Aggressiveness for top CFer

[ANSKYcm]

Is anyone else but me dissapointed by the lack of aggressiveness toward a top notch CFer? While I am one who actually wouldn't mind having Crosby starting in CF, I also think we should go after guys like Ichiro and Vernon Wells much more aggressively before we need to resort to that. For the first time since he's been here, there may be a chance of getting Ichiro. He would be perfect as a great defensive CF with a great arm and a great leadoff bat with great speed. Also, the Mariners are looking for pitching help while shopping Gil Meche. Why not offer something like Wang, Pavano, Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes, and money to cover some of Pavano's contract for Ichiro and Meche? The M's would get two pitchers for their rotation, a CF prospect to maybe take over for Ichiro in a year or two, and a great pitching prospect. I know noone wants to trade Wang, and I'm definetely gonna hear it for Hughes being there, but at least it brings up the fact that we could problably make a match with the M's for Ichiro.

[Michaels07]

It sounds more like a panic move.

[DJ27]

Welcome to the new NY Yankees offseason strategy!! Everyone has been asking for it and now that it is happening people are uncomfortable.

[JapanJobbers]

The Yankees already asked about Ichiro and were told that they are not going to trade him. I would imagine that it would be the same with Wells.

[Euclis]

I don't think any package [that would be offered] would be enough to entice Seattle to give up Ichiro. He is simply too valuable to that franchise, and I'm not just talking about on the field.

[ChrisV82]

Some caller on FAN today suggested the Yanks sign Pierre (or I guess trade for him), and if they like him, sign him as a free agent at the end of the season, and if not, let him go and pursue Andruw Jones or whomever else. Seems like it could work, but who knows?

[PerfectCone]

I've been campaigning for Pierre since last offseason. For some reason, most do not think of him as a good player. I believe he would be exactly what the Yankees need.

[AMYanks]

I've been campaigning for Pierre since last offseason. For some reason, most do not think of him as a good player. I believe he would be exactly what the Yankees need.

The Yankees don't need a bad hitting, poor fielding, weak armed CFer.

[nyg02005]

again, I hope cashman is more aggressive in finding relief pitchers.

[NelsonMuntz]

I've been campaigning for Pierre since last offseason. For some reason, most do not think of him as a good player. I believe he would be exactly what the Yankees need.

The last thing the Yankees need is a below average defensive centerfielder with a .326 OBP. We could get that (or better) from Bubba.

[Flatten78]

Welcome to the new NY Yankees offseason strategy!! Everyone has been asking for it and now that it is happening people are uncomfortable.

I couldn't have said it better myself. We were told this was coming way ahead of time.

[Flatten78]

All we should really be overly concerned about is our bullpen. Let Bubba start in center, all we need from him is his defense(we know he is solid defensively) and if he hits .250 we should be pleased with it. Let Phillips backup Giambi, and rotate them, when Giambi DH's Phillips plays first. One other thing we could possibly worry about is backup catcher, idk whats going on with that. Overall i feel ok with what we have, when was the last time the Yankees went into the following season without a major move, it's been a while.... We all wanted Cash back and now he is, im sure he has a plan in place, he knows what he is doing, everybody should relax.

[SoCal Pinstriper]

I'm in the "worried" about the bullpen camp. I'm really kind of proud of the restraint that we have shown so far in other areas.

[goin for 27]

The last thing the Yankees need is a below average defensive centerfielder with a .326 OBP. We could get that (or better) from Bubba.

I agree, except playing regularly, Bubba won't get a .326 OBP. Gotta get SOMEONE.

[RhodeyYankee2638]

I doubt Toronto would givee up Wells to a division rival, especially since they are blowing lots of money to try to contend, and they signed him relativly cheap for 5 years

[longtimeyankeefan]

Is anyone else but me dissapointed by the lack of aggressiveness toward a top notch CFer? While I am one who actually wouldn't mind having Crosby starting in CF, I also think we should go after guys like Ichiro and Vernon Wells much more aggressively before we need to resort to that. For the first time since he's been here, there may be a chance of getting Ichiro. He would be perfect as a great defensive CF with a great arm and a great leadoff bat with great speed. Also, the Mariners are looking for pitching help while shopping Gil Meche. Why not offer something like Wang, Pavano, Melky Cabrera, Phil Hughes, and money to cover some of Pavano's contract for Ichiro and Meche? The M's would get two pitchers for their rotation, a CF prospect to maybe take over for Ichiro in a year or two, and a great pitching prospect. I know noone wants to trade Wang, and I'm definetely gonna hear it for Hughes being there, but at least it brings up the fact that we could problably make a match with the M's for Ichiro.

Let me understand something here -

You are advocating sending Pavano, who had an admittedly depressing freshman year with the Yankees, Wang, who has shown he can pitch in NY while making the major league minimum, and our #1 & #3 prospects (according to PinstripePlus.com) to Seattle for an aging Ichiro and a career 44-36/4.70 pitcher whose stats are grossly influenced by pitching in Seattle (24-15/3.96 at Safeco vs 20-21/5.45 away from home)?

Boy, am I glad that Cashman is still in charge of the Yankee front office.

[ieddyi]

The Yankees don't need a bad hitting, poor fielding, weak armed CFer.

Yeah, we tried that last year- didn't work

[rightfielder21]

I've been campaigning for Pierre since last offseason. For some reason, most do not think of him as a good player.

The reasons have been well documented...

[rightfielder21]

Let me understand something here -

You are advocating sending Pavano, who had an admittedly depressing freshman year with the Yankees, Wang, who has shown he can pitch in NY while making the major league minimum, and our #1 & #3 prospects (according to PinstripePlus.com) to Seattle for an aging Ichiro and a career 44-36/4.70 pitcher whose stats are grossly influenced by pitching in Seattle (24-15/3.96 at Safeco vs 20-21/5.45 away from home)?

Yes, that appears to be it...

[longtimeyankeefan]

Yes, that appears to be it...

The question remains - WHY

I like Ichiro and think he might make a good addition to this team, although I worry about what will happen to the Japanese players as they age - there is no real history to be able to guage from, since Ichiro was the first position player to make it here in MLB.

Still, giving up two/fifths of your starting rotation and #1 & #3 prospects to fill a CF hole and get back a #4/#5 starter doesn't seem to be exactly the most sensible trade.

Menche ~= Pavano (given last season's #s), so Ichiro (who wants out of Seattle) = Wang + Hughes + Cabrera? I think not.

[TheScooter]

It won't be Damon

The Yankees obviously are interested in the younger, quicker Damon, but thus far have been scared away by Boras' quest for a deal that clones the one Bernie Williams received in 1999.

One Bomber executive observed: "Look at that contract, and see how we overpaid at the back end. We won't do that again"

Another official said the Yankees could be tempted to sign Damon to a four-year deal. Anything beyond that, however, seems non-negotiable. He said, "[Boras] has his head in the clouds" asking for such a mammoth commitment

Scotty is worried

Boras said, flatly, "I don't understand why [the Yankees] are looking at Giles."

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?...Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

[ring403]

Scotty is worried



Boras said, flatly, "I don't understand why [the Yankees] are looking at Giles."

Simple. Giles will sign a 3 year deal.

[BJG]

Both Wilkerson and Bradley are non-tender candidates. Why tip your hand? Wait to see who is really available.

[mrbawm]

It's November 26, everyone relax. This will be a much better offseason than last year even if we stand pat. That was a disaster we're still paying for.

[swityak11]

Vernon Wells isn't going to be available. He's signed to a very nice contract through 07 and is one of top offensive keys to that Blue Jay lineup. I see no reason for them to get rid of him.

[naugatucknugget]

I don't know what the contract situation is on Jay Payton but I think he would be a good fit as the Yankee centerfielder. Any comments?

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

If we get Wilkerson Giles or Bradley which seem to be the top 3 canidates right now id be pretty damn happy.

[ring403]

I don't know what the contract situation is on Jay Payton but I think he would be a good fit as the Yankee centerfielder. Any comments?

Oakland picked up Payton's $4 million option for 2006. I think he would be a consideration if the price was right, but there isn't alot of incentive for the A's to deal him.

[swityak11]

I don't know what the contract situation is on Jay Payton but I think he would be a good fit as the Yankee centerfielder. Any comments?

The A's picked up his $4 million option for 06.

I don't think Payton is a very good fit. He's mediocre defensively as a CF and his OBP has been steadily declinely for the past few years. It's now hovering well below league average.

[Evil Empire]

Why do we need Meche?

[ring403]

The A's picked up his $4 million option for 06.

I don't think Payton is a very good fit. He's mediocre defensively as a CF and his OBP has been steadily declinely for the past few years.

By what metric is Payton a below average CF?

[Mattpat11]

All we should really be overly concerned about is our bullpen. Let Bubba start in center, all we need from him is his defense(we know he is solid defensively) and if he hits .250 we should be pleased with it. Let Phillips backup Giambi, and rotate them, when Giambi DH's Phillips plays first. One other thing we could possibly worry about is backup catcher, idk whats going on with that. Overall i feel ok with what we have, when was the last time the Yankees went into the following season without a major move, it's been a while.... We all wanted Cash back and now he is, im sure he has a plan in place, he knows what he is doing, everybody should relax.

Do you really think the team could withstand the bats of both Phillips and Crosby every day? Hell, we don't even know what we're getting from Jorge.

[bobbymagee]

I disagree with the pursuit of a experienced, expensive centerfielder, and the loss of any prospects along with a young , playoff experienced pitcher, Carl Pavano. Obvious, the yanks must have a young fleet footed , competent hitter in our minors besides Bubba Gump!

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

Lets get us Vernon...

[ComeBackShane47]

Lets get us Vernon...

Wells might be one of the cheaper (relatively) options, unless the Phillies want to trade Abreu for him.

But as most have pointed out, its really stupid for us yankees fans to get so worried about all this now. The winter meetings havent happened, and we can be sure that plenty of quality guys wont be tendered contracts later on, so no need to panic.

[GrouchoNYY]

If you think that Bubba can play a top notch CF, then surround him with quality at all other positions. Don't give up the ranch just to get a "name" who may be no better than what you have. In addition, if some of the minor leaguers progress, a center fielder may be ready by sometime in 2007.

Here's a goofy name to bring in as dh/back up catcher--Mike Piazza. You could then have only Crosby as a weak hitter. Posada could dh occasionally when not catching.

When the non-tenders come in you can take a shot without losing anyone.

[swityak11]

By what metric is Payton a below average CF?

Checking out UZR numbers, it seems that I'm wrong. My fault.

[Munson's 'Stash]

Both Wilkerson and Bradley are non-tender candidates. Why tip your hand? Wait to see who is really available.

Bradley is a possible non-tender, but would you really want him in the Yankees clubhouse? Do you see Sheff keeping him in line?

I doubt Wilkerson is non-tendered; too many teams need CF's and value what he does. I'm sure another team would jump in and offer a B prospect just to make sure they got him. Isn't he also very popular in Washington? I doubt he'd just get kicked to the curb. Still, very little is going to happen before the meetings.

I love the Boras quote. It's almost like Marrie Antoinette asking what the peasants could possibly have to be upset about...

[NelsonMuntz]

I doubt Wilkerson is non-tendered; too many teams need CF's and value what he does. I'm sure another team would jump in and offer a B prospect just to make sure they got him. Isn't he also very popular in Washington? I doubt he'd just get kicked to the curb. Still, very little is going to happen before the meetings.

He's actually very under-appreciated in Washington. Jim Bowden has publicly stated his desire to acquire a "gold glove caliber" centerfiedler, whatever that means. Even more ridiculous, a lot of fans have bought into the notion that Wilkerson "strikes out too much". He's not as popular in DC as he was earlier in the season.

Edit: Here is a good article that speculates on the Nat's front office plans for Wilkerson: http://dcbb.blogspot.com/2005/11/spo...wilkerson.html

This isn't the first time that Wilkerson's been attacked anonymously. Yes, his season was disappointing. But throw him in the same bucket with Livan, Guzman, Vidro, Castilla, Wilson, and several others.

So why single him out?

To ship him out of town.

Wilkerson is arbitration-eligible. He made $3MM this year, and will probably be closer to $6 million next season, despite the disappointing numbers. Wilkerson will be a free agent in two years, and his agent, Scott Boras, doesn't understand the meaning of 'hometown' discount... Wilkerson isn't the toolsy, speedy kind of outfielder that Bowden lusts for. And given his down year and the potential cost next year, the tea leaves (or animal bones, if you prefer) are lining up.

[BJG]

Bradley is a possible non-tender, but would you really want him in the Yankees clubhouse? Do you see Sheff keeping him in line?

I doubt Wilkerson is non-tendered; too many teams need CF's and value what he does. I'm sure another team would jump in and offer a B prospect just to make sure they got him. Isn't he also very popular in Washington? I doubt he'd just get kicked to the curb. Still, very little is going to happen before the meetings.

I love the Boras quote. It's almost like Marrie Antoinette asking what the peasants could possibly have to be upset about...

Wilkerson made $3M last year and will get an arbitration raise. He's currently not penciled into the Nats' starting lineup. For a team with their kind of budget constraints, to not at least force them to make a tender decision on Wilkerson is jumping the gun.

[Munson's 'Stash]

He's actually very under-appreciated in Washington. Jim Bowden has publicly stated his desire to acquire a "gold glove caliber" centerfieler, whatever that means. Even more ridiculous, a lot of fans have bought into the notion that Wilkerson "strikes out too much". He's not as popular in DC as he was earlier in the season.

I knew that Bowden probably didn't value him (he of the 'tools' fixation), but I thought Wilkerson was still pretty popular with the fanbase. Oh well.

But that still doesn't invalidate my point; at least the Cubs and Red Sox still need a CF. Even if the Cubs (and Dusty Baker) don't value a player like Wilkerson, you know the RS do. Why wouldn't whoever's running their FO (the night janitor?) offer to trade a B prospect for Wilkerson? Hell, they could send Adam Stern (who if not a GG, at least has the speed and arm to play a good CF) over in trade. Bowden could satisfy his tools lust and call it a cost cutting move.

I don't see Bowden turning down something in order to get nothing.

[BJG]

I knew that Bowden probably didn't value him (he of the 'tools' fixation), but I thought Wilkerson was still pretty popular with the fanbase. Oh well.

But that still doesn't invalidate my point; at least the Cubs and Red Sox still need a CF. Even if the Cubs (and Dusty Baker) don't value a player like Wilkerson, you know the RS do. Why wouldn't whoever's running their FO (the night janitor?) offer to trade a B prospect for Wilkerson? Hell, they could send Adam Stern (who if not a GG, at least has the speed and arm to play a good CF) over in trade. Bowden could satisfy his tools lust and call it a cost cutting move.

I don't see Bowden turning down something in order to get nothing.

Because everyone is playing the same waiting game and not offering anything.

[Munson's 'Stash]

Because everyone is playing the same waiting game and not offering anything.

Care to bet that this changes between the start of the Meetings and the arb deadline?

[Kulish29]

I knew that Bowden probably didn't value him (he of the 'tools' fixation), but I thought Wilkerson was still pretty popular with the fanbase. Oh well.

But that still doesn't invalidate my point; at least the Cubs and Red Sox still need a CF. Even if the Cubs (and Dusty Baker) don't value a player like Wilkerson, you know the RS do. Why wouldn't whoever's running their FO (the night janitor?) offer to trade a B prospect for Wilkerson? Hell, they could send Adam Stern (who if not a GG, at least has the speed and arm to play a good CF) over in trade. Bowden could satisfy his tools lust and call it a cost cutting move.

I don't see Bowden turning down something in order to get nothing.

The Sox cant trade Stern. He wasnt on their ML roster long enough.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...sts/askba.html

A Rule 5 draftee must spend 90 days on the active roster before he can be demoted without being exposed to waivers. The Red Sox face that situation with 2004 draftee Adam Stern, who didn't quite make it to 90 days this year.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today...skbarule5.html

But here's the kicker: To prevent teams from drafting players willy-nilly, each Rule 5 pick must be kept in the major leagues the entire following season or be offered back to his former team for half of the $50,000 selection price.

[Munson's 'Stash]

The Sox cant trade Stern. He wasnt on their ML roster long enough.

Stern was one of the players rumored to be traded the Rockies in the deal for Bigbie that was cancelled (I believe it was supposed to work out to Stern, their catching prospect, and a minor league pitcher for Bigbie and Shealy).

I could be wrong, but I think there is a loophole that would allow for a player aquired through the Rule V draft to be traded; the condition is that the player must then complete the remaining service time requirement with his new team. In this case Stern would need to stay on the Nats ML roster for 18 days.

Even if I am wrong about Stern, and he can't be traded, it doesn't really disprove my point; he was a hypothetical example. Wilkerson is good enough that someone will offer up a B prospect for him to make sure that they get him if he's a target. If a player is healthy and any good he would have to have severe personality issues (like Milton Bradley, or AJ Perzynkwskcywz) to not at least warrant a low risk trade.

If Wilkerson were a target for the Red Sox they could throw another OF prospect at Bowden, say Moss. Do you think Bowden would turn down a prospect in order to just non-tender Wilkerson?

[Kulish29]

Stern was one of the players rumored to be traded the Rockies in the deal for Bigbie that was cancelled (I believe it was supposed to work out to Stern, their catching prospect, and a minor league pitcher for Bigbie and Shealy).

I could be wrong, but I think there is a loophole that would allow for a player aquired through the Rule V draft to be traded; the condition is that the player must then complete the remaining service time requirement with his new team. In this case Stern would need to stay on the Nats ML roster for 18 days.

Even if I am wrong about Stern, and he can't be traded, it doesn't really disprove my point; he was a hypothetical example. Wilkerson is good enough that someone will offer up a B prospect for him to make sure that they get him if he's a target. If a player is healthy and any good he would have to have severe personality issues (like Milton Bradley, or AJ Perzynkwskcywz) to not at least warrant a low risk trade.

If Wilkerson were a target for the Red Sox they could throw another OF prospect at Bowden, say Moss. Do you think Bowden would turn down a prospect in order to just non-tender Wilkerson?

Dont you think if the Sox offered a B prospect, the Yankees would come right back and offer a better one? The Sox just traded some of their best talent. I doubt they go and trade anymore.

[MTYankee23]

Dont you think if the Sox offered a B prospect, the Yankees would come right back and offer a better one? The Sox just traded some of their best talent. I doubt they go and trade anymore.

Their system right now is admittedly deeper. Which of our prospects at this point would you consider ahead of Brandon Moss, and do we think we'd trade away those prospects for someone who might become non-tendered. This is another situation where we've made mistakes by signing relivers and mediocre starters and giving up high draft picks in the process.

For example for this year's bullpen instead of signing the "proven veteran" reliever du jour. We'd be far better served looking for internal solutions and potentially looking forward to the callups of guys like Steven White and J.B. Cox to take on major bullepn roles. We have the most important piece in Rivera already in place.

[Munson's 'Stash]

Dont you think if the Sox offered a B prospect, the Yankees would come right back and offer a better one? The Sox just traded some of their best talent. I doubt they go and trade anymore.

The Red Sox have a much deeper farm system than the Yankees. I suggested Moss, who according to Sox Prospects is their #6 prospect (granted after jumping 2 spots), and he's already involved in trade rumors, which would seem to indicate that he's available.

If the Yankees turn it into a bidding war you'll have to top Moss, and that probably gets you upto Duncan, Hughes, and Melky pretty quick. That's a long way from picking up Wilkerson as a non-tender. Furthermore the idea that it's a bidding war implies that the Yankees aren't sitting around waiting to see what happens.

[RhodeyYankee2638]

I think Ruben Sierra should be our starting center fielder. He is like a gazelle

[MTYankee23]

I think Ruben Sierra should be our starting center fielder. He is like a gazelle

If by we you mean your slow pitch softball team, then yes, he should.