ut oh. Lawsuits beginning? [Canseco Book - mod]

[PippyPinstripes]

I just read on Rome that Palmiero has been meeting with lawyers concerning a libel suit againt Canseco.

Also mentioned was a possible pay-per-view event with Canseco taking a lie detector test live.

No links yet, sorry...

[MisterNovember]

Also mentioned was a possible pay-per-view event with Canseco taking a lie detector test live.

I'll take Shameless Acts of Self Promotion for $1000, Alex!

Good grief, someone needs to put Jose out of my misery.

[Rich]

My guess is that this is PR spin, and that neither Palmeiro nor any other signficant player will ever file a lawsuit. The standard for a public figure to claim libel is actual malice (i.e., knowledge of falsity on behalf of the defendant, or a reckless disregard for the truth). That is very hard to establish.

Also, players would be subject to too much scrutiny of their personal lives in the pre-trial discovery process.

[StaceyRosie]

Also mentioned was a possible pay-per-view event with Canseco taking a lie detector test live.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

[Buzah!]

I just read on Rome that Palmiero has been meeting with lawyers concerning a libel suit againt Canseco.

Also mentioned was a possible pay-per-view event with Canseco taking a lie detector test live.

No links yet, sorry...

Let's see what happens when Palmeiro sues. He'll get killed in discovery.

[PippyPinstripes]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

You heard it. Apparently he was on a talk show this morning and it was brought up and he said it was being arranged. This much is true because they played the clip on Rome.

Could he BE more sleazy?

(BTW- Is it against CS to call Canseco sleazy? I mean, isn't it pretty much empirical at this point??)

[gamesix1977]

You heard it. Apparently he was on a talk show this morning and it was brought up and he said it was being arranged. This much is true because they played the clip on Rome.

Could he BE more sleazy?

(BTW- Is it against CS to call Canseco sleazy? I mean, isn't it pretty much empirical at this point??)

I think this was on Good Morning America today.

[S2]

Also mentioned was a possible pay-per-view event with Canseco taking a lie detector test live.

Wouldn't it be great if he failed the lie detector test? Man, he'd look like a loser.

[Snatch Catch]

Wouldn't it be great if he failed the lie detector test? Man, he'd look like a loser.

It would be awful, IMHO, actually.

All that would do would basically absolve these guys, of doing what they've done, in much of the public eye.

[ieddyi]

Jose, why mess around, start growing that Ron Jeremy mustache now to prepare for your ultimate job destination- porn star=


It's gotta happen

How about a love tryst between him and Tonya Harding on pay per view

Brilliant

[mr. baskums]

I heard this as well in the Bob Edwards show on XM 175.

[S2]

It would be awful, IMHO, actually.

All that would do would basically absolve these guys, of doing what they've done, in much of the public eye.

If Canseco loses creditibility, the better off the game is, IMO. He'd be seen as a punk trying to make a buck off innocent players.

That is, if they are innocent.

[NYYBombshell]

Also mentioned was a possible pay-per-view event with Canseco taking a lie detector test live.

What a tool.

[ClayParker]

I've heard that polygraph tests are a sham anyhow. It's unfortunate that people still give credence to their results.

[JDPNYY]

This all could have been avoided if just one team had given him another chance.

[Snatch Catch]

If Canseco loses creditibility, the better off the game is, IMO. He'd be seen as a punk trying to make a buck off innocent players.

That is, if they are innocent.

There is absolutely no way on Gods green earth that a guy like Mark McGwire is innocent. No way.

And he gets seen as the sympathetic figure in this mess if the lie detector is failed.

I don't care if his accuser DOES where blue contacts...(picture my buddy got of Jose out in Vegas, or wherever the RMA's take place, a couple of months ago...)

[S2]

There is absolutely no way on Gods green earth that a guy like Mark McGwire is innocent. No way.

And he gets seen as the sympathetic figure in this mess if the lie detector is failed.

I don't care if his accuser DOES where blue contacts...(picture my buddy got of Jose out in Vegas, or whereever the RMA's take place, a couple of months ago...)

But it is unfair for a guy who has money troubles to be "writing" a book about players he says are on steroids, with the only proof being that he played with them. I'm sorry, but I'd rather not have every player in the bigs suspected of steroid use because a guy like Canseco needs money.

If they are guilty, then someone besides Jose must have proof. But if they are innocent and being dragged through the mud, that can and will ruin someone's chance to make a living for themselves and their family.

[Buzah!]

But it is unfair for a guy who has money troubles to be "writing" a book about players he says are on steroids, with the only proof being that he played with them. I'm sorry, but I'd rather not have every player in the bigs suspected of steroid use because a guy like Canseco needs money.

If they are guilty, then someone besides Jose must have proof. But if they are innocent and being dragged through the mud, that can and will ruin someone's chance to make a living for themselves and their family.

It shouldn't have taken a guy needing money, the cheating has been apparent since the mid-80's to anyone with a lick of information about performance enhancers.

[Snatch Catch]

But it is unfair for a guy who has money troubles to be "writing" a book about players he says are on steroids, with the only proof being that he played with them. I'm sorry, but I'd rather not have every player in the bigs suspected of steroid use because a guy like Canseco needs money.

If they are guilty, then someone besides Jose must have proof. But if they are innocent and being dragged through the mud, that can and will ruin someone's chance to make a living for themselves and their family.

Three quick, one word answer questions...

Gun to your head:

1)Yes or No: Do you believe that McGwire took illeagal steroids during his career?

[S2]

Three quick, one word answer questions...

Gun to your head:

1)Yes or No: Do you believe that McGwire took illeagal steroids during his career?

Yes I do.

[Snatch Catch]

Yes I do.

2) Do you think that he should be held accountable for this form of cheating?


Anyways, I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. I don't want to make it seem like I'm treating you like a child, because while the method I'm using to get my point across here would be fine in verbal interaction, it comes off as condescending in writing.

Canseco may need money. He may be in dire straits. I don't care.

In my mind, Mark McGwire cheated. I felt he was using even BEFORE the Canseco book, and it is one of the biggest loads of BULLSH!T that he has gotten off scott free and become America's Sweetheart. It doesn't matter to me why Canseco is saying what he's saying, it just matters that the truth is starting to materialize. I don't believe for one moment that there are only a handful of players that are doing it. I believe the majority of players are doing something, and it sucks.

Saying that Canseco needs to be discredited because of his reasons for doing what he did is analogous to saying that the FBI shouldn't use mob turncoats as witnesses because they are only giving up their story due to being in personal danger (knew they were going to be whacked, cut out of profits, FBI had blackmailed them).

[Saxmania]

I've heard that polygraph tests are a sham anyhow. It's unfortunate that people still give credence to their results.

Yup. If you have a pretty good idea what you're going to be asked (and Canseco clearly does), then there's no reason you can't throw it off, or so I'm told. Then again, I question whether Canseco has the requisite willpower.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[newfie]

My guess is that this is PR spin, and that neither Palmeiro nor any other signficant player will ever file a lawsuit. The standard for a public figure to claim libel is actual malice (i.e., knowledge of falsity on behalf of the defendant, or a reckless disregard for the truth). That is very hard to establish.

Also, players would be subject to too much scrutiny of their personal lives in the pre-trial discovery process.

I agree with almost everything you said. However, if Canseco claims he personally injected Palmiero with steroids, or otherwise saw him using steroids, and that is not, in fact, the case, the actual malice standard is satisfied. It may not be satisfied in a case against the publisher, but Palmiero has no problem (theoretically) in a suit against Canseco. The problem is how to prove it. I agree the players will not want to go through discovery.

[Jen19]

If some of these accused players really are innocent, then they should sue. It is horrible that someone like Jose can just make stuff up, ruin someone's reputation, and make money.
On the other hand, I do believe the stuff about McGwire. It'll come out eventually.

[Snatch Catch]

If some of these accused players really are innocent, then they should sue. It is horrible that someone like Jose can just make stuff up, ruin someone's reputation, and make money.
On the other hand, I do believe the stuff about McGwire. It'll come out eventually.

What makes you not believe him? Because he's a "bad person"?

Thats like not believing Jeffery Dahmer when he tells you what human flesh tastes like, just because he's a serial killer.

This is his thing. This is what he knows.

[S2]

2) Do you think that he should be held accountable for this form of cheating?


Anyways, I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. I don't want to make it seem like I'm treating you like a child, because while the method I'm using to get my point across here would be fine in verbal interaction, it comes off as condescending in writing.

Canseco may need money. He may be in dire straits. I don't care.

In my mind, Mark McGwire cheated. I felt he was using even BEFORE the Canseco book, and it is one of the biggest loads of BULLSH!T that he has gotten off scott free and become America's Sweetheart. It doesn't matter to me why Canseco is saying what he's saying, it just matters that the truth is starting to materialize. I don't believe for one moment that there are only a handful of players that are doing it. I believe the majority of players are doing something, and it sucks.

Saying that Canseco needs to be discredited because of his reasons for doing what he did is analogous to saying that the FBI shouldn't use mob turncoats as witnesses because they are only giving up their story because they were in personal danger (knew they were going to be whacked, cut out of profits, FBI had blackmailed them).

I do see where you are going, and I obviously believe some players are using steroids, and more are using whatever else they feel will help them. But, just because McGwire is guilty doesn't mean everyone else is automatically guilty, too.

Hey, let the truth be told. If a player is dirty, shame on them. But if one innocent player gets thrown into this mix because it gives Jose more sales on his book, then there is something wrong with this whole thing. There has to be a more civil way to find the cheaters. Canseco was once quoted as saying 80% of MLB players were on steroids, yet he only names a handful. There are two reasons, IMO, for this: a) those named will help sell his book and the others who are guilty are not everyday players who needed to get to the next level and never amounted to much of a player or b) he's full of it.

I'd agree on your last statement only to a point. Canseco wasn't in danger of losing his life over this. He was in danger of losing his money (see: World Series ring on e-bay). Also, if the informant is lying, he goes to jail (assuming he is doing it in exchange for a lesser sentence). However, the worst that will happen to Canseco is that people will think less of him than they already did (if that's possible).

[Snatch Catch]

Hey, let the truth be told. If a player is dirty, shame on them. But if one innocent player gets thrown into this mix because it gives Jose more sales on his book, then there is something wrong with this whole thing.

Interesting.

My POV is this:

These players do not deserve the benefit of ANY doubt. They have been living under the MLBPA's Teflon Umbrella, yucking it up for the past 2 decades. Its a joke. Why all the concern now? Why all the concern over Canseco's book? Where was the concern years ago when whispers were rampant discussing suspected steroid use?

The answer is the players thought they had it made. McGwire could have REALLY pushed to get a steroid testing policy put in place. He was the central figure, he was the one who everyone looked to after the whole Andro mess. And he, just like every other player out there gave us the same effort in looking to really do something about it that you and I give an annoying co-worker we see running towards the elevator that we occupy. First you pretend you don't see them, then as the doors start to close you pretend to frantically hammer on the "OPEN" button with a look of determination on your face. When the doors finally close, you let out an audible "DAMN!" or "SORRY!"...and then smile all the way up to your floor.

These guys were grinning from ear to ear in their goddamn elevator, year after year, while we rushed towards the closing doors day after day.

Believing every single time that they were really trying to hold the doors for us.

They deserve no pity, and certainly no protection.

[NYYBombshell]

Interesting.

My POV is this:

These players do not deserve the benefit of ANY doubt. They have been living under the MLBPA's Teflon Umbrella, yucking it up for the past 2 decades. Its a joke. Why all the concern now? Why all the concern over Canseco's book? Where was the concern years ago when whispers were rampant discussing suspected steroid use?

The answer is the players thought they had it made. McGwire could have REALLY pushed to get a steroid testing policy put in place. He was the central figure, he was the one who everyone looked to after the whole Andro mess. And he, just like every other player out there gave us the same effort in looking to really do something about it that you and I give an annoying co-worker we see running towards the elevator that we occupy. First you pretend you don't see them, then as the doors start to close you pretend to frantically hammer on the "OPEN" button with a look of determination on your face. When the doors finally close, you let out an audible "DAMN!" or "SORRY!"...and then smile all the way up to your floor.

These guys were grinning from ear to ear in their goddamn elevator, year after year, while we rushed towards the closing doors day after day.

Believing every single time that they were really trying to hold the doors for us.

They deserve no pity, and certainly no protection.

Great use of analogy. However, wasn't Andro legal when McGwire was using it? I see no sense in going through some "ex post facto" back entrance and then saying that because it's illegal now, it was illegal then. I do believe he took Andro, but I don't believe he took anything that was illegal at the time.

[S2]

Interesting.

My POV is this:

These players do not deserve the benefit of ANY doubt. They have been living under the MLBPA's Teflon Umbrella, yucking it up for the past 2 decades. Its a joke. Why all the concern now? Why all the concern over Canseco's book? Where was the concern years ago when whispers were rampant discussing suspected steroid use?

I definately see your side of this. But still, not every single player is juicing, but it seems like whenever a homerun goes over 450+ feet, fingers are pointed. It's evolution. Athletes are faster, stronger and just all-around better than those from 30 or 40 years ago. I'd love to see the game completely cleaned out, but I also believe in "innocent until proven guilty". Does that mean I don't care that players are cheating? Absolutley not. I hate when some in the media claim the fans don't care because they are packing the stadiums (in some parks anyway). I want more proof than "Jose says so". There is more proof out there, and hopefully, it comes out and the innocent are seperated from the guilty.

Barry Bonds (or any other suspected juicer) should do the whole baseball world a favor and retire before breaking Hammering Hank's record. That one would be tough to explain to the grandkids.

[Snatch Catch]

Great use of analogy. However, wasn't Andro legal when McGwire was using it? I see no sense in going through some "ex post facto" back entrance and then saying that because it's illegal now, it was illegal then.

I'm (as is S2, I think) speaking about the illegal anabolic steroids out there: D-Bol, Deca, anadrol, winstrol, etc.

The andro portion of it is inconsequential in my mind. It is very, VERY clear to me, as someone who has friends that have done the stuff and others who have researched them in labs, that McGwire was using illegal anabolic steroids.

I do believe he took Andro, but I don't believe he took anything that was illegal at the time.

Play along with me a little if you will...

Why do you believe this?

[NYYBombshell]

I'm (as is S2, I think) speaking about the illegal anabolic steroids out there: D-Bol, Deca, anadrol, winstrol, etc.

The andro portion of it is inconsequential in my mind. It is very, VERY clear to me, as someone who has friends that have done the stuff and others who have researched them in labs, that McGwire was using illegal anabolic steroids.



Play along with me a little if you will...

Why do you believe this?

I believe it because I haven't heard/read anything stating that he took anything else. All I know him to have taken was Andro. Is that ignorant of me? Quite possibly. I don't claim to know everything.

[PettittesPrincess]

Suing him for what? Confirming what has been suspected for years? McGwire should be held accountable with the rest of them, who knows what all he was taking.

[NYYBombshell]

On PTI, Kornheiser was talking about how he watched Canseco on the Today show this morning and about how Canseco said his book was the greatest thing written since the New Testament.

Gettin' a little full of yourself, eh Jose?

[Snatch Catch]

I believe it because I haven't heard/read anything stating that he took anything else. All I know him to have taken was Andro. Is that ignorant of me? Quite possibly. I don't claim to know everything.

I'm not saying at all that you're ignorant, not in the least bit.

Before Canseco came out and admitted to steroid use, did you suspect that he used steroids?

How about Bonds before the sealed testimony was leaked?

How about Giambi?

I'll tell you how I felt a year ago:

Canseco: Yes. Definitely.

Bonds: Yes, but giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Giambi: Iffy.

Why? Well Canseco was huge, and he was boisterous. He was a pompous, conceited pr*ck, and in my mind, subconciously, that made him someone who was capable of "bad" things.

Bonds was a "yes" for many similar reasons to Canseco. However, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because he was the best player in the game BEFORE he got bigger, and I also try to always force myself to give the "bad guy" the same consideration I give the good guy.

Giambi was iffy, because SURPRISE: He was a Yankee! I knew in my heart that there was just so much evidence against him and he was guilty, but when he would make statements like "I have a personal chef that I take on the road with me who prepares healthy meals. I work out all the time...blah, blah, blah." I wanted to believe him. He was a sympathetic figure, too: he was a soft spoken, apologetic white man who had never sought to create any controversy during his stay in NYC.

Bonds was the ornery "angry black man".

Canseco was the flamboyant, full of himself Latino.

These roles, as much as we don't want to admit it in the States, are a subconscious factor for EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US.

McGwire fell into the same catagory as Giambi: White, soft spoken, kind, gentle, wouldn't hurt a fly. He was a sympathetic figure; a hero that our children could look up to. A modern day Paul Bunyan- "let him hoist your kids in the air and swing them around as they laugh with glee! Look at how much respect he has for the Maris family, he loves the game! Look at how quietly and dignified he circles the bases, he's such a gentlemen..."

And because of this, people overlooked the overwhelming circumstantial evidence against him. He gained so much weight. He appeared not cut up, but bloated. He was always injuring his knees, and landing on the DL with a myriad of other injuries. He was an extremely shy and self conscious person. Oh yeah, and just to say it again: he gained a LOT of non-lean muscle mass. Too much.

What this Canseco book should do for everyone is take the rose colored glasses off that we all would wear with these guys. it should remove the filter we have in our mind that says "Player X couldn't do it, but Player Y is defintiely roiding" even though they both show similar physical attributes.

I hope every last one of them goes down. I fully understand why they did what they did, and I don't fault them for it, actually. I had a long post about this in the Giambi admits steroids thread, actually.

However, the lying to our faces in unapologetic ways, the hiding behind the union figureheads, the breaking of records and rewriting history that these guys have done, all the while pretending that they were doing no wrong is despicable. It makes me want to confront each and every one of them and just yell for hours on end.