Who cheated?

[SpecMotors]

Maybe it's my sense of semantics, but I don't know how I feel about hearing that "Giambi cheated" or "Canseco cheated" or "Bonds cheated." What rule did they break?

Were the drugs illegal? Yes.

But they were illegal under the law, not under the rules of baseball.

Did any drug users break a moral code? Yes.

Since baseball had no way to penalize drug users until 2004, it just strikes me as wrong to call all these guys "drug cheats." Bad guys? Sure. Fallen idols? Almost certainly.

But the only way you could have cheated with steroids until last year was to go out to the mound, rub some of Barry's "flaxseed oil" on the ball and let 'er fly.

Just my two cents.

[NewEraYanks2527]

I cant say I agree they are not "cheaters" do steriods help you hit a curve better? No they dont but they do turn a long fly ball into a homerun, they allow you to achieve more strength hitting the ball farther.

[RhodyYanksFan]

What's illegal is illegal in baseball, too. There just wasn't a baseball punishment for the offense. The absense of a punishment in a non-legal context doesn't make an illegal action right or not cheating.

As far as I know, baseball has no rule against shooting the pitcher. By your logic, someone isn't a baseball "cheat" if they shoot Schilling to get to Kim, or whoever.

Cheat: v
1. To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game.

Sounds like those who took performance enhancing drugs are cheaters to me. Whether they were specifically pointed out by MLB or not, they acted dishonestly by not telling people what they were doing.

[SpecMotors]

Cheat: v
1. To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game.

Sounds like those who took performance enhancing drugs are cheaters to me. Whether they were specifically pointed out by MLB or not, they acted dishonestly by not telling people what they were doing.

I think that when most people talk about this, though, they're using that second definition -- that's why people complain that the records should be changed and everything. I agree that steroid use is dishonest. In fact, that's what I said. But when people refer to "cheaters," they're talking about breaking the rules of a game, I think.

Also, you couldn't shoot Schilling to get to Kim, just the same way that when A-Rod was running down to first base in Game 6, he couldn't be within the rules of baseball if he pulled out a gun and shot Arroyo. It still would have been interference.

[Evil Empire]

What will they do about the records that Bonds, McGwire etc have set? Maybe put an asterik kind of thing by their name like with Maris?

[Evil Empire]

Also, you couldn't shoot Schilling to get to Kim, just the same way that when A-Rod was running down to first base in Game 6, he couldn't be within the rules of baseball if he pulled out a gun and shot Arroyo. It still would have been interference.

What he was sayin is, it doesn't say you can't kill a pitcher to get to another pitcher in the MLB rule book , but its the law that it is illegial to kill. Therefore it would be illegial in baseball too.

[Mattpat11]

But they were illegal under the law, not under the rules of baseball.

I was always under the impression that baseball fell under the jurisdiction of "the law"

That's sort of the reason why players don't get shanked out there.

[SpecMotors]

Well, I think it would fall under the rules of not being allowed to charge the mound or throw a bat at the pitcher.

Does this remind anyone of the scene at the beginning of "The Last Boy Scout," where Billy Cole, played by Billy Blanks, shoots a defensive back on his way to the end zone, says "Ain't life a bitch?" and blows his own brains out?

[jonnyc39]

Using steroids to improve performance changes the game so that players that do not want to risk their health, reputation, and ultimately their careers are put at a distinct disadvantage.

That's cheating in my book.

[ThePost]

Steroid use has tarnished the game so in the end, we the fans have been cheated...so that makes the players who have done it the cheaters.

[stevethesoxfan]

I don't know the answer to this, so someone help me.

I realize that steroid testing started in 2004. But was it against the rules (in the rule book) to use steroids before 2004 anyway, despite the lack of testing?

[chanman7483]

They're outside of the circle of trust.

[Valleysox]

how ironic Roger Maris could be the one without an asterisk next to his name.

[Sixty one]

Cheat: v
1. To act dishonestly; practice fraud.
2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game.

Sounds like those who took performance enhancing drugs are cheaters to me. Whether they were specifically pointed out by MLB or not, they acted dishonestly by not telling people what they were doing.

You are absolutely right in my opinion! Baseball is a game that thrives on its history and records. Anytime a player does something as dishonest as taking drugs to help his performance on the playing field, it's wrong!! Players like Aaron, Mantle, Ruth and so many others got their records without steroids.

[BobbyMurcerFan]

Maybe it's my sense of semantics, but I don't know how I feel about hearing that "Giambi cheated" or "Canseco cheated" or "Bonds cheated." What rule did they break?

Were the drugs illegal? Yes.

But they were illegal under the law, not under the rules of baseball...

Taking illegal substances (including steroids) was indeed AGAINST the rules of baseball. While there wasn't steroid testing or a defined penalty, which gave the rule no teeth, taking steroids was against the rules of Major League Baseball.

[Yanks4eva1]

Maybe it's my sense of semantics, but I don't know how I feel about hearing that "Giambi cheated" or "Canseco cheated" or "Bonds cheated." What rule did they break?

Were the drugs illegal? Yes.

But they were illegal under the law, not under the rules of baseball.

Did any drug users break a moral code? Yes.

Since baseball had no way to penalize drug users until 2004, it just strikes me as wrong to call all these guys "drug cheats." Bad guys? Sure. Fallen idols? Almost certainly.

But the only way you could have cheated with steroids until last year was to go out to the mound, rub some of Barry's "flaxseed oil" on the ball and let 'er fly.

Just my two cents.

Come on now.

Roger Maris would probably still hold the HR season record if not for some performance enhancing drugs. Maris got that record the old fashioned way. He earned it with his natural ability. A record that stood for almost 40 years and then was broken, then broken again in less than 2 years.

Why? Because as BobbyMurcerFan so eloquently put it, taking illegal substances was and is against baseball rules, but certain athletes wanted to gain an unfair advantage over those who honed their natural skills to play this natural sport. When someone pulls out a little sheet during a test to gain an unfair advantage over someone who studied for that test with diligence, what's that called? I call that cheating. Baseball players who gained a advantage with a hyperdermic needle or a pill are cheaters. Period. Dot. End of story.

Dee

[ClayParker]

Why? Because as BobbyMurcerFan so eloquently put it, taking illegal substances was and is against baseball rules, but certain athletes wanted to gain an unfair advantage over those who honed their natural skills to play this natural sport. When someone pulls out a little sheet during a test to gain an unfair advantage over someone who studied for that test with diligence, what's that called? I call that cheating. Baseball players who gained a advantage with a hyperdermic needle or a pill are cheaters. Period. Dot. End of story.

What if at some point in the enlightened future they decide to allow steroids? How about all the players pre-steroids that took uppers?

The line between natural and artificial is kind of blurry these days because of medical and technological progress. For example, Tommy John surgery is pretty artificial since one part of the body is grafted onto another. Will Johan Santana never be considered one of the great pitchers in history (assuming he continues his amazing 2004 performance) because of this?

Same with the injection of artificial lubricating fluid to RJ's knee.

[PippyPinstripes]

if he pulled out a gun and shot Arroyo

^^ That was hot.