The Baltimore Orioles Thread (merged)

[sweet_lou_14]

Probably not as disruptive as you are trying to imply, since catchers were able to throw him out at such a high rate.

I would be truly shocked if more than, say, 10 of those 33 runs could be shown to be runs that would not have scored had the other player been left in. (Yes, fallacy of the predetermined outcome plays a role here, but you'd have no choice but to try to figure that out.)

You'd then have to subtract the number of additional runs that would have scored had he stayed on the bench rather than come in only to get caught stealing 17 times.

Then you'd of course have to figure out how many of these runs were really game-winners in "crucial situations" as Bobby Jr. would have you believe.

I'm having a very hard time believing this player had any appreciable impact on the success of the A's in 1974 / '75. His release by the team (which marked the end of his career) would seem to bear that out.

[Rice14]

Perhaps I should have phrased it differently. It is difficult to score "a lot of runs" when a player is only pinch running for one appearance a game. In those terms, it is likely that Washington scored some very important runs with those 33 runs he scored, which is a lot of runs for a pinch runner who only occasionally appears, in crucial situations.

Most times Herb Washington came into games was when it was a crucial situation with a close game and when 1 run made a big difference.

How many times in 1974 did Herb Washington score from 1st on a double, when other runners would not have even tried? How many times did he score from 2nd on a single, or from 3rd on a sacrifice fly, after stealing 3rd?

Just picking out one stat like saying "his steal percentage was not good" or "he only scored 33 runs", does not show the value he had to the team. Because speed is valuable in other ways that don't show up in stats.

I also don't believe the disruptive affect Herb Washington had on pitchers can be discounted. How disruptive would it be for a pitcher to have an olympic sprinter come in to steal a base on him in the 9th inning, with the game tied? This would be a unique situation, just having Washington's name announced could make a pitcher nervous, and having him come into the game with the fans cheering. The affect he had on pitchers efficiency cannot be known based on studies of other base runners. Herb Washington was unique and so were the situations in which he came into the game.

Wow, I think we've all been victim to one of the greatest internet con jobs of all time. There's no way that Bobby isn't just putting us all on. Is there?

[bobby jr]

Wow, I think we've all been victim to one of the greatest internet con jobs of all time. There's no way that Bobby isn't just putting us all on. Is there?

An old high school debating trick. Try to invalidate the messenger when you lack the ammo to dispute the message.

[sweet_lou_14]

This thread brings Yankees and Red Sox fans together. Almost makes me weepy.

[sweet_lou_14]

An old high school debating trick. Try to invalidate the messenger when you lack the ammo to dispute the message.

And by the way, plenty of people including myself have responded to you ... your lack of a valid response to those responses suggests that you're full of crap and jerking everyone's chain.

[hellonewman]

An old high school debating trick.

I think you'd better stop insulting high school debaters.

[bobby jr]

And by the way, plenty of people including myself have responded to you ... your lack of a valid response to those responses suggests that you're full of crap and jerking everyone's chain.

Read the thread. I've responded to many points and arguments that other posters have made. That is the most of what I post, responses to other people's statements.

Again, you are attacking the responder rather than responding to the content.
When this happens too often on a forum, it's time for me to take a vacation.
Other forums to visit, and I enjoy talking about MLB rather than getting involved with petty internet feuds.

[hardrain]

I enjoy talking about MLB rather than getting involved with petty internet feuds.

your prolonged presence here suggests the opposite.

[Rice14]

An old high school debating trick. Try to invalidate the messenger when you lack the ammo to dispute the message.

Well, let's see, Washington was dumped at the start of the next season, no other team picked him up, and in the 35 years since no other team has tried the pinch runner specialist.

Seems like more than enough ammo to suggest he was a big flop.

[Yankees Empire]

This thread brings Yankees and Red Sox fans together. Almost makes me weepy.

For the life of me, I can't decide if this the greatest thread in the entire forum or the very worst.

It's kind of like Battlefield Earth. You start watching it and it's so bad, you keep thinking "Ok, it's got to get even a little bit better, right?" or "I'm waiting for the punchline. This has got to be a joke."

And yet, it doesn't get better and no punchline emerges. And then you have to sit back in awe of the staggering awfulness of the entire affair, shake your head in bemusement, and laugh.

All the while, you keep watching. Like gawking at a 4-car pileup on the highway, you can't turn away. Substitute Travolta with Herb Washington and that's about got it.

[teknetic]

Again, you are attacking the responder rather than responding to the content.
When this happens too often on a forum, it's time for me to take a vacation.
Other forums to visit, and I enjoy talking about MLB rather than getting involved with petty internet feuds.

This post was designed to discourage posters from attacking your points?

[hardrain]

This thread brings Yankees and Red Sox fans together. Almost makes me weepy.

I've been thinking the same thing. I certainly appreciate RICE14's contributions to this thread and his insight into Bobby's misguided visions.

[False1]

it's time for me to take a vacation.

Make sure you do so in a small market. You'd hate to contribute to the unfair advantage in big market tourism.

[hardrain]

Jim Palmer and Earl Weaver can't be enjoying this....

[JeterRodriguezSheff]

Haha, it must really suck to be an Orioles fan today.

[JDPNYY]

Haha, it must really suck to be an Orioles fan today.

today?

[False1]

Haha, it must really suck to be an Orioles fan today.

One of them isn't concerned, expects this because of the injustices in baseball. The other seven of them are pretty torn up though.

[Rice14]

I've been thinking the same thing. I certainly appreciate RICE14's contributions to this thread and his insight into Bobby's misguided visions.

No problem, Yankee or Red Sox fan, we can all see that the Orioles biggest problem is themselves.

[CoyoteYankee]

Perhaps I should have phrased it differently. It is difficult to score "a lot of runs" when a player is only pinch running for one appearance a game. In those terms, it is likely that Washington scored some very important runs with those 33 runs he scored, which is a lot of runs for a pinch runner who only occasionally appears, in crucial situations.

Most times Herb Washington came into games was when it was a crucial situation with a close game and when 1 run made a big difference.

How many times in 1974 did Herb Washington score from 1st on a double, when other runners would not have even tried? How many times did he score from 2nd on a single, or from 3rd on a sacrifice fly, after stealing 3rd?

Just picking out one stat like saying "his steal percentage was not good" or "he only scored 33 runs", does not show the value he had to the team. Because speed is valuable in other ways that don't show up in stats.

I also don't believe the disruptive affect Herb Washington had on pitchers can be discounted. How disruptive would it be for a pitcher to have an olympic sprinter come in to steal a base on him in the 9th inning, with the game tied? This would be a unique situation, just having Washington's name announced could make a pitcher nervous, and having him come into the game with the fans cheering. The affect he had on pitchers efficiency cannot be known based on studies of other base runners. Herb Washington was unique and so were the situations in which he came into the game.

I see no reason to believe that he made pitchers shake in fear any more than any other decent base stealer in the majors. In fact, maybe less because his base stealing skills weren't as good as any decent base stealer. So, it probably makes more sense to have a decent base stealer who can maybe get a hit than one who can't even bat.

There is absolutely no basis for any of your statements above. You have thrown out every stat that doesn't fit your argument, like stolen base percentage and runs scored, and stated "But he probably disrupted the pitchers!" or "But what about all those things that you can't see?!" Your argument is based on things we can't see. That's an interesting way to try to win a debate.

I'm also guessing that the amount of times that he scored from 1st on a double or any of the other situations that you cite was not enough more than someone else with good speed to justify a roster spot for someone who doesn't bat. My guess is as good as yours. Or maybe better since there are actually, like, stats to back up my guess.

[False1]

I went and quickly scanned the game logs for the first 5 games where Washington scored a run in '74. They are pretty non-eventful. See below. Scored from third on a double, no extra bases created by his speed and scored from third on a HR after being bunted over - nothing real exciting.

You have to go to game 28 of that season before he had a stolen base that conrtibuted to a run, and he was the trail runner on a double steal. They were down 7-0 at the time and lost the game 8-2.

--------------------

Top of the 8th, Athletics Batting, Ahead 8-3, Orioles' Jesse Jefferson facing 5-6-7
t8 8-3 0 --- OAK J. Rudi J. Jefferson 0% 99% Single; Rudi to 2B/Adv on E7 (throw)
t8 8-3 0 -2- O OAK G. Tenace J. Jefferson -0% 99% Groundout: 3B-1B
t8 8-3 1 -2- OAK D. Johnson J. Jefferson 0% 99% Walk
Herb Washington pinch runs for Deron Johnson (DH) batting 7th
t8 8-3 1 12- O OAK R. Fosse J. Jefferson -0% 99% Popfly: 2B
t8 8-3 2 12- OAK T. Kubiak J. Jefferson 0% 99% Walk; Rudi to 3B; Washington to 2B
t8 8-3 2 123 RRR OAK B. Campaneris J. Jefferson 1% 100% Double; Rudi Scores; Washington Scores; Kubiak Scores
Don Hood replaces Jesse Jefferson pitching
t8 11-3 2 -2- OAK B. North D. Hood 0% 100% Walk
t8 11-3 2 12- O OAK S. Bando D. Hood -0% 100% Strikeout


Top of the 7th, Athletics Batting, Tied 1-1, Twins' Joe Decker facing 7-8-9
t7 1-1 0 --- R OAK G. Tenace J. Decker 20% 70% Home Run
t7 2-1 0 --- OAK T. Kubiak J. Decker 11% 81% Single to LF; Kubiak to 3B/Adv on E7
Tom Burgmeier replaces Joe Decker pitching
Sal Bando pinch hits for Phil Garner (3B) batting 9th
t7 2-1 0 --3 R OAK S. Bando T. Burgmeier 4% 85% Single to CF; Kubiak Scores
Herb Washington pinch runs for Sal Bando (PH) batting 9th
t7 3-1 0 1-- OAK B. North T. Burgmeier 3% 88% Walk; Washington to 2B
t7 3-1 0 12- O OAK B. Campaneris T. Burgmeier 0% 88% Bunt Groundout: P-2B/Sacrifice; Washington to 3B; North to 2B
t7 3-1 1 -23 RO OAK J. Rudi T. Burgmeier 1% 90% Lineout: LF/Sacrifice Fly; Washington Scores
t7 4-1 2 -2- RR OAK R. Jackson T. Burgmeier 7% 97% Home Run; North Scores
t7 6-1 2 --- OAK A. Mangual T. Burgmeier 0% 97% Single to LF

[#1PaFan]

I'm still waiting to hear if bobby junior is going to take my bet.

[Saxmania]

Well, let's see, Washington was dumped at the start of the next season, no other team picked him up, and in the 35 years since no other team has tried the pinch runner specialist.

Seems like more than enough ammo to suggest he was a big flop.

Yep. It seems like, if Finley was such a genius for coming up with this inspired idea, then Bobby should assume that he was probably right to dump Washington after his deeply uninspired performance on the basepaths, and no other team found him interesting enough to pick up.

Washington was a fast runner but a bad baserunner. (There are lots of those in MLB today, but they can hit and/or field too!) He was, therefore, Not Good At Baseball.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[Saxmania]

Standing room only for 'Strasmus' last night. I wonder if Washington's burgeoning farm system might cause their team to improve, increasing attendance, and generating improved revenue in a market which is potentially (including the surrounding areas) quite a large one. Which could lead to being in on some better-ranked free agents and maybe a playoff run or two in the next few years.

Nah. Baseball won't succeed in Washington. They were bad for a couple of years, and their attendance wasn't so good. Therefore it's impossible for them to turn things around, particularly stuck in a division with the Mets ($132m payroll) and the Phillies ($141m payroll).

Early days, but this is how bad teams become good ones. Takes patience and some luck, of course.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

I also don't believe the disruptive affect Herb Washington had on pitchers can be discounted.

Well, it shouldn't be discounted if he was disruptive. It should be if he wasn't. It probably makes more sense to look at the evidence rather than to just opine in ignorance.

How disruptive would it be for a pitcher to have an olympic sprinter come in to steal a base on him in the 9th inning, with the game tied?

I don't know what being an olympic sprinter has to do with anything. What would, or would not, disrupt a pitcher would be the threat of a stolen base. And this has been researched quite extensively, and the disruptive effect is pretty minimal. Does it have no effect on a pitcher to have a base stealing threat on base? Of course not, it would be foolish to suggest as much. Does it disrupt a pitcher to such an extent that his pitching effectiveness is dramatically reduced? Evidence, (and we've been down this road before, and I know how much you hate evidence, but it really is the way to measure things), suggests it does not.

This would be a unique situation

Having a speedy baserunner on base is unique? You may not know what unique means.

just having Washington's name announced could make a pitcher nervous, and having him come into the game with the fans cheering.[/

I think it's highly unlikely a major league pitcher gets nervous from hearing a name announced or some cheers from the fans. More likely, a pitcher's nervousness, or lack thereof, would be based on the threat posed by Washington coming into the game. The evidence (there I go again, with evidence. Sorry, I just can't help myself), shows that Washington wasn't very effective. Pitchers therefore would be very unlikely to get nervous from hearing his name announced.

The affect he had on pitchers efficiency cannot be known based on studies of other base runners.

I think you may have just topped yourself, and as you might imagine, I consider that a very high bar. It is truly laughable to suggest that a baserunner's impact cannot be measured based on studying the evidence of how baserunners impact the game. He did one thing. One thing which is a routine part of baseball. He did not do it exceptionally well, in fact, he did it somewhat poorly. And it's trivial to measure his impact on the game by examining the impact of others who did the same thing.

Herb Washington was unique

I agree with this. Other than Eddie Gaedel, I can't think of anyone else in mlb history who had such a singular role. And unlike Gaedel, he wasn't a gimmick - he was used in real game situations, for an extended period of time. I can't think of anything similar.

and so were the situations in which he came into the game.

Just when you got one right, you go and get one wrong. There was absolutely nothing unique about the situations into which he came into any game. Can you even believe that statement? I mean, c'mon, that's laughable. He was used as a pinch runner, no differently from countless pinch runners in baseball history. His situations were utterly routine. Really, I can't believe you believe what you wrote there. Unless you really don't know what the word unique means.

Look bobby, it's time to cut bait on this one. The arguments you're making are getting more and more absurd. Herb Washington was a very very fast man. No one disputes that. That could have made him a very dangerous base runner. But it didn't. Only you seem to dispute that. And I don't know why you dispute that. It's not rocket science to measure how effective someone is on the basepaths. The evidence paints a pretty clear picture of someone who simply wasn't that effective. Presumably he simply never learned how to take good leads, read a pitcher's motion to the plate, etc.... But whatever the reason, he wasn't very good on the basepaths. And you're sounding sillier and sillier in refusing to acknowledge that. Charlie Finley figured it out in 1975, I don't know why you're struggling with it 35 years later.

[Mark19]

So in the last few pages bobby jr. has trumpeted the worth of Herb Washington, a guy who should have never stepped foot on a baseball field, and has come out and said Matt Wieters will be a better and more valuable player then Strasburg.

Just when you think it cant get any weirder in here....

Ask him about the Daniel Cabrera = Sandy Koufax/Randy Johnson assertion

[35Knucklecurve]

Ask him about the Daniel Cabrera = Sandy Koufax/Randy Johnson assertion

.......math was never my strong subject, but something is seriously lacking in the equation here.

[Saxmania]

Funny stuff. I was reading through the early parts of this thread, and in 2006 Bobby asked whether it wasn't unfair that several teams, including Tampa Bay, would never be able to win a World Series under the current MLB rules.

Two years later, Tampa Bay won the American League. Two years after that, they lead the AL East.

He also revelled in the Orioles 1-hitting the Yankees, saying "The Orioles beat Mussina, and probably ended his chances of ever winning 20 games."

Two years later, New York Yankee Mike Mussina won 20 games in his final MLB season.

Hey, Bobby! Please say that I'll never win the lottery! Pleasepleasepleaseplease . . . .

EDIT - Another!

What chance do the Tampa Bay Devil Rays ever have of unseating the Yankees as AL East champions. Between 0 and 1%.

In 2008, who were the AL East Champions again? And Bobby can't even use the 'exception' weasel out of it, as he named the specific teams involved!

Bobby, your predictions are very, very poor. Are you sure you're not an advisor to Angelos?

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[sweet_lou_14]

I went and quickly scanned the game logs for the first 5 games where Washington scored a run in '74. They are pretty non-eventful. See below.

Wow. I'm impressed that you went ahead and did this. Thanks.

As I said above, I imagine it would be difficult to find many examples where his speed (as compared even to the guy being pinch run for, much less to another pinch runner who could actually hit) truly made the difference between a loss and a win. And again, you'd have to counteract that with examples where he came in and got caught stealing, thereby decreasing his team's chance to win and perhaps (impossible to know, fallacy of the predetermined outcome) turning what would have been a win into a loss.

[Rice14]

Wow. I'm impressed that you went ahead and did this. Thanks.

As I said above, I imagine it would be difficult to find many examples where his speed (as compared even to the guy being pinch run for, much less to another pinch runner who could actually hit) truly made the difference between a loss and a win. And again, you'd have to counteract that with examples where he came in and got caught stealing, thereby decreasing his team's chance to win and perhaps (impossible to know, fallacy of the predetermined outcome) turning what would have been a win into a loss.

It's so ridiculous. Even if this guy was a step faster than MLB baserunners, a guy playing baseball his whole life is going to get better leads, better jumps on balls that are hit, be a better judge of whether a ball is going to be caught or fall in, be a better judge of when to go for the extra base. I'll take a pretty fast guy with strong baseball instincts over a really fast clueless guy. Is clueless too harsh? Well, in doing a little research online yesterday, I came across an anecdote of a conversation between Washington and his manager Alvin Dark. Washington was sent in to pinchrun for the man on first and he asked Dark if he should steal second. Dark replied that it probably wasn't a good idea since they already had a runner on second base.

[NelsonMuntz]

Awww I was trying to tweak bobby and you stepped all over it! Play along next time!

Sorry. Fortunately he didn't disappoint. Wieters > Strasburg. Classic.

[Rice14]

Sorry. Fortunately he didn't disappoint. Wieters > Strasburg. Classic.

I read that Bobby is campaining for Matt Weiters to legally change his name to Johnny Bench.

[JDPNYY]

I read that Bobby is campaining for Matt Weiters to legally change his name to Johnny Bench.

He's like 2 bad games from being on the bench.

[Mr. Mxylsplk]

An old high school debating trick. Try to invalidate the messenger when you lack the ammo to dispute the message.

Read the thread. I've responded to many points and arguments that other posters have made. That is the most of what I post, responses to other people's statements.

Again, you are attacking the responder rather than responding to the content.
When this happens too often on a forum, it's time for me to take a vacation.
Other forums to visit, and I enjoy talking about MLB rather than getting involved with petty internet feuds.

It's so cute when bobby plays the aggrieved party, pretending he's making legitimate responses to others' posts, while it's they who ignore what he says and instead engage in these so-called tricks. Talk about protesting too much.

[Rice14]

He's like 2 bad games from being on the bench.

Mattonthe Bench ?

[ny]

Wow. I'm impressed that you went ahead and did this. Thanks.

Unfortunately it's a waste of time trying to explain this to someone who has shown time and time again that he has absolutely no clue about the game. He needs to really dumb it down so bobbi can understand maybe something along the lines of see spot run.

[Yankees Empire]

It's so cute when bobby plays the aggrieved party, pretending he's making legitimate responses to others' posts, while it's they who ignore what he says and instead engage in these so-called tricks. Talk about protesting too much.

And it once again begs the question posed by so many people: Is the guy on the level? His styles of writing and argumentation are so rudimentary, it's hard to believe that he could possibly be serious. I know I'm engaging in a tried and true "high school debating trick" by questioning the messenger and not the message, but still...

If this has indeed been some great ruse, it's a classic. As our little friend has been at this for so many years, it's hard to believe that anbody would be able to keep up the joke for as long as it's been going on.

Again, I don't know if this is the forum's best thread or its worst, but it is certainly rarely boring.

[35Knucklecurve]

I can't help but notice all the former O's they're bringing back as color commentators - guys Eddie like Murray, Brady Anderson, Ben McDonald and Chris Hoiles. While I'm sure it's nice to have them lending their expertise and I do like listening to some of the stories they share, I'm sure fans would appreciate management putting that much effort into what's on the field now.

[sweet_lou_14]

I can't help but notice all the former O's they're bringing back as color commentators - guys Eddie like Murray, Brady Anderson, Ben McDonald and Chris Hoiles. While I'm sure it's nice to have them lending their expertise and I do like listening to some of the stories they share, I'm sure fans would appreciate management putting that much effort into what's on the field now.

Yeah. Why can't they be like the Red Sox -- a team that craps all over its former players for years, and then finally starts retiring numbers and patching up old wounds once they actually win something.

[Why Not?]

Standing room only for 'Strasmus' last night. I wonder if Washington's burgeoning farm system might cause their team to improve, increasing attendance, and generating improved revenue in a market which is potentially (including the surrounding areas) quite a large one. Which could lead to being in on some better-ranked free agents and maybe a playoff run or two in the next few years.

Nah. Baseball won't succeed in Washington. They were bad for a couple of years, and their attendance wasn't so good. Therefore it's impossible for them to turn things around, particularly stuck in a division with the Mets ($132m payroll) and the Phillies ($141m payroll).

Early days, but this is how bad teams become good ones. Takes patience and some luck, of course.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

I wouldn't really consider Strasburg evidence of a burgeoning farm system. They were fortunate enough to have the first pick when an amazing talent came up. Lightning might have struck twice with Harper.

That said, I don't disagree with your general point. You have to build and make good decisions. Baltimore hasn't done much of that.

[snarkerella]

They held a lead for five innings tonight. That's the longest they've held a lead since May 25.

[#1PaFan]

They held a lead for five innings tonight. That's the longest they've held a lead since May 25.

What season?

[effdamets]

I wanna know why guys like Tejada, Wigginton and Lugo are on this team?
It just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

[yanke26]

Angelos has had 2 winning seasons in 17 years. He has had 17 profitable years in 17 seasons though. I blame the Yankees.

[Saxmania]

I wouldn't really consider Strasburg evidence of a burgeoning farm system. They were fortunate enough to have the first pick when an amazing talent came up. Lightning might have struck twice with Harper.

That said, I don't disagree with your general point. You have to build and make good decisions. Baltimore hasn't done much of that.

True, not everyone gets a Strasburg. But still, you have to move when your pick comes up, and not be stingy on the dollars. If you have $70m payroll, don't spend $6m on 37-year-old Jeromy Burnitz and $4m on the draft + IFA. If there's no Strasburg, throw money at some signability issues. I suppose placebo signings like Burnitz are more appealing to the fans. Well, losing for 13 years in a row isn't that appealing, and that's where the overpriced veterans get you.

Don't get Millar, Lugo, or their ilk until you think you've got a shot at the wild card. If you can get a few veterans for a couple of million who will do more coaching than playing, that's one thing. If they're actually fairly good and can be flipped for prospects, that's okay too. But Washington in general has been pretty good at throwing their money into the draft instead of free agency or salary dumps, and Baltimore has been very bad. That's part of the reason that Washington is on the way up - not just Strasburg, but also Norris, Storen, and Espinosa. With Harper on the way.

Not that we disagree on this or anything.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[NelsonMuntz]

So Juan Samuel brings in a righty to match up against Kevin Russo after Cervelli drives home the go ahead run off of a lefty. Good thing the O's fired Trembley. Clearly he was the problem.

[Yankee Tripper]

I wanna know why guys like Tejada, Wigginton and Lugo are on this team?
It just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

The picthing was supposed to be better with Matusz and Tillamn coming into their own and Millwood to be a better than average innings eater. The offense was suspposed to be decent lead by Roberts/Jones/Markakis/Riemold/Weiters.

The rest of those guys were supposed to be short term stop gaps until they could find better ling term solutions.

But pretty much every they touched turned to sh!t this year so another lost season in Oriole land.

On the bright side maybe there is a talent like Starsburg or Harper in next year's draft.

[Rice14]

The picthing was supposed to be better with Matusz and Tillamn coming into their own and Millwood to be a better than average innings eater. The offense was suspposed to be decent lead by Roberts/Jones/Markakis/Riemold/Weiters.

The rest of those guys were supposed to be short term stop gaps until they could find better ling term solutions.

But pretty much every they touched turned to sh!t this year so another lost season in Oriole land.

On the bright side maybe there is a talent like Starsburg or Harper in next year's draft.

They'll probably just draft the 2011 version of Matt Bush, cheap and signable.

[ny]

Whats the deal with Matt Weiters, from what I've seen of him against the Yankees he has been very unimpressive and looks completely overmatched at the plate.

[just-blaze]

I wouldn't really consider Strasburg evidence of a burgeoning farm system. They were fortunate enough to have the first pick when an amazing talent came up. Lightning might have struck twice with Harper.

That said, I don't disagree with your general point. You have to build and make good decisions. Baltimore hasn't done much of that.

Well you guys are certainly frontrunners for next year.....dont eff it up.

[just-blaze]

Make sure you do so in a small market. You'd hate to contribute to the unfair advantage in big market tourism.

Horrible.