 3 Hall of Famers (maybe not Sheff) to just 1 (Manny, I don't think Ortiz will have the career numbers). I think he may regret saying that.

[38Special]

What does PECOTA have for Youks, as far as OBP is concerned? Personally, I'd rather have him bat leadoff than Crisp, speed be damned.

Loretta: .355/.415
Crisp: .345/.465
Youkilis: .368/.421
Snow: .336/.413

[jonnyc39]

Best in history? Maybe. But they may not even be the best in the AL East.

Damon
Jeter
ARod
Sheff

That looks like 3 Hall of Famers (maybe not Sheff) to just 1 (Manny, I don't think Ortiz will have the career numbers). I think he may regret saying that.

So you're saying that the ARod/Sheff 3-4 is better than the Ortiz/Manny 3-4? I don't think overall careers are relevant - it's what the pair of hitters does while hitting aside eachother. It's hard to argue against Manny Ortez.

[terminator]

Best in history? Maybe. But they may not even be the best in the AL East.

Damon
Jeter
ARod
Sheff

That looks like 3 Hall of Famers (maybe not Sheff) to just 1 (Manny, I don't think Ortiz will have the career numbers). I think he may regret saying that.

He was talking about the 3-4 hitters - so not sure how Jeter and Damon figure in the conversation. It wasn't like he was talking about the 1-4 hitters on the Sox.

[pedromartinezfan]

Loretta: .355/.415
Crisp: .345/.465
Youkilis: .368/.421
Snow: .336/.413

Crisp is .353/.460

[Dabu]

Best in history? Maybe. But they may not even be the best in the AL East.

Damon
Jeter
ARod
Sheff

That looks like 3 Hall of Famers (maybe not Sheff) to just 1 (Manny, I don't think Ortiz will have the career numbers). I think he may regret saying that.

You think that Damon is HOF worthy at this point? The only way I see him even having a chance is if he gets another 1200 hits to reach 3000.

[38Special]

in 2005:

Giambi: .346 EQA - 50.6 VORP
A-Rod: .351 EQA - 91.0 VORP

Ortiz: .336 EQA - 75.6 VORP
Manny: .330 EQA - 60 VORP

and I definitely dont think Giambi and A-Rod circa 05 is the best 3-4 combination in history. That's hilarious

[Hitman23]

So you're saying that the ARod/Sheff 3-4 is better than the Ortiz/Manny 3-4? I don't think overall careers are relevant - it's what the pair of hitters does while hitting aside eachother. It's hard to argue against Manny Ortez.

Okay, so the can is going to open, the sabr people will answer this.

It's debatable. It could go either way. But as was mentioned before, we have to see a longer timeline. Both teams have amazing 3-4 combos right now.

[Hitman23]

in 2005:

Giambi: .346 EQA - 50.6 VORP
A-Rod: .351 EQA - 91.0 VORP

Ortiz: .336 EQA - 75.6 VORP
Manny: .330 EQA - 60 VORP

and I definitely dont think Giambi and A-Rod circa 05 is the best 3-4 combination in history. That's hilarious

speak of the devil.....

[jonnyc39]

Okay, so the can is going to open, the sabr people will answer this.

It's debatable. It could go either way. But as was mentioned before, we have to see a longer timeline. Both teams have amazing 3-4 combos right now.

Very true.

[NYDCYankee]

So you're saying that the ARod/Sheff 3-4 is better than the Ortiz/Manny 3-4? I don't think overall careers are relevant - it's what the pair of hitters does while hitting aside eachother. It's hard to argue against Manny Ortez.

Wow my "boo-boo" thanks for pointing that out for me. I thought it said 1-4 I was wrong.

And I do think that Ortiz and Manny are a better 3-4 but I would rather have Sheff and Arod on my team because they are more complete players.

[NYDCYankee]

You think that Damon is HOF worthy at this point? The only way I see him even having a chance is if he gets another 1200 hits to reach 3000.

No. He is the one that I left off. Jeter, AROD (locks) and maybe Sheff.

[SouthernBoSox]

This quote was taken way out of context. I watched the interview on NESN and he said "I think they are one of the best 3-4 combos in the history of the game." Either I heard wrong or they did, I'm gonna go watch it again but I'm pretty sure he said "one of the"

[DaSwing]

This quote was taken way out of context. I watched the interview on NESN and he said "I think they are one of the best 3-4 combos in the history of the game." Either I heard wrong or they did, I'm gonna go watch it again but I'm pretty sure he said "one of the"

He did.... but it really doesn't make for as good of fodder here if you quote it accurately.

[SouthernBoSox]

He did.... but it really doesn't make for as good of fodder here if you quote it accurately.

lol, so true, so true.

[38Special]

He did.... but it really doesn't make for as good of fodder here if you quote it accurately.

It was the exact quote from CBS Sportsline. Unless they misquoted it..

[Prickly Pete]

Further proof that reporting quotes is not an exact science:

Worcester Telegram-Gazette: "If I do hit No. 2, then I have the best three-four combination, probably in history, behind me."

MLB.com: "I don't think there's any better 3-4 combination you could have behind you in the game, maybe in history."

Boston Herald: "I don't think there's a better 3-4 combination -- in history."

[Jersey Yankee]

Clutchiest McClutcherson!

His transmission's so clutch ... it's automatic!!!

[Evil Empire]

Further proof that reporting quotes is not an exact science:

Worcester Telegram-Gazette: "If I do hit No. 2, then I have the best three-four combination, probably in history, behind me."

MLB.com: "I don't think there's any better 3-4 combination you could have behind you in the game, maybe in history."

Boston Herald: "I don't think there's a better 3-4 combination -- in history."

Reporters suck.

[StatenIslandYankee]

Babe and Lou say HI MARK

[hellonewman]

Maybe he thought Bob Meusel batted 4th.

[Babe Rules]

[BobbyMurcerFan]

Well they could be the second best in history.

[SoxfaninNY]

To be fair, they are (if I remember right) the first 3-4 to hit .300+ 40+ 2B, 40+ HR, and 130+ RBIs ever. Granted, the eras are different, and the difference to other contemporary hitters isn't close. But it did happen, and they did it against modern pitching and the modern relief pitching strategy.

Of course, Ruth and Gehrig are historic, and did it for longer. but there are definitely points of discussion.

edit: there's a clear cherry picking of stats here. and I don't advocate saying Manny/Ortiz are better, but the argument (especially considering pitching) exists.

[YankyDave]

Lemme guess, Schilling is the greatest pitcher ever, Theo is the greatest GM ever and Manny is the smartest left fielder ever. I guess all it takes is a uniform to make a player an idiot.

[SoxfaninNY]

Lemme guess, Schilling is the greatest pitcher ever, Theo is the greatest GM ever and Manny is the smartest left fielder ever. I guess all it takes is a uniform to make a player an idiot.

Funny, I've never heard anyone say that aside from you.

[hellonewman]

To be fair, they are (if I remember right) the first 3-4 to hit .300+ 40+ 2B, 40+ HR, and 130+ RBIs ever.

(snip)

edit: there's a clear cherry picking of stats here.

Gee, ya think?

1927
Ruth: .356, 29 2B, 60 HR, 164 RBI
Gehrig: .373, 52 2B, 47 HR, 175 RBI

Guess Babe should have stopped at 2nd on 11 of those homers.

[SoxfaninNY]

Gee, ya think?

1927
Ruth: .356, 29 2B, 60 HR, 164 RBI
Gehrig: .373, 52 2B, 47 HR, 175 RBI

Guess Babe should have stopped at 2nd on 11 of those homers.

I can't argue with that. You got me there. It was a brief 81 years ago that was the last time a 3-4 combo was as good as Manny and Ortiz were against the modern pitching system. All discussion should just end right there.

Again, I never claimed they were as good. and even spoke to the opposite effect.

[YankyDave]

Gee, ya think?

1927
Ruth: .356, 29 2B, 60 HR, 164 RBI
Gehrig: .373, 52 2B, 47 HR, 175 RBI

Guess Babe should have stopped at 2nd on 11 of those homers.

I think the best thing he could have done was play 81 games in Fenway where outs become doubles in left.

[ieddyi]

EQA is probably the best way to evaluate

For 2005:

Ortiz .336 Arod .350
Manny .329 Giambi ..344
Sheff .314


Not clearly the best last year, much less ever

PS, I can't get the columns right, but you get the idea
PPS CAREER EQA-

Ruth .364
Gehrig .344
Ortiz .304
Manny .333

[SoxfaninNY]

I think the best thing he could have done was play 81 games in Fenway where outs become doubles in left.

And maybe the best thing that Ortiz could have done was play in Yankee Stadium in 1927 when the right field fence was 294 ft away.