Brian Cashman on 1050 ESPN Radio

[yanksphan]

Yeah, instead of paying too much money, we lose Sheffield.

OK then, who do you suggest we move to help improve our team?

[USF Yankee]

Not saying I wouldn't move sheffield, just not for some one we can pick up later. I would rather overpay some one than lose an asset like Sheff for a try out. If we could get TWO solid OF and one RP for Sheff, I say do it.

[Clemens831]

Which is the advantage to trading for him instead of waiting for FA. We get a half season's preview before throwing a bunch of money at him.

But do you really think the Yanks will operate like that? You know that if they acquire him, as soon as they do, he'll be signed long term to a big contract.

[yanksphan]

Not saying I wouldn't move sheffield, just not for some one we can pick up later. I would rather overpay some one than lose an asset like Sheff for a try out. If we could get TWO solid OF and one RP for Sheff, I say do it.

Ahh...that's where we aren't on the same page. In no way do I see moving Sheff as the ONLY move we make. I believe it will be the first in a series of moves.

I agree, we need to get as MUCH as we can for him. I think Burnett and Encarn is a pretty damn good package. We need OF help and SP help. Burnett is a Clement-style pitcher, so honestly, I see no problems with him coming here. My point about the try-out is on the off chance that he does sh*t the bed, we aren't 'locked in' to another immovable contract.

Chances are, we'll be pretty happy with Burnett in pinstripes.

[yanksphan]

But do you really think the Yanks will operate like that? You know that if they acquire him, as soon as they do, he'll be signed long term to a big contract.

Nah - remember, there seems to have been a changing of the guard in our FO.

I think AJ would also like to wait until the season plays out before signing an extension. Not to consider splitting to another team, but to concentrate on the task at hand - #27.

[YankeeFan1]

Ahh...that's where we aren't on the same page. In no way do I see moving Sheff as the ONLY move we make. I believe it will be the first in a series of moves.

I agree, we need to get as MUCH as we can for him. I think Burnett and Encarn is a pretty damn good package. We need OF help and SP help. Burnett is a Clement-style pitcher, so honestly, I see no problems with him coming here. My point about the try-out is on the off chance that he does sh*t the bed, we aren't 'locked in' to another immovable contract.

Chances are, we'll be pretty happy with Burnett in pinstripes.

Great assessment of the situation. People keep acting as if anyone open to trading Sheffield have something against him personally. The Yankees have to trade "somebody" to improve this team and they can get the most back for Sheffield who is the only player who can realistically be traded.

[SINCE77 2]

Ahh...that's where we aren't on the same page. In no way do I see moving Sheff as the ONLY move we make. I believe it will be the first in a series of moves.

I agree, we need to get as MUCH as we can for him. I think Burnett and Encarn is a pretty damn good package. We need OF help and SP help. Burnett is a Clement-style pitcher, so honestly, I see no problems with him coming here. My point about the try-out is on the off chance that he does sh*t the bed, we aren't 'locked in' to another immovable contract.

Chances are, we'll be pretty happy with Burnett in pinstripes.

Well put. This trade allows flexibility. I wanted Burnett for Vaz during the offseason anyway. Juan is better than Womack and in the scheme of things, thats all that matters. I agree that a followup move would be in order after this supposed speculative trade took place. However, if we are to utilize our prospects on subsequent trades (CF), then I would prefer the Yankees get younger than Kotsay. Wells or Bradley would be my targets.

[BronxByTheBay]

Burnett is a Clement-style pitcher, so honestly, I see no problems with him coming here.

Can you f*cking believe we're saying this now after all the Pavano vs. Clement threads we had here since December?

Sigh. I'll say it again: I f*cking hate that Epstein is more lucky than good.

[SoxfaninNY]

Can you f*cking believe we're saying this now after all the Pavano vs. Clement threads we had here since December?

Sigh. I'll say it again: I f*cking hate that Epstein is more lucky than good.

When it happens again and again and again, you have to start questioning just how much of it is luck.

(yes, yes, I know Theo pursued Pavano first.)

[wjf50]

Why dont we go after Milton Bradley?

[upstate13]

Milton Bradley.....Lofton worked out well?........the guy is in anger management NO WAY that would be the end of the clubhouse, atleast now the team can co-exsist Bradley would destroy that

[MTYankee23]

Milton Bradley.....Lofton worked out well?........the guy is in anger management NO WAY that would be the end of the clubhouse, atleast now the team can co-exsist Bradley would destroy that

He's an FA after this year, I think he actually resembles Sheffield most personality wise. He COULD be worth a look in CF, unfortunately, I'm guessing DePo is going to want the same type of players in return that Beane was looking for.

[BronxByTheBay]

When it happens again and again and again, you have to start questioning just how much of it is luck.

(yes, yes, I know Theo pursued Pavano first.)

If Theo had gotten his way, Manny wouldn't be on your team, Magglio Ordonez would, you'd have Javier Vazquez instead of Curt Schilling, Jose Contreras would have already been dumped for salary (along with Kim), and Carl Pavano would have the worst BAA in the AL playing for the Sox instead of us.

So yeah...I'm thinking luck is the biggest factor here.

[nyymt62]

Why dont we go after Milton Bradley?

He is on the disabled list right now. If the Yanks are going to pick up a centerfielder by the deadline my top two would be Vernon Wells and Juan Pierre. Pierre is having a dreadful season and we may be able to get him for less. He would be great at the top of the lineup. I'm not to sure about his arm in center though.

[SoxfaninNY]

If Theo had gotten his way, Manny wouldn't be on your team, Magglio Ordonez would, you'd have Javier Vazquez instead of Curt Schilling, Jose Contreras would have already been dumped for salary (along with Kim), and Carl Pavano would have the worst BAA in the AL playing for the Sox instead of us.

So yeah...I'm thinking luck is the biggest factor here.

If manny wasn't on the team, Maggs would be, sure-- but did you forget that so would Arod? Contreras- I agree with you - bullet dodged. Pavano- who knows what his BAA would be with a Major League outfield behind him. and I think Clement would be here regardless.

Luck a factor? sure. but hardly the biggest. Ortiz, Arroyo, Mueller, the Nomar trade, Bellhorn, Foulke (2004 at least)... I'm sure that was all just luck as well.

[NelsonMuntz]

Pierre is having a dreadful season and we may be able to get him for less. He would be great at the top of the lineup. I'm not to sure about his arm in center though.

Great at what -- not getting on base? We've already got a Womack for that. And I am pretty sure about his arm -- it stinks.

[StaceyRosie]

Translation: Sheff is very available for trade.

Exactly my read, amico mio.

Cash could make that statement and trade him, and he wouldn't be lying.

Hmmm and here is the actual quote:

"I wasn't troubled by any of [Sheffield's comments]," Cashman said. "Here's a player that wants to stay here, wants to be here, and I appreciate that. In Sheff's case, he's more a part of the solution than any of the problems we're currently having."

[YankeeFan1]

Milton Bradley.....Lofton worked out well?........the guy is in anger management NO WAY that would be the end of the clubhouse, atleast now the team can co-exsist Bradley would destroy that

Bradley would be a good signing for the Yankees. All his teammates like him and is good in the clubhouse. Plus, he hasn't had serious troubles since last season. If available the Yankees should sign him.

[yanksphan]

Can you f*cking believe we're saying this now after all the Pavano vs. Clement threads we had here since December?

To be honest, I wasn't too active in those threads. I wanted to support Pavano, because he was our guy - but something just told me we might have picked the wrong dude.

But - a HALF season proves nothing. Those are good size contracts, and hopefully the Pavano vs Clement debates continue for years.

[BigYankeeUnit]

Encarnacion would be like us throwing Womack in the deal, he's not good..

Hardly. The guy is no sheff but he is stepping it up this year

.270 11HR 43rbi. Hardly deserving of a comparison with womack!!!!!!1

[Chairman-of-TheBoard]

How does that deal look good? Encarnacion stinks. Burnett is a FA after this season anyway. Why would we trade an offensive machine for that? That deal doesn't help, it HURTS.

I don't get it either. Encarnacion is a down-grade in RF. Sheff should be the last guy we want to be traded.

[Shadowblade225]

Hardly. The guy is no sheff but he is stepping it up this year

.270 11HR 43rbi. Hardly deserving of a comparison with womack!!!!!!1

and his obp isnt lower than most people's averages

[Fenrir]

I don't get it either. Encarnacion is a down-grade in RF. Sheff should be the last guy we want to be traded.

I could counter with the fact that Womack is 5th in the AL in steals even with his horrible hitting.

But I don't like him enough to do that.

[yanksphan]

I don't get it either. Encarnacion is a down-grade in RF. Sheff should be the last guy we want to be traded.

It wont be the only trade.

[Mystic Merlyn]

That offense > defense theory is exactly why the Yankees are in the predicament they are in. Our starting rotation consists of 4 (FOUR!) groundball pitchers, and we have arguably the worst defensive team in the majors. Can you honestly expect Moose, Pavano, Brown and Wang to be effective with such a creaky defense behind them???

Well it becomes a problem when your entire team is horrible defensively, save Jeter and A-Rod (who has been disappointing this year). In the Sox case, Manny is below average, but Damon's range and the small LF at Fenway mask his deficiencies. It is fine to have a few bad defensive players that can hit well, but when you have 3 or 4, you are in trouble.

[Mystic Merlyn]

To be honest, I wasn't too active in those threads. I wanted to support Pavano, because he was our guy - but something just told me we might have picked the wrong dude.

But - a HALF season proves nothing. Those are good size contracts, and hopefully the Pavano vs Clement debates continue for years.

I have thought about this and I agree. It's not fair to say that Pavano was a bad decision and Clement was a good one. It looks that way now, but it will become more clear what is really the case in a few years.

[JeffWeaverFan]

I have thought about this and I agree. It's not fair to say that Pavano was a bad decision and Clement was a good one. It looks that way now, but it will become more clear what is really the case in a few years.

If you looked at the raw statistics, one could see Clement had the better chance of success.

[Shadowblade225]

I doubt Clement will keep this up. Now he is a great pitcher and was underrated as as all hell. However he isnt the type of guy to contend for the CY Young(at least on a consistant basis) IMO.

[Mystic Merlyn]

If Theo had gotten his way, Manny wouldn't be on your team, Magglio Ordonez would, you'd have Javier Vazquez instead of Curt Schilling, Jose Contreras would have already been dumped for salary (along with Kim), and Carl Pavano would have the worst BAA in the AL playing for the Sox instead of us.

So yeah...I'm thinking luck is the biggest factor here.

You're right about luck being a MAJOR factor in Theo's success. However, he has been adept at some signings such as Bellhorn, Mueller, Ortiz and the trade for Arroyo. These guys were all picked up off the scrap heap and have become solid and even great (Ortiz). While I think Theo's success needs to be taken with a grain of salt, one cannot ignore his good signings and trades.

[Mystic Merlyn]

If you looked at the raw statistics, one could see Clement had the better chance of success.

Exactly. I argued that until I had no voice left in the offseason in multiple threads on this very board. I cited his high K rates and such, and I have been proven correct thus far. I think that Clement will continue to outpitch Pavano, but my point was that it is way too early to make a distinction.

[JeffWeaverFan]

You're right about luck being a MAJOR factor in Theo's success. However, he has been adept at some signings such as Bellhorn, Mueller, Ortiz and the trade for Arroyo. These guys were all picked up off the scrap heap and have become solid and even great (Ortiz). While I think Theo's success needs to be taken with a grain of salt, one cannot ignore his good signings and trades.

A lot of those guys would not have been signed if Theo had gotten his way originally and signed Contreras. He signed those guys with the money he didn't use for Contreras.

[yanksphan]

If you looked at the raw statistics, one could see Clement had the better chance of success.

You could say the same thing about Contreras.

I agree though, Clement's style of pitching is more condusive to being an AL pitcher, but who knows what the future will bring. Maybe we strengthen our middle-D to Pavano's benefit. Maybe a new coach. Or maybe Pavano just finds himself.

[Mystic Merlyn]

Pitchers obviously do have an effect on whether a team wins or loses.

Get back to me when they start putting up monuments in parks for pitchers because thay have incredible VORP's

Really? They affect whether their team wins or loses?

Thanks for enlightening me.

Of course the media and casual fans will continue to pontificate W-L records, but it doesn't mean it is relevant. What is popular isn't always correct.

[Mystic Merlyn]

A lot of those guys would not have been signed if Theo had gotten his way originally and signed Contreras. He signed those guys with the money he didn't use for Contreras.

I haven't heard that.....I am not saying you are wrong, but I don't think the couple million dollars would be a pushing point for Theo. Bellhorn was signed for next to nothing, Ortiz had a contract under $5 million, and Mueller signed for a couple of million.

[yanksphan]

I haven't heard that.....I am not saying you are wrong, but I don't think the couple million dollars would be a pushing point for Theo. Bellhorn was signed for next to nothing, Ortiz had a contract under $5 million, and Mueller signed for a couple of million.

Ortiz really is Theo's shiniest trophy to date.

[cy51]

I don't understand this...
Stanton was awful, but he did a fine job against lefties. It was the righties that crushed him.

if my memory serves my right, we seem to have a pitcher called f-rod...

should we just him at the same time?

[JeffWeaverFan]

You could say the same thing about Contreras.

I agree though, Clement's style of pitching is more condusive to being an AL pitcher, but who knows what the future will bring. Maybe we strengthen our middle-D to Pavano's benefit. Maybe a new coach. Or maybe Pavano just finds himself.

Well, since he pitched in Cuba and never in the majors, it's tough to say, but that's fair as he was a strikeout pitcher.

The Yankees had to realize that Pavano was severely helped by his defense last season and that that he Yankees defense is crap - to put it nicely. They need guys that make bats miss and not rely in their defense. They also need a pitching coach that doesn't preach pitchers to rely on their defense.

[ChewieTobbacca]

1 Part Pitchers that Rely on Defnese
1 Part Pitching Coach that tells Pitchers to Rely on Defense
1 Part Terrible Defense

Result: A terrible mess.

[Captain Yankee]

Its been rumored that Juan Encarnacion could be flipped to Oakland to acquire Mark Kotsay---however I don't think it would take Gary Sheffield to acquire Juan Encarnacion. We could acquire him and package him with a prospect to acquire Kotsay from Oakland. Or we could do the same for Cameron/Wilson.

[mik3]

What would Beane want with a guy making too much and is a free agent at the end of the year?
Hey, I want Duncan, Hughes, and Wang. But hey, I'll take Encarnacion.

[StatenIslandYankee]

What would Beane want with a guy making too much and is a free agent at the end of the year?
Hey, I want Duncan, Hughes, and Wang. But hey, I'll take Encarnacion.

He doesn't.

[Quangormo]

Encarnacion stinks.

This is fanspeak for "Encarnacion is not a marquee superstar."

[27IsNext]

This is fanspeak for "Encarnacion is not a marquee superstar."

You may not need superstars at every position, but you sure as heck need good players at every position.

[Quangormo]

Braves sure as a hell don't need an outfielder. Their boy Andruw Jones is tearing it up, Ryan Langerhans is proving to be very, very good, and Kelly Johnson is also holding his own for a 23 year old with no ML experience. They don't need outfielders...at all. They need to get their starters back and healthy, then they'll be back atop their division.

Don't count on that. The Nationals aren't going away, and Bowden is looking to add talent. I'm not as sold on Langerhans or Johnson as you are.

[Quangormo]

FINALLY someone with some sense. Its not even an argument of who we could get: HES NOT AVAILABLE, PERIOD. This guy is easily the most underappreciated Yankee on the team.

I've been defending Sheffield since the day I came to this board against all the haters. This site is teeming with angry anti-Gary fans. The reasons usually given are: He's a "cancer" in the clubhouse, He's lazy, he's a horrible fielder, he's old, I dont like him personally etc etc etc

Its all a bunch of nonsense. Sheffield is not only among the top 10 hitters in baseball, he is a cherised trophy player and a Steinbrenner favorite who simply needs to be with the team when we win a championship to be officially named a "True Yankee" and "Warrior" by Big Stein.

In his tirade the other day, Sheff essentially promised to be a clubhouse cancer, as he has been everywhere he has played. We would hav been better off to sign Guerrero. But Vlad isn't Doc Gooden's nephew, which is all that seemed to matter to George.

[Quangormo]

Tis true. The only problem with Stanton was Joe's managerial style.

Send him to Washington for Joe Horgan.

[Quangormo]

You know, the Braves were trying to get our signing of Sheff voided. While Langerhans and Kelly Johnson have been pretty good so far, they are unproven and I'm sure the Braves would take Gary back in a heartbeat.

Unfortunately, there is no one that they have who could replace Sheff offensively or in RF. The best available OF is probably Adam Dunn of the Reds.

Now, the Reds want to get younger and cheaper. Boy, do the Braves have prospects!

I wonder if it would be worth considering a three-way deal that sends Sheff to Atlanta, a couple of young players such as Wilson Betemit and a young arm to the Reds, and Dunn and maybe a pitcher to us?

[ieddyi]

Well it becomes a problem when your entire team is horrible defensively, save Jeter and A-Rod (who has been disappointing this year). In the Sox case, Manny is below average, but Damon's range and the small LF at Fenway mask his deficiencies. It is fine to have a few bad defensive players that can hit well, but when you have 3 or 4, you are in trouble.

Baseball Prospectus has the Yankees as 27 th in defensive efficiency (.674 )
Boston is 23 (.684 )
So, if our "whole team is horrible defensively", the Sawx are barely better.

[ieddyi]

You've fallen victim to argumentum ad antiquitatem. If people honor it in the past as a worthwhile statistic it must be commendable and worthwhile as a statistic today as well.


If 50 years ago you asked a fan whether they considered OBP a valid measure of a player's value they'd look at you as if you had 3 heads. Today it's widely considered a valid statistic. So no one really knows.

I say why not honor those with high VORPs. Those with high VORPs translate to great players in any of the other more traditional data sets.

My point was not that the stat is invalid, just that putting up plaques for people w/ high vorp is NOT gonna happen.

You fallen victim to stathead hubris/ lack of sense of humor

[ieddyi]

If manny wasn't on the team, Maggs would be, sure-- but did you forget that so would Arod? Contreras- I agree with you - bullet dodged. Pavano- who knows what his BAA would be with a Major League outfield behind him. and I think Clement would be here regardless.

Luck a factor? sure. but hardly the biggest. Ortiz, Arroyo, Mueller, the Nomar trade, Bellhorn, Foulke (2004 at least)... I'm sure that was all just luck as well.

Actually, the Nomar trade, which turned your season around had a big luck component as well. They had offered him a $60M/4 year deal that he stupidly turned down. YOU would have had Ordonez and Nomar collecting big money on the DL. Ortiz vastly outperformed anybodys expectations. They did scout him well, but no body knew he was gonna be that type of monster, so there was a component of luck there