Pavano given clean bill of health....bears watching for a trade

[Yankeeah]

If yanks had signed free agen Mark Sweeney we wouldn't be talking about trading sturtz+minor leagures etc for micheals b/c sweeney plays RF and LF in the outfield. He also has good OBP when comapring to other utility men. More, he also plays first base increase lot of flexibility, and i know many ppl here have talked about signing RF/1B/DH type of guy...but sadly we missed him.

I was all for Sweeney, but he probably wanted to stay on the West Coast.

[genius-24]

I disagree about the 'no promise' thing. Proctor, yes, he's just a warm body who throws hard. Henn on the other hand is left handed and throws in the low-to-mid 90's and is still realtivley young.

"Promise" meaning someone who was drafted with high hopes, such as delmon younge or upton brothers,also, someone who flurished in the minors and everyone around him had high hopes for him.

[Kulish29]

"Promise" meaning someone who was drafted with high hopes, such as delmon younge or upton brothers,also, someone who flurished in the minors and everyone around him had high hopes for him.

That doesnt mean Sean Henn doesnt have promise. He's still young and still has a chance to improve.

[guidry36]

That doesnt mean Sean Henn doesnt have promise. He's still young and still has a chance to improve.

If Henn doesn't get a chance in the 2007 rotation, he could definitely get a shot as a reliever. It will be interesting to watch him in Columbus in 06'.

[JeffWeaverFan]

Sadly, this isnt happening. I think we must include sturtz in this deal because of his experience in ML. Proctor and henn showed that they are not good at ML level, YET. Also there is no promise involving those players.

Henn definitely has promise. There's a reason we didn't want to include him in the Chacon trade.

[freebubba]

Anyone who thinks that Jeter should still bat leadoff after the addition of Damon should be taken out to the woodshed and whipped. Jeter hitting leadoff for the last three years has irritated me to no end. I realize it was necessary, but man. The ONLY problem, if one exists, is the fact that Jeter is being replaced in the leadoff spot with, well, statistically, Derek Jeter. Jeter k's more, but he draws more walks. Given the choice, Joe trusts Jeter, and rightfully so, as the "better" situational hitter. Jeter hits second, end of discussion, kill the topic.

[Yankeeah]

Anyone who thinks that Jeter should still bat leadoff after the addition of Damon should be taken out to the woodshed and whipped. Jeter hitting leadoff for the last three years has irritated me to no end. I realize it was necessary, but man. The ONLY problem, if one exists, is the fact that Jeter is being replaced in the leadoff spot with, well, statistically, Derek Jeter. Jeter k's more, but he draws more walks. Given the choice, Joe trusts Jeter, and rightfully so, as the "better" situational hitter. Jeter hits second, end of discussion, kill the topic.

Why did it iratate you to no end? Jeter has had a better OBP than Johnny 9 of the last 10 years. The job of the leadoff hitter is to get on base (which Jeter does better) and to put yourself in the best position to score. Damon is a batter base stealer, but few players run the bases like Jeter.

Don't present your opinion, give two general stats, and then say that no other opinion matters.

[Sam18]

Anyone who thinks that Jeter should still bat leadoff after the addition of Damon should be taken out to the woodshed and whipped.

So anyone who thinks the Yankees should construct the best lineup possible should be beaten and whipped?

[ryanthe13th]

Jeter batting 1st vs Lefties
Damon batting 1st vs Righties.


Do it.

[Jersey Yankee]

Anyone who thinks that Jeter should still bat leadoff after the addition of Damon should be taken out to the woodshed and whipped. Jeter hitting leadoff for the last three years has irritated me to no end. I realize it was necessary, but man. The ONLY problem, if one exists, is the fact that Jeter is being replaced in the leadoff spot with, well, statistically, Derek Jeter. Jeter k's more, but he draws more walks. Given the choice, Joe trusts Jeter, and rightfully so, as the "better" situational hitter. Jeter hits second, end of discussion, kill the topic.

Do you have any stats as to what both Jeter and Damon have done in the leadoff spot for the first inning?

Both have excellent baserunning skills, so is there a reason (if any) in which you may prefer Damon batting in front of Jeter after the 1st inning?

[Sam18]

Jeter batting 1st vs Lefties
Damon batting 1st vs Righties.


Do it.

Jeter had a .392 OBP against righties while Damon had a .361 OBP against righties. For their careers Damon has a .357 OBP against righties while Jeter has a .381 OBP against righties. Its not even close.

[ryanthe13th]

Jeter had a .392 OBP against righties while Damon had a .361 OBP against righties. For their careers Damon has a .357 OBP against righties while Jeter has a .381 OBP against righties. Its not even close.

Maybe I flip flopped it on accident? I saw a number that had Damon hitting better in the #1 spot against righties or lefties, but maybe it was just for the year instead of career.

[Sam18]

Maybe I flip flopped it on accident? I saw a number that had Damon hitting better in the #1 spot against righties or lefties, but maybe it was just for the year instead of career.

Damon also hits better than DJ with RISP so it makes all the sense in the world for Jeter leadingoff with JD batting second.

[ryanthe13th]

Damon also hits better than DJ with RISP so it makes all the sense in the world for Jeter leadingoff with JD batting second.

I'm in favor of Jeter keeping his leadoff spot, but unfortunately that isn't going to happen. For some reason the sports media and a few fans have forgotten who our leadoff hitter is in the midst of all this "Signing Damon gives the Yankees a legitimate lead off hitter" non-sense.

[Sam18]

I'm in favor of Jeter keeping his leadoff spot, but unfortunately that isn't going to happen. For some reason the sports media and a few fans have forgotten who our leadoff hitter is in the midst of all this "Signing Damon gives the Yankees a legitimate lead off hitter" non-sense.

I agree on all points.

[NewEraYanks2527]

Jeter batting 1st vs Lefties
Damon batting 1st vs Righties.


Do it.

How did this thread turn into a who should bat leadoff thread?

[NelsonMuntz]

How did this thread turn into a who should bat leadoff thread?

Sooner or later every thread eventually becomes a discussion of one of the following items:

1) Does Melky have a future with the Yankees?
2) I wish we still had Pettitte and we shouldn't have treated him with disrespect vs. Pettitte was overrated and he chose to leave on his own
3) Carlos Beltran
4) What went wrong with Javiar Vazquez?
5) Mel & Joe suck
6) Jeter moving to CF
7) Howard Stern vs. Opie and Anthony
8) And most recently, Jeter vs. Damon leading off

[Davios]

Sooner or later every thread eventually becomes a discussion of one of the following items:

1) Does Melky have a future with the Yankees?
2) I wish we still had Pettitte and we shouldn't have treated him with disrespect vs. Pettitte was overrated and he chose to leave on his own
3) Carlos Beltran
4) What went wrong with Javiar Vazquez?
5) Mel & Joe suck
6) Jeter moving to CF
7) Howard Stern vs. Opie and Anthony
8) And most recently, Jeter vs. Damon leading off

Wish I saw more of those Stern vs. O&A discussions, I'd love to be a part of those.........

Oh and your forgot #9, Why the hell don't we trade for Jason Michaels.

[NelsonMuntz]

Wish I saw more of those Stern vs. O&A discussions, I'd love to be a part of those.........

For starters...

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=92314
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=91444
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ghlight=Sirius
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ghlight=Sirius
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ghlight=Sirius
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ghlight=Sirius
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ight=Satellite
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ight=Satellite
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ight=Satellite
http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ight=Satellite

Knock yourself out.

[ShaneTravis]

Sooner or later every thread eventually becomes a discussion of one of the following items:

1) Does Melky have a future with the Yankees?
2) I wish we still had Pettitte and we shouldn't have treated him with disrespect vs. Pettitte was overrated and he chose to leave on his own
3) Carlos Beltran
4) What went wrong with Javiar Vazquez?
5) Mel & Joe suck
6) Jeter moving to CF
7) Howard Stern vs. Opie and Anthony
8) And most recently, Jeter vs. Damon leading off

also the great Soriano debate.

[NewEraYanks2527]

Sooner or later every thread eventually becomes a discussion of one of the following items:

1) Does Melky have a future with the Yankees?
2) I wish we still had Pettitte and we shouldn't have treated him with disrespect vs. Pettitte was overrated and he chose to leave on his own
3) Carlos Beltran
4) What went wrong with Javiar Vazquez?
5) Mel & Joe suck
6) Jeter moving to CF
7) Howard Stern vs. Opie and Anthony
8) And most recently, Jeter vs. Damon leading off

The sad thing is you are right and it really is pathetic that people really can't stay on topic. I come on here and see the Pavano thread has gotten updates and I'm thinking "Maybe someone heard something or has an original idea" and I look in it to find Jeter Vs Damon leading off crap. Seriously people can we stay on topics and stick with relevence, it really is a waste of time and effort to turn almost everythread into those very accuratley mentioned by Nelson Muntz above, (also throwing in the Soriano debate).

[justinvarnes]

I think Jeter is overrated defensively. He's below average at best.

[ShaneTravis]

From todays Phildelphia Inquirer
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/13596113.htm

"The one area that we've been trying to focus on... is our pitching," Gillick said. "And that's the area we haven't improved, both the front end and the back end."


"Gillick reiterated yesterday that the most likely route for obtaining a quality starter would come via a trade. Rightfielder Bobby Abreu is considered the obvious candidate."

Philly continues to look for a starter or relievers. How can we not match up?

We have excess at both ends. Pavano for Bobby straight up? Not going to happen. A combination of Henn,Proctor,Wright,Pavano,Sturtz ?

They currently have no one to set-up Gordon--They lost Wagner,Urbina.

Starters--Jon Lieber, Brett Myers, Cory Lidle, Ryan Franklin,and Ryan Madson.

Their staff does not instill much confidence.

[BJG]

From todays Phildelphia Inquirer
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/13596113.htm



Philly continues to look for a starter or relievers. How can we not match up?

We have excess at both ends. Pavano for Bobby straight up? Not going to happen. A combination of Henn,Proctor,Wright,Pavano,Sturtz ?

They currently have no one to set-up Gordon--They lost Wagner,Urbina.

Starters--Jon Lieber, Brett Myers, Cory Lidle, Ryan Franklin,and Ryan Madson.

Their staff does not instill much confidence.

Because none of our excess is all that good and there are better pitchers on the market?

[MTYankee23]

Because none of our excess is all that good and there are better pitchers on the market?

Are there?

[BJG]

Are there?

I'd take Clement or Arroyo over Pavano.

[ShaneTravis]

Because none of our excess is all that good and there are better pitchers on the market?

I have been saying the same thing for the last month. Yet, Philly has found no takers, none for pitching.

The only rumors (emphasis on rumor) is they were going to trade for Miggy using Abreu and then spinning him off to Boston, the other was trying to find a match for Prior.


And a trade of Pavano,Sturtz and Henn is a very fair deal for Philly.

[shutout]

What about Pavano (it was the intent of this thread to talk about Pavano I suppose)? Has anyone heard news or speculation about him getting traded or not?

I think Pavano should be granted a 2nd chance. He's got quite a lot of talent. He won't be our #1 starter (ever) but he's good enough for a #2 - #4 once he gets to the level he should be able to play on.

[38Special]

I'd take Clement or Arroyo over Pavano.

I agree about Clement but not Arroyo

[ShaneTravis]

What about Pavano [HTML](it was the intent of this thread to talk about Pavano I suppose)?[/HTML] Has anyone heard news or speculation about him getting traded or not?

I think Pavano should be granted a 2nd chance. He's got quite a lot of talent. He won't be our #1 starter (ever) but he's good enough for a #2 - #4 once he gets to the level he should be able to play on.

The name of the thread is "Pavano...bears watching for a trade".

There are some of us that think Pavano's greatest talent on the Yanks is his trade value. Hence the Abreu for Pavano......

Good enough for a # 2 starter on the Yanks? Really?

[BJG]

I agree about Clement but not Arroyo

Part of Arroyo's trade value lies in his salary.

[noneckwilliams]

What about Pavano (it was the intent of this thread to talk about Pavano I suppose)? Has anyone heard news or speculation about him getting traded or not?

I think Pavano should be granted a 2nd chance. He's got quite a lot of talent. He won't be our #1 starter (ever) but he's good enough for a #2 - #4 once he gets to the level he should be able to play on.

Pavano makes a lot of money, is coming off an injury-plagued season and even in the best of times is not an All-Star caliber pitcher. His trade value is probably pretty minimal.

That said, if he could manage to stay healthy, deal with whatever issue he may have in pitching in New York and give them 180+ innings he could end up winning 15 games on a team that figures to have a pretty potent offense.

[MTYankee23]

I'd take Clement or Arroyo over Pavano.

Either is an option, but if the Sox and Phillies don't have a match, that doesn't help them.

[BJG]

Either is an option, but if the Sox and Phillies don't have a match, that doesn't help them.

The Sox have shown interest in Abreu. Both Clement and Arroyo seem to be preferred in the marketplace to Pavano. I'd still say that that there is a better chance there of a match than there is when the best you can offer is Pavano, Sturtze, and Henn.

[Mattpat11]

What about Pavano (it was the intent of this thread to talk about Pavano I suppose)? Has anyone heard news or speculation about him getting traded or not?

I think Pavano should be granted a 2nd chance. He's got quite a lot of talent. He won't be our #1 starter (ever) but he's good enough for a #2 - #4 once he gets to the level he should be able to play on.

He's a career average pitcher that's always hurt.

[Ghost of Dan Pasqua]

"The new Phillies general manager said at a media luncheon here yesterday that a deal that would have brought the Phillies a No. 1 or No. 2 starter fell through yesterday morning because the other team backed out.

"They fell out," Gillick said. "Could the deal eventually happen? I'm not optimistic."

Gillick, as has been his policy, didn't name the other team or the players involved, but one of the piitchers they've pursued hardest this offseason has been Orioles lefthander Erik Bedard.

Essentially every deal for a top pitcher the Phillies have been involved with has included rightfielder Bobby Abreu."

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/13606464.htm

OK, so, the Philly papers speculated on Bedard. Other #1's out there who are available I guess would be Zito or Contreras. Interesting that Gillick described the pitcher as a #1 or #2...is Pavano in any way, shape, or form a #2 pitcher in some eyes (considering he had an 18 win season under his belt, statistically yes, I guess)? And if it could have been the Yankees, would they back out of it for money or if other players were asked about (Hughes or Duncan for instance).

[BJG]

Manny/Clement for Abreu/Michaels is another possibility.

[JeffWeaverFan]

Manny/Clement for Abreu/Michaels is another possibility.

I don't think the Red Sox would have backed out of that deal.

[BJG]

I don't think the Red Sox would have backed out of that deal.

Just a rumor that's out there. Philly asked for more cash, says the rumor.

[Ghost of Dan Pasqua]

Manny/Clement for Abreu/Michaels is another possibility.

Matt Clement is a #1 or #2? If last years free agent bidding is any indication of what teams thought of their value, I don't recall a Mattopalooza tour. Seems unlikely to be Boston.

[ring403]

http://www.courant.com/sports/baseba...lines-baseball

In November, when it was being reported that Pavano wanted to be traded, he called Cashman to say that he wanted to stay.

"I think Carl needed to say that more than I needed to hear it," Cashman said.

Publicly, Pavano stayed quiet.

"I didn't feel I had to defend myself for something I never said," he said.

As the offseason has worn on, Pavano's name has continued to surface in trade rumors. With center field filled by Johnny Damon and after adding four relief pitchers, the Yankees aren't looking for anything in particular. Cashman said he has no plans to move Pavano, but wouldn't rule it out.

"As with any player who doesn't have a no-trade clause, I would listen if someone came up with something that might make us better," Cashman said. "That's the nature of the business."

[drjeckyl]

This article on Pavano is interesting as it describes some of the problems he had last year.

This is the first time I've seen this mentioned.

Although nothing was said about it at the time, Pavano's '05 season was doomed in spring training, when he strained his back. He altered his pitching motion to compensate and hurt his shoulder.

Said Pavano: "I really have no control over [trade rumors]. But I know I can do the job for the Yankees, I know I can help this team, and I'm confident that they feel the same way I feel."

Sounds like Carl had to make some adjustments last season and is looking forward to contributing this season and being a Yankee. I'm glad to read him say it considering all the noise coming from unhappy players this off season demanding to be traded, dictating where they will play, etc...

[Mattpat11]

This article on Pavano is interesting as it describes some of the problems he had last year.

This is the first time I've seen this mentioned.

There's probably a reason for that.

I kind of think its funny that the strained back turned Pavano almost exactly back into the pitcher he was before 04.

[utopiapkwy]

There's probably a reason for that.

I kind of think its funny that the strained back turned Pavano almost exactly back into the pitcher he was before 04.

Fair enough. When you are feeling less than perfect physically, it is very difficult to make a change like going to NY. Physically healthy and mentally more prepared, I think there is an above average chance that he wins 15 games. Plus he and Sturtze can talk each other off the ledge in their building.

[JeffWeaverFan]

Fair enough. When you are feeling less than perfect physically, it is very difficult to make a change like going to NY. Physically healthy and mentally more prepared, I think there is an above average chance that he wins 15 games.

Well he better learn to pitch in NY when he's less than perfect physically, because 1. Pitchers are rarely to never "perfect physically" and 2. Given Pavano's track record, he's always hurt. The problem with your second sentence is that there is a below average chance he will be physically healthy.

[Mark19]

So Carl strained his back and swtiched up his mechanics to compensate. This then resulted in him hurting his shoulder. One would think that some member of the coaching staff would have noticed if he changed his mechanics. Then again, Mel didn't seem to be noticing much of anything outside of his pitch clicker.

[Tifoso]

So Carl strained his back and swtiched up his mechanics to compensate. This then resulted in him hurting his shoulder. One would think that some member of the coaching staff would have noticed if he changed his mechanics. Then again, Mel didn't seem to be noticing much of anything outside of his pitch clicker.

Wow--you just asked and answered your own question.

[BronxByTheBay]

http://www.courant.com/sports/baseba...lines-baseball

Well, there goes the credibility of a few posters 'round these parts.

Here's to Carl and here's to a hopefully great season from him.

[flymick24]

Well, there goes the credibility of a few posters 'round these parts.

Here's to Carl and here's to a hopefully great season from him.

what exactly did he say that undermines posters' credibility?

i'm not a pavano hater by any means, but he's not going to come right out and say in an interview that he hated being in NY and would have liked to have been traded. it's called damage control.

as for his back problems, i obviously can't comment because i don't know the extent of his injury, but let's hope he's 100% for the start of the season. let's also hope that his shoulder holds up for 180-200 IP.

one thing that i can say though (and we can all agree with) is that he's pretty injury-prone.

[BronxByTheBay]

what exactly did he say that undermines posters' credibility?

There were a few who insisted that he

1.) faked his injury

2.) Wanted out of NY

They were proven wrong on both counts (their sniff test for the latter was for him to insist he wanted to stay here - he did that.)

Being wrong about Pavano isn't the credibility-shaker, it's the lack of sack to come forward and admit you were wrong.