Reading Books

[yanksconstantino24]

I'm just wondering if anyone here besides me thinks that one can read a book (literature or fiction type) and learn absolutely nothing from it?

For example, in one of my literature courses that I'm required to take, I had to write a paper on what I learned about war after reading five fiction books (all books were anti-war as well). I wrote in the paper that these books taught me absolutely nothing about war, because 1) they were fiction and 2) they were all writen by authors who have never even been in a war. My conclusion to the paper was that the only way to learn about war was to either go to war yourself or talk to alot of soldiers who have been part of a war.

The professor failed me on the paper because he things I'm too narrow minded and just out of line. Am I?

I feel I wrote a decent paper defending why I didn't learn anything about war, but the professor is telling me that doesn't matter because I should have learned something.

[DontHateOnNumber2]

That's screwed up, but I read a novel called Neuromancer by William Gibson and was told to relate the book to present day Earth. It had people with bionic eyes and implants behind their ears that would allow one to instantly learn something. Like the Matrix or something. It was dumb, but since I'm a pretty good writer I made up some nice-sounding stuff and got a B. The book was nothing but a TV show that you had to read.

[fredgmuggs]

I'm just wondering if anyone here besides me thinks that one can read a book (literature or fiction type) and learn absolutely nothing from it?

Well, if you view the Bible as literature...... I nominate Pat Robertson.

[yanksconstantino24]

Well, if you view the Bible as literature...... I nominate Pat Robertson.

Whose Pat Robertson?

And I don't think the Bible is literature.

[fredgmuggs]

Whose Pat Robertson?

And I don't think the Bible is literature.

Pat Robertson is a christian right television political activist... you can find a whole thread on his latest doings over on this forum http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=92290

Many don't view the Bible as literature... they see it as a religious doctrine only, which is a shame in my opinion. I believe to fully appreciate the Bible you need to approach it from a literary context to understand the realities it portrays. I don't want to turn this into a Biblical discussion so I'll end with that. Sorry if I made you uncomfortable.

edit: spelling

[yanksconstantino24]

Pat Robertson is a christian right television political activist.. you can find a whole thread on his latest doings over on this forum http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=92290

Many don't view the Bible as literature... they see it as a religious doctrine only which is a shame in my opinion. I believe to fully appreciate the Bible you need to approach it from a litery context to understand the realities it portrays. I don't want to turn this into a Biblical discussion so I'll end with that. Sorry if I made you uncomfortable.

Thanks. You didn't make me uncomfortable at all.

[Coney36]

I've read (or attempted to read) many books throughout high school that I've gotten nothing out of them... other than that I really am not a fan of English Lit. The Greek epics were the worst - I fell asleep reading the same couple pages over and over again and saying "huh?"

As for your paper, while I don't agree with your point of view, if you had sufficient evidence to support your argument, you ought to be able to argue with your prof for a better grade.

[yankeebot]

What five books did you read?

[yanksconstantino24]

I've read (or attempted to read) many books throughout high school that I've gotten nothing out of them... other than that I really am not a fan of English Lit. The Greek epics were the worst - I fell asleep reading the same couple pages over and over again and saying "huh?"

As for your paper, while I don't agree with your point of view, if you had sufficient evidence to support your argument, you ought to be able to argue with your prof for a better grade.

Thats what I though. Its really not about whether or not the professor agrees with my viewpoint, its about the way I defended it.

[Random]

That's screwed up, but I read a novel called Neuromancer by William Gibson...

That book is *considered* to be a classic, and is even on some Top 100 novel lists. That said, I couldn't get past about 30 pages. It did nothing for me.

I have read some of his later work, and enjoyed it.

[gdn]

Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Not likely. Even if you don't realize it, you've probably learnt something. A new word, new sentence construction, a new phrase, some insight. We retain a lot of what we see and/or read, even if it is subconsciously.

[Mystic Merlyn]

Is it possible? Sure. Is it probable? Not likely. Even if you don't realize it, you've probably learnt something. A new word, new sentence construction, a new phrase, some insight. We retain a lot of what we see and/or read, even if it is subconsciously.

100% correct. Subliminal processing is a powerful thing indeed.

[penguin4]

I read four Hemingway books as part of a paper I had to write (and revise) in tenth grade. The only thing I learned from them is that he sucks.

[#1PaFan]

I read four Hemingway books as part of a paper I had to write (and revise) in tenth grade. The only thing I learned from them is that he sucks.

He certainly sucked a shotgun! OUCH!

[penguin4]

He certainly sucked a shotgun! OUCH!

One of my friends in high school said that he killed himself because he was forced to read his own work.

[patrick.o]

Hemmingway can be tough because he's so dry and deliberate. I find him interesting from a structure of writing point of view, but the pulse of his storys can be nearly inpalpalble at times.

Welcome back, George

[patrick.o]

The professor failed me on the paper because he things I'm too narrow minded and just out of line. Am I?

Narrow minded, yes, out of line, no. I don't know what books you read, but I do know that a person doesn't have to actually experience something for themselves or interview 100 people who have to have some understanding of the issue. For instance, I've never been a drug addict, given birth, or had a major illness, nor have I ever interviewed anyone about them, but I can speak with more than just a passing knowlegde about all three things.

[PettittesPrincess]

I've had classes where we were forced to read articles or whatnot that the teacher thought were socially relevant and they were such wastes, yeah I got marked down because I need to "broaden my horizons." Whatever, teachers like that always made the evaluations at the end of the semester a lot more fun.

[RSoxHater]

That's screwed up, but I read a novel called Neuromancer by William Gibson and was told to relate the book to present day Earth. It had people with bionic eyes and implants behind their ears that would allow one to instantly learn something. Like the Matrix or something. It was dumb, but since I'm a pretty good writer I made up some nice-sounding stuff and got a B. The book was nothing but a TV show that you had to read.

You read Neuromancer for a class. Wow, I wish I had that kind of class when I was back in school.

[yanksconstantino24]

What five books did you read?

The Red Badge of Courage (Stephen Crane), Johnny Got His Gun (Dalton Trumbo), Catch 22 (Joseph Heller), A Farewell to Arms (Ernest Hemingway), and The Things They Carried (Tim O'Brien)

[sprucemoose]

I'm just wondering if anyone here besides me thinks that one can read a book (literature or fiction type) and learn absolutely nothing from it?

For example, in one of my literature courses that I'm required to take, I had to write a paper on what I learned about war after reading five fiction books (all books were anti-war as well). I wrote in the paper that these books taught me absolutely nothing about war, because 1) they were fiction and 2) they were all writen by authors who have never even been in a war. My conclusion to the paper was that the only way to learn about war was to either go to war yourself or talk to alot of soldiers who have been part of a war.

The professor failed me on the paper because he things I'm too narrow minded and just out of line. Am I?

I feel I wrote a decent paper defending why I didn't learn anything about war, but the professor is telling me that doesn't matter because I should have learned something.

The Red Badge of Courage (Stephen Crane), Johnny Got His Gun (Dalton Trumbo), Catch 22 (Joseph Heller), A Farewell to Arms (Ernest Hemingway), and The Things They Carried (Tim O'Brien)

Well, your thesis was flawed anyway. Heller fought in WWII, and Hemingway didn't serve but was on the front lines in the ambulance corps. And Crane's book was based on extensive interviews with veterans of the civil war. Sorry, but I would have failed you as well

[penguin4]

I saw Tom Wolfe speak recently, and he said that Stephen Crane was probably one of the best storytellers in depicting reality the way it is. The guy wrote a fictionalized account of the plight of the homeless and researched it by voluntarily living on the streets, for crying out loud. No, he didn't serve in a war, but The Red Badge of Courage was so dead-on accurate newspapers all over the country were clamoring for his services. I trust him.

Plus Tim O'Brien served in Vietnam and Joseph Heller was in the air force in WWII. (Not to mention I read the first few chapters of Catch 22 while visiting a friend and it was damn good!)

I still support my previous statement, that it is possible sometimes, but in this case I think you're missing something huge here.

[BronxBaumer]

Jesus, are you kidding me? Catch-22 was written by a former member of the airforce who knew the inner workings quite well, O'Brien was in Vietnam--at least I believe that to be true--and Hemmingway was involved in a certain capacity in Italy in World War I. Be that as it may, you should have been able to learn something about the human condition and war through reading these books. Perhaps something about writing as well. Catch-22 happens to be one of the best books that I have ever read...bar-none.

Plus, considering there is an entire field devoted to literature, you're never going to convince you're professor that you got nothing out of it. You are essentially telling him that he doesn't deserve his or her livlihood, which is not only insulting, but somethign he is going to argue (and probably fail you for) everytime.

[NYYBombshell]

The Red Badge of Courage (Stephen Crane), Johnny Got His Gun (Dalton Trumbo), Catch 22 (Joseph Heller), A Farewell to Arms (Ernest Hemingway), and The Things They Carried (Tim O'Brien)

Wait, you read those books and you couldn't write about what you learned about war? Those books aren't describing flambe techniques.

If I was your professor, I would have failed you too. You missed the point of the assignment. There are more ways to learn about war and the horrors therein than just talking to people who were there.

[deranged2005]

Just to voice my opinion, but I did not like The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien. What is true in that book and what is not? It seems every time he makes a statement, he says "That never really happened, but that's what war does to you" in the next chapter. I don't know what happened and what didn't because he spent so long telling you that some of the stuff in the book didn't happen because he doesn't know if he did.

Did he kill a man or did he not? Everytime he said he did, he just denies it. It annoys me so much because I never knew what was actually true in that book.

[yanksconstantino24]

Wait, you read those books and you couldn't write about what you learned about war? Those books aren't describing flambe techniques.

If I was your professor, I would have failed you too. You missed the point of the assignment. There are more ways to learn about war and the horrors therein than just talking to people who were there.

We all learn in different ways, and I didn't learn anything from reading these books. I didn't know these men were in war, because we were told in class that they weren't. I'm not sure why.

[yankeebot]

We all learn in different ways, and I didn't learn anything from reading these books. I didn't know these men were in war, because we were told in class that they weren't. I'm not sure why.

We do all learn in different ways but to not learn anything from these books is pretty hard to fathom. I think your professor is right. You need to be more open-minded. Did you not want to read these books or did you have the preconceived idea that you would not learn anything?

[gdn]

Well, I'm not sure I agree with these claims that he's not open minded. Not receptive? Maybe... not open minded is such a harsh judgment.

[yankeebot]

I was just using open minded as the opposite of the professor's claim of being too narrow minded. No judgement intended.

[NYYBombshell]

Well, I'm not sure I agree with these claims that he's not open minded. Not receptive? Maybe... not open minded is such a harsh judgment.

The poster is female.

[yanksconstantino24]

We do all learn in different ways but to not learn anything from these books is pretty hard to fathom. I think your professor is right. You need to be more open-minded. Did you not want to read these books or did you have the preconceived idea that you would not learn anything?

I didn't want to read these books, but I did read them just as I would any other book that I wanted to read. After reading each book, I came to the conclusion that I didn't learn anything about war. So, I wrote a paper on why I didn't learn a thing about what war is like just from reading these books. I do think its possible that another person to learn about war from reading about it, but that wasn't what the paper was supposed to be on. It was about what I learned about war, and I didn't think I learned anything.

[NYYBombshell]

I didn't want to read these books, but I did read them just as I would any other book that I wanted to read. After reading each book, I came to the conclusion that I didn't learn anything about war. So, I wrote a paper on why I didn't learn a thing about what war is like just from reading these books. I do think its possible that another person to learn about war from reading about it, but that wasn't what the paper was supposed to be on. It was about what I learned about war, and I didn't think I learned anything.

I can't possibly believe you read a book like The Red Badge of Courage and not learned a thing from it.

If you really want to learn something about war, go read All Quiet On The Western Front.

[Sheff_Rod]

I learned nothing from Green Eggs and Ham.

[penguin4]

I learned nothing from Green Eggs and Ham.

You do not like them, so you say. Try them! Try them! And you may.

[Casey at the Bat]

I also find it hard to believe that you can read those books and not learn ANYTHING about war from them. You could have written about how cold and impersonal it can be, or written about how young boys turn to men almost overnight. You could have written about how lonely it could be, or how it could make someone homesick. At the very least, you could have googled those titles (if it was a take-home assignment) to see what others learned about war from the books, and the points that you were possibly missing.

One of the things I learned in my college career was that if I someone (namely me) wants to write a paper that goes against the professor's beliefs or their own education, they had better have a darn-good thesis and infallible evidence to back it up or else they are going to end up with the joke being on them instead of the professor. I had fun arguing with professors through my papers, but I always remembered to play by their rules. Sometimes I won, sometimes I didn't. Either way, it was always entertaining for both of us.

As others have pointed out, I would have failed you too for two reasons:

1. Your thesis is seriously flawed, since most of those authors have either talked to veterans, or were involved in war themselves, which you claimed in your thesis was needed to learn something from war anyway. Using your own thesis against you, the teacher could claim that you should have learned something from them.

2. In all honesty, your thesis appears more like an attempt to try to get out of writing a critical thinking paper. As a history teacher, I get papers like this all the time, and I usually hand them back and tell my students to keep reading until they "learn" something from the material. In most cases, I don't really care what it is that they say they learned (or didn't learn). All I am concerned with is that they have a clear thesis, and evidence to support their claims. Many of my students already know what I am going to counter their arguments with, so they automatically counter my arguments in their papers to make them stronger. It works amazingly well.

I am not claiming that you tried to weasal your way out of a paper with this thesis, because it would be unfair of me since I have not read the paper. I am saying, however, that if you make a claim such as the one you did, you need to have very solid evidence to back it up, or else the joke that was on the teacher will end up being on you.

[penguin4]

One of the things I learned in my college career was that if I someone (namely me) wants to write a paper that goes against the professor's beliefs or their own education, they had better have a darn-good thesis and infallible evidence to back it up or else they are going to end up with the joke being on them instead of the professor. I had fun arguing with professors through my papers, but I always remembered to play by their rules. Sometimes I won, sometimes I didn't. Either way, it was always entertaining for both of us.

Good point. One thing I learned it college was it was a four-year ass-kissing fest. You gave the professor exactly what they wanted to hear, they'd pass you. Challenge them, though, and they could make the semester a living hell. Luckily, few of my classes were that controversial as there would be that much I would need to challenge, but even so, you gotta play by their rules.

My sister learned the hard way. Her freshman seminar professor loved her, that is, until one day the teacher went off on this anti-Bush tirade during a lecture (this being around the time of the Presidential election last year), and my sister, whose views are somewhat Conservative, raised her hand to point out a logical fallacy in the argument. The woman wouldn't call on her for weeks afterwards.

[RhodeyYankee2638]

I hadda read the Death of Ivan Illych by Tolstoy for my Development of Western Civ class. Perhaps the biggest waste of time ever. Also Notes from the Underground by Dosteysky was a waste of time that I learned nothing from (well, only that russians are cold and depressed, but I already knew that)

[PinstripePride]

My big thing is that I'm an excellent BS artist with papers. I feed professors exactly what they want to hear. I will only stray from that if it's something I'm very passionate about. If they give me my grade, and I know exactly what they want to hear, hell, why not give it to them? I would have just written a lot of fluff about how I learned about the true horrors of war because the books placed me there, blah, blah, blah. Not saying you're wrong, but you have a very different approach - and a more honorable one. Sorry to hear he failed, ya. That's rough.

[PinstripePride]

If you really want to learn something about war, go read All Quiet On The Western Front.

Nice suggestion. Good book.

O'Brien was in Vietnam--at least I believe that to be true

I believe you're correct. Book was fiction, but he was in 'Nam.

[NYDCYankee]

That's screwed up, but I read a novel called Neuromancer by William Gibson and was told to relate the book to present day Earth. It had people with bionic eyes and implants behind their ears that would allow one to instantly learn something. Like the Matrix or something. It was dumb, but since I'm a pretty good writer I made up some nice-sounding stuff and got a B. The book was nothing but a TV show that you had to read.

Straylight Run.