Well yeah I am, since I never talk to Oriole fans.Originally Posted by NewOrioleWork
I am going to guess from your tone that Oriole fans don't like Angelos.
Well yeah I am, since I never talk to Oriole fans.
I am going to guess from your tone that Oriole fans don't like Angelos.
They despise him actually.
Merry f'ing Christmas
Hell, I don't even like him.
Well it is too bad a great franchise like that fell into such awful hands.
Angelos has made mistakes, but his heart is in the right place. He fought hard to get the MASN money and to assure that the money will continue to flow long after he passes away or sells the team. I believe he has the besgt interest of the Orioles at heart even if he has failed in many of his decisions regarding personnel and front office.
Look if you want to see a really bad owner, look at Robert Irsay, who owned the Colts in Baltimore. Embararassing himself with his publick drinking, he once took over calling the plays during a game on the sideline. Shopped the team around and broke his promises, eventually drove down the Colts attendance and moved them to Indianapolis.
While Angleos has made some bad decisions, to compare him to the worst owners in sports history is ludicrous.
You realize that most Orioles fans disagree with you, vehemently.
PGA fought for MASN money, but it wasn't for charity. He's assured himself (or his family) a massive payday when the team is sold, so he has no reason to invest in the team at more than a modest level. All that MASN money isn't being spent on the club. We'll see if Angelos even attempts to turn his additional money into additional wins.
Just because Irsay was terrible doesn't mean Angelos is any good.
Is it possible to fire ownership?
Angelos is the reason why the Orioles are where they are. His decisions to create the dumbest front office system in the history of professional sports in basically giving more than one person final say will never work.
NEW link for NYYFANS companion site for politics and more: www.editorialme.com.
It's never been clear exactly how the two-headed GM arrangement worked. One guy was always atop the other in the hierarchy, so I don't know if it was really any different than having a GM and an assistant GM.
I don't know if the building of bad teams was because of the structure of the front office as much as the lack of ability of the members of the front office. Either way, Angelos is ultimately responsible for the losing as well as the disconnect between the team and its fans.
Is it possible to fire ownership?
Agreed. There are many different ways to explain the failure of the Orioles over the last decade, but no matter how you draw them up, they inevitably lead back to Angelos' desk.
"...it was blood, my blood, and it was coming from the sutures in my ankle. You’re either stupid or bitter if you think otherwise." --Curt Schilling on the Bloody Sock, 3/17/07
In what I think is a positive step, the Orioles will not be bringing back Leo Mazzone next season. Mazzone, whose relationship with younger pitchers has always been a little iffy, was brought in because of his close personal ties to Sam Perlozzo.
I think he did an OK job overall, but nothing that really wowed me as I would have hoped. I think Bedard was going to become a top of the line pitcher as long as the Peter Angelos of pitching coaches wasn't brought in. From his Orioles tenure, I think Jeremy Guthrie may be Mazzone's biggest achievement. Hopefully he continues to show that he can be a top half of the rotation guy going forward.
I like that they are (it appears) going to let Trembley pick his staff moving forward. Now the only question is finding a good guy to replace him.
If someone offers you 10,000:1 odds on anything, you take it. If John Mellencamp ever wins an Oscar, I will be a very rich man.
To follow MelmoandMiggy's post, just a link to an article about the non-return of Mazzone:
http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10404226/
FYI, I received confirmation that Bobby Jr. kept his word! Good job, Bobby!
....
Good job also, Tony and Paulie.FYI, I received confirmation that Bobby Jr. kept his word! Good job, Bobby!
Let the kids play.
What's up with Millar and his rah-rah for the Red Sox the other night?
Isn't he still an Oriole?
Auction League: Bitches Brew - 2006, 2007, 2008 Champs
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Woah...what did he do?What's up with Millar and his rah-rah for the Red Sox the other night?
Isn't he still an Oriole?
238 more runs to score 1000.
2010 GT record: 8-5 (including two near no-hitters)
There was a promo before the game where he was basically telling them to sack up and win the game like back in 04.
Even finished it with a 'cowboy up!' cheer.
Auction League: Bitches Brew - 2006, 2007, 2008 Champs
NYYFans.com League: Bad Apples 2008 Champs
He's throwing out the first pitch tonight.
Aubrey Huff with some interesting comments on Bubba The Love Spounge
http://wnst.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryID/3728/Default.aspx
Only two teams in baseball history have won wire to wire, had the most victories in their league and also swept the World Series: the 1927 Yankees and the 2005 White Sox.
Balmer's pretty angry about this. We're a sensitive bunch when it comes to our hometown. Word is that Andy McPhail is unhappy as well.
Is it possible to fire ownership?
Sounds like Huff should hit up Hideki Matsui for some of his stash so he can save a little money on hotel ppv.
What is he mad about? Sounds Matsui-esque to me.
Id rather he keeps it to himself, then getting some random whores knocked up or getting some STD.
I'm not familiar with what Matsui did/said.
McPhail's angry about the content of the conversation. It doesn't really cast a good light on the squad......they have enough trouble with that ON the field.
Is it possible to fire ownership?
I think he also referred to Baltimore as a "horse sh*t town" or something like that. I don't think people care all that much about the porn stuff.
Never left the Betances bandwagon.
He is known to travel with an extensive collection of adult entertainment.
http://www.time.com/time/asia/2003/h...ki_matsui.html (it's pretty far into the article, just do a search if you don't want to read all the way through)
Saw Huff play in Houston..he's garbage
The fans (at least those who call Balmer home) are upset at the horsepoop town comment. The TEAM is upset about the porn/stripper stuff. So I guess he's managed to upset just about everyone except his teammates.
Is it possible to fire ownership?
Thanks. That's kind of weird and funny at the same time.
Is it possible to fire ownership?
Right. That's basically what I have heard as well.
Never left the Betances bandwagon.
Word out of Baltimore is that Tejada to the Angels for Brandon Wood and Ervin Santana or Joe Saunders is very close.
Is it possible to fire ownership?
The Angels are on crack. Fo' realz.
That's a good deal. I think the East might just be interesting in '08.
“You can’t ascribe our fall from grace to any single event or set of circumstances. You can’t lose what you lacked at conception.”
Meh......
Wood hasnt lit the minors on fire like expected, thus, I dont expect him to do much better than Tejada and Santana hasnt lit the majors like expected.
However, Baltimore saves alot of money for similar production and more pitching.
Very good trade for Baltimore.
Stretch for the Angels.
I thought this article was relevant to this thread given the number of posts from our friend bobby jr on the unfair economic conditions in baseball:
http://mvn.com/thelastpage/2007/11/3...m-in-baseball/
...
There is no competitive balance problem in baseball. None at all. Parity in baseball is so healthy that personally, I think that it’s ridiculous that it’s even a question. The best team in the MLB last year had a winning percentage of 59.3 %. The Boston Red Sox – owners of a 140+ million dollar payroll, couldn’t even win 60% of the time The worst team in baseball, the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, managed a 40.7% winning percentage. What does that mean? I means that if I’m a fan of the worst team in baseball, I’ll still see my team win roughly 3 out of every 7 games.
Let’s compare this to the NFL – a salary capped leagues. In the NFL, the average winning percentage for a last place team was 27.3%. Two teams – the Oakland Raiders and Detroit Lions – weren’t able to crack 20%. The worst teams in Football win half as much as the worst teams in baseball. Five teams posted winning percentages over 75%. The NFL has some non-cap related issues here – namely the 16 game schedule, but it helps to put baseball in perspective. Imagine being an Oakland Raiders fan? Why even show up?
What about the playoffs? Since the Yankee dynasty was broken up in 2001, only five teams in the American League and four teams in the National League have failed to make the playoffs. Five years! Over 2/3 of baseball fans have had the opportunity to watch their team in October baseball in a very short period of time. I’m no expert on the NFL, but I’d wager that less than 2/3 of NFL teams in the past five years have made the post-season.
Winning in the playoffs? Since the Yankee dynasty ended, only three teams have managed to make two World Series – the Cardinals, Yankees and the Red Sox, and only the Red Sox were able to win. The Giants, Marlins, Yankees, Angels, Diamondbacks, Astros, Rockies, Red Sox, Cardinals, and White Sox are a diverse group. They come from large, medium, and small markets.
...
Free agency is a gambler’s market. Teams spend a lot of money on often uncertain investments. Mike Mussina was paid 19 million dollars in 2006 at the age of 37 because when he was 31, he was among the game’s top pitchers. Teams can spend a lot of money, but the reality of long term deals often means teams end up with dead weight on their roster – the Yankees have Jason Giambi, the Dodgers have Juan Pierre, the Athletics had Jason Kendall, and so on. Spending more money on free agents creates a system of diminishing returns – decreasing monetary advantage.
Money isn’t the problem. Management is. Baseball teams are getting smarter, which is highlighting the differences between the good managers and the bad managers. The Rockies learned their lesson. The Devil Rays are learning their lesson. The Baltimore Orioles, Texas Rangers, and San Francisco Giants clearly are going the other way. But that’s an issue for another day. It has nothing to do with a salary cap.
Never left the Betances bandwagon.
Nelson, you can't compare teams in the NFL and MLB and the NFL in terms of winning percentage. There have historically been more extremes in the NFL.
This is a false analogy and the writer undermines his whole argument when he did that.
I could easily find several articles which say the NFL is a model which MLB should follow, with the salary cap. One writers opinion makes little difference.
But common sense tells you that when the richest team in a league makes the playoffs 13 straight years with no end in sight, that other teams in that division are at a huge disadvantage, and a salary cap may be a solution.
Anyway these are not good times in Baltimore with the Ravens meltdown at the end of their great performance in the Patriots game, and then getting blown out by Indy at home last night. Coupled with the Orioles' Gibbons disgraceful behavior. I'm sure better times are in the future, the darkest hour is often right before the dawn.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/f...1008556.column
Baltimore's pro teams shame themselves, city
"(Gibbons) was one of two players nailed by baseball but the only one who brazenly had denied his involvement and jabbed a figurative finger at a teammate for being caught.....
Whiners, liars, sore losers, back stabbers, cheaters. All while carrying the banner of Baltimore."
The same things happen in the NFL -- geez, look at the Patriots. They're not the richest team, mowing people down, and no end in sight. They get the 49ers pick next year, so they may have the best record this year and get the SECOND pick in the draft.
What you forget about baseball is that it's not just the money that benefits the Yankees (and the Sox, the team I root for). The Yankees are a really, really well run organization. Baseball players around the world DREAM about playing for the Yankees --- some maybe dream about the RS, but not as many I bet. And, yes, even when they're here, the folks who want to be on the big stage want to be in NY and to a significantly lesser extent Boston.
No matter how you spin it, if you are an elite baseball player you are not dreaming about playing for the Orioles with Angelos in charge. The Orioles have an awesome history and it's too bad they are so mismanaged. A salary cap would not save the Orioles from mediocrity. And, heck, even if the Yankees had less money, they would still do real well - they are a well run team now with a scarily good farm system. So don't kid yourself, Bobby!
It has been speculated that the team referred to in this "exchange" was the Orioles (scroll down to "A Beautiful Quote") ...
Prospect Insider | Jason Churchill
Any other guesses?
Oh, that's why I was saying that it's a great trade for Baltimore and the Angels are on crack. That would be a very detrimental trade for them to make. Very stupid too.
“You can’t ascribe our fall from grace to any single event or set of circumstances. You can’t lose what you lacked at conception.”
The Yankees are number one in payroll and the Red Sox are number two. This is certainly a factor in both teams success. If the Orioles and the Yankees switched payrolls, it would only be a matter of time until they switched places in the standings too.
One advantage of having a huge payroll is that a team can afford to make mistakes and just sign other players to make up for them. For example, extending Mussina's contract, signing Pavano, signing Damon, signing Clemens. None of these moves worked out as the Yankees had planned.
When the Orioles, with a much lower payoll and a lower margin for error, make mistakes such as their bullpen signings last year, the results are devastating.
The Orioles had the 10th highest payroll last year at 95 mil. Why didn't they finish in 10th place overall? I don't get it. Oh that's right, they are a horribly run organization with a moron owner.
I'm a Knicks fan. Money doesn't mean wins.
How many championships did the Orioles win in the late 90s when they led MLB in payroll, and were you upset about the competitive the Orioles had then?
Alex Rodriguez
Career OPS: .965
Postseason OPS: .977
Why should he stop now? He's been at this for years.
So if the Dodgers switched payrolls with the Diamondbacks would they switch places in the standings?
What's that? The D-Backs already have a significantly lower payroll AND finished ahead of the Dodgers (who ALSO finished behind the lower payroll Rockies AND Padres?) Never mind.
I suppose your ability to be so consistently ignorant of hard evidence is at least somewhat impressive.
An old high school debating trick, when you run out of ammo, attack the messenger.
Speaking of ignoring hard evidence, there was an article posted on this thread a few months ago which showed that with each collective bargaining agreement the correlation between regular season winning percentage and team payroll was growing stronger. This is a mathematical certainty, not really open to debate. (Citing exceptions does not change the fact that the overall pattern exists: High payroll generally correlates with high winning percentage).
(Is this really what some Yankee fans believe, but won't say? )
"Yes I realize that the Yankees have a perpetual competitive advantage in the AL East over the Orioles, Toronto, and Tampa Bay, due to the Yankees much higher revenues and extremely high team payroll. But I enjoy seeing my team in the playoffs each year and I am am against changing the system, or imposing a hard salary cap, for that reason. I want the Yankees advantage to continue, and this is more important to me than having a perfectly fair or equitable system in MLB "
Ahh bobby, back to that old canard of accusing others of employing your beloved "high school debating tricks". The only one here who debates in bad faith is you. I employed no tricks, I merely pointed out that your latest post was consistent with your history of making assertions directly contradicted by the evidence. It is perfectly reasonable when considering your posts to take into account the tremendous extent to which you make posts that directly ignore evidence. It would be irresponsible to evaluate a person's posts without considering their credibility, which in your case has been shown countless times to be very very low. You may not like it, but when a messenger is known to deliver incorrect messages, one simply must keep that in mind when reviewing further messages.
Your latest point is, sadly, fully consistent with your posting history, and contrary to your claim, my post is not short on ammo in the least. You contend that with a higher payroll the O's would move into the lofty place in the standings occupied by the likes of Boston and the Yankees. This, as pointed out by others in the thread, is directly refuted by the evidence of the O's being an also-ran even when they did invest in a large payroll. I don't know why you insist on asserting things that can be trivially shown to be wrong. I don't know why you insist on ignoring evidence in post after post after post. I do know however that for a guy who seems so sensitive about being criticized by so many here, you sure don't do yourself any favors by so consistently posting fallacies.
Isn't accusing others of employing " old high school debating tricks" an old high school debating trick? Whatever.
The Orioles continue to throw money at crappy veterans and squander their annual advantageous draft position. It's the Yankees' fault.
What, no comment on the Tejada to Astros article I just read?
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7556464?MSNHPHMATejada was traded from the Baltimore Orioles to the Houston Astros for five players on Wednesday, giving the former AL MVP a fresh start on a team looking to boost its lineup.
The Orioles got outfielder Luke Scott, pitchers Matt Albers, Troy Patton and Dennis Sarfate, and third baseman Michael Costanzo, Baltimore president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail said.
This chick digs the long ball
Interesting trade for the O's. I think I like it for them to be honest.
Looks like they're building around Markakis, Roberts, Guthrie, Ray and Loewen... and Bedard if they keep him. Not a bad core for them at all. Good thing is that we own Chris Ray.
"My best pitch is anything the batter grounds, lines, or pops in the direction of Rizzuto" - Pitcher Vic Raschi
I agree, I think this is a pretty good deal for Baltimore.
"Sanchez" = Tejada?
Tejada is just the beginning.
Bedard (Mariners, Dodgers, or Reds) and Roberts (Cubs) are next with two to four of Hernandez/Mora/Millar/Huff/Payton gone as well; if not in the winter than by the deadline.
In what world is Pie, Morrow, and Sherrill worth Bedard, Roberts, and Bynum.
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