Non-logic logic. Uninteresting.Originally Posted by Mr. Mxylsplk
Non-logic logic. Uninteresting.
You're right, thanks for the laughs: http://www.baltimoresun2.com/talk/sh...ad.php?t=37124I love this quote by bobby: "When will I again see the baseball that I grew up , when the small market teams had just as much chance as the Yankees?"
You mean when you can expect the Yanks to be the AL team playing in the World Series about 80% of the time, bobby?
Jost Bobby being Bobby.
Mo' Nut: One Smoove Brotha.
Jaret Wright's 2005 Cy Young Season: 20-3, 3.04 ERA
bobby, jr: Bringing Yankee Fans & Red Sox Fans together since September 2002.
....
David Steele, Baltimore Sun Sports columnist calls 2005 the worst season in Orioles history, worse than the dreadfull ofer start in 1988.
Wm Rhoden, Times Coumnist, call for a consumer fraud investigation of the Orioles
bobby jr has been forever branded as the worst message board poster in the history of the internet.
OH BTW: The Yankees have 11 straight post season appearances, the Orioles have 10 post-seasons in their history. ESAD bobby jr
The first 3 sentences are right on.
Again, you somehow feel the need to put down the franchise, and not the poster. Give it a rest man, the O's fans do enough putting down of the franchise for the rest of the MLB.
Thank you.
A) BJ does not represent Orioles fandom. WHY DO YOU GUYS TREAT HIM AND ................ ON THE O'S LIKE HE *DOES*???
B) Please. We know we suck. Have you been to the Orioles Hangout lately? Go take a peek if you're so inclined (OH is THE spot for Orioles fandom). Like a local columnist said, its more a support group then sports message board. Is there anything to be gained by kicking dirt in this wound and stating the obvious?
--NewOrioleWork
I'll add that the baltimore sun forum is the same way, and also not a bad place for Oriole fandom (gotta represent).
That's not what he was saying. He's saying of those that they lost to the Sox and Yankees, 40% of those games were winnable.
Like if O's played 100 games against the Red Sox and Yankees and lost 60 of them, they had a good chance at winning 24 of those 60. So instead of winning 40 games, they could have won 40 + 24 = 64 games against the Red Sox and Yankees.
I didn't take it that way at all. I thought he was directly referring to the 11 games that they actually DID play against the Yankees and Orioles, 10 of which were lost. So instead of 1-10, he figures that it'd be inspirational if the Orioles had gone 4-7, or 5-6? Ugh.
"...it was blood, my blood, and it was coming from the sutures in my ankle. You’re either stupid or bitter if you think otherwise." --Curt Schilling on the Bloody Sock, 3/17/07
I think the Jays have a lot more to look forward to in the next couple of years then the Orioles considering having Halladay back in the regular rotation, the influx of the top notch farm system into the everyday lineup (Adams, Rios, Hill, McGowan...), increased salary and last but not least no Angelos.
I think the Jays and Rays both have brighter futures.
The Jays will be GREAT next year, IMO.
I was very impressed with them this season.
*I <3 Baseball*
2006=27
Dude, I must say that I like the fortunes of the Blue Jays for the next few years. Riccardi is one of the brightest G.M.'s you'll find, the team is really going to reap the benefits of their top-notch farm system really quickly, and as I understand, because of their stadium deal, they can expect an increase in team payroll. All these factors lead to some expectations of great things in the future for the Toronto Blue Jays.
They've got some really good young talent. If they can intelligently augment that talent, they're going to be really tough to beat- especially with the age that the Red Sox and Yankees are carrying on their respective rosters. The current A.L. East Heavyweights will have some tough decisions to make which could provide a window of oppurtunity for a smart and patient team like the Blue Jays.
Nevertheless, what's up with those unis?? They're the worst in baseball.
EDIT: I've drifted off the topic of the thread, I've noticed. In order to stay relatively close to the original topic, allow me to say that the Orioles profoundly suck, and will continue to profoundly suck as long as Peter Angelos is at the helm. Thank you and good night.
NYYFans.com Fantasy Baseball:
Rodents Of Unusual Size
"Pride. Power. Rat Poop."
[/QUOTE]
Nevertheless, what's up with those unis?? They're the worst in baseball.
[/QUOTE]
You are preaching to the choir, they are hideous!
For what it's worth, I've posted on other boards, including the Baltimore Sun site. I agree that posters like Elevation and Slidemaster are far more representative of the typical O's fan than is bobby. I don't deny bobby is a genuine fan, but he has a pollyanna view of the state of the O's that most O's fans don't share.
The Sun site is, in my opinion, one of the better free and open boards around. A good number of us NY "interlopers" have some great exchanges with some very smart O's fans.
As a NY fan, of course I want to dominate the O's. But as a baseball fan, I think it's a shame what Angelos has done to that franchise. Angelo may be a great litigator, but he's a lousy franchise owner.
He didn't say anything about inspiration. You did.
He's saying how many games were winnable.
And the number of winnable games is still 40%, in his example. He held that up as some sort of noteworthy, achievable goal. I remain unimpressed by anything except, perhaps, his candor in acknowledging that he's sitting on a .400 team.
"...it was blood, my blood, and it was coming from the sutures in my ankle. You’re either stupid or bitter if you think otherwise." --Curt Schilling on the Bloody Sock, 3/17/07
Angelos: Orioles' Tough Times Over. End Times Just Beginning.
Seriously. Baltimore deserves better than this clown. And his behavior over the move of the Nationals seems to demonstrate that the only way he could generate a profit in one of the largest metropolitan areas in the country was:
a) an enforced monopoly, or
b) corporate welfare.
I am impressed. Move over, Branch Rickey - Angelos gets your HoF slot!
Be seeing you,
Saxmania
Mayonnaise is a demanding master.
I have serious doubts sometimes about whether or not the O's will ever be able to fully recover from the damage done by this ownership. He's taken a fine franchise with a beautiful ballpark and systematically turned it into the embarrassment that it is today over the course of 8 torturous years. It's enough to make me sick.
Very true. I'm no Oriole fan but when I think of the years of sustained excellence they enjoyed, as a baseball fan, it does turn one's stomach to see this utter buffoon trash what was a great tradition.
Does anyone really believe (well, anyone other than bobby) that if the Orioles had the Yankees payroll, they would magically start making better decisions in regards to acquiring players? Money is a big help but, if your organization is headed by a dolt, King Solomon's mines won't make you a winner.
Sad, really. Great tradition, a wonderful ballpark, and loyal fans, should equal greater success. Put an arrogant dunce in command and watch it all go down the flusher.
NYYFans.com Fantasy Baseball:
Rodents Of Unusual Size
"Pride. Power. Rat Poop."
The interesting thing about it is that Angelos has more than enough money to bump the O's payroll to 100 mil or so, and still turn a profit. He gets money from the Nats because of that scam he pulled with the TV deal and the MLB, he's got a guaranteed selling price of 350 million, and according to Forbes magazine in 2004, no team in the MLB has a larger descrepency between the amount of money made and the amount put back in the team. In other words, the O's are making the most money in pure profit each year out of every team in the MLB. We HAVE the money, we (read: Angelos) chooses not to spend it because the saps will still fill the stands and buy the merchandise. Even if they didn't he's still got a sweetheart deal with the MLB and the Nats that ensures that even if not one fan set foot in OPACY ever again during Angelos' reign, he'd still turn a profit.
If the Nats make significant improvement next year, and the Blue Jays add payroll and Tampa continues it's improvement, the O's are going to become the Royals of the AL East for the forseeable future. Just the thought of going from one of the classes of the MLB to that is enough to make me weep.
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/a...=.jsp&c_id=mlb
Orioles fire Jim Beattie, co-GM and executive vice-president.
Sorry, bobby. Doesn't sound like the sign of a franchise on the way up. Not to mention that they're interviewing the Mets' assistant GM - one wonders whether he learned from the Kazmir fiasco.
Be seeing you,
Saxmania
Mayonnaise is a demanding master.
The Yankees are looking at the skipper for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. How is that different?
Anyway, Sam Perlozzo has been hired as the permanent manager.
Until the Orioles post a few seasons of consecutive playoff appearances, nothing they do matters. I am not enamoured with Sweet Lou as manager, it's time to get younger all around, the Yankees goal is to win. You can't say that about the Orioles under their present ownership. And until they demonstrate on field success and off field competence, they are not worth discussing, any more than it's timely to discuss Kansas City, Pittsburg and Tampa
FYI you're discussing them. And there's this entire thread that's for discussing them. Everything they do matters. They're current performance lets the Yankees go to the postseason.
As reported by Forbes magazine the total revenue of the Orioles revenues are significantly less than the Yankees payroll.
There is a problem with poor decisions like Sosa and Ponson as you mention but to insinuate that the Orioles can compete with the Yankees / Red Sox payrolls is laughable.
Why is it laughable? The 2003 Marlins didn't seem to have a problem competing with the Yankees and their payroll. For that matter, the Yankees lost the season series vs. the Tampa Bay Devil Rays this year despite a huge payroll advantage.
Never left the Betances bandwagon.
Ahem, you are totally misreading the quote. I don't think Angelos was saying that they can't build a team that can compete with the Red Sox or Yankees. What he's saying is that there is no way they can put a team together with a payroll anywhere near that of the Yankees or Red Sox.
But as to the larger point I'm not convinced that any team in the AL East has a legitimate shot to win the AL East without [A] either being incredibly lucky or [B] complete incompetence on the part of NY or BOS as long as baseball continues with an unbalanced schedule. Realistically the O's could probably swing a payroll of 80-90m, the Jays probably 70-80m and the Rays 40-50m. If the Yankees do a good job allocating a 200m payroll they should win the division every year. No team has ever spent 70+m more than every other team in baseball and not won their division and only with FO incompetence will that ever happen.
I think you make good points - and it will be interesting to see who is GMing in Boston and New York next year.
But I am not so sure that a team with a $200M payroll should necessarily be the automatic favorite over a team with a, say, $70-80-90M payroll. A $200 (or 130M) team is paying premiums for free agents (who are likely on a decline) while a team with an 80-90M payroll may be paying big salaries to a couple players with a bunch of other solid homegrown talents who are in their prime.
A good GM who knows how to manage a farm system coupled with an upper-middle class payroll is all it should take to win, IMO. That can easily beat out a higher-payroll team which is banking on veterans to put up the numbers they have in the past.
I'm not saying a $70-$90m payroll team can't win but I do believe it would require quite a bit of mistakes on the part of the team w/a $200m payroll and very good luck for the $70-90m team.
If for example the Yankees are willing to continue spending $200m+ a year once some of the really bad contracts come off the books a good GM should be able to build a team that wins at a minimum 95-100 games a year if the roster is managed w/any level of efficency.
What the Orioles and other teams in the AL East need is for baseball to go back to the balanced schedule so they have a fair shot at the wild card. They are at a signifciant disadvantage having to play the $200m+ and $130m payroll teams a combined 38 times a year while fighting for a wildcard slot against a team like Minnesota who gets KC and DET a combined 38 times a year and the Yankees and Red Sox maybe a combined 14 times a year.
But don't you think a team with such a high payroll automatically has some really bad contracts built in? That's kind of my point. It is very hard for a GM of a $200M payroll team not to make mistakes - they will be giving too much money to SEVERAL players - their advantage is that they can usually absorb those mistakes, to an extent.
You are right though, in that any 100+ million payroll should be winning 95+ games.
Agreed. Bring back the balanced schedule.What the Orioles and other teams in the AL East need is for baseball to go back to the balanced schedule so they have a fair shot at the wild card. They are at a signifciant disadvantage having to play the $200m+ and $130m payroll teams a combined 38 times a year while fighting for a wildcard slot against a team like Minnesota who gets KC and DET a combined 38 times a year and the Yankees and Red Sox maybe a combined 14 times a year.
Absolutely, I agree completly. But for instance if I was made GM I'd be willing to pay the high salaries but I wouldn't be giving out any 7-10 year contracts. Limit the pitchers to 3-4 years and position player to 5 years max. The big problem w/the Yankees is that in their big contracts they've locked players up well past their prime. Even if it means paying more per year avoid the really long term deals. They can gamble on players and that will lead to more bad contracts than with a team that can't afford to make a mistake but it can definately be a much more efficient roster than it is now where they have a payroll of more than $200m but need to rely so heavily on guys like Small etc...
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns
Seemed timely, with the next round of free agency about to hit. The MLB structure is apparently better for parity than a hard salary cap. Given that the 10th different team is about to fill a World Series slot over the last 6 years, and the 5th different team in the last 5 years is about to win the whole enchilada, bobby jr is factually incorrect.
Just in case anyone had been left in any doubt.
Be seeing you,
Saxmania
Mayonnaise is a demanding master.
That's almost hard to believe.
I'm chiming in a little late in the thread.....you're not likely to find a bigger Yankee fan and Angelos hater than me. I was at Ripken's 2131 game and watched the little turd take over the post-game festivities with a speech that was as self-absorbed as possible. I truly abhor the man.
But look out fellow Yankee fans. While the Tampa faction has created an overpriced mess of too-old, too-expensive, too-unathletic, me-first clean-up hitters, the saner teams in the division are threatening to make the Yankees a 4th place team next year.
Toronto has a great lineup, and if they add a pitcher, they will be extremely dangerous. And lay down the Oriole lineup next to the Yankees lineup, and you're hard-pressed to find a Yankee position player who would start for the Orioles -- then add Mazzone as the pitching coach. Yes, for far less salary,, it is not inconceivable that the Yankees could finish behind Boston, Toronto and Baltimore next year....and if Tampa is calling the shots, it could happen.
As far as salary is concerned, the Yankees spend it insanely. Right now, the World Series teams are the Astros, at $77 million salary, and the White Sox, at $75 million salary. If you combine those two teams, you would still need to add the Texas Rangers to approximate the Yankees' salary!
I would much rather that Big Stein pocket the extra dollars than open up the team for ridicule by outspending the entire rest of the planet and not winning. Why not force the baseball people to make smart moves like the teams that are winning every year?
Huh? 1B - Yanks, 2B - O's, dependent on Roberts' successful return, SS- O's, 3B - Yanks, LF - Yanks, CF - O's, RF - Yanks, C- O's. I'm not sure how that qualifies as being hardpressed.
The teams that are winning every year? What? Like the Astros and White Sox?
The Yankees have won their division 8 years in a row. They have made the playoffs 11 years in a row. They win a lot.
I think catcher is even.
AMEN YOU ARE PREACHING TO THE CHOIR
By "winning" I meant the world championship, which is the annual requirement for any team that outspends the rest of baseball by 2 or 3 times. That's the burden we bear with a $205 million payroll, which is unfortunately spent foolishly. Each of the last five years, teams with lower to far lower payolls have won the world championship.
Well, overall I'd take the O's. Certainly, the quality of their lineup for the dollar amount is superior to the Yankees. And if you want to argue position by position, well, I would prefer Mora and his salary at 3B over A-Rod, and I would certainly anybody they put at 1B next year over Giambi -- that's really the point, they have the flexibility to improve positions, and the Yankees really don't.
Their average age is 29 years and their salary is $75 million. Add Mazzone to those young pitchers, and they're going to make the the Yankees look silly next year after a winter of "fine-tuning" by the bungling idiots in Tampa.
Did I just blow your mind?
Be seeing you,
Saxmania
Mayonnaise is a demanding master.
You are backtracking. Your original post had nothing to do with salary:And lay down the Oriole lineup next to the Yankees lineup, and you're hard-pressed to find a Yankee position player who would start for the Orioles
~John
Thurman I appreciate your comments, but why do we care if the Yankee payroll is so much more than everyone else's? It's not our money. The only negative of this massive payroll is that if the Yankees lose, people can make fun of the Yankees "oh wow, look how much they spent". In the end, George writes the checks. I understand someone at some point is going to bring up the rising ticket prices, but I'm not concerned about that - - we pay a little more per ticket, while george is cutting $205 million worth of paychecks. They can't be compared.
Since 2001, the Yankees have won 95, 103, 101, 101, 95 games. That type of consistency is unheard of. As stated in another thread, the Braves, for all their dynastic ways, have 1 championship to show for it. Somehow, someway, they're referred to as a dynasty. Meanwhile, the Yanks have a 4 WS championships, numerous AL east crowns, and numerous pennants since '96 and are known as the Bronx bums. It just doesn't make sense. The yankees do what it takes to get to the playoffs, and once in the playoffs, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN in a short series. Luck begins to play a bigger role.
Perhaps that's what you should have said then. As it is, I don't know what the relevance of that is. No one in their right mind would argue that the yanks spend economically. But since things are awarded based on on-field performance, not performance per dollar, I'm not concerned. And as for your comment about them having payroll flexibility that the yanks do not, are you even familiar with how the two teams operate. Suggesting the O's will improve their team by spending is high comedy.
Well done. Couldn't have said it better myself.
No,NO, and no did i mention NO?
The Yankees will at worst finish second next year but i still think they take the division
C-Lopez
First-NYY
second-depends on if Roberts continue his fluke
short stop-Os but not by a lot
third-NYY by a mile
LF-NYY
CF-Depends on who we get
RF-Nyy
SP-NYY
Pen-depends on if we get Ryan on not
In keeping with other update posts on ALEast teams (Jays spending$$$, Rays fixing FO), respected columnist, Peter Schmuck sounds skeptical at best about the O's.
Let me get this straight. Orioles owner Peter Angelos said again recently that he was willing to do what is necessary to get the team back in the hunt in the American League East next year, and the first real peep out of the newly restructured front office is that the club is not willing to get involved in the big-money bidding for free-agent slugger Paul Konerko?Otherwise, the wishful whispering that top prospect Nick Markakis may be ready to be an impact outfielder soon just sounds like an excuse for hoarding all that new television money that is about to start raining on the team because of the great Mid-Atlantic Sports Network deal that secured a share of the Washington Nationals' broadcast revenues.http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/b...ck=1&cset=trueThey also have to be careful, however, that they send some clear signals to a frustrated fan base that has earned the right to be skeptical about the club's intentions.
The best excuse for avoiding the Konerko auction is the need to acquire an everyday catcher and move Javy Lopez either to first base or into a full-time designated hitter role.
If the Orioles make a successful run at either Ramon Hernandez or Bengie Molina, it all makes perfect sense. If they end up with Lopez still behind the plate in 2006 and no new impact hitter in the lineup, they'll be a third-place team - at best - no matter what they do to upgrade the pitching staff.
Like NYYFans.com??? Take the time to click an ad, remember to make Amazon purchases through the link that appears here, or better yet, just hit the paypal button. - Hans
Bingo.
Schmuck is a great columnist, as is Rick Maese, the new guy at the Baltimore Sun. Both have been scathing in their commentaries about Angelos' management of the team. It's put up or shut up time. Angelos has all the money in the world from his sweetheart DC deal, and there are obvious holes the team has that need filling. Get it done, or please, for the love of all the frustrated fans (like myself), sell the damned team, take your money, and get out.
Here's wishing LosErO Mazzone bad luck.
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