Luis Tiant signing with the Yankees in 1978

[TrishPike]

Sorry this isn't a steroids related thread but...

In Nov 1978 Luis Tiant signed with the Yankees - he'd been a Red Sox since 1971, and was there for all the Munson-Fisk, Fisk-Pinella, etc etc fights (and apparently cried after the 78 AL East playoff game). Not only did he sign with his team's arch-enemy, but it hasn't affected his legacy in Boston at all - but Boggs, Clemens, it did (Pedro it DEFINITELY would as well). Any reasons? Was it just because Steinbrenner gave him more money? He signed very early on during that hot stove season, it seemed nobody else had time to sign him. Thoughts?

[drjeckyl]

My only thought is that it was such a long time ago, alot of NE fans may not remember that he played with the Yankees. As I recall, he played only for a couple of years.

What's interesting about Clemmens is that we got him from Toronto, after the redsox basically let him go. I get the feeling that he wasn't too well liked in NE towards the end of his time with the redsox. Would you agree?

[Kiwiwriter]

I remember that...he did a few commercials for a hot dog line, saying, "I'grea' to be wid a wiener," but he didn't pitch too well in 1979 or 1980. I think when Dick Howser took him out in one 1980 game, Luis hurled his mitt into the seats, giving some kid either a souvenir or a bruise. The Sox thought he was done, and unloaded him along with Bill Lee, who went to Montreal for the unforgettable Stan Papi. Lee helped the Expos win their only division title, but that was about it. But there are similarities to the Pedro situation now. Only I don't think we'll see Pedro in any leisure suits.

[HoraceClarke]

Now THAT'S a dead Kitten....no doubt about it.Dead,DEAD. DEAD!

[Mattpat11]

What does it say about the current direction of this team that I saw "Luis Tiant signing with the Yankees" (I looked at it quickly) and wasn't shocked?

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Mattpat11
What does it say about the current direction of this team that I saw "Luis Tiant signing with the Yankees" (I looked at it quickly) and wasn't shocked?

[Catfish29]

Originally posted by TrishPike
Sorry this isn't a steroids related thread but...

In Nov 1978 Luis Tiant signed with the Yankees - he'd been a Red Sox since 1971, and was there for all the Munson-Fisk, Fisk-Pinella, etc etc fights (and apparently cried after the 78 AL East playoff game). Not only did he sign with his team's arch-enemy, but it hasn't affected his legacy in Boston at all - but Boggs, Clemens, it did (Pedro it DEFINITELY would as well). Any reasons? Was it just because Steinbrenner gave him more money? He signed very early on during that hot stove season, it seemed nobody else had time to sign him. Thoughts?

I seem to recall that Tiant's situation in 1978 was similar to Pedro's today in that the Red Sox felt that his better days were behind him. At season's end he turned 38 and I'm sure the Red Sox didn't want to commit many years to him.
What I am sure of, however, is that the Yankees offered him a scouting deal that was to last way beyond his playing days (actually a lifetime deal) that apparently was too good to pass up. However, the biggest thing I remember and the thing that I think accounts for his quick decision to sign with the Yankees had to do with Thurman Munson. Tiant had not seen his parents for many years because they were in Cuba and obviously could not get out. Shortly after they were reunited in the United States (1975 or 1976) they both passed away. Their deaths happened relatively close to one another. Tiant said, at the time he signed with New York that he wanted to play with Munson because when his mother and father died, Munson sent a fruit basket and a nice note to Tiant's home. Tiant said that Munson's class impressed him and that he was the only player outside of some Red Sox players who did something like that. Perhaps that expalins why he signed with NY so quickly (2 weeks) after declaring free agency in 1978.
John

[TrishPike]

Originally posted by drjeckyl
My only thought is that it was such a long time ago, alot of NE fans may not remember that he played with the Yankees. As I recall, he played only for a couple of years.

What's interesting about Clemmens is that we got him from Toronto, after the redsox basically let him go. I get the feeling that he wasn't too well liked in NE towards the end of his time with the redsox. Would you agree?

El Tiante going to the Yankees is definitely not a part of 'Red Sox Lore'. I found it when I was looking up his stats online. I wasn't born yet in 78, but Tiant definitely is still remembered in Boston (he was part of the parade, on the 2004 DVD, etc).

As far as Roger goes, I didn't like baseball back then, but I know the Red Sox *did* want to resign him, but Roger hadn't pitched up to standards in years. His record from 93-96 was 40-39, he had gained a lot of weight, and he traditionally never did well in the post-season for Boston. Yet Clemens wanted to be paid like one of the best pitchers of that time (which at that time, he wasn't).

I have friends who still adore Clemens, and I have friends who hate him and call him 'traitor' and such. I don't think he wasn't liked at the end of his tenure, persay, more like people think his performance was disappointing. Tim Wakefield was the ace of that team in 95 to put it in perspective! Nobody hated him until he left and did so well in Toronto (and then NY).

[RedRooster]

When Tiant left Boston in '78, a lot of Red Sox fans blamed ownership for letting him go without much of a fight. There was growing resentment against Haywood Sullivan and Buddy Laroux (sp?), who would over the next few years slash payroll and decimate the team. The anger being directed at ownership kept the focus away from Tiant.

Many people felt the same anger at Red Sox ownership when they let Clemens go in the late 90s. And, had Clemens struggled as badly as did Tiant, there might not be the resentment you see today. But with Clemens turning it around so quickly (two Cy Young seasons right after leaving) lead to the impression that he gave up on the Red Sox and let himself get out of shape in his final years in Boston (I'm not saying that's true -- I'm saying that is the impression many people held).

If Pedro leaves (which he probably won't), how will Red Sox fans react? Will he be a Tiant or a Clemens? I think it will be closer to a Clemens reaction, at least initially, since he's received a very good offer from the Red Sox. If he leaves because the Red Sox won't guarantee a fourth year, I'm sorry, I'm with the Red Sox here 100% (name me three 33-year-old pitchers you would offer 4 guaranteed years). Pedro will be seen as just another greedy ballplayer.

But there is another factor here. Pedro, like Tiant, will be remembered for winning some very big ballgames (even a few against the Yankees). And if he does leave, his last game for the Red Sox would be that gem in Game 3 (with an assist to Jeff Suppan). One of the complaints about Clemens, even before he left, was that he came up short in pressure situations (Game 6 of the 1986 WS, numerous matchups with Dave Stewart and the A's). Yeah, Clemens gave us those 20 strikeout games, but it's what happens in pennant stretches and the postseason, not in meaningless games against the Mariners or Tigers, that really matters to Red Sox fans.

So, in conclusion -- if he goes away, the initial reaction from the Nation will be negative (especially if he signs with the Yankees, which I really won't think will happen). If he struggles, wherever he goes, and talks in later years about what a thrill his years in Boston were, we'll be willing to let him be a NESN analyst. But if he thrives, especially with the Yankees -- and especially if he wins a title in the Bronx -- he'll be another Rocket.

[kamikaze]

Originally posted by Mattpat11
What does it say about the current direction of this team that I saw "Luis Tiant signing with the Yankees" (I looked at it quickly) and wasn't shocked?

[duke55dodgers]

Originally posted by TrishPike
Sorry this isn't a steroids related thread but...

Please....don't be sorry....

Good topic! I don't have much to add on this one but it's a good read.

[wexy]

Here is Luis's record

http://retrosheet.org/boxesetc/Ptianl101.htm

[stevethesoxfan]

Originally posted by TrishPike

Yet Clemens wanted to be paid like one of the best pitchers of that time (which at that time, he wasn't).

The jerk had signed a contract with the Red Sox that made him the highest paid pitcher in baseball. THAT'S when he decided to get lazy, fatten up, and go 40-39. THEN when it came time to re-sign, he got upset because he wasn't getting enough respect..:rolleyes:

In the immortal words of Ralph Kramden: "Don't get me started!!!" on him. &po'd&

[Nome]

There have been quite a lot of players who were with both the Red Sox and Yankees and still are remembed fondly by both Cities. Off the top of my head, Elston Howard and Sparky Lyle are two. Anyone remember others so I don't have to look it up?

Manager Joe McCarthy can also be counted here.

Andy

[Casey37]

Originally posted by Kiwiwriter
I remember that...he did a few commercials for a hot dog line, saying, "I'grea' to be wid a wiener,"

Actually, he "growled" it.

[Dave Visbeck]

My only thought is that it was such a long time ago, alot of NE fans may not remember that he played with the Yankees. As I recall, he played only for a couple of years.

It hurt when he left Boston for New York but I had nothing but fond memories of the man. It was Haywood Sullivan's fault that "El Tiante" left the team behind. Tiant had requested a two-year contract but Sullivan responded with a one-year deal. Sullivan thought he was too old for a longer contract. That stung Tiant.

"El Tiante" was with the Red Sox for 8 seasons, but if you only look at the last 6 years he had given the Sox where he had been used only as a starter, his record had been 106-68 over those years... that's right near 18 wins a year with 11 losses. He started an average of 35 games a year during that time. He ended his Boston career with 122 wins and 81 losses, a .601 winning percentage - even though his first year only showed a 1 and 7 record. It was first thought he was washed up after leaving Minnesota in 1970.

His Red Sox ERA was 3.36 for the 8 seasons. 1,630 strikeouts and 501 walks in 1,774 2/3 innings. 26 Shutouts. 1 and 0 in post-season against the A's in 75'... a shut-out against the 3-time consecutive World Series Champs. 2 and 0 against the Big Red Machine in the World Series where he pitched another shut-out!

"You can talk about anybody else on that team (1975 Boston Red Sox) you want to, but when the chips are on the line, Luis Tiant is the greatest competitor I've ever seen." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Jim Palmer

"If a man put a gun to my head and said I'm going to pull the trigger if you lose this game, I'd want Luis Tiant to pitch that game." - Boston Red Sox Manager Darrell Johnson

"(Luis) Tiant didn't join the Red Sox until mid-career, but he became one of the most popular players in club history. A balding, overweight starter whose age was often estimated at several years higher that its 'official' listing, Tiant spoke with a thick Cuban accent and would smoke cigars anywhere, including the clubhouse whirlpool and shower. He was a renowned locker-room prankster, but was serious on the mound, winning 20 games three times for Boston. He baffled hitters with a rocking, twisting windup and an assortment of release points that ranged from over-the-top to nearly underhand." - Steve Holtje in baseballibrary.com

"I've never heard anything like that ("Loo-Eee, Loo-Eee, Loo-Eee" chanting in Fenway Park) in my life. But I'll tell you one thing: (Luis) Tiant deserved every bit of it." - Carl Yastrzemski


"When I'm in Boston, I always feel like I'm home. I almost cry, I feel so good." - Luis Tiant


After leaving the mound, Luis Tiant was inducted into the Red Sox Hall of Fame in 1997. After serving as a minor league pitching coach for the Los Angeles Dodgers and minor league instructor for the Chicago White Sox, he was named the coach of Savannah College of Art and Design's baseball team in 1998. He rejoined the Boston Red Sox organization when he was named pitching coach of the Single-A Lowell Spinners in 2002.

Quite simply... I love the Guy.