If the Mets get Baez, should Yanks lowball Tavarez?

[SINCE77 2]

Tavarez is quickly heading toward the Bengie Molina FA zone of no takers. With the Mets focusing on Baez, Tavarez will have to reassess his insane demand for a 3-4 year deal and perhaps settle on a 1-2 year deal. The Yanks could then trade Sturze and whomever else for a solid RF allowing Sheff to DH and improve our OF defense. Adding Tavarez would give us the bullpen of the ages and improve our bargaining position with regard to Dotel for 2007 and beyond.


Mariano
Farnsworth
Dotel
Tavarez
Myers
Villone

Our starting rotation is more than adequate when backed up by a deep bullpen. Your thoughts.

[Kulish29]

That would make the BP ridiculous, but it would be overkill.

[YankClipper5]

It sounds like an OK move but I don't think we have a bargaining position with Dotel after this year because he will look elsewhere to close. It would be a nice move to bolster the pen, however. I would take Tavarez over Sturtze.

[Evil Empire]

I would try and get him.

[Saxmania]

We need to set up a trade for a 4th OF/DH/1B using the pieces we have, otherwise we're just creating problems as fast as we solve them. Sturtze+Henn or Sturtz+Proctor. Even Pavano+Henn if we get something really good back. But Tavarez would be a fine addition if we could swing one of those deals.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[yankeesrule2000]

I would sign Molina, and make Posada the everyday Dh..

As far as Tavarez, it couldn't hurt.

[TheScooter]

Tavarez stinks.No way

[BJG]

Why would Tavarez choose a situation where he isn't getting much money and he's the 4th best righthander in the bullpen, basically relegating him to mop up duty and no good way to cash in next year?

[vin777b]

That would make the BP ridiculous, but it would be overkill.

not really. You know as well as i do, come All-Star break, NYY will be looking for a bullpen arm. It happens every year, no matter what the pen looks like on paper, opening day.

sign him up.

[SnitchRF]

I wouldn't say our pen has that much depth when we basically have 2 loogys in Myers and Villone, a huge question mark in Dotel, and Tanyon Sturtze. However, I'd love to add Tavarez.

[nnysiny]

as said above, its overkill. the bullpen is done. Cashman wont even bother talking to Boras to crowd up the bullpen

[destro]

i would try to deal sturtze for some prospects and sign tavarez

[BJG]

i would try to deal sturtze for some prospects and sign tavarez

They already need to trade Sturtze or someone else (and trading just Sturtze is only going to get back marginal players, certainly not prospects in the strictest sense). So, after Sturtze, who would you get rid of to make room for Tavarez? I assume Small, but you aren't going to get much for him either.

Anyway, I still don't see why Tavarez would pick a situation where he's this far down on the depth chart, especially if his goal is to reestablish himself for next year.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

i would try to deal sturtze for some prospects and sign tavarez

Trying is easy. Doing would be extremely hard. He can't have much value.

[JeffWeaverFan]

We already have 1 pitcher too many, and when Dotel is ready, we have 2 pitchers too many. We need to subtract a guy, not add one.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I bet some other team would offer him more,

either way

I would rather see henn there

[keithf1]

You can never have too many. Especially if the price isn't that bad.

[The FUTURE]

What are the mets offering for Baez ??


Taveraz would be a good addition but only if we can get him for 1 or 2 years.

[JeffWeaverFan]

You can never have too many. Especially if the price isn't that bad.

You can have too many if they all are on the ML roster. More than 11 pitchers is too many for a ML roster.

[Irabu's Son]

Deal Pavano & Sturtze & Proctor & Henn for a nasty right fielder.

Sign Tavarez.

Win games.

[Blackout806]

tavarez isnt THAT great

[longtimeyankeefan]

Deal Pavano & Sturtze & Proctor & Henn for a nasty right fielder.

To whom? For whom?

[Jace]

Its really hard to get a lot of good bullpen arms through free agency because good bullpen arms want good bullpen roles.

There are only like 2-3 desired roles in a bullpen for a righty and they are all taken on the Yankees. Why would Tavarez sign to do nothing/be injury insurance (overpaying him drastically aside)?

[Stupid Flanders]

I wouldn't say our pen has that much depth when we basically have 2 loogys in Myers and Villone, a huge question mark in Dotel, and Tanyon Sturtze. However, I'd love to add Tavarez.

Kyle Farnsworth says hello

[38Special]

Tavarez once again is not very good

[vin777b]

he is solid.

[flymick24]

i think our bullpen is taken care of

[The FUTURE]

My guess


Tavarez signs a 2 year deal in Atlanta

[ryanthe13th]

We don't need Tavarez, simple as that. He'd be an unneccesary signing unless Cashman decides to:

a.) trade sturtze or proctor
b.) release proctor when dotel returns.

Option A is the most likely since I think Proctor somehow still has some value to a few desperate clubs.

[BJG]

We don't need Tavarez, simple as that. He'd be an unneccesary signing unless Cashman decides to:

a.) trade sturtze or proctor
b.) release proctor when dotel returns.

Option A is the most likely since I think Proctor somehow still has some value to a few desperate clubs.

Proctor has options and isn't a part of the numbers crunch that already exists at the major league level.

[ryanthe13th]

Then we have:

Rivera, Farnsworth, Myers, Villone, Small, Wright, Sturtze, Dotel(when he comes back).

What is the point of signing Tavarez? Didn't he want a ridiculous deal anyway? Once Tavarez does what Damon did(stop bluffing and except negotiations about his actual market value), he'll be scooped up by whoever is interested in him.

[Yankyfan]

No! The guy is a nut.

[keithf1]

You can have too many if they all are on the ML roster. More than 11 pitchers is too many for a ML roster.

Too many good relievers. He would bump off our least skilled reliever obviously.

[JeffWeaverFan]

Too many good relievers. He would bump off our least skilled reliever obviously.

Since Taverez isn't very good, that's really not going to do much. If we signed Taverez, we would need to get rid of 2 pitchers. How about we get rid of our one extra pitchers before we start thinking about overpaying both in years and money for an allright relief pitcher?

[JeffWeaverFan]

We don't need Tavarez, simple as that. He'd be an unneccesary signing unless Cashman decides to:

a.) trade sturtze or proctor
b.) release proctor when dotel returns.

Option A is the most likely since I think Proctor somehow still has some value to a few desperate clubs.

If we traded Sturtze (or any of our pitchers that isn't Proctor since he can be put in AAA), then we would have the right amount of pitchers. We need to trade 2 to have room for Tavarez.

[StatenIslandYankee]

Depends on what price

[destiNY]

That would make the BP ridiculous, but it would be overkill.

Not of Tavarez replaces tanyon

[DandyAndy46]

I think getting Tavarez is a good idea...after all, with the departure of Kevin Brown the Yankees don't have a pitcher with a history of punching things in the dugout/clubhouse and breaking their hand....Tavarez is not a good pitcher, please Cash...leave this guy alone

[YankeePride1967]

We are plus one pitcher, but I don't expect Proctor back if there's no takers for Pavano.

[Nuke LaLoosh]

Happy New Year!!! 27 in '06

[surge511]

We already have 1 pitcher too many, and when Dotel is ready, we have 2 pitchers too many. We need to subtract a guy, not add one.

This is true. I think Dotel is the big key to the pen. If he comes back and pitches like normal Dotel, we have a stellar bullpen. If he can't do that, we are right back in the same trouble as last year. Sturtze is an average reliever, a good one when used occasionally - basically a good 6th inning man. Dotel needs to be the guy to step up for the 7th inning by June and really be the bridge to Farnsworth and Mo.

All this being said, if Farnsworth has an off-year (like he loses his mind in NY), we are in HUGE trouble, which opens up a whole new conversation. But assuming we can count on Farnsworth, a good Dotel would really make this bullpen dominating.

[Irabu's Son]

To whom? For whom?

Tampa for Huff.

[longtimeyankeefan]

Tampa for Huff.

Trading four pitchers for an average RFer is not my idea of a great trade - particularly when one looks at Huff's pedestrian numbers in YS.

[JeffWeaverFan]

particularly when one looks at Huff's pedestrian numbers in YS.

I wouldn't be too concerned with his numbers in YS. He's a lefty so he would be helped by the stadium, not hurt by it. II think the reason guys have worse numbers at YS is because he is facing better pitching than the average, not because of the ballpark.

Looking at Huff's numbers in YS, he only has 12 AB's and hit .250/.387/.375/.762. Not bad numbers and with that sample size, doesn't really mean much.

Saying that, I wouldn't trade all those guys for Huff. I'm worried about his subpar 2005 season. Just Pavano for Huff might be a fair deal, but Tampa would want nothing to do with Pavano and his contract.

[longtimeyankeefan]

I wouldn't be too concerned with his numbers in YS. He's a lefty so he would be helped by the stadium, not hurt by it. II think the reason guys have worse numbers at YS is because he is facing better pitching than the average, not because of the ballpark.

Looking at Huff's numbers in YS, he only has 12 AB's and hit .250/.387/.375/.762. Not bad numbers and with that sample size, doesn't really mean much.

Saying that, I wouldn't trade all those guys for Huff. I'm worried about his subpar 2005 season. Just Pavano for Huff might be a fair deal, but Tampa would want nothing to do with Pavano and his contract.

You would think his numbers would be helped by the stadium, but his career splits don't demonstrate that http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...ng_splits.html

Huff, in 35 games & 128 AB, has hit .305/.350/.422/.772 with only 2 HR in Yankee Stadium - that's not a small sample size, so it is a valid expression of what he might do as a Yankee.

In comparison, for his career at all parks (736 games/2498 ABs), his numbers are .288/.342/.478/.820 with 120 HR. So, while his average is better, his slugging loses 50 points - not exactly what one would expect from a LH power hitter in YS.

Here is another comparison - in the Skydome (46 games/182 AB), Huff's career numbers are a gaudy .335/.402/.599/1.001 with 12 HR. Go figure.

I certainly don't think that Huff is that great a defender in RF as to be worth four pitchers. You suggest Pavano for Huff might be doable - can't say as I would disagree except that Tampa is going to want probably half Pavano's salary as well - Huff is due $7.5M this season vs Pavano's $30.9M over the next three seasons.

Right now, I would pass.

[Irabu's Son]

The reason I suggested that was more along the lines of dumping Pavano, Sturtze, and Proctor, three guys who the Yankees really should have no more use for.

FWIW, I think Huff would be a beast in YS.

How about this protection in the lineup:
Damon
Jeter
Rodriguez
Giambi
Sheffield
Matsui
Huff
Cano
Posada

[JeffWeaverFan]

You would think his numbers would be helped by the stadium, but his career splits don't demonstrate that http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...ng_splits.html

Huff, in 35 games & 128 AB, has hit .305/.350/.422/.772 with only 2 HR in Yankee Stadium - that's not a small sample size, so it is a valid expression of what he might do as a Yankee.

In comparison, for his career at all parks (736 games/2498 ABs), his numbers are .288/.342/.478/.820 with 120 HR. So, while his average is better, his slugging loses 50 points - not exactly what one would expect from a LH power hitter in YS.

Here is another comparison - in the Skydome (46 games/182 AB), Huff's career numbers are a gaudy .335/.402/.599/1.001 with 12 HR. Go figure.

I certainly don't think that Huff is that great a defender in RF as to be worth four pitchers. You suggest Pavano for Huff might be doable - can't say as I would disagree except that Tampa is going to want probably half Pavano's salary as well - Huff is due $7.5M this season vs Pavano's $30.9M over the next three seasons.

Right now, I would pass.

I'm sorry. I was looking at Pavano's numbers at YS just this year I think. Whoops...

Anyways, the point I wanted to make was that I believe players (and this goes for Johnny Damon also) might have worse numbers at YS because they are facing better pitchres than the average.

[Irabu's Son]

I'm sorry. I was looking at Pavano's numbers at YS just this year I think. Whoops...

Anyways, the point I wanted to make was that I believe players (and this goes for Johnny Damon also) might have worse numbers at YS because they are facing better pitchres than the average.

I don't understand the logic. Please explain.

The old days of managers setting up their rotations for certain pitchers to face certain teams are over.

[YankeePride1967]

I don't understand the logic. Please explain.

The old days of managers setting up their rotations for certain pitchers to face certain teams are over.

I think what JWFan is saying is that the reason certain players over the last decade may have worse numbers at YS because of the pitchers on the mound as opposed to the Stadium itself.

[JeffWeaverFan]

I think what JWFan is saying is that the reason certain players over the last decade may have worse numbers at YS because of the pitchers on the mound as opposed to the Stadium itself.

Exactly. When we are looking at a player's YS stats for the last, say, decade, then these guys are facing very good pitchers. Much better pitchers than they are facing when they go to, say, Camden Yards for the last decade (although the Orioles had some good pitchers, but as a whole for the last decade, their pitchers weren't nearly as good as the Yankee pitchers).

So, a guy like Damon has been playing at YS since 1996, and in that time, he is facing guys like Cone, Wells, Pettitte, Jimmy Key, Dwight Gooden, Wetteland, Rivera, El Duque, Clemens, and more recently, Moose, RJ, Javy, and Brown.

Yes, the Yankees have had some guys that didn't pitch well, but for the most part, when you are looking at a players numbers at YS, he is facing better pitching at YS.

And I believe that is why Damon has numbers that aren't great at YS. Same with Huff.