This is cute. In order to speed up the process in his desire to be traded, Payton generated an argument with his manager. Who in their right mind would want a player like this on their ballclub?
Payton "staged" fight
This is cute. In order to speed up the process in his desire to be traded, Payton generated an argument with his manager. Who in their right mind would want a player like this on their ballclub?
Payton "staged" fight
I wish Womack would scream on Joe, we could use some pitching.
Or he can shower and leave a game early, that worked for getting Mondesi out the door.Originally Posted by GimeMoMuny
sXe!
Autobots ROLL!!!
I don't know which is worse: staging a confrontation to get traded or admitting that you staged a confrontation to get traded. Theo got Bradford for this guy? What a steal.
00000000100000000000100000000001
It is what it is but it ain't what you think
I say we stomp him! Then we tattoo him! Then we hang him! And then we kill him!
I say we let him go.
Eh. Players have done worse things to get traded. Look at Sheffield.
He should have kept his mouth shut about it...not very cool...it would have been better PR wise for him if he just looked like he lost it in the heat of the moment because of frustration...
Wow you really dislike Gary Sheffield.
If I was ever a member of the Red Sox, I would do anything to get myself traded to any other team.
Ya gotta feel sorry for Jay. Not only was he on the Red Sox he was also on the Mets.
If I had 3 wishes... One of my wishes would be to make a select few of you Pirates Fans.
I don't like him, but I don't hate him or anything. Plus, I'm not lying about him. He admitted it so its on him.
I hope Jay finds the Oakland bench comfier than he found the one in Boston.
are you talking about the milwaukee thing? if so, they discussed that in an interview recently and it wasn't true...
It certainly was true and Sheffield admitted to it after he left. He might be denying it now but the damage is done.
It's not like Sheffield doesn't have a reputation for stirring up ................ in other places either. Ask Dodgers fans what they think about him.
RJ's issues in AZ last season appear premeditated to force a trade. This stuff happens all the time.
Like NYYFans.com??? Take the time to click an ad, remember to make Amazon purchases through the link that appears here, or better yet, just hit the paypal button. - Hans
hmm, nice to see you ND -- why am i not surprised you popped up when a yankee was mentioned.
if you're talking about him being vocal about wanting to be traded, that's true, but if you're talking about the two error game or whatever, if you go back and look in the box scores, apparently it wasn't true...and knowing sheff a little better like i do now, he's not above some bragidacchio (sp?) to make a point...a lot of guys have pushed for trades before...IMHO it's certainly not a reason to hate him...
So should the Yankees DFA Sheff over this?
It's our game, the American game... and a blessing to us. --Walt Whitman
Where do you get that notion?
Sheff admitted himself that he botched plays intentionally. He's a sh*tstirrer, that's a well-known fact.
"God, I hope I wear this jersey forever." - Derek Jeter
He admitted that he did some things when he was young that were immature, and that he regretted. So did alot of us.
I know I won't change your feelings, but I really don't understand your loathing of a guy who has done nothing as a Yankee but show up every day and produce.
OTOH, I understand ND's feelings perfectly.
He'll be even crankier once his alma mater starts losing football games again.
Like NYYFans.com??? Take the time to click an ad, remember to make Amazon purchases through the link that appears here, or better yet, just hit the paypal button. - Hans
Sheffield admitted it. He had no contrition at the time. If you want to buy into his revision of events years later, then that is your choice.
I'm confused. I only thought I showed up when a RED SOX player was mentioned? Which is it??hmm, nice to see you ND -- why am i not surprised you popped up when a yankee was mentioned.
if you're talking about him being vocal about wanting to be traded, that's true, but if you're talking about the two error game or whatever, if you go back and look in the box scores, apparently it wasn't true...and knowing sheff a little better like i do now, he's not above some bragidacchio (sp?) to make a point...a lot of guys have pushed for trades before...IMHO it's certainly not a reason to hate him...
Back to Sheffield
“The Brewers brought out the hate in me. I was a crazy man. . . . I hated everything about the place. If the official scorer gave me an error, I didn’t think was an error, I’d say, `OK, here’s a real error,’ and I’d throw the next ball into the stands on purpose.’ “
How can anyone think different to what Sheffield said? Why would you every say that you made errors if you didn't? That makes zero sense.
Let's look at the box scores from 1989. This is from a blog that went over the logs. It's not clear cut at all that either way. All we have is his own words.
http://futilityinfielder.com/blog/20...d-part-i.shtml
(1) April 23rd, 1989: Sheffield made an error in the second inning, then in the 5th, although the nature of the errors are unclear. He also handled a SB chance cleanly in the 4th.
(2) June 20th, '89: Sheffield made an error in the 6th, apparently on a relay throw. In the 10th, he made an error on a groundball, although the ball did not go into the stands (as the batter only reached first)
(3) May 15th, 1990: Sheffield made an error in the 2nd inning, then made another in the 8th, but he had already executed a run down sucessfully
(4) April 8, 1991 (Note: Not at County Stadium all others are): Sheffield made an error in the third, but handled his next groundball chance cleanly. Sheffield then made an error in the ninth.
In the first instance, the error in the fifth inning appears to be a throwing error after the batter more ensured himself of an infield hit. According to the play-by-play, with two outs and Alan Trammell on second, Matt Nokes singled to shortstop and Trammell "scored (unearned) (error by Sheffield)." Interesting.
In the second case, the first error was actually in the 7th inning. The "relay" part makes sense because the error followed a single to leftfield. The error in the tenth merely says "Seitzer reached on an error by Sheffield"; there's nothing that says whether it was a muffed ground ball, a dropped pop-up, or a throw that got by the first baseman but stayed on the field of play. That's pretty standard for Retrosheet, however, and both errors in the other two games suffer from the same lack of detail.
Without the benefit of videotape or a peek into his psyche, none of this is enough to either clear Sheffield of wrongdoing or damn him into the fiery pit of hell, of course. Aside from his own words, no one has come forth with any evidence to show that Sheffield intentionally made errors. But it is interesting to note that the last game came on Opening Day 1991, and one way or another Sheffield erred on his first chance of the season while playing a position he was less than enamored with. But suffice it to say that for his Milwaukee tenure, Sheffield was in a situation where he was young and foolish, the object of high expectations but with little support from his employer to ensure that those expectations were met.
Actually didn't Sheffield claim that he didn't boot the balls at all? I'm pretty sure he went for the total denial. Unless you are referring to another interview.
I know Sheffield apologized for his behavior in Milwaukee, and I don't really think it's an issue. I think the whole situation was brought up to illustrate that several players, one of which is beloved by a lot of Yankee fans, have done a lot worse than what Payton did to force a trade.He admitted that he did some things when he was young that were immature, and that he regretted. So did alot of us.
I know I won't change your feelings, but I really don't understand your loathing of a guy who has done nothing as a Yankee but show up every day and produce.
OTOH, I understand ND's feelings perfectly.
He'll be even crankier once his alma mater starts losing football games again.
And for the record, I don't loathe Gary Sheffield, I just think he's kind of a jerk. But he's a jerk in a Yankee uniform, so I'll root for him as long as he gives it 100% every night (I had my doubts about this the first few months of this season, BTW).
Lately, his actions in the past week or two have also done a lot to change my perception of him. His defense of A-Rod this week went a long way in my book.
"God, I hope I wear this jersey forever." - Derek Jeter
I will be incorrigible if that happens. 8 wins. Beat either scUM or the Condoms and all is well in the world.
He'll be even crankier once his alma mater starts losing football games again.
This is exactly why I brought up Sheffield. It is an appropriate example of a player doing something worse to force a trade. Staging a confrontation like Payton is simply not a big deal in comparison to what Sheffield did.
Just to be sure, I was being sarcastic. I love Sheff.
It's our game, the American game... and a blessing to us. --Walt Whitman
Not to hijack this, but I'll say under 7.5, loser donate 20$ to this site.
And I know that recruiting went well. The future looks better, and this may be one of my last chances for a while to enjoy a subpar season.
Like NYYFans.com??? Take the time to click an ad, remember to make Amazon purchases through the link that appears here, or better yet, just hit the paypal button. - Hans
No problem, I can't argue that your opinions aren't based on some facts. i would point out that all of gary's issues have been with managment, and that all of his ex-teammates (including Dodgers and Braves) speak very highly of him as a teammate.
Back on topic, I agree that what Payton did happens all the time. Just last year, both Randy Johnson and Sammy Sosa forced trades with similar behavior.
Like NYYFans.com??? Take the time to click an ad, remember to make Amazon purchases through the link that appears here, or better yet, just hit the paypal button. - Hans
hehe -- to me, it's generally one of two scenariosI'm confused. I only thought I showed up when a RED SOX player was mentioned? Which is it??
1) Red Sox player or affiliate is mentioned with even a hint of a negativity, and you will be there to counteract with a Yankee player, affiliate or circumstance, instead of just debating the point at hand.
2) Yankee player, affiliate, etc is mentioned with a hint of negativity and you're there, not to counteract with a Red Sox equivalent, but to gleefully add on to the Yankee negativity.
In this case, it was scenario 2.
You might be joking but some people actually think this.hehe -- to me, it's generally one of two scenarios
1) Red Sox player or affiliate is mentioned with even a hint of a negativity, and you will be there to counteract with a Yankee player, affiliate or circumstance, instead of just debating the point at hand.
2) Yankee player, affiliate, etc is mentioned with a hint of negativity and you're there, not to counteract with a Red Sox equivalent, but to gleefully add on to the Yankee negativity.
In this case, it was scenario 2.
I was talking people off the ledge yesterday when Wang's injury was announced.
I try and contribute in the Minors thread and my knowledge of Yankee prospects is better than 95% of the people on here IMO. I go to FSL games all the time, talk to scouts and have seen the Tampa Yankees six times this year and Trenton twice. I'm addicted to BA and BP and have pronounced my splooging for Eric Duncan.
I dislike Gary Sheffield and it so happens he plays for the Yankees. I also disliked Derek Lowe when he played for the Red Sox and never hid that on here.
I wish some people (not you) could get past the fact I root for the Red Sox and realize I'm pretty damn knowledgable and contribute to this board on a daily basis.
I think a lot of people discreetly appreciated your voice of reason when the Wang injury broke. Unfortunately, the prospect of losing such a good pitcher at a critical juncture made it difficult for people to be reasonable. Yesterday was a particularly bad day for Yanks-Sox relations as things got particularly shrill. My suggestion is to not take it personally and understand that Yankee fans can sound just as ridiculous and immature as their Boston counterparts.
SI: Do you have a secret ambition?
Igawa: That's secret.
"They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees
I don't take it personally at all. I only get pissed when people who bring "nothing" to this board, dismiss me out of hand as a troll. More frustration than anything else.
Back to the topic...
Payton got his wish. Now he can bat .220 in Oakland with more at bats. Good luck to him.
Believe me, the people who blindly dismiss you as a troll are not especially representative of the rest of us.
As per Payton, I think he is going to be Terrence Long 2.0 in Oakland -- not sure what Beane was thinking with that one.
SI: Do you have a secret ambition?
Igawa: That's secret.
"They should just practice during the regular season and show up for the playoffs -Ichiro on the Yankees
Right now it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about him other than Yankees fans. The same could be said about Schilling. Ask not only what the Phils and D'Backs fans think about him, but his very own ex-teammates on those clubs. Does it matter to you that he was seriously disliked and that they celebrated his departure?
Are you also forgetting and does it trouble you that Schilling wormed his way out of Philly and more recently the D'Backs; that he practically begged to play for only two teams - his former club (Phils) and the Yanks, while still under contract in AZ?
I wouldn't it would trouble you or taint your image of him. Likewise, Sheff's past doesn't affect what most Yankees fans think about him. BTW, the person here that's most vocal about his dislike for Sheff also said that he's not having a productive season in another thread.
Please tell me you're not comparing Schilling being a media whore and asking for a trade to a contender versus a player who purposely makes errors on the field to get traded. Players ask to be traded all the time. They don't make errors to get out of town.
All biases aside Dooley, please tell me you can see the dramatic difference there.
To me this has nothing to with who Sheffield plays for. I've hated him ever since he admitted to making errors intentionally.
No no no. We're far better at everything so we must be better at sounding ridiculous and immature as well.
Seriously, as much as I like pushing his buttons about football, mistaking ND for a troll would be ...well ... a mistake.
Like NYYFans.com??? Take the time to click an ad, remember to make Amazon purchases through the link that appears here, or better yet, just hit the paypal button. - Hans
We have to straighten something out here. That supposed intentional error (not errors) that Sheffield made, was not to get traded, but to end an extra-inning game that went into the wee hours of the morning. That's how the story went.
For one, I have to believe Sheff when he said he made that story up. Why shouldn't I? Not because of my bias, but because Sheff, especially in his younger years, used to say some outrageous things while spontaneously shooting off his mouth. He's since matured, though when he does say things that make people's eyes roll, it's just his expressing how he feels at that moment and I'm sure those opinions frequently change. Where most people would think before they say such outrageous things, even if it's expressing what they actually believe, Sheff just goes with it. Personally, I find that more refreshing and entertaining than a Jeter cliché.
I also find it more refreshing and palatable than somebody who's a pretentious media whore who rubs fans and teammates the wrong way, while at the same time begging to play elsewhere - twice, no less. It's ironic that he ended up on a team that wasn't on his wish list.
Chipper Jones, one of the nicer guys in baseball, swears by Sheff - not only his baseball abilities, but his character and heart. From what I've seen and heard from Sheff, I have to agree.
The ONLY time my bias comes into play here is that while Sheff wanted to be traded from the other teams he's played for, when recent rumors surfaced, he said he wanted to stay a Yankee, and would fight tooth and nail to remain in pinstripes. As a Yankee's fan, that's alright by me, considering that he's one of the better and more dangerous (vicious is a better description) clutch hitters in the game.
Someone starts a thread about Jay Payton and 90% of the subsequent posts are about Gary Sheffield. WTF
Last edited by NelsonMuntz; 07-16-05 at 11:29 AM.
Never left the Betances bandwagon.
When does he stage a confrontation with Macha and get traded to the Brewers?
Cheetos
EDIT: I hate you guys.
There is a tight core of Red Sox fans who post here. They wait for any mention of the Red Sox shown in the least bit of favorable light and they jump all over that Thread. Spin City.Someone starts a thread about Jay Payton and 90% of the subsequent posts are about Gary Sheffield. WTF
If I had 3 wishes... One of my wishes would be to make a select few of you Pirates Fans.
a yankee fan mentioned sheffield......
screw payton, he could have been a great tool for the sox....oh well
The operative word is TOOL.
Cheetos
EDIT: I hate you guys.
There's really no excuse for what Payton did. Even Don Orsillo, who's been his friend for a while (since AA) said what he did was completely wrong. I'm just amazed Theo was able to get Bradford for him.
As for the Sheffield thing, a lot of people do things they regret when they're young.
A Yankee fan that has a strong dislike for Sheff for some reason.
...but what does that have to do with my point?
If I had 3 wishes... One of my wishes would be to make a select few of you Pirates Fans.
Did you mean to imply that Sox fans just had to discuss Sheff here to somehow distract from a topic that is negative for the Sox? b/c that's how it came across.
Don't let the facts stand in your way. You're on a roll.
Pehaps you can read the thread again and then IM YankeeFan1 for her bringing up of Sheffield. I don't see one Red Sox fan defending Payton in here either. But then again, that wouldn't help your "thesis" would it?
Tight group of Red Sox fans???l I didn't realize we were having meetings and discussing talking points for the board. Why wasn't I invited???
Tight group of Red Sox fans???l I didn't realize we were having meetings and discussing talking points for the board. Why wasn't I invited???
You don't bring healthy snacks anymore. Sorry.
Cheetos
EDIT: I hate you guys.
Three Sox fans jump on me in a row. I guess I'm wrong.
If I had 3 wishes... One of my wishes would be to make a select few of you Pirates Fans.
Even if the Yankee fan hadn't brought up Sheff, it's inevitable that a Red Sox fan would have, most likely with the very tired "Gary Sheffield says hi" shtick, with a "don't let the facts get in the way" throw in somewhere just for good measure.
Never left the Betances bandwagon.
No. No.
I'm wrong. I have seen the error of my ways. The Red Sox fans do not jump into the Threads that have bad things to say about the Red Sox. There is no spinning. I was wrong. I'm big enough to admit it.
I know I'm wrong because they told me I was wrong.
If I had 3 wishes... One of my wishes would be to make a select few of you Pirates Fans.
Sorry for asking you whether you were saying what I thought you were saying. I can't believe I dared do that...
Weren't most of the posts re. Sheff by Yankees fans, too?
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