Sox Didn't Have A Shot At Pavano

[BronxByTheBay]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1949178

"It should be noted that Pavano went to the Yankees for what one Red Sox official called "the right reasons -- family (his mother and fiancée). We actually offered a little more money, but his mother had bought the Yankee hat and his fiancée really wanted to go to New York. That's fine. That's good. We offered Brad Radke more money and more years, but he preferred living in Minnesota. For us, it's not good. In the big picture, it's very good. I just wish we had them both."

Gee...I thought the Red Sox willingly dropped Pavano in favor of signing David Wells and Renteria?

Golly...so...basically...Red Sox fans were full of sh**? Wow.

[YankeeFan1]

I thought that the Red Sox interest in Pavano was lukewarm.

[kamikaze]

Originally posted by YankeeFan1
I thought that the Red Sox interest in Pavano was lukewarm.

For lukewarm interest, he had dinner with schilling.

I don't know what they will do, if they had real interest

[Calvin and Hobbes]

Originally posted by BronxByTheBay


Golly...so...basically...Red Sox fans were full of sh**? Wow.

Surprise?

[cubswin]

Where did you ever get the notion that the Sox did not want Pavano? As far as I can tell, that's a myth being propagated by some of the members of this board.

[Calvin and Hobbes]

Originally posted by cubswin
Where did you ever get the notion that the Sox did not want Pavano? As far as I can tell, that's a myth being propagated by some of the members of this board.

The report by the Boston front office that they pulled out as his price moved up, even though in reality they offered him the most money, and the Pavanoverrated stuff on BDD. Not that that site is a representation of anything other than lunacy.

[S2]

Originally posted by Calvin and Hobbes
The report by the Boston front office that they pulled out as his price moved up, even though in reality they offered him the most money, and the Pavanoverrated stuff on BDD. Not that that site is a representation of anything other than lunacy.

I don't understand. Why do people jump on that site so much? It's one person's view of things. BDD doesn't speak for all Red Sox fans.

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Calvin and Hobbes
The report by the Boston front office that they pulled out as his price moved up, even though in reality they offered him the most money, and the Pavanoverrated stuff on BDD. Not that that site is a representation of anything other than lunacy.

re. BDD, you said it.

re. the front office, link me to a quote saying they didn't want him or that they were outpriced.

[Calvin and Hobbes]

Originally posted by S2
I don't understand. Why do people jump on that site so much? It's one person's view of things. BDD doesn't speak for all Red Sox fans.

"Not that that site is a representation of anything other than lunacy." I answered a question from Cubswin. He is a Red Sox fan, and people do go on his board, so, its not without relevance. I clearly qualified that statement by saying that it was not an aduequate representation.

[S2]

Originally posted by Calvin and Hobbes
"Not that that site is a representation of anything other than lunacy." I answered a question from Cubswin. He is a Red Sox fan, and people do go on his board, so, its not without relevance. I clearly qualified that statement by saying that it was not an aduequate representation.

I didn't mean to point out you personally, sorry for the confusion.

[Bodu713]

The Sox wanted him and I believe they wanted him badly. He chose the Yankees. End of story.

[ClayParker]

I'm very confused. Fiancee? I thought he was having carnal relations with Alyssa Milano fairly recently. Is he engaged to her, or did he suddenly find the love of his life somewhere else?

[Bodu713]

He did an interview, I forget with who and they asked him about the Milano thing. He said he broke up with his girlfriend and was sort of doing the "out on the town" thing and he called the date with Milano a huge mistake. I think it was in Espn the magazine. And then he realized there was someone back home who loved him and he got back together with the girlfriend. They must have become engaged since. The article was only a few weeks ago if that.

[Luciano]

Originally posted by ClayParker
I'm very confused. Fiancee? I thought he was having carnal relations with Alyssa Milano fairly recently. Is he engaged to her, or did he suddenly find the love of his life somewhere else?

They broke up a while back.

I think she then went on to make fun of his dick size in a men's magazine. Classy.

[ClayParker]

Thanks. I wonder if Alyssa would have been as influential in his choice of teams had they remained an item.

[ClayParker]

Originally posted by Luciano
They broke up a while back.

I think she then went on to make fun of his dick size in a men's magazine. Classy.

I really hope that it's genetic and not a indicator of performance enhancer usage.

[Buzah!]

The funny part is that the Red Sox source said that Pavano didn't sign with their unholy alliance for the right reasons. I take that's why they haven't spent a great deal of time slamming him. Thank goodness he didn't tell them to screw off for the "wrong" reasons.

[noneckwilliams]

Originally posted by YankeeFan1
I thought that the Red Sox interest in Pavano was lukewarm.

Pavano and Pedro were their first priorities. Of course since Theo is a genius that means that John Halama was their main target this offseason.

[Circle Change]

Why is there still so much news about a guy who had a lower K rate than Brad Radke last season while pitching in the NL? Jesus Christ.

[bakntime]

Originally posted by Circle Change
Why is there still so much news about a guy who had a lower K rate than Brad Radke last season while pitching in the NL? Jesus Christ.

Excuse us for discussing a pitcher that the Yankees just acquired, and excuse me for not thinking that K rate is the only way to judge a pitcher. Next time we'll discuss more about Radke and his K rate.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Circle Change
Why is there still so much news about a guy who had a lower K rate than Brad Radke last season while pitching in the NL? Jesus Christ.

Then why did Boston offer Pavano more than Radke?

[JeffWeaverFan]

No no no. This report is clearly not true. I definitely remember talking to a few red sox fans that told me that the red sox actually did not want Pavano. Well, they said that the Yankees offered Pavano more money and that the red sox didn't want to go that high and they actually wanted Wells and Renteria instead of Pavano and a lower tier SS.

Should I call out these Red Sox fans who continued to not read numerous sources that stated the truth and instead continued to make fools of themselves by making up lies??? Yes, I should.

So Scull572, porshe986 ("He did choose to go to the Yanks, but only after the Sox announced they were going in a different direction".) and (the biggest moron of them all) S2, what do you have to say now?

[IncredibleByNature]

Originally posted by bakntime
Excuse us for discussing a pitcher that the Yankees just acquired, and excuse me for not thinking that K rate is the only way to judge a pitcher. Next time we'll discuss more about Radke and his K rate.

Word.

[Dooley Womack]

Originally posted by Circle Change
Why is there still so much news about a guy who had a lower K rate than Brad Radke last season while pitching in the NL? Jesus Christ.

Considering that you're a Twins fan, I guess you're not used to an influx of news.

[StatenIslandYankee]

Originally posted by Calvin and Hobbes
Surprise?

I know I'm not

[Yankees1962]

Where did you ever get the notion that the Sox did not want Pavano? As far as I can tell, that's a myth being propagated by some of the members of this board.

Because certain Sox fans and the media initially suggested that notion right after the Sox signed Wells and the Yankee/Pavano signing became a reality.

[MaineSoxFan]

Originally posted by Buzah!
The funny part is that the Red Sox source said that Pavano didn't sign with their unholy alliance for the right reasons. I take that's why they haven't spent a great deal of time slamming him. Thank goodness he didn't tell them to screw off for the "wrong" reasons.

Why? Have they "slammed" a lot of players this off-season?

[Espinosa's Glasses]

Its not the RS fans... I would rather Pavano over Wells no matter what team I rooted for...

It all boils down to the media... Even though they don't have to be (Because the Sox are World Champions...) people like Gammons attempt to be some sort of a warm blanket... a comforter

[Prickly Pete]

So, this thread is based on a column by Peter Gammons, right?

The same Peter Gammons who is mocked relentlessly on this site for being constantly wrong, out of touch and a Yankee hater, right?

Basically everyone has agreed that he's a joke and there's no reason to ever listen to anything he says, right?

OK, just checking.

As far as this issue goes, the Red Sox clearly wanted Pavano. If there are people arguing otherwise, then they're probably just trying to make themselves feel better about losing out on him.

[YankeePride1967]

Originally posted by noneckwilliams
Pavano and Pedro were their first priorities. Of course since Theo is a genius that means that John Halama was their main target this offseason.

There you go. It was all part of Theo's brilliant plan (why is it everytime I hear that Guinness commercial "brilliant" I picture Gammons talking about Theo?). Theo's brilliant plan had them wanting Clement, Wells and Halama. At no time did Boston have any interest in Pedro or Pavano!

[YankeeFan1]

Originally posted by Dooley Womack
Considering that you're a Twins fan, I guess you're not used to an influx of news.

LOL! Harsh, but freaking true.

[BronxByTheBay]

Originally posted by S2
I don't understand. Why do people jump on that site so much? It's one person's view of things. BDD doesn't speak for all Red Sox fans.

Actually YOU are one of the people who argued that the Sox didn't want Pavano. Nice attempt to dodge traffic, though.

[Circle Change]

Originally posted by bakntime
Next time we'll discuss more about Radke and his K rate.

Why the hell would you want to do that?

[patrick.o]

Originally posted by BronxByTheBay
what one Red Sox official called "the right reasons -- family.....That's fine. That's good...... For us, it's not good. In the big picture, it's very good."

It amazes me that someone can say something like that and the thread stills turns instantly into a bickerfest.

I swear, Gandhi could come here and post "baseball is good" and by the end of the first page it would be about "Johnny Damon needs a shave" and "without Carlos Beltran baseball isn't so good."

[yankeebot]

Originally posted by patrick.o

I swear, Gandhi could come here and post "baseball is good" and by the end of the first page it would be about "Johnny Damon needs a shave" and "without Carlos Beltran baseball isn't so good."

What does that Gandhi guy know about baseball anyway? I mean is baseball really good if you have to put up with unshaven, long-haired neanderthals AND if you don't have Carlos Beltrain?

[S2]

Originally posted by BronxByTheBay
Actually YOU are one of the people who argued that the Sox didn't want Pavano. Nice attempt to dodge traffic, though.

I hate to bring past threads into this, but I feel the need to reply to you calling me out.

I would have responded earlier but I was looking at the infamous "Carl Pavano Thread" to see where I said "The Red Sox didn't want Carl Pavano". And sure enough, I never said that.

I stated, with the help of numerous links to numerous sites, that, in fact, the Red Sox wanted Pavano, but not at the price and years it looked like he was going to command. As anyone who has seen the market this year, it is much different than many thought it would be before the offseason started. The Red Sox misjudged the market, and they missed out on Pavano, instead landing David Wells, who only will be making $4M per year guaranteed.

And by accounts elsewhere, Pavano wanted to go to New York, no matter the other contracts out there, so Boston's interest or lackthereof is irrelevant.

[BronxByTheBay]

Originally posted by S2
I hate to bring past threads into this, but I feel the need to reply to you calling me out.

I would have responded earlier but I was looking at the infamous "Carl Pavano Thread" to see where I said "The Red Sox didn't want Carl Pavano". And sure enough, I never said that.

I stated, with the help of numerous links to numerous sites, that, in fact, the Red Sox wanted Pavano, but not at the price and years it looked like he was going to command. As anyone who has seen the market this year, it is much different than many thought it would be before the offseason started. The Red Sox misjudged the market, and they missed out on Pavano, instead landing David Wells, who only will be making $4M per year guaranteed.

And by accounts elsewhere, Pavano wanted to go to New York, no matter the other contracts out there, so Boston's interest or lackthereof is irrelevant.

Wait a second..how could the Red Sox have wanted Pavano, but "not at the price and years he wanted" and yet the Sox official quoted in the Gammons piece states that the Sox offered Pavano MORE money than the Yankees? How does that work, exactly?

Sorry, but you're still clinging to the party line even though the party changed that line a while ago. The point is you argued that the Sox decided they didn't want Pavano because of the money. Yet as it turns out, the Sox DID want Pavano, and even offered more money than the Yanks, but he chose the Yankees instead due to family. How in the world does that come close to supporting your argument? He spurned the Sox...the Sox did not "choose" someone else. They simply didn't get their man. Why is this so hard for Sox fans to admit? I know...because the WS win was supposed to change everything. Free agents were now going to line up in droves to play for Boston, and the Yankees would be left out in the cold. Too bad reality came crashing down instead.

[S2]

Originally posted by BronxByTheBay
Wait a second..how could the Red Sox have wanted Pavano, but "not at the price and years he wanted" and yet the Sox official quoted in the Gammons piece states that the Sox offered Pavano MORE money than the Yankees? How does that work, exactly?

Gammons? Gammons? What the hell does he know? The same Gammons who said on Sportscenter that The Sox wanted Pedro OR Pavano, and had decided on Pedro, before Pedro lied to them to drive up the price on the Mets? Is that the Gammons you talk about? Please.

You'll need a more reliable source than him, especially here. Gammons isn't popular amongst some Yankee fans here, unless he says what they want to hear.

[BronxByTheBay]

Originally posted by S2
Gammons? Gammons? What the hell does he know? The same Gammons who said on Sportscenter that The Sox wanted Pedro OR Pavano, and had decided on Pedro, before Pedro lied to them to drive up the price on the Mets? Is that the Gammons you talk about? Please.

You'll need a more reliable source than him, especially here. Gammons isn't popular amongst some Yankee fans here, unless he says what they want to hear.

So a guy who spends his time bashing the Yankees, and told anyone who would listen that Pavano would wind up with the Sox...has a reason to lie about a Boston offical stating they lost the Pavano sweeps? Right. The same Gammons who even as late as Friday was stating the Sox might be involved in a deal for Randy Johnson? THAT guy is going to fabricate a quote showing that a player took LESS money to play for the Yanks instead of the Sox?

Well, hey, if you can't admit you were wrong and just love drinkin' that Theo kool-aid, so be it. This stone is not yielding any blood, so I will cease squeezing it.

[YankyDave]

Originally posted by kamikaze
For lukewarm interest, he had dinner with schilling.

I don't know what they will do, if they had real interest

If they have real interest they send boy wonder to eat turkey and make macaroni art with the player's kids. If all goes well, Theo's mom even lets him have a sleepover.

[S2]

Originally posted by BronxByTheBay
So a guy who spends his time bashing the Yankees, and told anyone who would listen that Pavano would wind up with the Sox...has a reason to lie about a Boston offical stating they lost the Pavano sweeps? Right. The same Gammons who even as late as Friday was stating the Sox might be involved in a deal for Randy Johnson? THAT guy is going to fabricate a quote showing that a player took LESS money to play for the Yanks instead of the Sox?

Well, hey, if you can't admit you were wrong and just love drinkin' that Theo kool-aid, so be it. This stone is not yielding any blood, so I will cease squeezing it.

This isn't about me being wrong. This is about the articles that I linked to be wrong.

And thank you for proving my point that people only listen to Gammons when it fits their arguments.

[Circle Change]

Originally posted by Dooley Womack
Considering that you're a Twins fan, I guess you're not used to an influx of news.

I apologize for being so blunt, I honestly would've said the same exact thing if the Red Sox had signed him and somebody created a thread titled "Yanks Didn't Have A Shot At Pavano".

As for the Twins, most of the news to be found is within the minor league system and I don't really mind that because their ability to succeed the way they do gets them accolades such asthis, and it's something to be proud of.

As for Carl, I'm sure he'll do fine pitching behind the most dominant lefty of our time unless somebody here saw Lefty Grove in his hey day.

[YankeePride1967]

Originally posted by Prickly Pete
So, this thread is based on a column by Peter Gammons, right?

The same Peter Gammons who is mocked relentlessly on this site for being constantly wrong, out of touch and a Yankee hater, right?

Basically everyone has agreed that he's a joke and there's no reason to ever listen to anything he says, right?

OK, just checking.

As far as this issue goes, the Red Sox clearly wanted Pavano. If there are people arguing otherwise, then they're probably just trying to make themselves feel better about losing out on him.

With Gammons, I give him more believability when it comes to matters Red Sox.

[BronxByTheBay]

Originally posted by GoRocket
With Gammons, I give him more believability when it comes to matters Red Sox.

That was my point to S2. Gammons is the ultimate Sox homer...what possible reason could he have for making up a quote that makes them look bad?

[Prickly Pete]

Originally posted by GoRocket
With Gammons, I give him more believability when it comes to matters Red Sox.

Right.

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ns#post1803446

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ns#post1812856

[YankeePride1967]

Originally posted by Prickly Pete


Right.

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ns#post1803446

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread...ns#post1812856

Nice try, I said more believability, not believablity.

[Dooley Womack]

Originally posted by Circle Change
I apologize for being so blunt, I honestly would've said the same exact thing if the Red Sox had signed him and somebody created a thread titled "Yanks Didn't Have A Shot At Pavano".

As for the Twins, most of the news to be found is within the minor league system and I don't really mind that because their ability to succeed the way they do gets them accolades such asthis, and it's something to be proud of.

As for Carl, I'm sure he'll do fine pitching behind the most dominant lefty of our time unless somebody here saw Lefty Grove in his hey day.

No problem, we're cool. I was actually being facetious and your line seemed too tempting to ignore

[S2]

Originally posted by BronxByTheBay
So a guy who spends his time bashing the Yankees, and told anyone who would listen that Pavano would wind up with the Sox...has a reason to lie about a Boston offical stating they lost the Pavano sweeps? Right. The same Gammons who even as late as Friday was stating the Sox might be involved in a deal for Randy Johnson? THAT guy is going to fabricate a quote showing that a player took LESS money to play for the Yanks instead of the Sox?

Well, hey, if you can't admit you were wrong and just love drinkin' that Theo kool-aid, so be it. This stone is not yielding any blood, so I will cease squeezing it.

OK, after thinking this through, I have come to the conclusion that nothing good can come from threads being turned into constant Red Sox-Yankees or Red Sox fans-Yankee fans wars.

However, at the time I originally said that the Sox didn't want Pavano at the price/years he was commanding, there were no reports (or at least reports I had seen) that the Sox had offered more moeny/years. Looking back, I was wrong. I had come to my conclusions by reading reports by Jayson Stark and Gammons and others who backed my theory, at the time. However, Gammons has now changed his story (Pedro or Pavano) and I am taking the hits, for not coming off my stance.

I was wrong.

[Snatch Catch]

Originally posted by S2

I was wrong.

Wow. That's very admirable.

I'm being 100% dead serious. Bravo.

Even though I may not agree with your posts a lot, I give you a lot of credit here.

[Calvin and Hobbes]

Originally posted by Snatch Catch
Wow. That's very admirable.

I'm being 100% dead serious. Bravo.

Even though I may not agree with your posts a lot, I give you a lot of credit here.

I'm not impressed. He tried to hide behind BDD's bull................ and only admitted it when he got called out and it was clear no one was buying it.