http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/s...C-DT9705204233
FORT MYERS, Fla. -- Mike Greenwell, 1988 American League MVP?
The former Boston Red Sox outfielder said Jose Canseco's admission that he took steroids raises questions about the legitimacy of the award that season.
Originally Posted by StaceyRosie
I read that this morning. It sounds like he's more ticked off that it affected his payday than the actual award.
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On one hand I think it's absurd to go back 17 years and rename an MVP. But on the other hand, if the player who won admitted to cheating during the season in which he won the award, that's not right.
If I thought they should give it to Greenwell (which I don't), I'd say "They take away medals in the olympics, why not in baseball?".
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I say we stomp him! Then we tattoo him! Then we hang him! And then we kill him!
I say we let him go.
Does Ken Caminiti lose (posthumously) his MVP too? How about Barry Bonds? If you take away Canseco's award and give it to the next runner up, how can you stop at just his award? I'm not defending them at all and I'm not saying that it should not be considered. There is more than one tainted award.
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Greenwell made an interesting point though. He was a good, not great, player. If he got to put "MVP" on his resume because of his best season, he then likely signs a contract that adds millions more to his retirement fund. Canseco's cheating cost him that.
It goes down the line...
...a borderline talent who uses steroids sticks to a major league roster for a few years, and at least makes $300k +/- per year for a while. By cheating, he takes away a job (and good money) away from the "AAAA"-type player who doesn't cheat and can't quite make the majors.
Ugly, ugly, ugly...
B/c the Olympics has a pretty rigorous testing policy, so it's believed few cheaters fall through the cracks. Baseball hasn't had that, so stripping awards would be almost arbitrary.
It's our game, the American game... and a blessing to us. --Walt Whitman
How about Giambi?
Just an observation, but the film clip (probably file and not necessarily from 1988) of Greenwell that accompanied this story on ESPN news was unreal. His arms were almost John McEnroe skinny. While he never juiced, he hadn't spent much time in the weight room either. Seriously, I can't think of any mlb players that look like that now.
I really do not know how mlb would go about righting all the wrongs from this era, and, if they could, it would do nothing to replace lost income for those who got screwed. I certainly see the point that Greenwell is making though. I just don't see a practical way to do anything about it.
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On a similar note, Giambi barely beat out Frank Thomas for the 2000 MVP. That would've made Thomas the eighth player in history to have a least three MVPs and almost guarantee him a spot in the HOF. The other players are Bonds, Mantle, Berra, DiMaggio, Foxx, Musial, Schmidt and Campanella. Pretty good company, huh?
There's still time for him to get his third.
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This is notion is based in a logically sound, theoretical approach...that has absolutely zero bearing in the real world.
Why hasn't Dick Allen surrendered his MVP award yet???
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I try not to listen to stuff like this - it clouds the game.
It shouldn't and won't be done. Theres too many other awards that should be investigate also. If they Start the roid testing now they'll reduce the chance that a winner is a user in the future.
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I can understand Greenwell's perspective, but the sad thing is, steroids were not banned in 1988. Yes, people can view players as they wish, but if you remove Canseco's MVP, then you must disavow any record broken by anyone found to have used steroids.
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hahha i remmeber him back in the day when i was allowed to stay up and watch the sox before bed
I believe they were, it's just that there was no testing or specified punishment policy. But they were banned and against ML rules.
It's our game, the American game... and a blessing to us. --Walt Whitman
And how are we to know the Big Hurt didn't/hasn't used roids as well? He's had a lot odd injuries throughout his career.On a similar note, Giambi barely beat out Frank Thomas for the 2000 MVP. That would've made Thomas the eighth player in history to have a least three MVPs and almost guarantee him a spot in the HOF. The other players are Bonds, Mantle, Berra, DiMaggio, Foxx, Musial, Schmidt and Campanella. Pretty good company, huh?
There's still time for him to get his third.
It's our game, the American game... and a blessing to us. --Walt Whitman
Thousands in every sport will have to give up their awards then
As an aside, everytime I hear Greenwell's name, I automatically think of Don Mattingly, who happens to be his first cousin.
No taking back of MVP awards or asterisks on records. Everyone from owners to players must pay some kind price for turning a blind eye to the steroids era of MLB. For some players losing out on the MVP is one of them. Greenwell should have spoken out back about steroid use back then. Too late now. There is no crying in baseball.
I am sure Mike knew about steroids in the league back then. If he wanted the MVP he should have spoke up about the steroid abuse.
Get 27!
Greenwell was 25 during the 1988 season, do you honestly think a 25 year old is going to blow the top off of the steroid scandal in baseball.
Unfortunately for guys like Greenwell, their careers were effected by a very ugly time in the game. At least he got to make a pretty nice career for himself. I can only imagine the guys who never made the Big Show, b/c they were beaten out by juicers......... Those guys are the real casualty of steroids
On a similar note, Giambi barely beat out Frank Thomas for the 2000 MVP. That would've made Thomas the eighth player in history to have a least three MVPs and almost guarantee him a spot in the HOF. The other players are Bonds, Mantle, Berra, DiMaggio, Foxx, Musial, Schmidt and Campanella. Pretty good company, huh?
There's still time for him to get his third.
Some people believe Thomas may be on the juice too, can you believe that
i gotta say that i feel bad for the guy and all the other clean players who have been hurt by players using steroids. i remember greenwell being one of the few red sox players i have ever liked(being mattingly's cousin probably helped him out a bit). however, what's done is done and there is no way he or anyone else should get awards now.
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i guess greenwell will have to get by with the 20 million he earned over his playing career.
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Greenwell is a joke. He was just on ESPNews whining about the MVP. He was a freaking Player Rep and didn't say squat. Now he is all, "in retrospective we should have done something about the steroid use." Ya think? Live with the result of your complicity, dude.
Something extreme has to be done or the threat of steroids won't end.
Make it a law that if detected using performance enhancing drugs your entire career cabinet is to be retroactively stripped. Every major award you've won, gone and off the books.
I wouldn't exactly call him a joke, but at first, I thought this whole thing was a joke. Apparently, he's dead serious. But really, can you blame him? He was beaten by an admitted cheater.
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It is what it is but it ain't what you think
I say we stomp him! Then we tattoo him! Then we hang him! And then we kill him!
I say we let him go.
Greenwell was on XM radio today with Dibble and Kennedy. I don't get the impression that he 'wants' the MVP, but he did make the point about how his salary was affected. He talked about how the year after he came in 2nd, Canseco got 1.2 milloin, and he got about 500K..and he had to walk out of camp to get that.
He also talked about how when he and Canseco were teammates on the Sox, He 'joked' all the time about Canseco's illegitimate MVP award...and on one occasion, when he marvelled at Canseco's hitting, in a conversation Canseco invited him to Miami for the offseason, claiming he could 'help him with the power part'.
He talked about how he actually DID consider taking steriods to get his numbers up, since it was obvious more than a few were doing it..but he decided against it.
Regarding his pipes as a player, did any of you see the picture that accompanied the original story in the Florida paper? Methinks he started juicing AFTER his career!
he was at spring training today
http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/NASApp/..._bos&fext=.jsp
Isn't this the essential argument against the use of steroids?
The cheaters have created a situation in which players who play the game clean are at a disadvantage.
It's almost to the point where you have to use it to have a fair shot.
That's the problem I have with steroids. I don't care what an athlete chooses to put in his own body, and I don't even really care about the records. I care that people who play the game cleanly are starting a step behind the steroid-users.
Athletes who play clean are already at a disadvantage, and they are being robbed of recognition, money, and in some cases a job at all by steroid users. Clean athletes are put in a situation where they almost have to turn to steroids just to keep up.
Defenders of steroids say that it's up to an athlete to decide what he puts in his own body. But is it really his own personal choice when his actions take jobs away from those who really deserve it, putting those players in a position where they are forced to take steroids just to get the shot that they really deserve?
To a certain extent, no one can tell you how to live your life. But when how you live your life forces others to make a harmful decision just so they can live their lives, then there's a problem.
Steroid users aren't just cheating themselves. They're cheating fans, they're cheating other players, and they're cheating baseball.
That's why, despite what tests could pick up what drugs and what the rules actually stated, anyone who used drugs to artificially enhance his performance is a cheater and a detriment to the game.
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I heard Greenwell on ESPN Radio today and one thing that I think that everyone is missing is that he doesn't really want the MVP award or the money (though he'd like it) but he wants to make the case that he has a right to it as a means to cleaning up baseball. He didn't entirely come out and say that but he strongly hinted that that was his goal now.
The fact is that many many players failed to step forward when they were players. And almost none have stepped forward since. But Greenwell stepping forward now is a way for him to stir the pot in a way that produces positive results on cleaning up baseball.
On a side note, I thought he cleverly dodged a question from ESPN (i don't remember who) about if players in the Red Sox clubhouse were doing roids. The strong impression I got was that they were and he knew they were. He dodged the point on question and moved on to a second part of it. It was an obvious dodge. He mentioned that he was tempted to use roids himself and it seemed consistent with everything else that he would have access.
It was a very insightful interview and I really like the guy (his socks aside). I hope Greenwell can create enough of a stir to stir up more action by mlb.
Man, if you think Olympic testing is anywhere close to catching the majority of cheaters, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
Hell, I say give it to Greenwell. Why let that scumbag lying idiot have anything. Screw Jose Canstrikeout.
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I was just thinkin wtf because he said it affected his legacy... now don't get me wrong I'm young but I remember Greenwell was a really good player but a legacy?...what legacy?
Now I heard his speak on the Dan Patrick Show, and I think it would have been alot better if he would have said something to the effect of "It would show the younger kids that if you cheat... you are not going to prosper"... rather than the approach he took...
with all that said... I think he deserves that award...
he also did a good job saying that he had considered taking steroids and then backed out...
He obviously just is another idiot Red Sock.
Well he did leave a postseason batting average of .146 in 17 games as something to remember
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