Auction League Questions

[rodg12]

Can we add and drop minor leaguers throughout the season?

[Big_E]

Can we add and drop minor leaguers throughout the season?

yes, as long as they have rookie eligibility (50 IP, 130 AB).

also...kids who get taken in the 2008 June Entry Draft cannot be taken until the 2009 season, unless they are promoted to the majors this year.

[Snatch Catch]

yes, as long as they have rookie eligibility (50 IP, 130 AB).

also...kids who get taken in the 2008 June Entry Draft cannot be taken until the 2009 season, unless they are promoted to the majors this year.

Weren't we at least looking in to changing this?

Also, can I drop a mL guy and have another slot in the draft?

[yanksphan]

Speaking of minor leaguers....it appears Colby Rasmus will be starting the season in the minor leagues - but I drafted him as a major leaguer.

If he does indeed start the season in the minors - can I just bump him down there on FFA day and pick up a ML FA?

I would have to forego my 1st round mL Draft pick to keep a spot open.

[Big_E]

Weren't we at least looking in to changing this?

Also, can I drop a mL guy and have another slot in the draft?

I don't think the discussion went anywhere into changing it...

Yes, you can drop someone on Free For All day...when the official thread for the mL draft is opened, let me know you have an extra slot.

[Big_E]

Speaking of minor leaguers....it appears Colby Rasmus will be starting the season in the minor leagues - but I drafted him as a major leaguer.

If he does indeed start the season in the minors - can I just bump him down there on FFA day and pick up a ML FA?

I would have to forego my 1st round mL Draft pick to keep a spot open.

Yes, you can demote him as long as he still has the aforementioned rookie eligibility. You would then have 4 mL players, and get no spots in the mL draft.

[Snatch Catch]

Yes, you can demote him as long as he still has the aforementioned rookie eligibility. You would then have 4 mL players, and get no spots in the mL draft.

What is the BJ Upton / Edwin Jackson rule then?

[Big_E]

What is the BJ Upton / Edwin Jackson rule then?

From a time with a different commissioner?

We started this league in 2005.

By 2005, BJ Upton had 159 career AB and rightfully so should have been denied being demoted to the minors.

As far as Edwin Jackson, it was the ruling that anyone taken in the Auction could not be demoted to the minors. I have softened that to as long as the person has rookie eligibility, he can be demoted. However, if he is kept, it's a ML keeper at the ML rules, since he was taken in the Auction.

There have been lots of other changes since then (though the No Bench Rule has always been a constant) including adding waivers, allowing teams to sign FA mL players, etc...

[Snatch Catch]

Oh wow. I wish I had been aware of that change. That's a huge loophole that I'll hopefully remember to exploit next year.

[yanksphan]

Thanks E.

It's the least you could do after I got Mota'd......again.

[Big_E]

Oh wow. I wish I had been aware of that change. That's a huge loophole that I'll hopefully remember to exploit next year.

Yeah, you could try to sign 4 mL players in the auction at $1 a piece. Then demote them...but to keep them the next year, you either renew them again at $1 a piece or sign them to a $9, $13 or $17 contract.

Is a rookie player worth that?

Take Evan Longoria, the #3 pick in the 2006 June draft. Maybe you get him for $1 in 2007. He spent the whole year in the minors. (Waste of $1). Do you renew him for 2008, for the $1 and lose him in 2009?

Or do you think he's worth $9 this year to keep him in 2009?

The #2 pick that year, Gregory Reynolds is nowhere near ML ready. The #4 pick that year, Brad Lincoln, had surgery and missed all of 2007.

So it could be a loophole, or just bad/risky strategy.

[yanksphan]

I'll keep an eye on his status, but if Colby gets sent down, I'll skip my mL pick.

[Snatch Catch]

Yeah, you could try to sign 4 mL players in the auction at $1 a piece. Then demote them...but to keep them the next year, you either renew them again at $1 a piece or sign them to a $9, $13 or $17 contract.

Is a rookie player worth that?

Take Evan Longoria, the #3 pick in the 2006 June draft. Maybe you get him for $1 in 2007. He spent the whole year in the minors. (Waste of $1). Do you renew him for 2008, for the $1 and lose him in 2009?

Or do you think he's worth $9 this year to keep him in 2009?

The #2 pick that year, Gregory Reynolds is nowhere near ML ready. The #4 pick that year, Brad Lincoln, had surgery and missed all of 2007.

So it could be a loophole, or just bad/risky strategy.

It's absolutely worth it on the high-end guys that are close to the majors. Guys like Wade Davis, Rasmus, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Votto, Maybin, Longoria, etc. They're all close to the Majors, and will most likely be up this year. If it doesn't work out, it only costs you a buck, and for that dollar you get first crack at a stud minor leaguer at a lesser rate than even the minor league draft.

[Big_E]

It's absolutely worth it on the high-end guys that are close to the majors. Guys like Wade Davis, Rasmus, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Votto, Maybin, Longoria, etc. They're all close to the Majors, and will most likely be up this year. If it doesn't work out, it only costs you a buck, and for that dollar you get first crack at a stud minor leaguer at a lesser rate than even the minor league draft.

But how do you know who is close to the majors 9 months after the June draft?

Prince Fielder was taken in the #7 in the 2002 draft. Was he close to being majors ready?

If you snagged him for $1 in the 2003 auction, you could have had him for all of 2003 for $1. Then what?

If you signed him to a 3-year $13 contract, you would have lost $13 in 2004 when he spent the whole year in the minors, had him for only September of 2005 (basically losing the $13 again) and all of 2006.

So you would have had him for 1 year (plus one month) in the majors, but would have lost $13 in 2004 and $13 in 2005.

Worth it? Doubtful. You could have just as easily taken him for $5 in the 2003 mL draft; kept him for $5 in 2004; $5 in 2006; and signed him long-term to a 4-year $21/year contract following the 2006 season.

And the $5 mL deals would not count against your $260 auction limit, unlike a ML keeper pick.

High risk.

Look at Ellsbury, since you mentioned him. He was taken in the 2005 draft.

You could have taken him, say, for $1 in the 2006 auction and then faced a decision...keep him for $1 in 2007? or go $9 for 2007 and 2008? Doubtful you would have signed him longer than that given no power/good speed in the minors.

He wasn't worth $9 in 2007 as a late-season callup. So you'd have him for 2008 at $9...but I got him for $7 this year, so if he was worth $9, he'd have gone for at least that this year.

[Snatch Catch]

But how do you know who is close to the majors 9 months after the June draft?

Prince Fielder was taken in the #7 in the 2002 draft. Was he close to being majors ready?

If you snagged him for $1 in the 2003 auction, you could have had him for all of 2003 for $1. Then what?

If you signed him to a 3-year $13 contract, you would have lost $13 in 2004 when he spent the whole year in the minors, had him for only September of 2005 (basically losing the $13 again) and all of 2006.

So you would have had him for 1 year (plus one month) in the majors, but would have lost $13 in 2004 and $13 in 2005.

Worth it? Doubtful. You could have just as easily taken him for $5 in the 2003 mL draft; kept him for $5 in 2004; $5 in 2006; and signed him long-term to a 4-year $21/year contract following the 2006 season.

And the $5 mL deals would not count against your $260 auction limit, unlike a ML keeper pick.

High risk.

Look at Ellsbury, since you mentioned him. He was taken in the 2005 draft.

You could have taken him, say, for $1 in the 2006 auction and then faced a decision...keep him for $1 in 2007? or go $9 for 2007 and 2008? Doubtful you would have signed him longer than that given no power/good speed in the minors.

He wasn't worth $9 in 2007 as a late-season callup. So you'd have him for 2008 at $9...but I got him for $7 this year, so if he was worth $9, he'd have gone for at least that this year.

I'm not talking about the draft. I'm talking about a Rasmus situation. Two seperate issues.

[Big_E]

I'm not talking about the draft. I'm talking about a Rasmus situation. Two seperate issues.

But most of the top-level mL guys are on rosters already as mL keepers. It's only if a team disbands (like one did this year) that they become available.

Not sure if Rasmus was on a roster last year.

[Snatch Catch]

But most of the top-level mL guys are on rosters already as mL keepers. It's only if a team disbands (like one did this year) that they become available.

Not sure if Rasmus was on a roster last year.

Nah, that's simply not true.

There are plenty of elite talent guys close to the majors available for a buck.

It's the reason we put that rule into place to begin with.

[Big_E]

Nah, that's simply not true.

There are plenty of elite talent guys close to the majors available for a buck.

It's the reason we put that rule into place to begin with.

Well...we'll see, I guess.

Like I said, let's say you could have gotten Ellsbury for $1 last year, if you thought he was close to majors ready (which he was, as a late-season callup). But then either renewing him for $1 and losing him after 2008, or signing him to a 2-year $9, 3-year $13 or 4-year $17 extention.

But since I got him for $7 this year, and could renew him for $7 next year, a two-year $18 (total) extention for 2008/09 is more than one year at $7 and a renew at $7, for two-years $14 for 2008/09

Like I said, it's a risk, for teams that want to take a risk.

[Snatch Catch]

Well...we'll see, I guess.

Like I said, let's say you could have gotten Ellsbury for $1 last year, if you thought he was close to majors ready (which he was, as a late-season callup). But then either renewing him for $1 and losing him after 2008, or signing him to a 2-year $9, 3-year $13 or 4-year $17 extention.

But since I got him for $7 this year, and could renew him for $7 next year, a two-year $18 (total) extention for 2008/09 is more than one year at $7 and a renew at $7, for two-years $14 for 2008/09

Like I said, it's a risk, for teams that want to take a risk.

Eric, it's no risk at all. None.

Jake McGee
Wade Davis
Travis Snider
Cameron Maybin
Colby Rasmus
Carlos Gonzalez
Chris Marrero
Adam Miller
Reid Brignac
Ian Stewart
Johnny Cueto
Jeff Clement
Matt Antonelli
Carlos Gomez

The majority of these guys weren't protected this year. If you buy them for a dollar at the auction, but they don't make the majors, you use a minor league spot for them (Awesome! They're a top minor league pick, yet you have them for $1!)

If they make the majors, you have their talent playing for you.

If they fail, you're only out a dollar.

If they succeed, you've got a star at a bargain.

If they spend the whole year in the minors, you assess what their '09 prognosis looks like. Worse comes to worse, you re-up him for a buck, and he underperforms in '09. You're out a dollar.

Maybe you pick up his option and he becomes a star. You still got that production for a year, for a buck.

There's no downside here. It's a loophole, and that's why we closed it up initially. It's why I pushed for the idea that anyone taken in the ML auction had to remain on your mL roster. It's entirely too easy to populate your mL roster with top mL talent in the auction.

[gdn]

Eric, it's no risk at all. None.

Jake McGee
Wade Davis
Travis Snider
Cameron Maybin
Colby Rasmus
Carlos Gonzalez
Chris Marrero
Adam Miller
Reid Brignac
Ian Stewart
Johnny Cueto
Jeff Clement
Matt Antonelli
Carlos Gomez

The majority of these guys weren't protected this year. If you buy them for a dollar at the auction, but they don't make the majors, you use a minor league spot for them (Awesome! They're a top minor league pick, yet you have them for $1!)

If they make the majors, you have their talent playing for you.

If they fail, you're only out a dollar.

If they succeed, you've got a star at a bargain.

If they spend the whole year in the minors, you assess what their '09 prognosis looks like. Worse comes to worse, you re-up him for a buck, and he underperforms in '09. You're out a dollar.

Maybe you pick up his option and he becomes a star. You still got that production for a year, for a buck.

There's no downside here. It's a loophole, and that's why we closed it up initially. It's why I pushed for the idea that anyone taken in the ML auction had to remain on your mL roster. It's entirely too easy to populate your mL roster with top mL talent in the auction.

I think Brignac is on my team...and Maybin? Why does it all sound so damn familiar? Am I thinking of another league?

Yes I realize you said "majority". This is a stream of consciousness post.

[Snatch Catch]

I think Brignac is on my team...and Maybin? Why does it all sound so damn familiar? Am I thinking of another league?

He may be. I was just saying there's high-end mL talent out there to be had for a buck at the auction if you know your stuff. Even if it's one guy, it's still a huge loophole to acquire the player at a highly discounted rate with no real downside.

[Big_E]

Jake McGee
Wade Davis
Travis Snider - hasn't played above A ball.
Cameron Maybin - on a Roster
Colby Rasmus - on a Roster
Carlos Gonzalez - on a Roster
Chris Marrero - 19 years old, hasn't played above A ball.
Adam Miller - on a Roster
Reid Brignac - on a Roster
Ian Stewart - on a Roster
Johnny Cueto
Jeff Clement - on a Roster
Matt Antonelli - played part of season at AA last year
Carlos Gomez - finished the season in the majors last year. Had 125 AB.

So maybe 4 guys are majors ready and not already on a roster. I couldn't see taking a guy like Snider or Marrero in the Auction, if they are 2 years away.

Like I said, if you want to take guys like them in the Auction go ahead. It also means you would need to pick up 4 guys who were not taken in the auction to fill out your ML roster.

[Snatch Catch]

Ok. If I'm in the league next year, I'll be driving a truck through this ridiculous loophole.

[Big_E]

Ok. If I'm in the league next year, I'll be driving a truck through this ridiculous loophole.

Ok.

[yanksphan]

Snatch - you realize you might be doing the exact same thing with Jay Bruce?

[Snatch Catch]

Snatch - you realize you might be doing the exact same thing with Jay Bruce?

Of course. I'm not arguing this for any other reason than it's a logical flaw. I'm not worried about if it affects me or not.

[rodg12]

I don't see a huge loophole here. Why waste the dollar at the auction? Could cost you the next year. So, maybe you get first crack at the player. So what, the majority of these guys don't meet the hype anyway. It's still better strategy to get a guy in the minor draft, have him keep his mL eligibility, keep him for nothing the next year, use his production that year, then extend him. You get an extra year to decide to extend him. Huge advantage.

[Snatch Catch]

I don't see a huge loophole here. Why waste the dollar at the auction? Could cost you the next year. So, maybe you get first crack at the player. So what, the majority of these guys don't meet the hype anyway. It's still better strategy to get a guy in the minor draft, have him keep his mL eligibility, keep him for nothing the next year, use his production that year, then extend him. You get an extra year to decide to extend him. Huge advantage.

So the fact that I'm picking almost last in the minor league draft, yet I have the option to take the best minor league talent available (and potentially at a salary lower than a minor leaguer's) doesn't bother you?

Ok. Like I said, if everyone agrees that I'm wrong, I'll just play it out next season.

[gdn]

How do I add someone to the reserve list? Montero (C - Ari) is going to start the season on the DL and I'd like to DL him.

[Big_E]

How do I add someone to the reserve list? Montero (C - Ari) is going to start the season on the DL and I'd like to DL him.

He can just be put on the DL...no need to reserve him.

[ChrisRo]

Headley has just been sent to AAA and I wanted to make sure I got everything straight before doing anything with him.
So, I can either drop him, or place him on the Reserve list. If I Reserve him, I have 2 options:
- add 5$ to his 2$ base salary, so I'll have him for 1 Year @ 7$
- sign him to a 2 year extension. I'm not sure how this part works. Sign him for 2009 and 2010 @ 10$, and his 2008 salary stays at 2$?
If I reserve him, and he gets back in the MLB squad, I have 7 days to activate him again.
Correct?

[Big_E]

Headley has just been sent to AAA and I wanted to make sure I got everything straight before doing anything with him.
So, I can either drop him, or place him on the Reserve list. If I Reserve him, I have 2 options:
- add 5$ to his 2$ base salary, so I'll have him for 1 Year @ 7$
- sign him to a 2 year extension. I'm not sure how this part works. Sign him for 2009 and 2010 @ 10$, and his 2008 salary stays at 2$?
If I reserve him, and he gets back in the MLB squad, I have 7 days to activate him again.
Correct?

Correct on all counts!

[ChrisRo]

What happens if i sign him for a 2 year extension, and later this season when he's called back up, I don't reactivate him? I simply lose him, or do i also get penalized for not keeping him?

[Big_E]

What happens if i sign him for a 2 year extension, and later this season when he's called back up, I don't reactivate him? I simply lose him, or do i also get penalized for not keeping him?

Both; you lose him and incur the $1 penalty for not keeping him.

Increasing his base by $5 obviously gives you more options.

[ChrisRo]

Increasing his base by $5 obviously gives you more options.

Hmmm...
- if he turns out to be a bust, and has a lousy year, I lose only 2$ (his 2008 salary) + 1$ penalty, if I sign him to an extension; I lose 7$ if I increase his base.
- if I'm sure he's gonna be a star player, I pay only 22$ for the next 3 years (2 for 2008, 10 for 2009 and 2010) - if I sign him to an extension; I pay 37$ (7 for 2008, 15 for 2009 and 2010) - if I increase his base.

In both cases, it looks like signing him to an extension is the best way to go. Am I missing something here?

[Big_E]

Hmmm...
- if he turns out to be a bust, and has a lousy year, I lose only 2$ (his 2008 salary) + 1$ penalty, if I sign him to an extension; I lose 7$ if I increase his base.
- if I'm sure he's gonna be a star player, I pay only 22$ for the next 3 years (2 for 2008, 10 for 2009 and 2010) - if I sign him to an extension; I pay 37$ (7 for 2008, 15 for 2009 and 2010) - if I increase his base.

In both cases, it looks like signing him to an extension is the best way to go. Am I missing something here?

If you add $5 to his base, he becomes $7 for 2008. You can renew him for 2009 at the same $7 (and lose him to the 2010 auction). If he's a bust, it only cost you $7 for 2009.

If you sign him to a 2-year extention, he becomes $10 for 2009 and $10 for 2010. If he's a bust and you don't keep him in 2009, you lose $1 in the 2009 auction. If you keep him in 2009, and he's a bust, you spent $10 on a bust, and lose $1 in 2010 if you don't keep him.

[ChrisRo]

I still think a 2 year extension is the best way to go.

- if he sucks, I'd rather lose 3$ (2$ base + 1$ penalty) than 7$ base
- if he turns out to be great, I'd rather pay 22$ and have him for 3 years instead of paying 14$ for 2 years or 37$ for the same 3 years

The only negative thing out of it would be if I keep him for 2009 and he sucks. But I think 2008 should be enough to figure out if he's worth keeping or not.

[Big_E]

I still think a 2 year extension is the best way to go.

- if he sucks, I'd rather lose 3$ (2$ base + 1$ penalty) than 7$ base
- if he turns out to be great, I'd rather pay 22$ and have him for 3 years instead of paying 14$ for 2 years or 37$ for the same 3 years

The only negative thing out of it would be if I keep him for 2009 and he sucks. But I think 2008 should be enough to figure out if he's worth keeping or not.

But you can't count his $7 base this year...because we're not making you pay an extra $5. He cost you $2, and we make him $7. So if you increase his base and renew him next year, he cost you $9. $2 this year, $7 next.

[ChrisRo]

Oh. Right. My bad Still, the second part is correct, with him turning out great

So how can I extend him (or increase his base)? I changed his status to "Reserve" in my roster, but I don't see any other options.

[Big_E]

Oh. Right. My bad Still, the second part is correct, with him turning out great

So how can I extend him (or increase his base)? I changed his status to "Reserve" in my roster, but I don't see any other options.

So which one are you doing? Adding $5 to his base, or extending him 2 years?

[ChrisRo]

2 years.
2008 - 2$
2009 - 10$
2010 - 10$

[ChrisRo]

If Reserve players are actually Free Agents, how can we tell which ones are reserved and which ones aren't?

[Big_E]

If Reserve players are actually Free Agents, how can we tell which ones are reserved and which ones aren't?

I keep a list. It's referenced on the Sportsline page

[ChrisRo]

Sorry for all the questions, but here's another one.

How's the Total Score computed? I have 64,50 right now. Is there some sort of formula? Does it matter towards our weekly results?

Thanks

[rodg12]

Sorry for all the questions, but here's another one.

How's the Total Score computed? I have 64,50 right now. Is there some sort of formula? Does it matter towards our weekly results?

Thanks

Right now you 64.50 'pts'. This is a Rotisserie league, which means that you get x number of 'pts' for your standing in each of the ten categories (AVG, R, HR, RBI, SB, W, SV, ERA, WHIP, K) we use. For example, since there are 11 teams in our league, the person in first place on any given day in AVG gets 11 pts, the person in 2nd gets 10 pts, 3rd gets 9 pts and so on. You add up your pts for each category to come to a final total (that's where your 64.5 comes from). Each of these categories is a running total for the entire year. Does that answer your question?

[ChrisRo]

Completely. Thanks.

[rodg12]

Why couldn't ChrisRo move Headley to his Minor league squad instead of reserving him? If I understand things correctly, this could have been done which negates him having to bump his salary or sign him to an extension.

[Big_E]

Why couldn't ChrisRo move Headley to his Minor league squad instead of reserving him? If I understand things correctly, this could have been done which negates him having to bump his salary or sign him to an extension.

Sure, if he has rookie eligibility. I only answered the question he asked about reserving someone...I didn't research the player's eligibility -- that's up to the owner.

But yeah, if he didn't understand things after all the debate about who can or cannot be demoted, I'll let him demote him at the old salary.

[ChrisRo]

Damn. I kept reading about minor leaguers and not doing anything about them until the minor league draft, I didn't even consider this option. Sorry, my bad.

[Big_E]

Damn. I kept reading about minor leaguers and not doing anything about them until the minor league draft, I didn't even consider this option. Sorry, my bad.

So do you want to do that, versus reserving him?

It also means one less pick in the mL draft.