Boxing, anyone?

[BroadwayBomber55]

There's the lawsuit from Manny...
http://www.fightnews.com/?p=34057

The complaint: http://www.fightnews.com/filedcomplaint-pacquiao.pdf

[frostdude1]

This is so dumb. I was looking forward to this fight but now I don't even wanna see it anymore

[BroadwayBomber55]

This is so dumb. I was looking forward to this fight but now I don't even wanna see it anymore

We're seeing a fight between Manny and Floyd, but it's a out-of-the-ring girlslap fight over drug testing flaps between the both of them.

This is starting to get out of hand. Its more like a bad reality show or something. Both men are getting carried away with this. Enough already.

Seriously, this is nothing but another stunt from Manny.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Even Dana White, the president of the Ultimate Fighting Championship, a mixed martial arts organization, is sick and tired of this drama.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009...ao-have-fight/

Mayweather and Pacquiao need to fight already

For those living under a rock, there is a proposed mega-fight between top pound-for-pound boxers Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao on March 13 at the MGM Grand.

That fight has been placed in jeopardy, however, as Mayweather has called for his opponent to undergo Olympic-style drug testing, which includes drawing blood.

Pacquaio has refused to agree to Mayweather's terms and a stalemate has resulted.

White said Wednesday he hoped the fighters would give the fans the fight they want to see.

"At the end of the day, I want to see that fight," White said. "Come on; let's fight. My thing is, who is Floyd to ask (Pacquiao) to take a drug test? (Pacquiao) has never failed a drug test. Why would he agree to take the Olympic-style drug test? It's crazy."

I don't want to see both Manny and Floyd fight one opponent before they fight each other.

Bob Arum is lining up Manny with Paulie Malignaggi, another fighter who is accusing the Pacman of taking performance enhancing drugs, or WBA Super-Welterweight champion Israeli Yuri Foreman to see if Manny can go for his 8th world title in his 8th different weight class if the fight is officially off.

Meanwhile, Matthew Hatton, the brother of Ricky 'The Hitman' Hatton is ready to step in to face Pretty Boy Floyd if Pacquiao and his camp back off.

[Rui]

This is no longer a publicity stunt. For a while I thought that they were trying to build up the fight, but there's no shot that Pacquiao would let his name be under suspicion for this long "just to build up the fight". And there's no way Pacquiao would file a lawsuit "just to build up the fight".

This is a legitimate obstacle that's blocking the fight. The question is no longer WHEN Floyd and Pac will settle their differences, but rather IF they're going to settle them.

[BroadwayBomber55]

This is no longer a publicity stunt. For a while I thought that they were trying to build up the fight, but there's no shot that Pacquiao would let his name be under suspicion for this long "just to build up the fight". And there's no way Pacquiao would file a lawsuit "just to build up the fight".

This is a legitimate obstacle that's blocking the fight. The question is no longer WHEN Floyd and Pac will settle their differences, but rather IF they're going to settle them.

That too.

I rather talk about the Super Six Middleweight Boxing Classic right now instead of the Manny Pacquiao-Floyd Mayweather mess.

[BroadwayBomber55]

No Mayweather – Pacquiao? No Worries: Other Exciting Fights We Can Watch And Other Matches That Should Be Canned This Year
http://www.eastsideboxing.com/news.php?p=22377&more=1

Paul Williams (38 -1-0) vs Sergio Martinez (44-2-2) II
Though we already know that these guys are competitors who do not hold back in every round, nobody expected their first fight to be that competitive and action-packed. The back and forth battle all throughout the fight, the drama of having to get up from a knockdown to score your own knockdown, and the seemingly controversial decision, the rematch of these boxers is the one fight boxing fans, casual or not, should wait for..

Timothy Bradley (25-0-0) vs Manny Pacquiao (50-3-2)
If the fight with Mayweather falls off, this is one of the two potential Pacquiao fights that we ought to see. Bradley has shown in his last few fights that he has the complete package to be the future face of boxing. Great boxing skills and athleticism, solid chin, and the attitude of a throwback fighter who fights everyone, Bradley presents the best challenge to the reigning P4P best in Pacquaio. Perhaps, it is too early to tell this, but I will say this nonetheless: The match-up could be the most exciting, most explosive fight in the horizon next year. Bar none.

Manny Pacquiao (50-3-2) vs Shane Mosley (46-5-0) / Andre Berto (25-0-0)
Aside from the Bradley fight (I am no longer counting on the Mayweather fight), this is the only fight for Pacquaio that matters. To further cement his legacy in the ATG, and to prove he can rule a division, he needs to fight the winner of this championship match. Berto, like Mayweather, Jr., is a slick, technically-skilled young champion who should give Pacquiao a stylistic nightmare. Mosley, on the other hand, would bring his experience, athleticism, and power to try to out brawl Pacquiao in possibly a FOTY contender.

Yuriorkis Gamboa (16-0-0) vs Juan Manuel Lopez (27-0-0)
Gamboa is one great prospect against a prime and hungry young lion like Lopez; this has the potential to be the next Rafael Marquez – Israel Vasquez trilogy. Both has taken on all the fights they could possibly take, and though there are still some names in their respective divisions they could take, this match-up between two very good boxer-punchers has been the talk of the boxing world for some time now. It has to happen, and it has to happen in 2010.

David Haye (23-1-0) vs Vitali (39-2-0) or Vladimir (53-3-0) Klitschko.
It is about time the talk must be backed up with walk, and if this fight never happens next year, it would be the time for David Haye to just shut his mouth permanently. Let us face it, the heavyweight division right now is all about the Klitscho brothers, and nothing else. It is not about the Arreolas, the Thompsons, the Peters, and especially not about the Ruiz’. So when a fighter goes up to mix in the division, it is because he wants to fight the Klitschos, not someone who was beaten clearly by a weigh-jumping Jones, Jr. eons ago. Next year is the only year for it to happen.

Fights we no longer need to see

Rafael Marquez (38-5-0) vs Israel Vasquez (44-4-0) IV
The trilogy has told us everything we need to know about these two great warriors: heart, skills, power, and determination. No drama and violence can top the three epic, gritty fights Marquez and Vasquez have showed us before. If ever, the talked about plan of a 4th fight could only put their careers and health in jeopardy. The damage they have taken in their last three tussles is enough for them to retire while they are still in good health. They can have an easy payday and fight anyone else, but not each other. They can do these and no one would raise an eyebrow. They deserve it.

Bernard Hopkins (50-5-1) vs Roy Jones, Jr (54-6-0)
Hopefully, the knockout loss of Roy Jones, Jr. to Danny Green at the end of 2009 put an end to this absurd planned rematch. Jones, Jr. should have closed his boxing career in 2005 right after his last knockout loss against Antonio Tarver. Instead, he went on and gathered meaningless victories until he was humiliated for 11 straight rounds by Joe Calzaghe and reminded those of us who forgot that he is no longer a relevant fighter these days. On the other hand, Hopkins, whose his age suggests he should be retiring, is still an elite warrior and should set his eyes against meaningful fights rather than cash in on the skeleton of his tormentor.

Edwin Valero (26-0-0) vs any other bum
The fight with WBC lightweight champ Antonio De Marco (23-1-1) is a good start for the Inca Warrior to prove his power is not just effective against cab drivers and jaywalkers. The world has waited so long for the son of Fischer to showcase his exciting style of play, and any fight with non-contenders and legit bums should be immediately canned off.

Floyd Mayweather, Jr. (45-0-0) vs Matthew Hatton (37-4-2)
Mayweather, a man whose talent and technical brilliance are comparable to Pernell Whitaker, but whose hunger to pursue challenges seemed to have left him when he went up to the welterweight division, should really be criticized if this fight happens. Fighting against Hatton, whose record still positively masks his lack of talent and skills in the ring, Mayweather’s winning streak has no chance to be broken. Not an ounce I am afraid. There is no way to justify this fight, other than this can give the Pretty Boy an easy payday, which he supposedly did against Juan Manuel Marquez in his last fight.

[BroadwayBomber55]

A tease? Pacquiao, Mayweather agree to mediator
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=4794912

[Rui]

Mediation yields no result.

Fight's off.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Mediation yields no result.

Fight's off.

Right now, I just want to talk about the Super Six Middleweight Boxing Classic instead of this Pacquiao-Mayweather mess.

Group stage 2

* March 06, 2010, in Rancho Mirage, California, United States:

Andre Dirrell vs. Arthur Abraham

* April 17, 2010, in Denmark:

Mikkel Kessler vs. Carl Froch for WBC Super Middleweight Championship

* April 17, 2010 in United States:

Jermain Taylor vs. Andre Ward for WBA Super Middleweight Championship

Who you got Rui? I got Abraham, Kessler and Ward.

[Rui]

I got Dirrell, Kessler, and Ward.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Confirmed by Rui and Manny Pacquiao's promoter, Top Rank's Bob Arum: "The Fight is Off"

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...=ESPNHeadlines

"Manny accepted what was on the table and Mayweather rejected it," Arum said. "Haymon and Schaefer tired to convince Floyd all [Tuesday night] and [Wednesday] and he wouldn't agree to it. He didn't want the fight. He never wanted the fight. I always knew the fight wouldn't happen."

[PlsDontTearDownY.S.]

I still think somehow this fight will happen. Too much money. But if it doesn't happen, great job a$$holes. Forget about just shooting it, boxing will have blown its foot clean off.

[RhodyYanksFan]

So they just lost $30-$40 million each over petty crap? Way to go geniuses.

[Brick Tamland]

I don't see why Arum is blaming Floyd for this - isn't it on Pacquiao for balking at Olympic and then NFL-style testing in the first place?

[Vin]

[Rui]

Oh, a new excuse emerges from Pacquiao fans on why he lost to Morales?

First it was Pacquiao claiming to be distracted by promotional issues, then it was Team Pacquiao suggesting that he would've won had he used Reyes gloves instead of Winning, and now it's because Pacquiao was weakened by blood tests.



This is just too rich.

[Vin]

Oh, a new excuse emerges from Pacquiao fans on why he lost to Morales?

First it was Pacquiao claiming to be distracted by promotional issues, then it was Team Pacquiao suggesting that he would've won had he used Reyes gloves instead of Winning, and now it's because Pacquiao was weakened by blood tests.



This is just too rich.

Did you see on the video how he basically starves and dehydrates himself to make weight...And in 2005 they screwed up and took blood twice from him. Don't know why people think he's on hgh.

Actually I didn't know he lost to Morales I wasn't even paying attention to whether he won or lost. The point of the video is to show that there is a reason for Mayweather's camp to demand blood test before the fight. De la Hoya knows Manny's aversion to this, and you bought his propaganda. That if you don't take a blood test before the fight or the the way they want you to then you're a juicer.

And since you cannot hide steroids in your blood what's wrong with having the test a day before and after the fight.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Even when the fight is officially dead, Floyd Mayweather Jr. still wants to fight Manny Pacquiao
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=4806180

[Rui]

Did you see on the video how he basically starves and dehydrates himself to make weight...And in 2005 they screwed up and took blood twice from him. Don't know why people think he's on hgh.

Actually I didn't know he lost to Morales I wasn't even paying attention to whether he won or lost. The point of the video is to show that there is a reason for Mayweather's camp to demand blood test before the fight. De la Hoya knows Manny's aversion to this, and you bought his propaganda. That if you don't take a blood test before the fight or the the way they want you to then you're a juicer.

Every boxer outside of the heavyweight division has to starve and dehydrate themselves to make weight. This is nothing new.

Don't know why people think he's on HGH? Because he is the only boxer in the 150 year history of the sport to move up as many divisions as he has and watch his punching power INCREASE. And the only opportunity he had to clear up his name in the form of random blood tests, Pacquiao refused.

Mayweather has publicly stated that he's willing to give Pacquiao a 14-24 day window in which once there's about 2 weeks left before the fight, neither Mayweather nor Pacquiao can be tested randomly, so there goes that Pacquiao argument.

And since you cannot hide steroids in your blood what's wrong with having the test a day before and after the fight.

Because anyone with a brain could avoid a positive drug test by cycling on and off whatever PEDs they're on if they know when the test is.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Geez Rui, Vin,

Can you two accept my take on Manny Pacquiao being the two Armstrongs in boxing?

On one side Manny is Henry Armstrong of this era: a fighter so good, the weight class doesn't matter.

The other is Lance Armstrong: an athlete who is successful at their own sport and has passed every test, but still under suspicion of using PEDs by the media, fellow peers and fans who say that athlete is dirty.

[Rui]

Except Lance Armstrong agreed to take the strictest tests possible; Pacquiao won't even agree to take a few blood tests.

[Vin]

The idea was that if you make a baseless accusation, the onus is on you to prove guilt, otherwise you're just being an ass. In the video, pac has a (maybe irrational) known fear of blood being drawn before (not after) the fight. He agreed to follow institutional rules (none had been petitioned...), but refuses to be singled out due to that aversion and maybe ego. I think that's a reasonable response.

The way odlh and pbf allege the drug use is Glen Beck style. That is, noncommittal enough to not really be a direct accusation, but with a bully pulpit, obvious enough to be damaging in the court of public opinion. That technique is what makes glennbeckmurderedandrapedagirlin1990.com ridiculously funny.

Congratulations! You just bought a whopper the size of a triple whopper at Burger King.

[Rui]

No, the reasonable response by Pacquiao would be to answer all his critics by actually taking the blood tests and giving boxing fans the biggest fight in the sport's history.

Ok, so you're trying to tell me that Pacquiao rejected $40 million because he doesn't want to be singled out and that he has an ego? Every single boxer who I've read about claim that Pacquiao's insane for walking away from such a payday to keep his pride intact.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Except Lance Armstrong agreed to take the strictest tests possible; Pacquiao won't even agree to take a few blood tests.

And what's Manny's excuse? He's afraid of needles.

I mean, if you can take a blood test to get a Nevada boxing license, why not take a blood test for PEDs?

The Pacman is trying to fool Pretty Boy Floyd with his own tactics.

[Rui]

Pacquiao vs. Clottey being reported by Top Rank.

That would be an awesome fight.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Pacquiao vs. Clottey being reported by Top Rank.

That would be an awesome fight.

I say the same thing and also a tougher fight for Manny.

Joshua Clottey is a heavy handed, accurate puncher with lethal combinations. He defeated Zab Judah via technical decision, pushed Antonio Margarito until losing via unanimous decision and many thought, the Ghanian beat Miguel Cotto.

[Brick Tamland]

The idea was that if you make a baseless accusation, the onus is on you to prove guilt, otherwise you're just being an ass. In the video, pac has a (maybe irrational) known fear of blood being drawn before (not after) the fight. He agreed to follow institutional rules (none had been petitioned...), but refuses to be singled out due to that aversion and maybe ego. I think that's a reasonable response.

Interesting video. I guess the request for this kind of testing is not typical and a little extreme but how does Pacquiao not nut up and agree to allow it just this one time since both fighters would be subject to the same requirements?

And if it's true that Mayweather will allow a 2 week window free of random testing before the fight I don't see how you can blame anyone but Arum and Pacquiao for the hold up.

I think the fight still gets done. So much money involved.

[PlsDontTearDownY.S.]

I don't see why Arum is blaming Floyd for this - isn't it on Pacquiao for balking at Olympic and then NFL-style testing in the first place?

Everything was going smoothly until the Mayweather camp decided to kill the (brilliant) Cowboys stadium location idea in favor of Vegas and try to force Pac to submit to this olympic style drug testing for their own edification. Correct me if I'm wrong, but going beyond the standard drug testing was PBF's idea, no? Manny could have been the "bigger man" and agreed to it, but I put most of the blame for this fiasco on PBF. They are the ones who came out of left field. As far as I can tell, there was no public or institutional outcry for Manny to submit to any kind of drug testing beyond what is already in place.

Pac has never had a problem making fights happen before. He doesn't duck potentially hazardous fights like PBF has.

[Rui]

Everything was going smoothly until the Mayweather camp decided to kill the (brilliant) Cowboys stadium location idea in favor of Vegas and try to force Pac to submit to this olympic style drug testing for their own edification. Correct me if I'm wrong, but going beyond the standard drug testing was PBF's idea, no? Manny could have been the "bigger man" and agreed to it, but I put most of the blame for this fiasco on PBF. They are the ones who came out of left field. As far as I can tell, there was no public or institutional outcry for Manny to submit to any kind of drug testing beyond what is already in place.

Pac has never had a problem making fights happen before. He doesn't duck potentially hazardous fights like PBF has.

A urine test is only good if an athlete is dumb enough to use performance enhancers that are "out of fashion." Athletes being paid tens of millions of dollars (or $40 million for a night's work) don't buy bargain basement steroids that guys were shooting a decade ago.

When all was said and done, Manny Pacquiao turned down a $40 million payday because, according to him, he thought drawing blood two weeks before a fight might make him feel weak.

If that's true, then Manny Pacquiao's wife should kill him. Simple as that. Manny is not a frail, hemophilliac librarian. The guy bleeds for a living.

It might be the worst excuse I've ever heard from a fighter in my entire life. The only logical explanation is that Pacquiao's got something to hide.

[PlsDontTearDownY.S.]

It might be the worst excuse I've ever heard from a fighter in my entire life. The only logical explanation is that Pacquiao's got something to hide.

Pacquiao should not have to jump when it's Mayweather telling him to. What authority does he have? If it was the Nevada Athletic Commission demanding expanded testing then I'd agree with you.

But Pac should have told PBF to go f himself instead of bringing the weak hemophilia excuse. Pacquiao is by far the more popular fighter. He's a bigger draw and a more entertaining watch. A people's fighter. He has no reason whatsoever to acquiesce to Mayweather's demands. Pac is too big of a fighter to have his reputation irreparably damaged (like PBF's reputation for ducking tough fights) by a negotiating technicality.

Pacquiao has made tough fights happen in the past and will continue to do so. Perception is that Mayweather has not. He has to make this fight happen if he cares about his legacy. I doubt he really does though, as that ridiculous "retirement" of his showed. When PBF starts to run low on cash I'll bet anything he will come back to the table without these drug testing demands. Unless he thinks he can make a living adequate enough to support his lifestyle by fighting guys like Gatti, Judah, Baldomir and others.

[Sascha]

No, the reasonable response by Pacquiao would be to answer all his critics by actually taking the blood tests and giving boxing fans the biggest fight in the sport's history.

Instead he's just tarnishing his own legacy. That effing sucks and will (as least as far as I'm concerned) definitely take away from Manny's popularity. Being weakened by the amount of blood taken from him with a needle isn't anything they couldn't make up for by agreeing to have the fight at a +1lbs. catchweight allowing for a little less dehydration...

[Rui]

Pacquiao should not have to jump when it's Mayweather telling him to. What authority does he have? If it was the Nevada Athletic Commission demanding expanded testing then I'd agree with you.

So Pacquiao walked away from $40 million because he doesn't want to take orders from Mayweather? That's just as bad as the "feeling weak from the blood loss" excuse.

You don't like it, Manny? How about you bite the bullet, take the blood tests, kick Floyd's ass, make your $40 million, and give boxing fans the fight that they want to see? I don't see anything wrong with Floyd's demands. Cheating in boxing isn't like corking a bat in baseball or taking PEDs in track and field. The possible repercussions are so much worse. When it all boils down, Floyd is in an extremely dangerous profession. And when there's even a suspicion that his job could even be more deadly, then I don't blame him for taking all the necessary precautions to ensure that he's fighting on an even playing field.

Pacquiao is by far the more popular fighter. He's a bigger draw and a more entertaining watch. A people's fighter. He has no reason whatsoever to acquiesce to Mayweather's demands. Pac is too big of a fighter to have his reputation irreparably damaged (like PBF's reputation for ducking tough fights) by a negotiating technicality.

That's just untrue. Mayweather is just as big of a draw as Pacquiao. We can go in circles with this argument, but I don't see how you can make the claim that Pacquiao is by far the more popular fighter when in each of their fights with De La Hoya, Hatton, and Marquez, Mayweather attracted more PPV buys. They both need each other.

And if you think Pacquiao's reputation isn't tarnished by this, then I don't know what to say.

Don't think powerful people don't notice Pacquiao's decision, particularly the guys who cut the checks at HBO. Pacquiao/Mayweather is one of the biggest money fights in history. HBO would make a fortune off that. Pacquaio vs. Foreman/Clottey/Malignaggi is not.

And don't think those poor, destitute fans in the Phillipines who wait in line for handouts won't notice, either. Up until now, he's the local hero who will fight anyone and has made a fortune doing so. But how many of them will be able to relate to Pacquaio if he turns down tens of millions of dollars simply because he doesn't want to get a random blood test? How many fans of his will be able to get behind that logic?

In a business that is totally based on escaping poverty, proving you are the best, and making as much money as you possibly can, Pacquaio is burning a lot of bridges and raising many eyebrows with his choices here.

[PlsDontTearDownY.S.]

So Pacquiao walked away from $40 million because he doesn't want to take orders from Mayweather? That's just as bad as the "feeling weak from the blood loss" excuse.

You don't like it, Manny? How about you bite the bullet, take the blood tests, kick Floyd's ass, make your $40 million, and give boxing fans the fight that they want to see? I don't see anything wrong with Floyd's demands. Cheating in boxing isn't like corking a bat in baseball or taking PEDs in track and field. The possible repercussions are so much worse. When it all boils down, Floyd is in an extremely dangerous profession. And when there's even a suspicion that his job could even be more deadly, then I don't blame him for taking all the necessary precautions to ensure that he's fighting on an even playing field.

That's just untrue. Mayweather is just as big of a draw as Pacquiao. We can go in circles with this argument, but I don't see how you can make the claim that Pacquiao is by far the more popular fighter when in each of their fights with De La Hoya, Hatton, and Marquez, Mayweather attracted more PPV buys. They both need each other.

And if you think Pacquiao's reputation isn't tarnished by this, then I don't know what to say.

Don't think powerful people don't notice Pacquiao's decision, particularly the guys who cut the checks at HBO. Pacquiao/Mayweather is one of the biggest money fights in history. HBO would make a fortune off that. Pacquaio vs. Foreman/Clottey/Malignaggi is not.

And don't think those poor, destitute fans in the Phillipines who wait in line for handouts won't notice, either. Up until now, he's the local hero who will fight anyone and has made a fortune doing so. But how many of them will be able to relate to Pacquaio if he turns down tens of millions of dollars simply because he doesn't want to get a random blood test? How many fans of his will be able to get behind that logic?

In a business that is totally based on escaping poverty, proving you are the best, and making as much money as you possibly can, Pacquaio is burning a lot of bridges and raising many eyebrows with his choices here.

There's no need to go in circles about who is more popular. Floyd couldn't even sell out the arena he fought Marquez in... there were thousands of empty seats. (13,116 seats sold out of 17,157 total in the MGM Grand Garden) Pacquiao sold out that same arena for the Cotto fight. So a guy who can't even sell out an arena is as big a fighter as Pacquiao? Come on now. Good luck scoring a seat for a Pacquiao fight in Vegas. Maybe if Floyd hadn't gone through with that BS retirement after the ODLH fight, he'd be on Pacquiao's level.

And do you honestly think Pac's fans in the Philipines, of all places, care that he didn't want to bend over for PBF? Those people worship this guy. Attempted media molding by a guy who still doesn't have the total respect of the casual fight fan (true boxing people don't make fighters rich, they need the casual fan to drop down that $59.99) won't change their opinion of him. I don't think you understand how popular Pac really is over there.

You bring up potential fights for Pac. That's fine, but Pacquiao doesn't need a megafight like PBF does. His legacy is stronger than PBF's. He doesn't piss away money like "Money Mayweather" brags about doing. So who is Mayweather going to make a fortune fighting? Does he really want to fight Mosley, a guy he has consistently ducked in the past? Is he going to retire again and work on his record label? PBF needs this more than Pacquiao and the proof will be when he eventually comes back to the bargaining table.

Mayweather's obstinance will recede and he will agree to a drug testing compromise, like he should have already done. PBF wants everything his way, but he will have to come to the conclusion that he needs to bargain in good faith, and try to make the fight happen or forever be known as a guy who was a supremely skilled boxer but that never made the tough fights.

I'll finish with a quote from this column, which sums up my thoughts on this matter:

"But history shows us one fighter who's dodged a handful of difficult fights and another who's built a legacy on taking the toughest opponents available in any weight class within driving distance."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...tion=si_latest

[Rui]

There's no need to go in circles about who is more popular. Floyd couldn't even sell out the arena he fought Marquez in... there were thousands of empty seats. (13,116 seats sold out of 17,157 total in the MGM Grand Garden) Pacquiao sold out that same arena for the Cotto fight. So a guy who can't even sell out an arena is as big a fighter as Pacquiao? Come on now. Good luck scoring a seat for a Pacquiao fight in Vegas. Maybe if Floyd hadn't gone through with that BS retirement after the ODLH fight, he'd be on Pacquiao's level.

I'm not the one who claimed that Pacquiao was by far the more popular fighter. Ok, Pacquiao sold out the arena against Cotto. If Mayweather fought Cotto in the same place, the arena would've sold out as well.

Comparing the popularity of two fighters by how well they sold out an arena against two different opponents isn't exactly the most reliable indicator of how popular a fighter is, especially when Cotto was a much bigger name than Marquez. And to compound that, when comparing the PPV buys of common opponents (De La Hoya, Hatton, and Marquez), Mayweather outdid Pacquiao by a good margin.

And do you honestly think Pac's fans in the Philipines, of all places, care that he didn't want to bend over for PBF? Those people worship this guy. Attempted media molding by a guy who still doesn't have the total respect of the casual fight fan (true boxing people don't make fighters rich, they need the casual fan to drop down that $59.99) won't change their opinion of him. I don't think you understand how popular Pac really is over there.

I'm well aware of how popular Pacquiao is in the Philippines and it would be naive to think that no one from the country is questioning Pacquiao's decision-making in rejecting $40 million over a random bloodtest. Pacquiao is popular, but not popular enough to become immune to criticism.

Mayweather might not have the respect of the casual fight fan, but he has the attention of the casual fight fan, unless you think that 2.5 million PPV buys against De La Hoya, 950,000 PPV buys against Hatton, and 1 million PPV buys against Marquez says otherwise?

You bring up potential fights for Pac. That's fine, but Pacquiao doesn't need a megafight like PBF does. His legacy is stronger than PBF's. He doesn't piss away money like "Money Mayweather" brags about doing. So who is Mayweather going to make a fortune fighting? Does he really want to fight Mosley, a guy he has consistently ducked in the past? Is he going to retire again and work on his record label? PBF needs this more than Pacquiao and the proof will be when he eventually comes back to the bargaining table.

Pacquiao's legacy isn't stronger than Mayweather's, especially in light of the steroid allegations and Pacquiao's refusal for stricter testing. They're basically neck and neck in terms of legacy. Don't underrate Mayweather's run at junior lightweight. He's considered to be the greatest junior lightweight in history by many.

And where did you get the idea that Mayweather was avoiding Mosley? If anything, it's the other way around. Mayweather offered Mosley a fight following Mosley's win over Vargas in their rematch and Mosley shot it down instantly claiming that he wanted to spend more time with his family. I wouldn't be surprised to see Mayweather fight the winner of Mosley/Berto because it's the biggest match that could be made in the division outside of Mayweather/Pacquiao.

Mayweather's obstinance will recede and he will agree to a drug testing compromise, like he should have already done. PBF wants everything his way, but he will have to come to the conclusion that he needs to bargain in good faith, and try to make the fight happen or forever be known as a guy who was a supremely skilled boxer but that never made the tough fights.

Erm... what? Mayweather already made some concessions. Mayweather let Pacquiao essentially pick the date of the fight that catered to his political schedule due to the elections in the Philippines. Mayweather originally wanted Olympic testing with no cutoff date and then he compromised to just random blood testing with a cutoff date of 14 days. Pacquiao's response? Screw this, no fight.

I'll finish with a quote from this column, which sums up my thoughts on this matter:

"But history shows us one fighter who's dodged a handful of difficult fights and another who's built a legacy on taking the toughest opponents available in any weight class within driving distance."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...tion=si_latest

An article with some flaws. I'll just address one paragraph here:

Over the past decade, Mayweather has been able to sidestep opponents he's been loath to face. He turned down a then-career-high $8 million purse to fight Margarito in 2006 during his divorce with Top Rank, citing a hand injury. He's repeatedly spurned public and private overtures from Mosley, the quicksilver welterweight whose dubious value as a pay-per-view draw simply don't make sense for Mayweather from a risk-reward perspective. ("If I beat Mosley, they'll say he's over the hill," Mayweather said. "He's got nothing to lose.") He wasn't anxious for a rematch with De La Hoya after their 2007 fight was the most-watched pay-per-view event in history. Floyd even retired from boxing after stopping Hatton later that year, forcing the queue of challengers to disperse and seek other challenges.

Floyd turned down a career high $8 million purse to fight Margarito for an even bigger purse to fight the lineal welterweight champion in Baldomir. Is it considered a duck if Mayweather fought an opponent for more money as well as the ever coveted lineal championship?

As I said before, Floyd offered Mosley a fight in 2006 and Mosley rejected it. Then Floyd's popularity soared with wins over De La Hoya and Hatton and Mosley wanted to cash in against Floyd; from Floyd's perspective, Mosley didn't give him a shot back in 2006 so why should he give a shot to Mosley now?

A fight with Tszyu could've been made, however Tszyu had a history of injuries that prevented the fight from happening.

[PlsDontTearDownY.S.]

Pacquao IS the more popular fighter right now. It wouldn't be that way if PBF didn't pull that retirement nonsense. And since when is Miguel Cotto a bigger draw than a native, popular Mexican fighter in Las Vegas? Cotto's fought twice in his entire career out west. Pacquiao could fight you or I anywhere in the country right now and sell out the joint, the hype over him and his crushing recent victories is so profound.

when comparing the PPV buys of common opponents (De La Hoya, Hatton, and Marquez), Mayweather outdid Pacquiao by a good margin.

ODLH made that fight as big as it was, with an assist from PBF. ODLH was a one man show until his decline. Additionally, the ODLH fight and the Hatton fight were pre-retirement, when PBF was at his peak popularity. 4000 empty seats in the MGM Grand for the Marquez fight tell you all you need to know about PBF's popularity in the here and now. In addition, Pacquiao-Cotto also did approximately 200,000 more PPV buys than Marquez - PBF.

I'm well aware of how popular Pacquiao is in the Philippines and it would be naive to think that no one from the country is questioning Pacquiao's decision-making in rejecting $40 million over a random bloodtest. Pacquiao is popular, but not popular enough to become immune to criticism.

It's called circling the wagons. You're crazy if you think Filipinos are going to start bailing out on their guy because of some negotiation minutae. I think more of them are questioning PBF's coming out of left field with his unilateral insistence on extraordinary drug testing.

Mayweather might not have the respect of the casual fight fan, but he has the attention of the casual fight fan, unless you think that 2.5 million PPV buys against De La Hoya, 950,000 PPV buys against Hatton, and 1 million PPV buys against Marquez says otherwise?

Again, pre retirement. As far as the Marquez-PBF vs PAc=Cotto numbers, Pac-Cotto won by abotu 200,000 buys.

Pacquiao's legacy isn't stronger than Mayweather's, especially in light of the steroid allegations and Pacquiao's refusal for stricter testing. They're basically neck and neck in terms of legacy. Don't underrate Mayweather's run at junior lightweight. He's considered to be the greatest junior lightweight in history by many.

The only people to whom Pacquiao's legacy is tarnished are Pacquiao haters and Mayweather fans. It was a nice effort by Mayweather to try and ruin Pac's legacy without even stepping in the ring. Mayweather's been considered someone who ducks and dodges for years. You can try and explain it away (as you do further on down the post) but this is the perception.

Erm... what? Mayweather already made some concessions. Mayweather let Pacquiao essentially pick the date of the fight that catered to his political schedule due to the elections in the Philippines. Mayweather originally wanted Olympic testing with no cutoff date and then he compromised to just random blood testing with a cutoff date of 14 days. Pacquiao's response? Screw this, no fight.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all that aside, everything was agree upon until PBF started throwing monkey wrenches around. The date, the arena, all that. PBF would love everybody to forget this.

[Rui]

Pacquao IS the more popular fighter right now. It wouldn't be that way if PBF didn't pull that retirement nonsense. And since when is Miguel Cotto a bigger draw than a native, popular Mexican fighter in Las Vegas? Cotto's fought twice in his entire career out west. Pacquiao could fight you or I anywhere in the country right now and sell out the joint, the hype over him and his crushing recent victories is so profound.

Where is your evidence that Pacquiao is more popular than Floyd? Again, the "Pacquiao sold more tickets fighting Cotto than Mayweather did fighting Marquez" is a pretty bad justification. It has no relevance whatsoever because you're taking two separate opponents and matching them up. And yes, Cotto was the bigger draw than Marquez. We can't compare their common opponents, but we can take a look at their fight purses or we can compare PPV buys because Cotto/Margarito attracted more PPV buys than Pacquiao/Marquez II. And Cotto/Mosley and Cotto/Judah also attracted more PPV buys than Barrera/Marquez and Marquez/Casamayor.

ODLH made that fight as big as it was, with an assist from PBF. ODLH was a one man show until his decline. Additionally, the ODLH fight and the Hatton fight were pre-retirement, when PBF was at his peak popularity. 4000 empty seats in the MGM Grand for the Marquez fight tell you all you need to know about PBF's popularity in the here and now. In addition, Pacquiao-Cotto also did approximately 200,000 more PPV buys than Marquez - PBF.

Oh, ok. So De La Hoya by himself made the fight as big as it was when he was facing Mayweather. But De La Hoya and Pacquiao both contributed to their PPV buys? Come on dude, just read that over and tell me it doesn't sound ridiculous. And Mayweather's popularity post-retirement must not have been too bad because he managed to more than double Pacquiao's PPV buys against the same opponent, Marquez. Let me guess, that was before Pacquiao was "popular"?

And as stated before, Pacquiao/Cotto did more PPV buys because Cotto was a more well-known fighter than Marquez. It's unfair to say Pacquiao is more popular than Floyd because Pacquiao sold more fighting Cotto than Floyd did fighting Marquez. If you want to use that logic, Mayweather/Marquez had more PPV buys than De La Hoya/Vargas. I guess that makes Mayweather more popular than De La Hoya.

It's called circling the wagons. You're crazy if you think Filipinos are going to start bailing out on their guy because of some negotiation minutae. I think more of them are questioning PBF's coming out of left field with his unilateral insistence on extraordinary drug testing.

I never said that they were going to bail on Pacquiao. I said that they were going to question his decision making, which they should unless they're wearing some major tinted glasses. How many of them do you think would agree to give random blood tests and fight for $40 million if they were in the same position that Pacquiao was in? And Mayweather never came out of left field with these drug demands -- they were there from the beginning and Mayweather has actually made some concessions.

The only people to whom Pacquiao's legacy is tarnished are Pacquiao haters and Mayweather fans. It was a nice effort by Mayweather to try and ruin Pac's legacy without even stepping in the ring. Mayweather's been considered someone who ducks and dodges for years. You can try and explain it away (as you do further on down the post) but this is the perception.

Ok, so why don't we ignore the perception and get down to stuff that matters, like you know... facts?

Floyd Mayweather: At junior lightweight, he was probably the best there ever was. He proved that he was also the best lightweight in the world as well. Once he reached junior welterweight and welterweight, he started to avoid some of the top contenders, though he still faced some decent fighters.

Manny Pacquiao: He was limited at flyweight, however at junior featherweight, featherweight, and junior lightweight, and junior welterweight he was clearly the best in the division. However as he started moving up in weight, people in boxing (and not just the Mayweathers) started to question him. He blew his chance to silence all the critics as well as a chance to earn $40 million because he felt he would be weakened by blood loss/he didn't want to give in to Floyd's demands.

The only people who don't think Pacquiao's legacy is at least somewhat tarnished by his refusal to take the blood tests must be members of the Pacquiao fan club or must seriously hate Floyd.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all that aside, everything was agree upon until PBF started throwing monkey wrenches around. The date, the arena, all that. PBF would love everybody to forget this.

Nothing was agreed on. It's not like everyone was ready to sign the contracts and then Floyd all of a sudden says "But wait, oh yeah I want random blood testing, too!"

From the beginning, random blood testing was included in Team Mayweather's demands.

[trapper700]

i could see pacquiao losing to clottey. He's beaten tough fighters like judah & corrales and looked good even in losses to Cotto and Margarito. And i'm pretty sure he's never been knocked out in a fight.

[BroadwayBomber55]

i could see pacquiao losing to clottey. He's beaten tough fighters like judah & corrales and looked good even in losses to Cotto and Margarito. And i'm pretty sure he's never been knocked out in a fight.

It's a tough fight for Manny Pacquiao when the Pacman takes on Joshua Clottey.

Clottey will have a three-inch reach advantage over Manny (70" to 67") and he's a fighter who has heavy hands, can hit with accuracy to go along with power, has the handspeed to match Manny and can stalk you at every inch of the ring.

And Clottey hasn't been stopped.

Freddie Roach said it best when he sees an exciting Clottey-Pacquiao matchup.
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/01...n-clottey-bout

[BroadwayBomber55]

Manny Pacquiao vs. Joshua Clottey fight in...
Dallas Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, TX.
http://www.fightnews.com/?p=34794

Hmmm, despite the Pacman being the megadraw in boxing right now, I don't know if this fight will reach 40,000. I say 20,000 at best.

[PlsDontTearDownY.S.]

Rui, as far as the minutae of the negotiations you do make some good points, and I don't totally absolve Pac of blame in this. But can you honestly say that Floyd played this the right way? That this is all on Pac? The date was agreed on, it was announced, then it all went to crap basically because of an epic matchup of pride vs principle. In the end, they really ended up f'n themselves up more than anything else.

Regardless of who should be affixed blame, (that's an exhausting argument) I still say Pacquiao will be better off. He's beaten hall of fame fighters multiple times. He's a hero in his own nation. He's currently the pound for pound king. For all his boxing acumen, the only legend that PBF has beaten is an arguably over the hill ODLH and did not overwhelm in the process. Gatti, Baldomir, Judah, Hatton, those are the guys that Floyd thinks beating means he's this all time great? Who hasn't beaten Judah? Baldomir? eh...and Gatti was never going to be confused with the boxing greats. PBF still has more to prove than Pac and accusing him of taking roids will not change this.

[Rui]

Here, I want your opinion on the following scenario.

You're in Floyd Mayweather's position. You're in a sport that has had numerous people die in the ring within the past few years and even more individuals develop debilitating conditions later on in their lives as a result of their fights. You have a chance to earn up to $40 million against Manny Pacquiao in the most lucrative fight in boxing history, but above all else you value your safety because if anything were to happen to you, your family would be placed in a really difficult position.

You're all set to take a fight with Pacquiao, but you also overhear rumors from your camp as well as other boxers that he may be on PEDs. In order to ensure an even playing field, you ask for random blood testing, and you are willing undergo any tests to ensure that there will be no PED use leading up to the fight. Unfortunately, Pacquiao completely dismisses this idea and rejects $40 million because either:

1.) He doesn't want to take orders from another opponent
2.) He thinks that drawing blood 2 weeks before a fight will make him "weak"

What would you do in Floyd's position? Just take the fight and pray that Pacquiao isn't on PEDs? What if he is and the only reason why he defeated you was because of his PED use?

If I was Floyd, I would be pressing for random blood testing as well. And the more that Pacquiao dismisses the idea, the more I'd push for the testing because it raises even more suspicion. On the contrary, if I were in Pacquiao's position and assuming I was clean, for $40 million? Hell yeah I'd take the random blood tests. If Floyd wants to boss me around before the fight, I'll just beat his ass during the fight.

Golden Boy has recently announced that Pacquiao will not face any Golden Boy fighters unless there is random blood testing. This means no Mosley, no Mayweather. This will be a stain on Pacquiao's legacy; when boxing fans ask why Pacquiao isn't facing Mosley or Floyd, the response will be "because Pacquiao doesn't want to take stricter drug testing".

Floyd's achievements aren't that bad, especially if you consider that he basically cleaned out 130 at a time when it had some very good fighters. Plus he beat a prime Castillo twice, dominated a prime and undefeated Hatton, dominated a prime and undefeated Corrales, soundly defeated a slightly passed it De La Hoya. Then you look at his secondary wins: Chavez, Manfredy, Judah, Hernandez. Not too shabby.

Pacquiao dominated a prime Barrera, lost to a past it Morales, and then defeated Morales twice after Morales got dominated by Raheem. I thought he beat Marquez the first time but lost the second time. But he holds great wins over Hatton and Cotto.

[BroadwayBomber55]

I'm fighting too: Floyd Mayweather also fighting on March 13
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...OXINGHeadlines

Well, it's a duel for PPV buys. Tough decision for Ross Greenburg and HBO.

I say HBO does Pacquiao's event, even though Top Rank has their own PPV program.

[Blokee]

This is my PoV on Manny v Money and Blood Testing.

If Manny is on drugs then it'll be part of a routine and a pre-planned timetable. This is why Money wants random blood testing according to him. However if Manny is on drugs the chances of him getting the drugs out of his system by 24 days before the fight and by after the fight are minimal. PEDs take quite a long time to leave the system so if Manny was on drugs the tests 24 days before and after the fight would've showed them up. So even if you believe he was on drugs - breaking up the routine and timetable to ensure he is clean 24 days before and on fight night will of made the whole process pretty much pointless.

The difference between 14 days and 24 is in all honesty minimal in terms of PEDs however if Manny does genuinely feel weaker after having blood taken for 2-3 days then the difference is considerable.

If Money wanted the fight it'd be on. Money needs the fight far more than Manny. Far more. Money has never fought a top notch opponant at his weight. Do you think Money has any desire to fight Shane Mosley, Paul Williams et al? No he fights smaller guys or guys not in his class and the moment a smaller guy becomes legit dangerous he whines like a little baby about the smaller guy possibly being on drugs because he's too damned good.

Money is too scared of losing his 0 and even if Manny had agreed to his bizarre desperate drug testing (that has never been asked for in any other fight in history) then I'd bet my bottom dollar that Money would've pulled out over something else.

[PlsDontTearDownY.S.]

Here, I want your opinion on the following scenario.

You're in Floyd Mayweather's position. You're in a sport that has had numerous people die in the ring within the past few years and even more individuals develop debilitating conditions later on in their lives as a result of their fights. You have a chance to earn up to $40 million against Manny Pacquiao in the most lucrative fight in boxing history, but above all else you value your safety because if anything were to happen to you, your family would be placed in a really difficult position.

You're all set to take a fight with Pacquiao, but you also overhear rumors from your camp as well as other boxers that he may be on PEDs. In order to ensure an even playing field, you ask for random blood testing, and you are willing undergo any tests to ensure that there will be no PED use leading up to the fight. Unfortunately, Pacquiao completely dismisses this idea and rejects $40 million because either:

1.) He doesn't want to take orders from another opponent
2.) He thinks that drawing blood 2 weeks before a fight will make him "weak"

What would you do in Floyd's position? Just take the fight and pray that Pacquiao isn't on PEDs? What if he is and the only reason why he defeated you was because of his PED use?

If I was Floyd, I would be pressing for random blood testing as well. And the more that Pacquiao dismisses the idea, the more I'd push for the testing because it raises even more suspicion. On the contrary, if I were in Pacquiao's position and assuming I was clean, for $40 million? Hell yeah I'd take the random blood tests. If Floyd wants to boss me around before the fight, I'll just beat his ass during the fight.

If I'm PBF I go and back up all my big talk. (Pac is immeasurably more modest) I make the fight for an even split in Dallas in front of 80,000 people (a great idea that got s**tcanned by team PBF). Mayweather talks the biggest game ever. Nobody can even touch PBF according to PBF. Now in the 11th hour he decides he wants unprecedented drug testing measures. Pac could have been the "bigger man" so to speak and agreed to everything, but remember it was PBF that started tossing the monkeywrenches.

Then you have camp PBF making statements like this:

Ellerbe: " The fans and the sport deserves a fair fight."

Now PBF cares about the fans and the sport? The same sport he turned his back on in his prime and at the peak of his popularity to embarrass himself with the WWE, fail miserably in Dancing with the Stars and "work" on his record label?

And, to address a point you made in a previous post, I've been reading up on this thing plenty and nowhere did I read that comprehensive, random, olympic style blood testing was a PBF demand from the very beginning. What I did see was that Roach offered to agree to blood testing up until 5 days before the fight and that this proposal was rejected.

Golden Boy has recently announced that Pacquiao will not face any Golden Boy fighters unless there is random blood testing. This means no Mosley, no Mayweather. This will be a stain on Pacquiao's legacy; when boxing fans ask why Pacquiao isn't facing Mosley or Floyd, the response will be "because Pacquiao doesn't want to take stricter drug testing".

"According to sources, Mayweather's list of potential opponents includes former junior welterweight titlist Paulie Malignaggi and Golden Boy-promoted former lightweight titlist Nate Campbell, both smaller men than Mayweather, as well as former welterweight titlist Kermit Cintron, who is a similar kind of opponent as Clottey is for Pacquiao. There is also a more remote possibility of Mayweather facing junior welterweight titlist Timothy Bradley Jr., who has ties to Showtime, which may not want to let him walk away for a possible fight on rival HBO PPV."
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...OXINGHeadlines

And we're talking about who Pac is going to fight next? Clottey isn't the second coming of Hagler but at least he's tough as hell and should make for a very entertaining fight. I'm already yawning at the prospect of PBF vs Cintron or Malignaggi.

Floyd's achievements aren't that bad, especially if you consider that he basically cleaned out 130 at a time when it had some very good fighters. Plus he beat a prime Castillo twice, dominated a prime and undefeated Hatton, dominated a prime and undefeated Corrales, soundly defeated a slightly passed it De La Hoya. Then you look at his secondary wins: Chavez, Manfredy, Judah, Hernandez. Not too shabby.

Pacquiao dominated a prime Barrera, lost to a past it Morales, and then defeated Morales twice after Morales got dominated by Raheem. I thought he beat Marquez the first time but lost the second time. But he holds great wins over Hatton and Cotto.

Slightly past it De La Hoya? More like fading fast De La Hoya. Felix Sturm beat ODLH but got robbed. PBF should have lost the first Castillo fight IMO, Corrales was nothing special, Hatton was eh, (Luis Collazo slapped him around and lost a total BS decision) Judah is very beatable. To me, the most compelling wins PBF has were 8 years ago against Luis Castillo. And you know where I stand on the first Castillo fight. You can also throw Corrales in there. He was, at the least, a dangerous fighter.

You can try and explain it away, (as I do the wins of PBF that you presented) but nothing can take from the fact that Pac has beaten Hall of Famers multiple times. He's the more entertaining fighter, the people's fighter. And he has a more impressive resume. I don't think this can be reasonably disputed.

[BroadwayBomber55]

This is my PoV on Manny v Money and Blood Testing.

If Manny is on drugs then it'll be part of a routine and a pre-planned timetable. This is why Money wants random blood testing according to him. However if Manny is on drugs the chances of him getting the drugs out of his system by 24 days before the fight and by after the fight are minimal. PEDs take quite a long time to leave the system so if Manny was on drugs the tests 24 days before and after the fight would've showed them up. So even if you believe he was on drugs - breaking up the routine and timetable to ensure he is clean 24 days before and on fight night will of made the whole process pretty much pointless.

The difference between 14 days and 24 is in all honesty minimal in terms of PEDs however if Manny does genuinely feel weaker after having blood taken for 2-3 days then the difference is considerable.

If Money wanted the fight it'd be on. Money needs the fight far more than Manny. Far more. Money has never fought a top notch opponant at his weight. Do you think Money has any desire to fight Shane Mosley, Paul Williams et al? No he fights smaller guys or guys not in his class and the moment a smaller guy becomes legit dangerous he whines like a little baby about the smaller guy possibly being on drugs because he's too damned good.

Money is too scared of losing his 0 and even if Manny had agreed to his bizarre desperate drug testing (that has never been asked for in any other fight in history) then I'd bet my bottom dollar that Money would've pulled out over something else.

That's true Blokee.

I still think the fight will be on, maybe later in the year. But if it won't happen at all, those two camps are to blame on what boxing could've had.

[BroadwayBomber55]

Jermain Taylor withdraws from Super Six World Boxing Classic Tournament
http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/4818960

I say that Jermain made the right decision. He should hang up the gloves and he should've been in the tournament to begin with.

Jermain used to have one of the best jabs in boxing, but when he joined Emmanuel Steward, that jab was taken away from his arsenal.

I can't wait however to see this fight to take Taylor's place: Allan Green vs. Sakio Bika on Feburary 5th. It should be an exciting fight because a spot in the classic is at stake. I hope Bika wins.

[BroadwayBomber55]

I'll jump in this rift between PlsDontTearDownY.S. and Rui on this whole fiasco/debate, whatever you call it on why the Manny Pacquiao-Floyd Mayweather Jr. Megafight never compromised.

Basically, I blame both of these bozo camps for never having this fight signed, sealed and delivered and give boxing a huge blow.

In Manny's case: With refusing to comply with Mayweather’s request for Olympic style drug testing, Pacquiao creates the perception of guilt. If he has nothing to hide, why not agree to the terms? In one of my posts, I called Manny Pacquiao, the "two Armstrongs of boxing."

One is Henry Armstrong where in any weight class, he's very good.
He has won a linear/alphabet soup organization World title in 7 different weight classes: 112, 122, 126, 130, 135, 140 and 147.

The other is Lance Armstrong: people root for his success, but also have dark clouds of allegations of drug use despite passing all drug tests. And unlike Manny, Lance is willing to undergo all kinds of tests.

In Floyd's case: On the other hand, by making unprecedented demands for vigorous drug testing procedures, Mayweather creates the appearance that he is trying to find a way out of the fight. If Mayweather is so certain of victory, why not trust the regulatory commissions to ensure fair play?

Not only that, Pretty Boy Floyd makes excuses and rants like saying Manny is "one dimensional" and "no diversity" after Manny's fight with Miguel Cotto and say that "I'll beat Manny easily" without even proving it.

As for achievements, sure both PBF and the Pacman could be considered the best pound-for-pound in our generation and they both have key wins, but they also have wins against opponents where critics and fans keep making excuses (i.e. someone fight your own size).

In PBF's case, Mayweather cleaned out 130 and have wins over Jose Luis Castillo, the late Diego Corrales, Arturo Gatti and Oscar De La Hoya, but he also has wins over Ricky Hatton and Juan Manuel Marquez two fighters for example that had to meet at catchweight or move up in weight to face Floyd.

In Manny's case, the Filipino slugger beat future Hall of Famers Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Marquez and Miguel Cotto, but he also had wins over Chatchai Sasakul and Lehlohonolo Ledwaba. But some critics and fans will point out the wins of David Diaz, Oscar Larios and Jorge Solis the wins where it was "easy pickens" for the Pacman.

Not only that, this continues the hatred between arguably, the two best promotions in boxing: Bob Arum's Top Rank Inc. and De La Hoya's Golden Boy Promotions. Let's not forget their war over who had the rights to own Pacquiao. If you remember back in 2006 when Manny signed to both Top Rank and Golden Boy, it was big mess. Through mediation Golden Boy owned a percentage of Manny's future fights. When the steroid controversy happened, Arum saw his opportunity to nullify Golden Boy's share to Manny. Arum will argue that Golden Boy acted against Manny's best interest and voids any contract they have with Manny. Arum knows he can make the fight at a later date, but this time he will own 100% of Manny's contract for future fights. This adds up to a lot of money for than the $40 million for a single fight. The purpose of the lawsuit is not to clear Manny's name, but to nullify Golden Boy's percentage in Manny.

Also, Richard Schaefer has been in his wars with Manny before over his demand of a third fight between Pacquiao and Marquez and his spat over the purse negotiations between Pacquiao and Hatton.

Bob Arum accused Pretty Boy Floyd of ducking after the mediation offer and also had words with Schaefer after the Pacquiao-Marquez II fight.

So, I really ask both Manny and Floyd, this one important question: WHAT THE ................IN' HELL ARE YOU TWO PEOPLE DOING?

Because of their drug testing spat, the two best pound-for-pound fighters in our generation miss out on what could've been the greatest megafight in boxing's history. Those two gone their separate ways and boxing fans will ponder on what could've been.

[Rui]

If I'm PBF I go and back up all my big talk. (Pac is immeasurably more modest) I make the fight for an even split in Dallas in front of 80,000 people (a great idea that got s**tcanned by team PBF). Mayweather talks the biggest game ever. Nobody can even touch PBF according to PBF. Now in the 11th hour he decides he wants unprecedented drug testing measures. Pac could have been the "bigger man" so to speak and agreed to everything, but remember it was PBF that started tossing the monkeywrenches.

I don't think you're looking at this objectively but instead have some sort of vendetta against Floyd. So if you were Floyd, you'd risk fighting an opponent who is potentially cheating? Floyd may talk a big game but that very arrogance will ultimately help Pacquiao's purse through promoting the fight. And no, from the very beginning Mayweather asked for random blood testing. That will be addressed from the link below.

Then you have camp PBF making statements like this:

Ellerbe: " The fans and the sport deserves a fair fight."

Now PBF cares about the fans and the sport? The same sport he turned his back on in his prime and at the peak of his popularity to embarrass himself with the WWE, fail miserably in Dancing with the Stars and "work" on his record label?

What was the point of this other than to take another shot at Floyd? This has nothing to do with the cancellation of the fight. But one thing to keep in mind is that it wasn't Floyd who pulled out of negotiations, it was Pacquiao. Floyd's promoter wasn't the one constantly stating that the fight was dead, it was Arum. It's clear whose team wanted to resurrect negotiations and whose team didn't.

And, to address a point you made in a previous post, I've been reading up on this thing plenty and nowhere did I read that comprehensive, random, olympic style blood testing was a PBF demand from the very beginning. What I did see was that Roach offered to agree to blood testing up until 5 days before the fight and that this proposal was rejected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQs6U8EMakg

Go to 5:40. The exact quote was "Ever since they started negotiating this fight, one of the points that Mayweather wanted from day one... [was] rigorous drug testing..."

And yeah, Roach offered to do blood testing up until 5 days before the fight... but Roach isn't Pacquiao. The offer was never rejected by Mayweather because it never came up in contract negotiations. Floyd wanted a 14 day cutoff and Pacquiao refused, so with that in mind, do you really think Floyd would have rejected Roach's 5 day cutoff?

Slightly past it De La Hoya? More like fading fast De La Hoya. Felix Sturm beat ODLH but got robbed. PBF should have lost the first Castillo fight IMO, Corrales was nothing special, Hatton was eh, (Luis Collazo slapped him around and lost a total BS decision) Judah is very beatable. To me, the most compelling wins PBF has were 8 years ago against Luis Castillo. And you know where I stand on the first Castillo fight. You can also throw Corrales in there. He was, at the least, a dangerous fighter.

You can try and explain it away, (as I do the wins of PBF that you presented) but nothing can take from the fact that Pac has beaten Hall of Famers multiple times. He's the more entertaining fighter, the people's fighter. And he has a more impressive resume. I don't think this can be reasonably disputed.

Yes, slightly past it De La Hoya. He looked fantastic in destroying Mayorga a year earlier and though Mayorga's defense was terrible, he was still a top rated junior middleweight. And before that he was holding his own and even outboxing at times Bernard Hopkins before being stopped.

What was your scorecard for the first Castillo fight, by the way? Because Floyd swept the first four rounds and the only way you can have Floyd losing was if you had Castillo winning 7 out of the 8 rounds following that. I thought Floyd at least won 2 rounds between rounds 5 and 12.

The notion that Pacquiao's resume is better than Floyd's can certainly be disputed. In fact, most objective (keyword: OBJECTIVE) people whom I've spoken to agree that it can be argued for both men. But if you want to downplay Floyd's wins, I can do the same for Pacquiao.

He arguably lost twice to Marquez. He got schooled by Morales the first time and after Morales got shut out by Raheem, Pacquiao beat Raheem's leftovers. He beat a distracted Barrera the first time (as Barrera's camp in Big Bear was being destroyed by a fire) and he beat a shot Barrera the second time. He beat Floyd's leftovers in De La Hoya and Hatton and he beat a past it Cotto, who was never the same after the Margarito fight. And beating Hall of Famers doesn't really count if they were completely shot... see Morales, Erik and De La Hoya, Oscar. If you're arguing that Oscar was fading fast fighting Mayweather, then what was he fighting Pacquiao?

[Rui]

As for achievements, sure both PBF and the Pacman could be considered the best pound-for-pound in our generation and they both have key wins, but they also have wins against opponents where critics and fans keep making excuses (i.e. someone fight your own size).

In PBF's case, Mayweather cleaned out 130 and have wins over Jose Luis Castillo, the late Diego Corrales, Arturo Gatti and Oscar De La Hoya, but he also has wins over Ricky Hatton and Juan Manuel Marquez two fighters for example that had to meet at catchweight or move up in weight to face Floyd.

In Manny's case, the Filipino slugger beat future Hall of Famers Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Marquez and Miguel Cotto, but he also had wins over Juan Diaz, Oscar Larios and Jorge Solis.

Cotto probably isn't going to be in the Hall of Fame and Morales was basically a shell of his former self when he fought Pacquiao the second and third time. He was shut out by Raheem before that. In my opinion I don't think Larios, Solis, and David Diaz were Pacquiao's best secondary wins. Larios was past it and moving up to 130 from 122, Solis, though undefeated, was never that special, and Diaz wasn't anything special either.

Pacquiao's best secondary wins could be Sasakul and Ledwaba.