Diamond Mind : Advice on Purchase

[incarnadine]

I don't play video games as a rule (not enough money or time), but I think that I might really like DMB.

Who here has played it, and what are your thoughts?

[incarnadine]

(Apologies if this isn't really a SABR thread... but this is surely the audience who'd have the most to say on the topic.)

[2pacmasefan521]

How is the game? Is it really statistically-inclined, or just another Baseball Mogul?

[Soriambi]

Diamond Mind and Strat-o-Matic baseball are more statistically accurate than Out of the Park Baseball and Baseball Mogul, which are career/GM simulations (that is, you trade players, sign free agents, and play over the course of several seasons.)

The thing with Diamond Mind and Strat-o-Matic, though, is that the game only plays one season (though you can but several past seasons if you so choose, and replay them.) The probabilities are set so that the players will usually finish close to what they did during the regular season you're playing, though there's always a chance that they could finish with better or worse stats based on the roll of the dice, so to speak.

While you can "manage" the games, I've found that you'll find yourself putting guys into games based solely on their statistics for that season. For instance, if the team you're managing, let's say the Yankees, has a player who got 45 ABs and hit .100 and is a top prospect, you're not going to have him improve that season by giving him 500 ABs. Chances are he'll hit around .100 for 500 ABs. Same thing with pitchers. You might think that a star prospect would be better than your #5 starter, but if he only pitched 20 innings in the season you're losing and had a 6.00 ERA, chances are that's what he'd have for 200 innings if you use him that much.

On the other hand, if you have a guy who has 30 ABs and had a .600 BA, once you go over those 30 ABs there are advanced rules that will likely cause his performance to suffer. (Some of the rules actually don't allow you go go over the actual AB # by more than 10% or something like that.

I tend to like the GM year to year sims more than the completely stat based ones (as, among other things, each season from Strat and Diamond Mind are quite expensive). I think they're all quite enjoyable, though.

I've played more Strat than Diamond Mind, but that's about as good of a pro/con as I can give.

[ojo]

run, don't walk, to whatifsports.com

[Soriambi]

run, don't walk, to whatifsports.com

I've never tried any of their pay games, just running simulations and things. I'm gathering you're saying they're good? What do you like about them? What don't you like?

[Stupid Flanders]

I've never tried any of their pay games, just running simulations and things. I'm gathering you're saying they're good? What do you like about them? What don't you like?

Do not play whatifsports.com

I hate them.

I signed up ($20/game) last year, drafted, and played. My draft was heavy with relievers (my bullpen was outstanding, and I had specific roles assigned for them). My starters didn't have a lot of stamina, which was fine.

However, there was a known and reported bug where pitching roles didn't work. Whatifsports admitted there was a bug that would be fixed in the next "season." However, since my team was based on pitching and OBP, I got screwed completely. I asked simply for a new team in the next season and was told it would cost the regular $20 because "everyone was affected by the bug equally" which is NOT the case. The teams that loaded on offense won the league handily. It wasn't even close. Sometimes my manager would bring in my closer in the 5th inning and have him throw 4 innings and then use him again the next day, while some of my setup men NEVER PLAYED the whole season.

So if you want to be ripped off, play whatifsports.

[Stupid Flanders]

Oh, also the most "expensive" player in whatifsports.com? Who would cost the most against your cap to sign? Shane Spencer, 1998. How stupid is that?

[Mattinglyrules]

I own DMB version 8 and have the 2002 season disk that came with it. I agree with the assessment above with the season disks, that most players will perform how they did that actual season.

What I prefer using, however, is the projection disks that they offer. These can be purchased in February of each year, for about $20, and contain the most up-to-date rosters available. Unlike the season disks, however, you have a much larger pool of players to deal with, including the top minor leaguers in each organization. You are also able to edit players due to injury or age if you don't think the DMB ratings are as accurate as they need to be (although I think I only had to do that once or twice).

If you need to create a player, you can let the game decide on certain ratings, or you can fill out all of them (this takes a lot of time, though, because there are TONS of batting, pitching, and fielding ratings, including overall and situational (vRHP, vLHP, at night, in day, at home, on road, etc.)

As a matter of fact, ESPN has used DMB to project division, playoff and world series winners in the past few years.

Overall, it can be as complicated or easy as you want it to be. I thoroughly have enjoyed it, and recommend it.

[DiMaggio5CF]

I'm an Out of the Park guy.

Basically, if you're looking to play the part of a GM -- if you like making trades and signing free agents and seeing a franchise progress over the years -- then you want a game like Out of the Park, rather than the others mentioned in the thread.

Baseball Mogul also is a GM-style game, but I find Out of the Park to be far superior to Mogul. I actually started playing GM-sim games with Mogul years ago before switching to Out of the Park. I still download the Mogul demos, but none of them can compare to what OOTP is doing.

But if you're in the market for one-year replay sims, then you want the others mentioned in the thread.

EDIT: If you want to check out Out of the Park, go to www.ootpdevelopments.com

[Soriambi]

Basically, if you're looking to play the part of a GM -- if you like making trades and signing free agents and seeing a franchise progress over the years -- then you want a game like Out of the Park, rather than the others mentioned in the thread.

EDIT: If you want to check out Out of the Park, go to www.ootpdevelopments.com

Hey, I mentioned OOTP, too. Like I said in one of the "baseball video game threads" in JC-OOTP is my favorite baseball game on the market.

And thanks for the info on whatifsports, Flanders. I've reconsidered trying them now. (Though it seems that Shane Spencer is worth under 3,000,000 now, so that has been improved-I have a free trial version draft team, to try it out, and I'm having difficulty staying under 80 million. )

[ojo]

I've never tried any of their pay games, just running simulations and things. I'm gathering you're saying they're good? What do you like about them? What don't you like?

i think whatifsports does a great job. apparently stupidflanders has had issues with them....to clarify - teams cost $12.95, NOT $20. and shane spencer is NOT the most expensive player in the sim. by a longshot. a ridiculous notion that makes me question whether or not s flanders even played the game at all.

anyway....things i love about it:
competition against people all over the world.
some of the most creative ideas are used to build leagues (from the standard 'pick a franchise and build a 'best of' roster from that team between the years 1970-2004 --- to the absurd -- build a roster of where every player on your team must have the same letter in their last name --- and all ideas in between)...
also i love the fact the sim runs games 3x a day. that is, so long as my team is effective.

feel free to sitemail me if you're interested in giving it a shot. frankly, there's probably room for both say diamondmind and whatifsports. but to be honest, it's like crack. just be careful...lol!

[ojo]

Hey, I mentioned OOTP, too. Like I said in one of the "baseball video game threads" in JC-OOTP is my favorite baseball game on the market.

And thanks for the info on whatifsports, Flanders. I've reconsidered trying them now. (Though it seems that Shane Spencer is worth under 3,000,000 now, so that has been improved-I have a free trial version draft team, to try it out, and I'm having difficulty staying under 80 million. )

i wouldn't reconsider on whatifsports based on somebody's rambling about a horrible experience he had. there are literally thousands of satisfied customers over there. and for the record, i've won $500 on whatifsports - payable in amazon.com gift certificates.

shane spencer being 3 million - he's one of the best pinch hitters in the sim. if you're in a non-DH league....he comes up huge.

[Soriambi]

shane spencer being 3 million - he's one of the best pinch hitters in the sim. if you're in a non-DH league....he comes up huge.

Oh-based on the other salaries I was looking at, I agree that 3,000,000 isn't bad at all. I was talling Flanders that he wasn't the most expensive any more (like he said he was when he had played.)

Are there any leagues with a higher salary cap than 80 million? I figured out that 80 million means about 3.5 million a player, and I can't find enough quality full-time players for that kind of money. I can find some very good players for just under 7 million a year, but it seems the guys who are 3-4 million are all "role" players. If you want a superstar on your team, it's going to cost you 12-15 million, from what I can see (if you want a super-superstar, it can be as much as 20 million or so, and that's about a fourth of your team's entire salary) I'm finding it nearly impossible to contruct a half decent team with 80 million. I had a tough enough time constructing a half decent starting nine with any considerable money left over with 80 million.

[ojo]

Oh-based on the other salaries I was looking at, I agree that 3,000,000 isn't bad at all. I was talling Flanders that he wasn't the most expensive any more (like he said he was when he had played.)

Are there any leagues with a higher salary cap than 80 million? I figured out that 80 million means about 3.5 million a player, and I can't find enough quality full-time players for that kind of money. I can find some very good players for just under 7 million a year, but it seems the guys who are 3-4 million are all "role" players. If you want a superstar on your team, it's going to cost you 12-15 million, from what I can see (if you want a super-superstar, it can be as much as 20 million or so, and that's about a fourth of your team's entire salary) I'm finding it nearly impossible to contruct a half decent team with 80 million. I had a tough enough time constructing a half decent starting nine with any considerable money left over with 80 million.

yes - there's all sorts of different salary cap leagues. including up to 160 mil. the best leagues i think though are 80 and 100 million.

you don't need superstars in an 80 million league team, in my opinion...of course, there are thousands of ways to build a successful team...

a couple things to consider:
make sure one of your relievers is a $200,000 crap pitcher. use him all year in the 'mop up' role. that allows for more $$$ for the rest of your arms.

make sure you have at least 950 or so IP for your starters. put at least 400 to 500 more in the bullpen.

don't worry about spending a bunch of $$$ on your bench. pay ONE guy maybe 1.5 million to pinch hit. that's it.

i find pitching (low WHIP and HR/9) and defense are HUGE. some people will tell you otherwise....

btw, 2002 derek lowe, 85 john tudor and 88 orel hershiser were 3 of a 4 man rotation i used in an 80 million league that went on to win 113 games. lost in the league champ. series though. LOL!

[Stupid Flanders]

i think whatifsports does a great job. apparently stupidflanders has had issues with them....to clarify - teams cost $12.95, NOT $20. and shane spencer is NOT the most expensive player in the sim. by a longshot. a ridiculous notion that makes me question whether or not s flanders even played the game at all.

It WAS $20, and he WAS the most expensive player. If they changed that, fine, but don't call me a liar, dude.

[ojo]

i can't fathom at any time why shane spencer would have been the most expensive player. maybe the most expensive utility player between the years 1990 and 1998 or something. anyway, i apologize for sounding like i was calling you a liar. i meant to imply you were thinking of another simulation site.

i've been playing WiS since i guess 9/03...it recently had a price increase to 12.95...previously it was 9.95. 20 bones - i'm wondering if you're thinking of espn's all time challenge...

[WiffleWOOD]

i think this conversation has reached its peak. thanks for the info, everyone.