CF Possibilities for 2006 (merged)

[justinvarnes]

(Mods, if this is superfluous then you can dump it, I just thought I'd try and corral the numerous threads about individual outfielders into one discussion)

Here is a list of possible CF'ers the Yankees could acquire by Spring Training:

(In no particular order)



NAME POS. STATUS AGE OPS* ZR* COMMENTS

Jacque Jones CF-RF FA 31 .782 .880 solid/not great

Torri Hunter CF TRADE 31 .803 .900 ??ankle injury??

Johnny Damon CF FA 32 .802 .892 older/no arm/leadoff

Brian Giles RF-LF FA 35 .936 .894 older/great #2 hitter

Juan Pierre CF TRADE 28 .717 .872 young/fast

Richard Hidalgo RF FA 31 .770 .883 Inconsistent


*2002-2005


NOTES:
#1 Feel free to add others to the list. I left off the Andruw Jones's and Baldelli's as I find them highly unlikely candidates due their team's and the Yankee's financial and trade situations.

#2 Couldn't dig up UZR, so I used ZR over the last 3 years to avoid any earlier numbers that would mark inexperience or youth...i.e. you shouldn't use Bernie's ZR from 1999

#3 Age is at time of Spring Training give or take a few months.

[Fabien Brandy]

Lew Ford is rumored to be on the way out in Minnesota (inching up in salary; Gardenhire benched him late in year). Could be a one-year filler.

Or a platoon situation with Jody Gerut, whose 2005 was marred by playing time issues and last September's ACL surgery.

I say add those two to Matsui and Sheffield in a nice mix.

[Evil Empire]

I like Moving matsui to center, signing Giles for a short term deal, and then bring up Melky for left field or something.

[justinvarnes]

OK, Dug up some other numbers:

Some Centerfielders' UZR numbers from 2000-2003 (from Snatch Catch)

Damon +19

Hunter +5

Pierre +5


(for comparison's sake)

Beltran +4
Andruw Jones + 15

Although Damon seems to be the clear favorite in UZR, one must also keep in mind that this doesn't include the last 2 seasons where he seemed to have slowed down. and the extra bases people take on Damon MUST be considered.

Interesting that Beltran and Hunter have virtually the same UZR...since last year everyone talked about Beltran being the answer in CF and now Hunter is talked about as (yawn) average.

Seems to me both of them are a little above average, with Beltran being the better hitter and being younger (of course).

[MassNYYfan]

Damon was + 6 in 2004 according to this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...bob&id=2156146

Damon has only an average arm, but he's still a more valuable commodity in the field. In 2004, he had an Ultimate Zone Rating (the Sabermetric measuring stick for the number of balls fielded in a player's zone) of plus-6. Williams was a minus-44, which is to say, the difference in the balls Damon caught and Williams didn't was worth 50 runs.

FWIW.

[AMYanks]

Jones for CF, Giles for RF, Sheff to DH.

[yankeefan in MA]

Lew Ford is rumored to be on the way out in Minnesota (inching up in salary; Gardenhire benched him late in year). Could be a one-year filler.

Or a platoon situation with Jody Gerut, whose 2005 was marred by playing time issues and last September's ACL surgery.

I say add those two to Matsui and Sheffield in a nice mix.

I think Lew Ford is a solid player. I think MN would be crazy not to keep him. I hope you are right.

[justinvarnes]

Thanks, that's what I suspected.

It seems to me that of the CF's available, they all play a similar outfield in terms of range.

some have better arms than others (J. Jones and Hunter=good, Pierre and Damon = bad)

Kotsay, Cameron and Andruw seem to be the best fielding CF's out there, but unfortunately they're nto available.

hmm, maybe Cameron could be....

[justinvarnes]

Jones for CF, Giles for RF, Sheff to DH.

Wow. I like that. for ALOT of reasons.

[surge511]

I think Lew Ford is a solid player. I think MN would be crazy not to keep him. I hope you are right.

I like the idea of a RF/DH Sheff/Giles. Giles has always been one of my favorite players. I bet George likes him too, so he probably will be a Yankee. My #1 outfield choice is still Baldelli though, I think he could really turn into a bigtime player, and there is now at least the possibility of prying him away from Tampa Bay.

[27IsNext]

Mike Cameron: great defender, .896 OPS outside of Shea Stadium.

[dabomb2045]

I agree with a few others....Jones in CF, Giles in RF, Sheff DH

you can also give Matsui a few days at DH...by sliding Giles to LF and Sheff to RF

[flymick24]

jones is CF scares me. i know his UZR rating isn't that bad as a CFer, but i've personally seen him play the field on a few occassions and he doesn't get very good breaks on fly balls. plus, his arm is very weak.

as much as it pains me to say it, i think the yankees would be better suited with matsui in center, and giles and jones flanking him.

of course, i don't think giles will come to NY, but that's a totally different issue altogether.

[AMYanks]

Mike Cameron: great defender, .896 OPS outside of Shea Stadium.

Cameron would be nice, but what would you give up for him? Sheffield for Cameron and Petit, then sign Giles to replace Sheff?

[Steph19]

Cameron would be nice, but what would you give up for him? Sheffield for Cameron and Petit, then sign Giles to replace Sheff?

I don't know if the Mets want Sheffield. They might want to play Victor Diaz every day in RF.

[flymick24]

I don't know if the Mets want Sheffield. They might want to play Victor Diaz every day in RF.

that would be foolish. he's a AAAA player.

[AMYanks]

I don't know if the Mets want Sheffield. They might want to play Victor Diaz every day in RF.

Perhaps, but I think Minaya would listen.

[justinvarnes]

RE: Jones's arm. It's my understanding that it's not WEAK, just inaccurate.

Also I like Giles, but his age and price tag concerns me. a 2 year deal would be ideal, and I can't imagine him not fleecing the yankees for more.

however, Sheff to DH DOES help alot.

[Vin]

Jacque Jones.

[Stealthspy]

You've got to be crazy to say that Hunter is slightly above average. IMO, UZR is only important for determining the approximate quality of the fielder, not necessarily for comparison's sake. For example, it is my opinion that Andruw Jones is the best CF of the last decade. Does UZR reflect it? No. Does UZR refute it? No. Therefore I take the UZR only half seriously.

Back to my point, Hunter is a very good center fielder. He gets excellent jumps and his speed allows him to cover loads of ground and has a strong, accurate arm. He supplants all of this with his spectacular glovework and outstanding hustle. Barry Bonds' home run ball that was robbed of clearing the fence a few years back in the all star game comes to mind.

Pierre is a true speedster, but he doesn't get the type of elite jumps that put him up at the top of the pile. He makes up for his mistakes with speed. His glovework is decent, his arm forgettable, and his hustle is pretty good. Overall, he's a Bernie in the outfield (in his prime).

Cameron is a very good CF, who ranks just below the top. He gets good jumps, has good speed, and a pretty accurate arm. J. Jones is not a CF, he's a corner outfielder shaded very far in . Giles is aging, and I don't like his defense. Good hustle, but he'll slip off faster than sheff. Damon is Damon. Good bat, but aging and I strongly doubt he'd fit in well in the clubhouse. Plus, he makes downright bonehead plays in the outfield sometimes, and his arm can actually offset his well above average range.

In my opinion I'd love Hunter. Great team player, great hustle, and although he isn't the best hitter for average, he is clutch. He posesses all the qualities I love in the outfield (think second best defender in the league), and he'll probably come cheaper. He's a better player in almost every way compared to cameron. Getting Hunter would keep Matsui in LF, where he is better suited (assuming we resign him), and we could get a solid platoon going with someone and sheffield, Sheffield playing DH when he's off and Giambi DHing when he's on.

[Sam18]

I agree with a few others....Jones in CF, Giles in RF, Sheff DH

you can also give Matsui a few days at DH...by sliding Giles to LF and Sheff to RF

Best possible solution and won't cost that much.

[SouthbayyankeeD]

I don't know if the Mets want Sheffield. They might want to play Victor Diaz every day in RF.

Remember when Sheffield heard that rumor back in July. He went apesh*t. Let's kill that talk right now. While we are at it,let's kill the Giles to NY rumor as well. Giles wants to stay in Southern California. He'd accept a deal to the Angels before he would come to NY.

I think the Yanks should go to spring training with a plan of letting Bubba and Melky fight it out. You don't need much offense from them, just good defense. I think Melky was a bit overwhelmed his first time up. I think if he plays winter ball in the Caribbean, he will have his confidence back. To sppend money o9n Jacque Jones is foolhardy.

[CTyankeefan]

It has to be Tori Hunter at almost all cost.

How about Henn, Proctor and Melkey Cabrera for Tori?

Fair trade, Twins get major league bullpen help, a near major league ready pitching talent and a minor leaguer with some potential.

Yanks get a stud Center fielder who can catch and throw:

Of all the people on the list I want Hunter.

Yanks need a centre fielder that can throw:

This eliminated Pierre and Johnny Damon.

Pierre and especially Damon would electrify this offense.

1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. A-Rod
4. Giambi
5. Sheff
6. Matsui
7. Posoda
8. Cano
9. DH spot open for rotating tired players

That would be a devastating offense.

But Damon, Pierre can't throw.

I would trade for Tori Hunter and sign Brian Giles and move Sheff to DH.

[CTyankeefan]

Remember when Sheffield heard that rumor back in July. He went apesh*t. Let's kill that talk right now. While we are at it,let's kill the Giles to NY rumor as well. Giles wants to stay in Southern California. He'd accept a deal to the Angels before he would come to NY.

I think the Yanks should go to spring training with a plan of letting Bubba and Melky fight it out. You don't need much offense from them, just good defense. I think Melky was a bit overwhelmed his first time up. I think if he plays winter ball in the Caribbean, he will have his confidence back. To sppend money o9n Jacque Jones is foolhardy.

Bubba and Melkey?

No thanks. Bubba isn't a major leaguer and I didn't like Melkey. I saw Melkkey a couple of times this year when Trenton came through Connecticut, and Melkey is perhaps an average prospect at best.

[GimeMoMuny]

Remember when Sheffield heard that rumor back in July. He went apesh*t. Let's kill that talk right now. While we are at it,let's kill the Giles to NY rumor as well. Giles wants to stay in Southern California. He'd accept a deal to the Angels before he would come to NY.

Sheff said he would play elsewhere, so there's no reason to kill anything. What he basically said was that he would want more money (an extension) to make him happy. He really doesn't make that call, though. If the Yankees want to trade him, they can.

[mickey mantle]

Jones for CF, Giles for RF, Sheff to DH.

sounds good to me too. will matt lawton still be on the team next year or is he gone? im not suggesting he start, just wondering.

[Yankee Clipper]

How about Juan Encarnacion? He's young, cheap, and would be a vast improvement defensively. Sign him for 2-3 years to bridge for either Melky or someone else.

[Stan Musial]

No way Giles goes to Gotham in 2006.

He is a self-avowed West Coast guy..and I am fairly sure that NY is the antithesis of what he wants.

If I were the Yankees, I'd be looking at Encarnacion or talking to Tampa about Huff and re-sign Matsui.

As for Giles...pipe-dream.

[Rich]

No way Giles goes to Gotham in 2006.

He is a self-avowed West Coast guy..and I am fairly sure that NY is the antithesis of what he wants.

If I were the Yankees, I'd be looking at Encarnacion or talking to Tampa about Huff and re-sign Matsui.

As for Giles...pipe-dream.

Many viewed A-Rod as a pipe dream too, and he wasn't a FA. Money and the opportunity to end one's career with the franchise that has the most storied history in MLB history has can influence anyone.

[Stan Musial]

Many viewed A-Rod as a pipe dream too, and he wasn't a FA. Money and the opportunity to end one's career with the franchise that has the most storied history in MLB history has can influence anyone.

True, but, and forgive me for saying this, I think A-Rod is more of a mercenary than Giles. After the trade to the Red Sux didnt go down..I knew George & Co. would be on him like white on rice.

I see these as very different. I think Giles is happy in SD..and if not for him, SD has no marquee players. I think they must, as a priority, resign him. Or at least..have him come to the Cardinals.

[yankeetke]

I am pretty sure that the Yankees were included in his limited no trade clause when he was with the Pirates. If that is the case then why would he sign with the Yankees if he wouldnt even accept a trade to us.

[Stan Musial]

I am pretty sure that the Yankees were included in his limited no trade clause when he was with the Pirates. If that is the case then why would he sign with the Yankees if he wouldnt even accept a trade to us.

Exactly...good point.

[Rich]

True, but, and forgive me for saying this, I think A-Rod is more of a mercenary than Giles. After the trade to the Red Sux didnt go down..I knew George & Co. would be on him like white on rice.

I see these as very different. I think Giles is happy in SD..and if not for him, SD has no marquee players. I think they must, as a priority, resign him. Or at least..have him come to the Cardinals.

Even if I grant your point, money was not the most significant factor in completing the trade to the Yankees; he was guaranteed $25 million per year even if he remained in Texas. Moreover, he had to sacrifice his historic path to becoming the best SS who ever played the game to come here.

My only point is that there may well be a reasonable chance for Giles to agree to sign here, and that we won't know until he turns them down.

[JeffWeaverFan]

If Hunter was a FA, then no doubt, he'd be the guy I would want. But, he's the face of that franchise (well, Santana is but Hunter is #2) and therefore would be costly to get. And, as someone that wants to rebuild the farm, not kill it more, I am completely against that. The Yankees, with our economic advantages, should not only have a great team, but a great farm system. Continuing to trade away the farm will be the downfall of this team.

Anyways, there just really aren't many good FA CFers available. So, my vote is to get Jacque Jones to play the position. I don't think it would take more than two years with an option for a third at maybe $6 million per to get the guy, which isn't bad. And, after that contract, hopefully Brett Gardner will be ready or Melky will be ready as a centerfielder.

[Stan Musial]

Even if I grant your point, money was not the most significant factor in completing the trade to the Yankees; he was guaranteed $25 million per year even if he remained in Texas. Moreover, he had to sacrifice his historic path to becoming the best SS who ever played the game to come here.

My only point is that there may well be a reasonable chance for Giles to agree to sign here, and that we won't know until he turns them down.

And..I can agree to that as well. However, Texas wanted to dump him..he knew it..they knew, heck, everyone knew it. Realistically, only 2 teams could afford his salary..and one of them couldnt get the deal done. I think everyone knew after that he would be a Yankee.

Back to Giles..there is always a chance, I just think it is a pretty slim one. Plus, he's getting up there in age. Wouldnt it be better to trade for a younger cheaper CF with potential upside rather than give a 3-year deal to a 35-36 y.o.?

[Rich]

And..I can agree to that as well. However, Texas wanted to dump him..he knew it..they knew, heck, everyone knew it. Realistically, only 2 teams could afford his salary..and one of them couldnt get the deal done. I think everyone knew after that he would be a Yankee.

Back to Giles..there is always a chance, I just think it is a pretty slim one. Plus, he's getting up there in age. Wouldnt it be better to trade for a younger cheaper CF with potential upside rather than give a 3-year deal to a 35-36 y.o.?

If possible, I would like to trade Sheffield in a package for Vernon Wells or Aaron Rowand, as Joel Sherman suggested in his column, but I am skeptical about whether that can be done.

I don't want to trade prospects for mediocre all around players, like Pierre, or Hunter, and I definitely don't want to want to sign Damon.

[BillBuckner]

Honestly, why is everyone so anti-Juan Pierre? I have always been impressed with this guy. He's under 30, ultra-fast, has good experience playing CF, a career .300 hitter, and steals a $hit load of bases. I say he's the guy we sign to be the bridge for one of our younger guys in the farm system to develope within the next 2-3 years.

Career: 3411 AB 1040 Hits .305 AVG 226 BB .355 OBP 267 SB (65 in 2003).

[JeffWeaverFan]

Back to Giles..there is always a chance, I just think it is a pretty slim one. Plus, he's getting up there in age. Wouldnt it be better to trade for a younger cheaper CF with potential upside rather than give a 3-year deal to a 35-36 y.o.?

Giles is 34, although he will be 35 to start next season. And, I'm pretty sure that Rich would sign him as a RFer, not a CFer, so that Sheff can DH.

[JeffWeaverFan]

Honestly, why is everyone so anti-Juan Pierre? I have always been impressed with this guy. He's under 30, ultra-fast, has good experience playing CF, a career .300 hitter, and steals a $hit load of bases. I say he's the guy we sign to be the bridge for one of our younger guys in the farm system to develope within the next 2-3 years.

Career: 3411 AB 1040 Hits .305 AVG 226 BB .355 OBP 267 SB (65 in 2003).

My quick answer is that he relies incredibly on his speed for his batting average. Speed is the first thing that goes with a player, and when just a tiny bit of his speed is lost, that affects him as a player much more than anyone else. My guess is that he will start his decline very soon (if it didn't already this year).

[BillBuckner]

My quick answer is that he relies incredibly on his speed for his batting average. Speed is the first thing that goes with a player, and when just a tiny bit of his speed is lost, that affects him as a player much more than anyone else. My guess is that he will start his decline very soon (if it didn't already this year).

Perhaps, but like I said, I dont think he'll be a long term solution. Just 1-2-3 years. To tell you the truth, I'd take him over Jones or Giles. Without question.

[Thurman15]

Anyone by Johnny Damon.
We need to get younger, not older.

[JeffWeaverFan]

Perhaps, but like I said, I dont think he'll be a long term solution. Just 1-2-3 years. To tell you the truth, I'd take him over Jones or Giles. Without question.

Well, there are a couple problems with that. 1. He's not a FA so we would have to trade for him. 2. If we signed him next year, when he is a FA, it would take a pretty long deal.

[Rich]

Giles is 34, although he will be 35 to start next season. And, I'm pretty sure that Rich would sign him as a RFer, not a CFer, so that Sheff can DH.

Yes, no way Giles would play CF here.

[Sam18]

Perhaps, but like I said, I dont think he'll be a long term solution. Just 1-2-3 years. To tell you the truth, I'd take him over Jones or Giles. Without question.

Why would you take Pierre over Giles for a shorterm solution? Giles is miles ahead of Pierre as a hitter.

[Brent]

Jones for CF, Giles for RF, Sheff to DH.

if you could do that, Bring back Matsui and Gordon, and lure BJ Ryan and bring up Matt Smith Id be so f'ing happy.

then you could rotate the outfielders and get some people some time at DH

[Rich]

Honestly, why is everyone so anti-Juan Pierre? I have always been impressed with this guy. He's under 30, ultra-fast, has good experience playing CF, a career .300 hitter, and steals a $hit load of bases. I say he's the guy we sign to be the bridge for one of our younger guys in the farm system to develope within the next 2-3 years.

Career: 3411 AB 1040 Hits .305 AVG 226 BB .355 OBP 267 SB (65 in 2003).

Because he isn't a good hitter or a good fielder:

Since he was 24:

EQA:

2002: .234

2003: .272

2004: .276

2005: .256

RAA:

2002: 5

2003: -14

2004: -11

2005: -6

As for his base stealing, he gets thrown out way too often:

Career:

SB: 267

CS: 96

[NYDCYankee]

If we can't snag a young cheap player (value/player wise); Nook Logan, Ryan Church, Brad Wilkerson, so one along those lines, then I don't want to trade the Cano's and Wang's of the world for Hunter or Wells. I think we are gonna overpay for Damon, it is the easiest alternative.

[Stan Musial]

Giles is 34, although he will be 35 to start next season. And, I'm pretty sure that Rich would sign him as a RFer, not a CFer, so that Sheff can DH.

Then who plays center? Bernie will be gone...so, Sheff is going to need to play RF, and unless you intend to play Crosby full-time, the Yankees are going to need a CF'er..who I assume would be Giles.

[Sam18]

Then who plays center? Bernie will be gone...so, Sheff is going to need to play RF, and unless you intend to play Crosby full-time, the Yankees are going to need a CF'er..who I assume would be Giles.

Sign Jaque Jones to play CF.

[27IsNext]

Assuming we can't get Giles...what's the opinion on signing Juan Encarnacion, and trading Sheff for a CFer? I know his career OBP is ugly, but it was around .350 this year. Don't people start taking walks more when they reach their 30s, or am I imagining having heard that? Encarnacion plays a good RF. Trading Sheff for a CFer and signing a RFer opens up the option of getting Bengie Molina or Ramon Hernandez, putting Posada at DH and negating the "ABs as a catcher" clause that triggers that rediculous option.

I would also not be opposed to re-signing Lawton. That career .387 OBP would do well in the two-hole. I really think Lawton's problem this year was being moved around so much during the season, and the incident with his family and Katrina. I fully expect his numbers next year to be more in line with his career averages.