Choi pros:
Choi cons:
- He is only 26
- He has near Gold Glove defense at first
- Very powerful lefty swing
- Kills righty pitching
- Great PR tool for Korean baseball
- Struggles with breaking pitches
- Can't hit lefties
- Mediocre OBP
- Can be inconsistent
You guys think he would make sense as a 1st baseman against righties while Giambi DHs?
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I could see the Yankees going after him, unless Cashman TRULY is dedicated to going with Phillips as the backup. He'd be a nice addition to the bench, and as a spot starter. As long as it is a 1 year, cheap solution. Although, I would like to have a righty hitter to compliment Giambi. I still think he could definitely play a key role off the bench, and provide us with good late inning defense at the position.
If he's non-tendered, I absolutely pick him up. He's already hit at the ML level, and he has a ton of potential.
It's getting to be slim pickings if Choi is looking this attractive...
It's been slim pickings for quite sometime. Choi would be a good bench player I think. He got a lot of press because of that 3 HR game he had.Originally Posted by Darth_Takeo
Choi/Phillips platoon?
Can the Y's really afford to have a 1B platoon in addition to Giambi? That is 3 roster spots for guys who really can't play other positions. That is not exactly the roster flexibility that Cashman wants. (And don't tell me that Phillips can play other IF spots because he has little range and would be a liability on defense. He is not a utility IFer.)
The Y's need an everyday 8th bat in the lineup. Right now they have 7 bats and 2 holes (Phillips and Crosby). Does Choi plug a hole against all pitching?
Wow...sounds good to me...I've always been a big fan of Hee Seop Choi - I remember his "next" article in ESPN...of course he hasn't lived up to those expectations, he can be pretty inconsistently good offensively. And like it's already been stated, his defense is consistently good - which is what really matters.
We've already got our own Choi: Phillips.
Phillips is right handed, Choi is left handed.
So? Giambi's left-handed.
Giambi is going to play everyday, they aren't platooning him with Phillips. Phillips needs a lefty platoon mate if he's going to be on the team.
For what, to be his "Go Fish" partner on the bench?
For whatever reason, there seems to be an opinion that Andy Phillips is a starter on this team - he is NOT people. He is going to spell Giambi at 1B some days. That's his role. Other than that, he is a bench player.
And, BTW, what is this fascination with every non-tendered player? For the most part, they are non-tendered for a reason and it does not have to do with their former team's inability to trade them. It has to do with their being lousy players.
Hee Seop Choi, for example, is a career .240 hitter - he, without a doubt, is the savior of this team. Lets get him signed. :sarcasm:
If he's going to be a bench player, fine, I'm saying if Cashman is planning to have him split off DH/1B with Giambi, than we need a 3rd, left handed bat in the mix.
I have seen nothing reported yet this offseason that suggests that Andy Phillips is going to get any material ABs as the DH on this team. What I have seen reported are comments from Cashman that Phillips is capable of being the backup 1Bman.
It seems to me that some of Cash's comments make it seem like he might get regular ABs. Maybe I just misinterperted them.
Heck no, I'm going the be the first Korean player on the Yankees.
I think one could argue that BK Kim was the first Korean player on the Yankees. He may have been wearing a AZ uniform but.....
This is an an exageration. Choi is better than average, but will never be considered for a Gold Glove.
Choi, IMO, is in a catch 22 at this point in his career. On one hand, he looks attractive as a role player because of his occasional power and his ability to draw walks consistantly. OTOH, he puts up most of his best numbers in stretches in which he is afforded the opportunity to start multiple games succession, and has been mediocre in a part time role.
He has never made more than the league minimum, and will continue to draw interest because his numbers indicate that he shouls be a cost effective back up. In reality, at 26, he needs an opportunity to get 500+ at bats. His obp (.326 in 320 abs in 2005) will continue to slide without more playing time.
If he is ever going to realize his potential, he needs to go somwhere where they'll write him into the lineup everyday against righthanded pitching. He'll never get that opportunity here (Tino got 303 ABs last year). I think it would be a bad move for the Yankees, and a terrible move for Choi.
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Who is BK Kim? Burger King Kim?
The guy who pitched for AZ was BH Kim.
Hee Seop Choi had a .796 OPS vs. righties last year and a .722 OPS vs. lefties. Andy Phillips gave us .450 and .540. Choi's not a savior, but he's an upgrade over Phillips. Choi is slow and he strikes out a lot and he doesn't hit for average, but he's got it all over Andy Phillips, who has yet to prove he can even sporadically hit ML pitching.
I"m sold, let's get him.
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he wont be non-tendered
traded? definitely
This is like an exact replica of the Durazo thread - why is there so much resistance to improving the roster with free talent? Having a stacked 25 man roster is one of the keys to winning, anytime there is an inexpensive opportunity to improve the team it should be pursued.
Because there are only 25 spots on the roster. Those 25 spots need to compliment each other. The Yankees have at least 3 players who would be better off getting regular time at DH. A full-time DH, or even a full-time 1B, doesn't make that possible.
If your argument is that Choi or Durazo would be nice to have on the bench, sure, that would be great, but these are free agents. They are going to seek an opportunity to play regularly, and someone is likely to give it to them.
id rather get durazo if he feels like coming here for the bench, id sure as hell rather have him than Bernie Williams
Why would the Dodgers NT him?
They'll get offers for him no doubt.
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Choi isn't going to be non-tendered. However, if the Yankees can get him at reasonable cost they should, he is a hell of an upgrade over Phillips.
How do we know that Choi is an upgrade over Phillips? Phillips has played a total of 32 ML games - is that a career that we are supposed to judge his talent on?
Phillips has regularly put up decent numbers in the minors, including OPS of .957 and .952 the last two seasons at AAA. He is going to cost this team the ML minimum.
Choi has played for three different ML teams in his three ML seasons and for a good reason - he really isn't that good. He is SLOW, he has 19% more strikeouts than he has hits and his fielding is average.
I would rather go with the Phillips option than picking up someone elses castoffs, thank you very much.
Why is it that you are more interested than other team's castoffs than going with those individuals who have shown us something in the minors when we are talking about bench players?
Instead of having two 1B that can hit righties but struggle against lefties, why dont we get one that can hit lefties?
I think Andy Phillips can hit as well as Choi if not better, but then again, that's just my guess. And, I don't think we have enough room for both Phillips and Choi on the roster.
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Why is it that you are more interested than other team's castoffs than going with those individuals who have shown us something in the minors when we are talking about bench players?[/QUOTE]
Dismissively not considering a player who's been DFAed or non-tendered would be to ignore a significant source of potential talent - witness David Ortiz and Bronson Arroyo.
And refering to these players as castoffs is weak way to make an argument.
The presence of Durazo/Choi would not exclude Phillips from the roster (and if it did, Phillips is 28 years old and has very little MLB experience, something to consider). Every spot on the 25 man roster is important and should be manned by the best players possible.
I like Choi better than Phillips. he's younger, has some pop, is a lefty and plays a great first basae
One or the other, but not both. Choi has failed in many chances over the years, so I'm not sure whether or not I want him anyway. In any case, we don't really need three first baseman.
Re Phillips vs Choi:
Despite questionable playing time, anytime you have a 28 year old who hasn't gotten out of the Minors he is probably an inferior player to the 26 yr old who could start on some teams (barring the occasional A. Small fluke)*. Choi's being LH probably hurts in relation to Giambi, but Yankee stadium does tend to favor LHH.
* see also Crosby, Bubba.
Phillips hasn't gotten out of the minors for the Yankees in large part because their was not place for him on the major league level. With ARod & Giambi at the corner IF positions, its not like the Yankees needed him at the ML level.
Given the offensive numbers that Phillips has put up at the AAA level (.294/.359/.534/.893), I see no reason to go out an sign someone who has been rejected by another team to fill the complementary role that Phillips is designated for.
BTW - Small is a lousy example to cite of the "catching fire in a bottle from the career minor leaguer" idea. Small had seven rather unremarkable seasons at the ML level prior to the Yankee breakout. He made his ML debut back in 1994.
If the Yankees go with someone other than Phillips, a 1-year deal for Travis Lee or JT Snow would make more sense. Choi has more power, but isn't nearly as good with the glove as those 2. Lee may require more at bats than the Yankees could offer, so Snow might be a better 1-year option. Choi will have other opportunities with more playing time. He would be better off on a small market team with less pressure. Phillips has at least paid his dues in the minors. The D-Rays are still talking to Lee and the red sox have interest in Lee or Snow.
Stop trading our prospects.
I apologize, I meant to call him a "career AAAA" guy: someone who can do well in the minors but looks completely overmatched when he gets to the majors. IMO Phillips fits this definition very well and will not compare to Choi (although I think Choi will need regular ABs). So I may have mislabled Small, but I think the "L.I.B." idea applies.
You keep saying this as if roster construction occurs entirely in a vacuum. It doesn't. If you have left-handed hitting 2B, for example, who needs a platoon mate, then selecting another LH middle infielder for your bench who also can't hit lefties, even if he is the better overall hitter than another 2B who can just hit lefties, is a bad idea. The 'lesser' player is actually better for the situation.
Basically, the goal is not to pick the 25 best players, it's to pick the 25 players that work best together. In the Yankees case, this means not carrying a guy like Choi or Durazo who is expecting regular playing time but can only play 1B or DH (and with Durazo, the former is questionable). What would work for the Yankees is a way to split DH time primarily between Matsui, Sheffield, and Giambi. This might mean 1 player who is capable of playing 1B, RF, and LF. It might mean a corner outfielder who needs to be platooned with 1B who hits lefties. Either way, you are getting a player who fits into the team's needs.
On top of this, it would be wonderful if you could get a bunch of great guys who all would expect 150 plate appearences and happily sit on the bench the rest of the time...build a supper bench for the whole season. This just isn't realistic. Players go where they can play as much as possible. At the trade deadline, you can add a vet to sit on the bench a little easier, but really, that's about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJazz
Choi is slow and he strikes out a lot and he doesn't hit for average
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The Yankees have been blessed with great players over the years. Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Phil Rizzuto, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez and now Mark Teixeira to name a few.
I'm very skeptical of the notion that Choi is a plus defender. I saw an ESPN sunday night game either this year or 2004 in which the Dodgers were one of the teams playing. Choi looked TERRIBLE in the field.
Sure, it was just one game but I doubt that Olerud or Mattingly or Keith Hernandez ever looked anywhere near that slow and uncoordinated. He was awful. Grounders went under his glove that were hit medium hard just 3 feet to his right. If Giambi missed the same plays you'd say he was having a bad night by HIS standards. Really good defensive first basemen never have really bad nights by Giambi's standards.
There was not a place for him on the ML roster? How about all of last season when Giambi wasn't even hitting his weight? There's a reason that Cashman went with Olerud (Who looked washed up) and Tony Clark (Who also looked washed up) instead of Andy Phillips. Where was he early this season when Giambi was doing nothing at the plate?
Plus, if ANYONE actually saw ANY potential in Phillips, don't you think he might have become trade bait with Giambi and A-Rod on the roster? Has anyone even asked for him in any trades...ever? When you're 28 and still in the minors...that says something (for both Phillips AND Crosby).
yes, because torre prefers veterans
Hey, Choi has a fan base.
http://choicentral.blogspot.com/
You've got nothing to believe in but believing in yourself.
If he had so much potential I doubt it'd really be that much of an issue. He stuck with Cano over Womack at 2nd even when Cano got off to a miserable start.
Hee Seop Choi is ok but I am always hungry an hour later.
1. Because of their concern about Giambi and his health, the Yankees went out and signed veteran backup. Now that his health issues seem behind him, they are less inclined to worry about his needing to be replaced over a long period of time.
2. With his AAA numbers, I would be shocked to discover that his name hasn't come up in trade talks in the past. The fact that his name is not being reported does not mean his name is not mentioned.
3. With the Yankees, being >25 in the minors seems to be the norm. In an organization that values veterans over youth, is that such a surprise?
I appreciate your example, but give me a little credit please, I certainly understand roster construction and platoon splits. I'm not advocating the acquisition of players just for the hell of it, I'm talking about acquiring a player on the cheap that would help the team win more games.
Prior to Cano, name the last rookie that Torre stuck with for any length of time?
As near as I can tell, it was Erick Almonte, when Jeter got injured opening day in 2003. Prior to that, it was Soriano in 2001.
The fact is that Torre (and the Yankees) rarely depend upon rookie talent - whether on the bench or in the regular lineup.
A Brian Daubach type or a David Newhan type has inherently more value in your own orgainzation. Certianly, it doesn't make a lot of sense to trade for these kinds of guys, as you are giving up something for the kind of player whose long term impact is limited and who you could find in AAA somewhere in your own organizatioin. That doesn't mean that, for a couple of peak seasons, they can't be useful contributors, especially if you limit their exposure to situations at which they are likely to be the best at (for example, against lefties for Phillips).
You also have to remember that these kinds of guys aren't long term solutions. What you are looking to get is average production out of them during their peak years. In other words, as good as they are going to get in their careers is probably average, but if you need average and you have the guy at their peak, you get average for a year or 2.
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