Mark Loretta made a boo-boo

[Hitman23]

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/7830

Loretta will hit second between Coco Crisp and David Ortiz-Manny Ramirez. "I don't think there's a better 3-4 combination -- in history

you sure? you might wanna rethink that, buddy.

[gdn]

But...but... Ortez is teh CLUTCHCHCH!!!111111!!!1!11!

[NYYBombshell]

But...but... Ortez is teh CLUTCHCHCH!!!111111!!!1!11!

HE'S TEH CLUTCHIEST CLUTCH EVAR!!!!!11111!!!!11!!!111!

[gdn]

HE'S TEH CLUTCHIEST CLUTCH EVAR!!!!!11111!!!!11!!!111!

Clutchiest McClutcherson!

[Jersey Yankee]

Clutchiest McClutcherson!

His transmission's so clutch ... it's automatic!!!

[Mattpat11]

They may not be the best ever, but they're certainly in the conversation somewhere.

[Arod for President]

dont get me wrong I love Loretta and hate to see him end up with the redsox. HOWEVER For this guy to think he can be the AL Batting champ over the likes of Arod Texeira Ichiro.. well then again we did see Bill Mueller win one. so who knows.

[wwjdd]

dont get me wrong I love Loretta and hate to see him end up with the redsox. HOWEVER For this guy to think he can be the AL Batting champ over the likes of Arod Texeira Ichiro.. well then again we did see Bill Mueller win one. so who knows.

He didn't say he would be the batting champ. Francona said he is a potential batting champ. It's a manager praising one of his new guys - sure it's hyperbole, but don't blame Loretta.

As for the 3-4 thing, don't be so sensitive guys. Some of you sound like the Patriots and Rodney Harrison - not everyone is disrespecting the Yanks!

On a more serious note, Manny (20) is 3 behind Gehrig (23) on the all-time grand slam list and my memory is that Manny hit 20 in significantly fewer at-bats. Quite the accomplishment and a record Manny should break.

[Hitman23]

As for the 3-4 thing, don't be so sensitive guys. Some of you sound like the Patriots and Rodney Harrison - not everyone is disrespecting the Yanks!

I'm not sensative about it. I thought it was humorous. It amazes me sometimes how little some players know about the history of the game. Of course, I don't know the context in which this was said, but face value, it's very ignorant.

[wwjdd]

I'm not sensative about it. I thought it was humorous. It amazes me sometimes how little some players know about the history of the game. Of course, I don't know the context in which this was said, but face value, it's very ignorant.

Not sure it's so much ignorant as just praising his new teammates. If you said, "Hey Mark, what about Ruth and Gehrig?", there's a good chance he'd whack his forehead and go "Doh!."

I don't disagree with your point about how little some players know about the game, though.

[Hitman23]

Not sure it's so much ignorant as just praising his new teammates. If you said, "Hey Mark, what about Ruth and Gehrig?", there's a good chance he'd whack his forehead and go "Doh!."

I agree, that is possible.

[njommer]

[I]
On a more serious note, Manny (20) is 3 behind Gehrig (23) on the all-time grand slam list and my memory is that Manny hit 20 in significantly fewer at-bats. Quite the accomplishment and a record Manny should break.

What are you saying, Manny will be better than Gehrig when he hits more grand slams??

This makes no sense, this stat. means nothing.

[wwjdd]

What are you saying, Manny will be better than Gehrig when he hits more grand slams??

This makes no sense, this stat. means nothing.

Huh? I never suggested Manny would be "better than" Gehrig. I just observed that Manny is catching up to Gehrig in the Grand Slam category and that the accomplishment is an impressive one, especially given the significantly fewer at-bats in which he will likely accomplish this. Is that really so controversial?

Lighten up bro. Not every positive statement about a Red Sox player is wrong, nor is every such statement intended as a knock on a Yankee player.

[AnibalTheCannibal]

dont get me wrong I love Loretta and hate to see him end up with the redsox. HOWEVER For this guy to think he can be the AL Batting champ over the likes of Arod Texeira Ichiro.. well then again we did see Bill Mueller win one. so who knows.

You talk about winning batting titles, yet you use Arod and Mark Teixeira? Arod, based on what, 1996? He's never hit within 36 points of that before, or since. Mark Teixeira?! Come on.

[DontHateOnNumber2]

You talk about winning batting titles, yet you use Arod and Mark Teixeira? Arod, based on what, 1996? He's never hit within 36 points of that before, or since. Mark Teixeira?! Come on.

No, I think it's based on last year. That .321 average of Alex's was what had him in so many Triple Crown discussions last year. A-Rod doesn't hit lightly buddy.

[flutie22]

this thread is a joke.

[ZYanksRule]

He's on the team, whaddya think he's gonna say.

This isn't a story, as much as I hate the RSox.

[Hitman23]

He's on the team, whaddya think he's gonna say.

How about

"David Ortiz-Manny Ramirez are up there with the greatest 3-4 combo"

Someone's gotta tell this guy about the Ruth-Gehrig combo.

[gdn]

How about

"David Ortiz-Manny Ramirez are up there with the greatest 3-4 combo"

Someone's gotta tell this guy about the Ruth-Gehrig combo.

On a serious note - they gotta keep producing at this level for more than 2 years to be even mentioned in the same breath. Get back to me in 3 years and I'll talk about it.

[JDPNYY]

Babe & Lou are laughing at Marky.

[Hitman23]

This isn't a story, as much as I hate the RSox.

well, this also isn't a news site. It's a forum where we discuss things. It was posted on player notes on CBS, so I thought it deserved attention and might make a fun discussion.

[jonnyc39]

Definitely thread worthy.

What's the big deal?

Anyway, what is it about the Sox having to use their second baseman in the 2-hole? Walker, Bellhorn, Graff, now Loretta. I think I'd rather see Youks batting second.

[CanoForPresident]

Definitely thread worthy.

What's the big deal?

Anyway, what is it about the Sox having to use their second baseball in the 2-hole? Walker, Bellhorn, Graff, now Loretta. I think I'd rather see Youks batting second.

just out of curiosity, where exactly do the sox use their FIRST baseball

[jonnyc39]

just out of curiosity, where exactly do the sox use their FIRST baseball

Know what's really pathetic? I edited my post twice for other grammatical mistakes and didn't even notice the most blatant one. I'm a boob.

[CalYankeeFan]

.......... I'm a boob.

[terminator]

Definitely thread worthy.

What's the big deal?

Also, what is it about the Sox having to use their second baseball in the 2-hole? Walker, Bellhorn, Graff, now Loretta. I think I'd rather see Youks batting second.

What does PECOTA have for Youks, as far as OBP is concerned? Personally, I'd rather have him bat leadoff than Crisp, speed be damned.

[38Special]

What does PECOTA have for Youks, as far as OBP is concerned? Personally, I'd rather have him bat leadoff than Crisp, speed be damned.

Loretta: .355/.415
Crisp: .345/.465
Youkilis: .368/.421
Snow: .336/.413

[pedromartinezfan]

Loretta: .355/.415
Crisp: .345/.465
Youkilis: .368/.421
Snow: .336/.413

Crisp is .353/.460

[NYDCYankee]

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/7830



you sure? you might wanna rethink that, buddy.

Best in history? Maybe. But they may not even be the best in the AL East.

Damon
Jeter
ARod
Sheff

That looks like 3 Hall of Famers (maybe not Sheff) to just 1 (Manny, I don't think Ortiz will have the career numbers). I think he may regret saying that.

[jonnyc39]

Best in history? Maybe. But they may not even be the best in the AL East.

Damon
Jeter
ARod
Sheff

That looks like 3 Hall of Famers (maybe not Sheff) to just 1 (Manny, I don't think Ortiz will have the career numbers). I think he may regret saying that.

So you're saying that the ARod/Sheff 3-4 is better than the Ortiz/Manny 3-4? I don't think overall careers are relevant - it's what the pair of hitters does while hitting aside eachother. It's hard to argue against Manny Ortez.

[Hitman23]

So you're saying that the ARod/Sheff 3-4 is better than the Ortiz/Manny 3-4? I don't think overall careers are relevant - it's what the pair of hitters does while hitting aside eachother. It's hard to argue against Manny Ortez.

Okay, so the can is going to open, the sabr people will answer this.

It's debatable. It could go either way. But as was mentioned before, we have to see a longer timeline. Both teams have amazing 3-4 combos right now.

[jonnyc39]

Okay, so the can is going to open, the sabr people will answer this.

It's debatable. It could go either way. But as was mentioned before, we have to see a longer timeline. Both teams have amazing 3-4 combos right now.

Very true.

[NYDCYankee]

So you're saying that the ARod/Sheff 3-4 is better than the Ortiz/Manny 3-4? I don't think overall careers are relevant - it's what the pair of hitters does while hitting aside eachother. It's hard to argue against Manny Ortez.

Wow my "boo-boo" thanks for pointing that out for me. I thought it said 1-4 I was wrong.

And I do think that Ortiz and Manny are a better 3-4 but I would rather have Sheff and Arod on my team because they are more complete players.

[terminator]

Best in history? Maybe. But they may not even be the best in the AL East.

Damon
Jeter
ARod
Sheff

That looks like 3 Hall of Famers (maybe not Sheff) to just 1 (Manny, I don't think Ortiz will have the career numbers). I think he may regret saying that.

He was talking about the 3-4 hitters - so not sure how Jeter and Damon figure in the conversation. It wasn't like he was talking about the 1-4 hitters on the Sox.

[Dabu]

Best in history? Maybe. But they may not even be the best in the AL East.

Damon
Jeter
ARod
Sheff

That looks like 3 Hall of Famers (maybe not Sheff) to just 1 (Manny, I don't think Ortiz will have the career numbers). I think he may regret saying that.

You think that Damon is HOF worthy at this point? The only way I see him even having a chance is if he gets another 1200 hits to reach 3000.

[NYDCYankee]

You think that Damon is HOF worthy at this point? The only way I see him even having a chance is if he gets another 1200 hits to reach 3000.

No. He is the one that I left off. Jeter, AROD (locks) and maybe Sheff.

[SouthernBoSox]

This quote was taken way out of context. I watched the interview on NESN and he said "I think they are one of the best 3-4 combos in the history of the game." Either I heard wrong or they did, I'm gonna go watch it again but I'm pretty sure he said "one of the"

[DaSwing]

This quote was taken way out of context. I watched the interview on NESN and he said "I think they are one of the best 3-4 combos in the history of the game." Either I heard wrong or they did, I'm gonna go watch it again but I'm pretty sure he said "one of the"

He did.... but it really doesn't make for as good of fodder here if you quote it accurately.

[DontHateOnNumber2]

This quote was taken way out of context. I watched the interview on NESN and he said "I think they are one of the best 3-4 combos in the history of the game." Either I heard wrong or they did, I'm gonna go watch it again but I'm pretty sure he said "one of the"

If he said "one of the...etc." then he's somewhat right IMO. They're one of the best in Boston Red Sox history. One must give props to other team's past sluggers.

[marietta_soxfan]

No. He is the one that I left off. Jeter, AROD (locks) and maybe Sheff.

Is Jeter a lock? Does he have HOF type numbers? I am sorry I am not up to date on my Yankees stats.

I actually like and respect Jeter because he is a team player and plays his heart out and I would like to see him in the hall over any of the other Yankees. I am just not sure if he is a lock.

[lem]

Is Jeter a lock? Does he have HOF type numbers? I am sorry I am not up to date on my Yankees stats.

I actually like and respect Jeter because he is a team player and plays his heart out and I would like to see him in the hall over any of the other Yankees. I am just not sure if he is a lock.

He'll be in the Hall of Fame, but not for the statistical reasons he deserves it (OPS+, etc). It's the 4+ rings that the sportswriters go for.

[38Special]

in 2005:

Giambi: .346 EQA - 50.6 VORP
A-Rod: .351 EQA - 91.0 VORP

Ortiz: .336 EQA - 75.6 VORP
Manny: .330 EQA - 60 VORP

and I definitely dont think Giambi and A-Rod circa 05 is the best 3-4 combination in history. That's hilarious

[Hitman23]

in 2005:

Giambi: .346 EQA - 50.6 VORP
A-Rod: .351 EQA - 91.0 VORP

Ortiz: .336 EQA - 75.6 VORP
Manny: .330 EQA - 60 VORP

and I definitely dont think Giambi and A-Rod circa 05 is the best 3-4 combination in history. That's hilarious

speak of the devil.....

[Stashed_in_the_South]

in 2005:

Giambi: .346 EQA - 50.6 VORP
A-Rod: .351 EQA - 91.0 VORP

Ortiz: .336 EQA - 75.6 VORP
Manny: .330 EQA - 60 VORP

and I definitely dont think Giambi and A-Rod circa 05 is the best 3-4 combination in history. That's hilarious

You do realize that VORP adjusts for position, right? That you can't just compare a 3rd baseman (which has a much lower expected offensive output) to an outfielder, right?

A-Rod wouldn't have a 91.0 VORP if he were an outfielder. Just saying.

[StatenIslandYankee]

Babe and Lou say HI MARK

[hellonewman]

Maybe he thought Bob Meusel batted 4th.

[johnnyyankee]

Babe and Lou say HI MARK

So do Mickey and Roger.

[Babe Rules]

[BobbyMurcerFan]

Well they could be the second best in history.

[SoxfaninNY]

To be fair, they are (if I remember right) the first 3-4 to hit .300+ 40+ 2B, 40+ HR, and 130+ RBIs ever. Granted, the eras are different, and the difference to other contemporary hitters isn't close. But it did happen, and they did it against modern pitching and the modern relief pitching strategy.

Of course, Ruth and Gehrig are historic, and did it for longer. but there are definitely points of discussion.

edit: there's a clear cherry picking of stats here. and I don't advocate saying Manny/Ortiz are better, but the argument (especially considering pitching) exists.