BA top 100
Im assuming Duncan's the only Yankee prospect present.
BA top 100
Im assuming Duncan's the only Yankee prospect present.
Seems like they're releasing it in pieces throughout the week. Duncan could be there. Also Cano and Wang, since they're closer to the majors.Originally Posted by KeepClaussen
I see no scenario where Wang will be there considering whos on the list so far. It's gonna be Duncan and thats it. I wouldnt rank Cano over any of the guys listed so far
espn insider has the entire list up on its website. eric duncan comes in at 36 (and is the only yankee to make it). what's interesting though, is joaquin arias (part of the a-rod trade) comes in at 77, go figure.
Yeah I don't get Arias making the list he doesnt seem all that exciting to me.
He projects as a great defender with at least gap power and he already excels at hitting for average and is improving his strike zone control. Perfectly reasonable choice.
"I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff
You have to consider it this way.....the only guys that have a chance were Duncan, Cano, Hughes (top 3). So, with that being said, Duncan looks like the only one that will make it.
Just curious, anyone know where Navarro came in?
didnt make the list. While Hanley was #10, Brandon Moss at #72, and Papelbon at 91.
Other great ones, Navarro not on the list but Quiroz at #79. Ridiculous
This plus the Red Sox being ranked ahead of the Yankees when the organizational rankings come out (i know its gonna happen), will make me glad i didnt waste my money on a subscription.
Please don't lose sleep mover these lists.If you look over the past years lists you'll see they don't add up too much.Remember BA listed Rubin Rivera baseballs top prospect for 2 years.
It just sucks how we'll have to hear about how bad the system is again for another year, because god's gift to scouting said it sucks.
Give me a reason why the Red Sox WOULDN'T be ranked ahead of the Yankees?
And who would you, honestly, rank the Yankees ahead of?
Maybe the Red Sox *gasp* just have a slightly better minor league system.
Slightly? The Red Sox have worked themselves up to the 16-20 range, while NYY is 28-30
The Red Sox will be 21st.
Interview with Jim Callis of BA
JC: When our Prospect Handbook comes out (any day now), the Red Sox will be 21st in our organization talent rankings. That's the highest we've had them since the beginning of the 2000 season, when they also ranked 21st. The Red Sox have a chance to jump significantly up the rankings this year, not only because they have a lot of draft picks but also because a lot of their best prospects have proven themselves only at the lower levels. If guys like Brandon Moss, Jon Papelbon, Jon Lester, Anibal Sanchez and Co. continue to develop like they did in 2004, the system will look a lot better.
Yup, around there. 21 is right.
oh jeez give me a break.
I forgot you guys have so many high ceiling prospects like Kelly Strikeout ShoppachJohn Manuel: Well, we've had a billion versions of this question, good way to finish up. I think the Yankees have better depth to their system right now than the Red Sox, mostly because of their 2004 draft and the arms the Yankees brought in. But I like the top of the Red Sox' system better. There's no Hanley Ramirez in the Yanks' system, and I like some of Boston's top 10 arms (Papelbon, Lester, A. Sanchez, Delcarmen) better than the Yankees' guys because they all have had some success at higher levels. I'm not as big a Brandon Moss fan as some, but Moss and Luis Soto are nice bats for the Sox, and I'd take Shoppach over Navarro. So at the top, I think the Sox are in better shape. Overall depth, I'd give the edge to the Yankees. Not trying to play both sides; just being honest.
Yeah, Kelly Shoppach. Who has had one bad year. His IsoD was still an awesome .087. Even in a down year he hit 22 HR. His isolated numbers were outstanding with the already mention .087 isolated discipline, and his isolated power was .228.
His defense is already phenominal, and he is MLB ready. He was battling injuries last year as well.
He has already proven that he can make good contact, great for a catcher. His plate discipline is good enough that even if he hit .250, his OBP will be .350.
But, I forgot. You guys don't know much about judging minor league catchers. Like Dioner Navarro, the one-year wonder who was going to be the next Ivan Rodriguez. He had one flukey contact year, and his isolated stats showed his OBP and SLG relied completely on his contact.
Dioner had 47 walks in 391 ABs between AA & AAA while Shoppach had 46 in 399 ABs. Shoppach hit for much more power but struck out more than twice as much and was 4 years older than Navarro. But then again the Red Sox are obviously better so forget what i said. No respect rite?
Isn't Kelly Shopach in his 30's?
He walks 10 more times/162 with twice as much power. It isn't even a contest. Dioner needs to rely on the contact he hasn't had but one year.
But he is many years older, which completely alters the equation.
Nothing to say
The Red Sox obviously don't have much confidence in Shoppach because they not only signed Varitek for 4 years but they signed his backup for two more years as well. Shoppach is trade bait at this point.
They don't have confidence because they signed one of the best catchers in the league, and the only catcher we have in the system who has a clue about Wakefield? You can't just let Tek walk, it doesn't mean Shopp isn't great.
That's some sterling analysis there.
In an earlier post, you mocked Baseball America for ranking the Red Sox's system ahead of NY's, but then in defense of your position you just cited....Baseball America.
BA has Boston's system ranked 21st out of 30, which means it's not very good. I would imagine the Yankees will be just behind them, which seems about right.
Shoppach will be 25 this month. If the Red Sox believed he was going to be a good starting catcher in the major leagues, they wouldn't have gone to 4 years with Varitek or they wouldn't have signed Mirabelli for 2 more years.
When do you expect Shoppach to break into the big leagues? When he's 28 or 29?
That's because the Yankees' system is bottom heavy and thin at the top.
Nothing to say
Right, and you have to discount for that, because those high-ceiling players are further away and, therefore, less likely to reach their potential.
That's why the rankings make sense to me.
The first time Varitek qualifed for the batting title, he was 27. Posada was 28.
If Shoppach is such a "phenominal" defender, shouldn't he be able to handle Wakefield? There's no way a guy who's going to be 25 in less than 2 months, who strikes out 4 times as much as he walks is a better prospect than Navarro. Navarro put up better numbers in AA at age 19 than Shoppach did at 23.
Varitek was the Red Sox starting catcher in 1998, when he was 26.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlbpa/players/5921/career
I said first full year. First year with 502 PA's.
Shoppach, to my knowledge, has never spent a day on a major league roster. Posada was originally brought up to the Yankees for a look in 1995, when he was 23. At 23, Shoppach had still never played at AAA.
Shoppach was voted Best Defensive Catcher in the International League by opposing coaches last year.
Luckily you have him for 4(!) more years.
To get back on topic, to say that Shoppach in his age 23 season was a better prospect than Navarro at his age 19 season really needs to evaluate how he views prospects.
And he sucked the year before that, and he sucked the year after that. One-year wonder.
Which goes back to Tristan's point that if he was such a good defensive catcher, he should be at least able to handle a knuckleball thereby negating the need to extend Mirabelli.
The guy will be 25. There is no development time needed because as BH said, he's "major league" ready
And he isn't going to do a thing in Dodger Stadium.
He sucked the year before that?! Navarro? Are you sure? Or are we talking about Shoppach?
I'm sorry? Do you consider a .238/.326/.360 line in A-Ball good?
So what does your crystal ball say about Shoppach? Any batting titles in the horizon? OPS+ of 150?
Except that Mirabelli put up a 1.015 OPS vs. LHP last season, while it's not clear that Shoppach can hit in the major leagues.
It's not Shoppach's defense that's holding him back. That was my only point there.
I agree, and have said in this thread, that if the Red Sox believed Shoppach was going to be a good starting catcher in the major leagues anytime soon, they wouldn't have signed BOTH Varitek and Mirabelli to the deals they did.
He surrendered.
Nothing to say
Well the Red Sox homer over here tends to disagree with you because, you know, if you put on them red socks, you turn into an uber prospect.
I'm hardly a homer. I just feel that Shoppach IS better. Navarro had one good year. Shoppach had one bad year. Come on.
Obviously the Yankees saw something from an 18 year old catcher playing in low A to actually promote him to high A the next year.
And you fail to mention his GCL line too. I'm not saying Dioner Navarro is a great prospect. But to say that Shoppach, despite being 4 years older is a better prospect than Navarro when Shoppach can't even put the fricking bat on the ball is terribly misguided.
A few points. Remember, I'm a Red Sox fan
You're overrating the Red Sox farm system and underrating the Yankees. The Red Sox farm system is SLIGHTY better than the Yankees, but that's not saying much.
Kelly Shoppach is trade bait after his year at Pawtucket in 2004. He doesn't have the bat speed to make it and that's the reason he's swimming with the fishes.
I think Navarro is overhyped too, but the fact is he's 5 years younger and after watching Shoppach I would take Navarro over him. For whatever reason, Navarro didn't come into camp in good shape last year and it cost him. HE has much more upside than Shoppach though.
Shoppach improved every month, however. He finished the year with a .267/.375/.600 month with a 0.50 BB/K. It is conceivable he could play first base once Millar is gone.
Watch out for Jesus Garcia, though.
Check out his numbers in the Dominican this winter. I wouldn't be surprised if Shoppach has already hired a moving company.
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