"I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff
no steven white + jorge depaula on a top 10 makes my eyes roll into the back of my head
Steven White not making the list is justifiable IMO. DePaula being on it depends on how much faith you have in the TJ recovery process.Originally Posted by 38Special
"I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff
Where is Chris Garcia? I wouldn't put too much stock in that list.
"It is the soldier, not the reporter, Who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Lt. Col., USMC
Rotoworld should stick to MLB for now on. Bad list.
White practically rolled over the competition in both A leagues. DePaula is going to be 27 before he pitches in the majors again (if he does).
I'm just not completely sold on White.
"I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff
The notable absence of Chris Garcia and with Marquez and Hoover on the list over Garcia makes me think that the guy who made the list completely forgot about him.
Vechionacci is pretty high up on the list though and it really does seem like there are lots of people excited with his potential.
Why are you not sold on White? He's the most probable guy to be a solid big league starter in the system. I haven't spoke to a scout from any team that doesn't think he's gonna be at least an inning eating rock #3 starter. There's nothing not to like, lol. He picked up a few MPH this year so he is not a true power pitcher. His curveball has made leaps and bounds. Not to mention, his changeup is coming along quite good as well.
I know you probably think this because statistically, his walk stats weren't superb in Battle Creek. Understandable but you gotta see this guy to understand he's going to be a solid (at least) big league pitcher.
ive always heard that term "innings eater" or #3, but what does that exactly mean. a high 4 ERA and less than a dozen wins per year? Any specific pitcher to compare to?
Yeah, I should have been more specific. The term is up for interpretation. Ok, I'll say specifically what I've been told and learned about White...
He's gonna eat innings. 200+IP type of guy. I also think he'll maybe strikeout 180-190 guys. His walks will continue to drop. He'll get a lot of decisions and have seasons like 15-11 with a 3.85 ERA. But, consistent #3 starters sometimes turn into something better. I'm trying to think of a guy who isn't great but settles kind of like White. Of course, it will only be a statistical comparison.
I'm not enthralled by any of his peripheral statistics. Tools are nice, but I like production more.
"I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff
Sometimes, its just the stuff.
It was noted in a recent BA edition that White had a sudden velocity increase this summer, going from a low 90's guy to a mid 90's guy. That kind of velocity moves you from fringe to main-stream prospect.
Most folks ignored him because he split the season- note well that most web-based reports tend to overlook the split year guys in favor of previously hyped players and players who put up impressive numbers at one stop.
Obviously AA separates the men from the boys, so this will be a telling year for many of the up and comers, but I would have counted White based on stuff alone. Remember, he was the ace of a very good Baylor team- not something to take lightly.
None of this is news to me, I still want to see production and White hasn't had any jaw dropping performance at this point.
"I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff
Steve White had a very solid season overall. I don't know if he's a top 10, but he is definitely one of the higher rated hurlers in the Yankee minor league system. If he starts strong in AA, he could get a call up to AAA before the season is out.
At this point White has to be evaluated more on his stuff than his stats (which are good). When/if he gets to about the AAA level, more emphasis should be place on his stats b/c White would've had an extra 1+ year to develop. White should be in the Top 10.
In no way should DePaula be there. How can they put him on there w/o seeing him pitch after TJ surgery? Plus, he's getting up there in age.
"It is the soldier, not the reporter, Who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Lt. Col., USMC
Because you know DePaula has proven himself in the minors. White's stats haven't been good yet either. White, who turns 24 this year, is not exactly a young buck either.
"I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff
Yeah, seriously... Hoover sucks.
Yes, that's just a joke... I really don't know enough about those players to make any comments on them hehe.
White has had a weird little career so far. AA is gonna be huge for him, if he can put it together there, look out.
Can't wait to see what Garcia and several others do this year. At some point Garcia, who hasn't been pitching long, could really take off.
I cant wait to see Marquez develop. His change sounds KILLER. Also, I'm excited to see what DeSalvo will do this season.
If he ever makes it to the big club and does well against Boston, his nickname could be 'The Boston Strangler'.
DePaula has to prove himself again after surgery.
White's stats have been good, not great, but good. Yes, he is 24, but White's only pitched 1 year of pro ball.
"It is the soldier, not the reporter, Who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Lt. Col., USMC
Duncan at 1st base? hmmm...
"I'd like to thank the Good Lord for making me a Yankee."
I fail to see how/where White's stats have been good.
"I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff
Unless Jeter moves, it'll be where he ends up.
Why are they not good? White's K:BB ratio can use a little work, but which prospect doesn't need work? Everything else is fine.
"It is the soldier, not the reporter, Who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Lt. Col., USMC
I think Andy Phillips had reason to be on that list. He was one of the best in AAA last year and has a shot to be on the yanks if giambi can't play.
De salvo is the sleeper.He can dominate if healthy.He is a little small but throws a real hard ball.
Some people fail to understand what scouting is all about. i used to think you could make accurate judgements on prospects by stats but you can't. If you are judging Steve White just by his stats, you are making a mistake. You have to see these guys play or at least speak to someone who has. You're only cheating yourself and fooling yourself thinking you know about Steve White by looking at his stats. When guys are working on new mechanival changes, etc, there walks may go higher than usual and K's may decrease. Stats don't tell you that, do they? They also don't tell you about the arm building process after a long layoff because of some major life issues he had in the offseason, do they? Just know that there's more to this game than stats.
I realize this. I'm not arguing about any that. My point is that White's performance, adjusted for league, ballpark, age, and experience context, just isn't impressive. He might have great stuff and that pulls him up in terms of overall prospects, but his performance thus far is nothing to take serious note of.
"I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff
How about the fact that he had a lot of distractions and mechanical adjustments which may have hampered that performance?
And how about good old fashioned ERA? Looks pretty good to me. He went through a lot of mechanical adjustments in spring training and that set him back before improving him.
I'd like to know if you are totally basing him just on his strikeout to walk ratio. You can't judge a prospect on that alone. Because if you do, the judgement isn't going to be accurate. Scouting players just doesn't work that way.
I'm looking at his statistical performance in isolation from his tools and what he went through. In isolation, his statistical performance is not good. I wouldn't look at ERA because that doesn't really tell me anything. It's more telling to look at his BB, HR, K, and H rates in addition to RA.
"I love Hughes, really I'm not kidding here, I am in love with him, I'm a straight male and I don't even know what he looks like, but I am in love."-JeterRodriguezSheff
Alright. Among the scouting world, he is the best higher level Yankee pitching prospect. I'd rather listen to them than stats.
1.12 WHIP 7.7 K/9 and only 8 HR in 21 starts. While he gave up a few more hits, his walks went down when he went to Tampa. Yes i guess he was somewhat old for who else is in the league, but they couldnt have started him at AA. I really think you're not giving him enough credit.
Apparently not, because this article clearly has Wang rated higher.
You are actually going to take this list seriously? They haven't a clue what they're talking about. They just take minimal info they get from reading online stuff plus how these guys perform statistically. I don't care what this article says because it is wrong.
agreed. I read rotoworld for its news reporting and just that
White should not be isolated from his tools, not at this stage. This list has flaws.
"It is the soldier, not the reporter, Who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, Who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, Who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, Who salutes the flag, Who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, Who allows the protestor to burn the flag."
Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, Lt. Col., USMC
Any one guy who ranks every team's farm system is going to come up with crap because its just rehashing other people's work. White is a better prospect than DePaula on the simple basis that he's still a prospect. DePaula is a guy who might be a decent reliever if his recovery from surgery goes well - worth keeping around but not a real prospect.
I think you can argue White's status as a premier prospect but putting him below DePaula is hard to fathom.
Trenton is an important step in White's development. I think if he takes off, he gets a kick upstairs to AAA. I am high on him, and like what I have read, which has been minimal, so far. He started late in the system, but he was not too shabby combined, last year.
The main problem with White is his Strikeout numbers were not what you would want from a 22 year old in A ball to be a top 10 in a system prospect. IMHO for any system really a guy needs to be striking out at least a guy a inning, be extremly young for the league, or not walk almost anybody at all. White doesnt fit into any of these criteria.
His performance is indistinguishable from hundreds of other college pitchers in their second pro year most of 99% of which are fringe prospects or already considered orginizational guys.
Well, I'm done trying to defend a guy that I know will be a #3 starter in the MLB in a couple years. You go with the stats, but I'll listen to the scouts.
not every pitcher relies on strike outs
Having a high K/9 doesnt mean instant success (though it is often a good indicator) - what is more important is keeping it consistent along with a low BB rate (a very good k/bb is important...)
Them Drays have some pretty damn good prospects too
Thats somewhat true but I already pointed out the basic exceptions to this. If a guys not Striking out prodigous amounts of guys in the midwest league then i tend to doubt he ever will in the Majors. White doesnt have exceptional control, nor was he young for the leagues he played in,
His stuff doesnt sound all that awesome anyways, theres tons of guys who can throw in the low ninties with mediocre control and secondary pitches, few of them ever become anything worth talking about. What is it about White that would make people think differently?
Not sure why I'm wasting my time but here it goes.......
White does not throw low 90's. He throws 94 MPH, touching 97 MPH. He didn't have big, gaudy results last year because he was going through new mechanical changes. He told me that last week. Nardi Contreras told me the same thing. Nardi put him atop the lists along with Wang. I think I'll listen to him rather than agree with people who do nothing more but judge prospects on stats. People can't make fair judgements unless you've seen the guy play. There is no problem with talking about a guy but thinking you are making a good judgement even though you have not listened to one scout about him or seen him play is ridiculous. You anti-Steve White people don't know the half of him.
If more of them ever got comfortable with numbers, they'd do better work.
By the way, I buy that White lost arm strength when he missed the year and only got it back late in the season.
In 2 seasons, White will be a middle of the rotation guy, an innings eater, with decent stats. Maybe a Jon Lieber type, with possibly a few more K's, as he throws harder.
Nothing wrong with that.
ive read his scouting reports, unfortunatly i Couldent actually see him play but I dont see how seeing a guy once or twice could really help me more then looking at stats anyways. His BA Scouting report reads.
.bounced back to touch 95-96 late in the 2004 season, though he pitched more at 90-94 mph
To me that doesnt sound all that spectacular, espescially when you consider most velocity reports on minor leaguers are overblown. BA is almost always overly optimistic about every minor leaguer but they only forcast him as innings eater.
I dont see how hes any better then say Matt DeSalvo who actually put up good numbers and apparently has similar stuff.
Velocity is over-rated, and control is under-rated. But consider this... DeSalvo is considered less a prospect because of his size, and how much effort he puts into his pitches.. which projects to longevity. Considering his back injury, they may be right. Most pitchers that are drafted are Tall... using momentum from the body, takes strain off the shoulder and arm. This is the big reason for DeSalvo's lower ranking.
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