How About Soriano In Centerfield?

[The Q Bomb]

Let me preface this by saying I copied my post in another thread; I feel this might merit its own thread.

Has anyone thought about Soriano in centerfield?

I know it's been said (mostly by Michael Kay) that Soriano refuses to play centerfield - but since it's Michael Kay whose said it, I don't know how set in stone that may be. Now, I don't know that Soriano would want to play center or would be good in center - but I do think it is a possibility worth exploring. Here is my reasoning:

*The Rangers are known to want to unload Sori and Sori did love playing in The Bronx. We could probably get him for Aaron Small and a good minor league pitching prospect or perhaps Chin Meing Wang (since it looks like the Yankee FO is trying to move away from the "Let's Overpay Them Out Of The Goodness Of Our Hearts" mentality of the last several years.

*He will make a lot of money next year ($10 million I think) but that is the last year of his contract. If it doesn't work out - we are not tied into this arrangement long term.

*He did play the outfield (left field I think) for The Yanks in Spring Training in 2001 and did fairly well; whether that will translate to center, I don't know, but again, it is worth exploring.

*Soriano is a very good hitter with some weaknesses. He should continue to be good in our lineup which is almost as strong as the Texas' line-up. Although he did not steal many bases last year due to lingering leg problems, Soriano would inject much needed speed to our line-up.

*Soriano is still very popular in NY and would ad to the team's marketing efforts.

*Again, if it doesn't work out, Soriano's contract is up at the end of the 2006 season and we could look at other options. If it does work out we have a viable, popular, offensive centerfield for at least 4 or 5 years.

Again, I think it at least merits consideration.

[Sierra Mist]

we would have to give up too much for him in a trade. Maybe if he was a free agent he could come back.

[surge511]

I would see how 2006 goes, and if we need him when he's a free agent, then we can consider it. Maybe he would be willing to play right field...

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

nope, he is the most overrated hitter in baseball. He has some pop and speed but he has a .300 obp and if he cant play second i doubt he can play CF. Also you can expect his numbers to go down going from Texas to New York

[JavyVazquezIsSick]

The Yankee brass was quoted saying that they are trying to stay away from turning infielders into outfielders, like Furcal. They want an established CFer,..

[Kulish29]

nope, he is the most overrated hitter in baseball. He has some pop and speed but he has a .300 obp and if he cant play second i doubt he can play CF. Also you can expect his numbers to go down going from Texas to New York

Although I agree they shouldn't deal for him because he'd colst to much, I disagree that he cant play CF. He's fast enough to play out there and probably could be a GG winner with some time. It's a shame he wont try it. Good CF'ers are hard to come by, as we're finding out this offseason.

[Bernie Inferno]

It would take too much to get this overrated player.

[ring403]

Cashman already dismissed the notion of signing Rafael Furcal to "audition" as a CF. I seriously doubt they would consider an inferior defensive player in Soriano for the same audition.

[drjeckyl]

[QUOTE=The Q Bomb]
*Again, if it doesn't work out, Soriano's contract is up at the end of the 2006 season and we could look at other options. If it does work out we have a viable, popular, offensive centerfield for at least 4 or 5 years. [QUOTE]

To me Soriano would be a stopgap. I would hope we would find a real CFer before long.

[gszabo]

my concern w/soriano would be his defense, since the goal here is to improve CF defensively. i recall him being lousy on popups, so i wonder how he would be able to deal w/fly balls.

in other words, i would fear a repeat of the Mets' experiment w/Juan Samuel in CF in the 1980s. despite Samuel's speed, he was awful in terms of getting a bead on the ball.

but i didn't see Sori play OF in ST 2001 - torre & cashman presumably did, so if they saw something they liked, and a reasonable trade could be worked out, then maybe he'd be a good OF option. depending upon how things work out, maybe RF (ideally, I'd like Sheff/Giambi to share 1B/DH, and get the other off the field defensively)

[brosiusbuddy]

Has anyone thought about Soriano in centerfield?

.

Everyone has thought about this. People have been speculating about such a move since Soriano was traded for Arod.

Let me explain why its high risk, low reward.

1) Soriano is, and always has been an infielder, so there is no reason to believe he will be the solution to the CF problem. You cannot expect a player to be able to switch like that no matter how many homers he can hit.

2) Kay is not the only person to say that Soriano won't play center... Soriano has said it himself. If he would be willing to play centerfield, we would have seen him do it in Texas when they wanted to try that out.

3) If such a move is made and Soriano isn't a good outfielder, what then? There is no place else to put him but DH which I doubt he'd be happy playing DH and he'd probably try to demand time in the infield. Sori has one hell of a bat, but I for one do not want to see a situation where Sori pushes Cano out of his spot at 2b. We'd also be forced into putting Crosby in CF full time.

4) This is why it is low reward. He was, at best, average defensively at 2B. So, at this point in his career, if he were to be moved into CF, we have no reason to believe he will be more than average defensively there as well. I doubt we will see a career infielder make a transition to CF and turn into an all star defender. So even if he is capable, he will not be great, which is why the reward won't be great.

While Sori was a great player and a fan favorite in New York, he is not the right solution to CF. I think Cashman needs to focus on improving defense in centerfield first and foremost by finding a young, fast and proven OF defender. If he can find someone who meets that criteria AND can swing the bat, well thats just icing on the cake.

[longtimeyankeefan]

I doubt we will see a career infielder make a transition to CF and turn into an all star defender.

Robin Yount and Craig Biggio are just two examples of middle IFers who made the transition to the OF.

That having been said, I say no to this experiment. As others have stated, I would much rather we acquire someone with experience to play CF than try the "lets have a player change positions" merry-go-round looking for a CFer.

[brosiusbuddy]

Robin Yount and Craig Biggio are just two examples of middle IFers who made the transition to the OF.

.

They were both very good middle infielders. Sori is not a very good middle infielder

[JMAN74]

Everyone has thought about this. People have been speculating about such a move since Soriano was traded for Arod.

Let me explain why its high risk, low reward.

1) Soriano is, and always has been an infielder, so there is no reason to believe he will be the solution to the CF problem. You cannot expect a player to be able to switch like that no matter how many homers he can hit.

2) Kay is not the only person to say that Soriano won't play center... Soriano has said it himself. If he would be willing to play centerfield, we would have seen him do it in Texas when they wanted to try that out.

3) If such a move is made and Soriano isn't a good outfielder, what then? There is no place else to put him but DH which I doubt he'd be happy playing DH and he'd probably try to demand time in the infield. Sori has one hell of a bat, but I for one do not want to see a situation where Sori pushes Cano out of his spot at 2b. We'd also be forced into putting Crosby in CF full time.

4) This is why it is low reward. He was, at best, average defensively at 2B. So, at this point in his career, if he were to be moved into CF, we have no reason to believe he will be more than average defensively there as well. I doubt we will see a career infielder make a transition to CF and turn into an all star defender. So even if he is capable, he will not be great, which is why the reward won't be great.

While Sori was a great player and a fan favorite in New York, he is not the right solution to CF. I think Cashman needs to focus on improving defense in centerfield first and foremost by finding a young, fast and proven OF defender. If he can find someone who meets that criteria AND can swing the bat, well thats just icing on the cake.

4 is weak. ENtirely different positions requiring very different skills. Though I more or less agree with 1-3

[silverdsl]

I don't think it was long after Soriano joined the Rangers that he was asked to consider moving to the outfield and he refused. Now maybe he would change positions to come back to the Yankees but I don't think that's the ideal position he wants to play. And it seems to me that if a player doesn't really want to change positions that's going to effect how successfully they are able to make the transition. If Soriano comes back to the Yankees I don't think it will be as the long-term solution to centerfield.

-Deborah

[Sam18]

No.
He has a .320 career OBP which has been declining while playing in Texas. Oh yeah he's also gonna be 30 next year. Pass.

[AMYanks]

No.
He has a .320 career OBP which has been declining while playing in Texas. Oh yeah he's also gonna be 30 next year. Pass.

Indeed.

[rivera,s cutter]

Pass!!!!!

[Yankees13]

Let me preface this by saying I copied my post in another thread; I feel this might merit its own thread.

Has anyone thought about Soriano in centerfield?

I know it's been said (mostly by Michael Kay) that Soriano refuses to play centerfield - but since it's Michael Kay whose said it, I don't know how set in stone that may be. Now, I don't know that Soriano would want to play center or would be good in center - but I do think it is a possibility worth exploring. Here is my reasoning:

*The Rangers are known to want to unload Sori and Sori did love playing in The Bronx. We could probably get him for Aaron Small and a good minor league pitching prospect or perhaps Chin Meing Wang (since it looks like the Yankee FO is trying to move away from the "Let's Overpay Them Out Of The Goodness Of Our Hearts" mentality of the last several years.

*He will make a lot of money next year ($10 million I think) but that is the last year of his contract. If it doesn't work out - we are not tied into this arrangement long term.

*He did play the outfield (left field I think) for The Yanks in Spring Training in 2001 and did fairly well; whether that will translate to center, I don't know, but again, it is worth exploring.

*Soriano is a very good hitter with some weaknesses. He should continue to be good in our lineup which is almost as strong as the Texas' line-up. Although he did not steal many bases last year due to lingering leg problems, Soriano would inject much needed speed to our line-up.

*Soriano is still very popular in NY and would ad to the team's marketing efforts.

*Again, if it doesn't work out, Soriano's contract is up at the end of the 2006 season and we could look at other options. If it does work out we have a viable, popular, offensive centerfield for at least 4 or 5 years.

Again, I think it at least merits consideration.

It really depends on what it woudl take to get him.

[Vinny]

*Soriano is still very popular in NY and would ad to the team's marketing efforts.

Is that a pun?

[BJG]

The reason that Soriano is on the market is because he's going to make way too much in arbitration. I'd imagine there are probably better ways to spend $10M plus.

On a side note, there's no reason to believe that Soriano wouldn't be better at CF than he is at 2nd, but it's still all relative to his base ability.

[Rich]

The Rangers would have to take Wright or Pavano to offset Sori's salary.

[BJG]

The Rangers would have to take Wright or Pavano to offset Sori's salary.

They're trying to dump the salary, not offset it with a player who makes almost as much yet performs at a substantially lower level.

[Rich]

They're trying to dump the salary, not offset it with a player who makes almost as much yet performs at a substantially lower level.

I thought that dumping A-Rod's contract was going to enable them to spend more? In any event, the Yankees could offer to subsidize a portion of either contract.

[destro]

this doesnt make sense, we need to stop with this idea of converting infielders. we need areal center fielder

[BobbyMurcerFan]

this doesnt make sense, we need to stop with this idea of converting infielders. we need areal center fielder

AMEN!

STOP THE INSANITY!!!

Playing CF is REALLY DIFFICULT. Bernie still can't read the ball well of the bat. So how the do we know that Jeter, Furcal, Soriano, fill_in_infielder_w/_speed_and_can_catch_popups can?

Maybe one of these guys would become the next Willie Mays, but there is no credible way to predict that. We need someone who can already play CF now not someone who might be able to down the road w/ on the job training.

[BJG]

AMEN!

STOP THE INSANITY!!!

Playing CF is REALLY DIFFICULT. Bernie still can't read the ball well of the bat. So how the do we know that Jeter, Furcal, Soriano, fill_in_infielder_w/_speed_and_can_catch_popups can?

Maybe one of these guys would become the next Willie Mays, but there is no credible way to predict that. We need someone who can already play CF now not someone who might be able to down the road w/ on the job training.

Of course there's a credible way to predict it. The history of baseball shows that it's more likely that it's would work than that it wouldn't. You've got 100+ years of data to look at. Of course there are no guarentees, but if you limit yourself to lesser players simply because they've played cf in the past, then you get what you deserve when you lose. There's enough data and history to make a halfway decent prediction re how good any player will be following a position switch (again, no gaurentee, but you can make a prediction). Say, based on that prediction, that you think SS A will be 5 runs better than average in CF. You already know what SS A does with the bat relative to CFs, so say that is 10 runs better than average. The resultant player, we can predict, would be 15 runs better than the average CF. If I had to choose between that player and a market where my only choice was a dead average CF, I might think that the potential for 15 runs is worth the risk. Heck, my defensive prediction could be off and SS A could actually be 10 runs worse than average defensively and I'd still break even over my other choice.

[BobbyMurcerFan]

Of course there's a credible way to predict it. The history of baseball shows that it's more likely that it's would work than that it wouldn't. You've got 100+ years of data to look at....

Right... please tell what DEFENSIVE metric with any reliability has been calculated for the last hundred years?

If you are aruging that even if the guy sucks in the field, his bat will more than make up for it, you are forgetting that playing the field affects hitting. A-Rod said he had a down year (for him, LOL) last year b/c he was learning a new position. And this year Womack's already meager production took a death dive when he was moved to the OF.

[BJG]

Right... please tell what DEFENSIVE metric with any reliability has been calculated for the last hundred years?

If you are aruging that even if the guy sucks in the field, his bat will more than make up for it, you are forgetting that playing the field affects hitting. A-Rod said he had a down year (for him, LOL) last year b/c he was learning a new position. And this year Womack's already meager production took a death dive when he was moved to the OF.

1. It doesn't have to be 100% accurate if all you are trying to do is calculate basic risk and reward. If there appears to be a big gap, there might be a worthwhile risk.

2. Womack also improved offensively the first year he moved to the OF in 1999. Sheff improved when he moved from short to third. He improved again when he moved from third to the outfield. See, I can cherry pick too. Maybe we should both stop and make the logical conclusion that there's no correlation between changing position and offensive performance.

[nyctalopia]

why does nobody ever take the 5 seconds it requires to figure out how to spell Wang's name properly?

[jimmyclark]

I would not do it. Some infielders have made the adjustment like Yount and Biggio. But they were good defensively to start with. Others that have failed have been Soriano-like poor defensively: Juan Samuel and Howard Johnson. If you have a poor defensive infielder, what makes you think he will be a good defensive center fielder? Yount also the incentive that he had a bad shoulder and was moved to reduce the number of throws he would have to make.
Why not try Bubba Crosby at center and monitor the youngsters like Cabrera? Let's avoid the breaking down-I want big money Johnny Damon and the headcases like Milton Bradley. Wait for a good defensive CF to become available.

[gszabo]

the thing about soriano is that he doesn't seem to learn/improve. for example, he still styles when he hits a long fly ball that he thinks is a HR, turning triples into singles/doubles. Despite natural skills such as range, speed, and a good arm, he doesn't seem to have improved defensively. And as a hitter, he's still not selective - his OBP has actually decreased since going to Texas!

Basically, the guy's really not improved in any of these areas in his 5 years in MLB. So how likely is he to learn the new set of skills/techniques that would make for a strong defensive center fielder?

[BobbyMurcerFan]

the thing about soriano is that he doesn't seem to learn/improve. for example, he still styles when he hits a long fly ball that he thinks is a HR, turning triples into singles/doubles. Despite natural skills such as range, speed, and a good arm, he doesn't seem to have improved defensively. And as a hitter, he's still not selective - his OBP has actually decreased since going to Texas!

Basically, the guy's really not improved in any of these areas in his 5 years in MLB. So how likely is he to learn the new set of skills/techniques that would make for a strong defensive center fielder?

Makes me scratch my head too.

[HughesIsNasty]

pavano for soriano is the onyl deal id do and texas will NEVER do that

[yankees76]

Soriano in CF would be a nightmare. At least when he is at 2B, he has someone backing him up in RF when he falls asleep during the game. Didn't the Yankees used to have Jeter chattering at him all game to keep him alert? We would have to add some of the bleacher creatures to the payroll just to keep him awake out there.

[MisterNovember]

*The Rangers are known to want to unload Sori and Sori did love playing in The Bronx. We could probably get him for Aaron Small and a good minor league pitching prospect or perhaps Chin Meing Wang (since it looks like the Yankee FO is trying to move away from the "Let's Overpay Them Out Of The Goodness Of Our Hearts" mentality of the last several years.

Aaron Small and a Sean Henn type for Soriano? Not a CHANCE that Texas would do that. We would essentially have traded a marginal prospect and a career AAAA player for Alex Rodriguez.

[Yankee Clipper]

We got rid of Soriano because he stunk it up in the playoffs in 03. Do you guys really want a repeat of the guy who swings like Vlad, but doesn't hit everything like Vlad?

[Tifoso]

We got rid of Soriano because he stunk it up in the playoffs in 03. Do you guys really want a repeat of the guy who swings like Vlad, but doesn't hit everything like Vlad?

and walks 1 time per season...in a good year

[Jasbro]

We got rid of Soriano because he stunk it up in the playoffs in 03. Do you guys really want a repeat of the guy who swings like Vlad, but doesn't hit everything like Vlad?

Actually, we traded Soriano because we got the best player in baseball back in return, not because of his playoff performance.

[Yankee Clipper]

Actually, we traded Soriano because we got the best player in baseball back in return, not because of his playoff performance.

Yeah but we were fed up with his unwillingness to change his game and as a result we got ARod. He was involved in the deal because we got the best player and because he couldn't hit jack in the playoffs.

[The Q Bomb]

Wow! I guess I'm the only one who thinks that Soriano in CF for The Yanks MIGHT be something worth considering.

I agree with the forumer who said it's not good to have a team full of guys playing out of position. I actually don't like to see any player asked to play out of position. Alex Rodriguez is the rare case when a player transitions to a different position and actually excels at it. However, with Soriano, I thought that since he did play the outfield in spring training (albeit several years ago) and the general consensus at the time was that he did so very well, it might be worth considering. If he is not enthused about it - no, it doesn't make sense.

And apparently, from the comments in this thread - he is a pretty shabby hitter too. I must have seen a pretty different Soriano. I saw a guy who, although he had his faults at the plate (namely the low outside pitch) was a pretty good hitter with very good power. I saw a player who created some unease for the pitcher while on the basepaths. Granted, I saw a hitter who turned a few triples into doubles, and still admired (what he thought were) his homeruns, and who had some very silly at-bats, but I still think of him as a way better than average offensive player. And just for the record, I also must be the only one who thought he was not a terrible second baseman. He was certainly not one of the best - but far from terrible. I must need glasses.

[longtimeyankeefan]

Wow! I guess I'm the only one who thinks that Soriano in CF for The Yanks MIGHT be something worth considering.

I agree with the forumer who said it's not good to have a team full of guys playing out of position. I actually don't like to see any player asked to play out of position. Alex Rodriguez is the rare case when a player transitions to a different position and actually excels at it. However, with Soriano, I thought that since he did play the outfield in spring training (albeit several years ago) and the general consensus at the time was that he did so very well, it might be worth considering. If he is not enthused about it - no, it doesn't make sense.

And apparently, from the comments in this thread - he is a pretty shabby hitter too. I must have seen a pretty different Soriano. I saw a guy who, although he had his faults at the plate (namely the low outside pitch) was a pretty good hitter with very good power. I saw a player who created some unease for the pitcher while on the basepaths. Granted, I saw a hitter who turned a few triples into doubles, and still admired (what he thought were) his homeruns, and who had some very silly at-bats, but I still think of him as a way better than average offensive player. And just for the record, I also must be the only one who thought he was not a terrible second baseman. He was certainly not one of the best - but far from terrible. I must need glasses.

I guess that it would depend upon the price of Soriano, but I have no problems with the idea of Sori coming back to play CF.

Had Soriano stayed with the Yankees, he likely would have been moved off of 2B to make room for Cano, so a position change almost certainly would have happened at some point in time.

But, again, what will the price be? Remember, if the Rangers send him back to the Yankees for chump change, then the deal becomes, in essence, ARod for chump change. Are we willing to give up an Eric Duncan and a Phillip Hughes to get Sori back?

[JMAN74]

Wow! I guess I'm the only one who thinks that Soriano in CF for The Yanks MIGHT be something worth considering.

I agree with the forumer who said it's not good to have a team full of guys playing out of position. I actually don't like to see any player asked to play out of position. Alex Rodriguez is the rare case when a player transitions to a different position and actually excels at it. However, with Soriano, I thought that since he did play the outfield in spring training (albeit several years ago) and the general consensus at the time was that he did so very well, it might be worth considering. If he is not enthused about it - no, it doesn't make sense.

And apparently, from the comments in this thread - he is a pretty shabby hitter too. I must have seen a pretty different Soriano. I saw a guy who, although he had his faults at the plate (namely the low outside pitch) was a pretty good hitter with very good power. I saw a player who created some unease for the pitcher while on the basepaths. Granted, I saw a hitter who turned a few triples into doubles, and still admired (what he thought were) his homeruns, and who had some very silly at-bats, but I still think of him as a way better than average offensive player. And just for the record, I also must be the only one who thought he was not a terrible second baseman. He was certainly not one of the best - but far from terrible. I must need glasses.

Agree with everything you said EXCEPT for his glove at second. While terrible is a strong word, he misplayed a lot of groundballs (usually would squirt under him) that many other second basers would have scooped up. He was not very good with the glove at all.

In any event I think he'd make a credible CF. Not my first option but he certainly isn't chopped liver and the upside with his athletisicm is pretty darn good.

[yanksphan]

Wow! I guess I'm the only one who thinks that Soriano in CF for The Yanks MIGHT be something worth considering.

No...apparantly the Yankees think so too - but the asking price starts with Wang or Cano...according to Heyman.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/printe...y-sports-print

When the Yankees inquired about Alfonso Soriano as a centerfield option, the Rangers requested Cano and/or Wang, halting talks.

[BobbyMurcerFan]

Actually, we traded Soriano because we got the best player in baseball back in return, not because of his playoff performance.

Thanks for being at that meeting.

[Johnny O]

No on Soriano.

[Sam18]

Yeah but we were fed up with his unwillingness to change his game and as a result we got ARod. He was involved in the deal because we got the best player and because he couldn't hit jack in the playoffs.

I'm pretty sure even if Soriano had won the WS MVP, the Yankees would've traded him for A-rod.

[surge511]

Wait on Soriano until next offseason when he will be a freeagent.

[drjeckyl]

Wait on Soriano until next offseason when he will be a freeagent.

wait on him to play what position?

[Sam18]

Wait on Soriano until next offseason when he will be a freeagent.

I wouldn't sign him.