I don't understand the Max Kellerman hate. Care to explain it?
I don't understand the Max Kellerman hate. Care to explain it?
I kinda think that whole thing was orchestrated. Anyway, I was not surprised at the result, although I thought Marquez would bring more to the table. He looked like a midget standing in there with PBF. Now we will see Floyd take on some dangerous fights, be it Mosley, Pac, Cotto, whoever. He owes the IRS money, there is no greater motivation than that. His next two fights will determine in my eyes whether he truly is an all time great.Originally Posted by b_joseph
Dem ol' grimy Jets...
I actually thought he did a good job last night - and I liked him on the radio - but my hate (or dislike) comes from the fact that he replaced the legend that is Larry Merchant.
As for this fight, I'll preface this by saying Mayweather is obviously a very talented boxer... That said, he is the biggest fraud ever. Taking this fight was a joke. Marquez is not in the class of Mayweather and is nowhere near the best at this weight. Who cares about a top 147 pound boxer beating a smaller Marquez?
And of course, there is the whole weight issue. The fact that Mayweather wouldn't go down to 144 pretty much voids the fight in my opinion. Was he that concerned that he couldn't guarantee he'd beat a smaller and weaker opponent that he had to cheat to make sure he had the extra 2 pound advantage too?
If he wants to prove he's the best, he can fight a Shane Mosley or a Miguel Cotto. I guess everyone wants to see Pacquiao, and if Pacquiao beats Cotto he deserves that fight, but I definitely think Cotto will win that. And then PBF will do what he normally does - duck.
“I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.”
To quote the only true thing Floyd has ever said, he talks too much.
Constantly interupting and cutting off Floyd's answers (who cares that he wasn't answering the way Max wanted) and then doing his best to ruin the post-fight drama (I don't care how staged most of it was). He makes it all about himself. I don't believe people tune in to watch him try to extract a confession from the people he interviews, which is all he tries to do. He ruined Paulie Malignaggi's great rant the other day too.
There is no need to reinvent the wheel, even though most boxing insiders are trying to do this since the rise of mma. There is something to be said for allowing fighters to become over the top characters that make you invest emotionally in the drama of their fights. Kellerman's totalitarian style of interviewing kills this.
He also looked weak as hell when he almost cried after Mayweather called him out and was reduced to just begging for "Jim...". His defense of his interview afterwards was lame too.
I think Pac will beat Cotto handily...Pac's movement, speed, and power will undo him. As far as PBF goes, I think he's at the point in his career where he realizes that he can no longer duck dangerous opponents and has to now make fights that the fans want to see. He didn't do so well outside of the ring...and at the age of 32 I think he realized that if he wants to keep walking around with 10 g's of cash in his pocket that he needs to take on all comers.
Dem ol' grimy Jets...
40-0 is 40-0. Anything from here is just icing on the cake.
He is so fundamentally sound right now...you just dont see many guys like this.
"Owning the Yankees," Steinbrenner once said, "is like owning the Mona Lisa."
He's always been fundamentally distinguished but he doesn't have the same respect of a guy like Hopkins, who fought all comers. I think it's safe to say that pre-retirement, PBF did a little cherry picking. I think he's always been talented, but he places himself among the all time greats. Now we will see if he truly is. Sorry, but headline wins over the likes of Baldomir and Gatti don't quite cut it.
Dem ol' grimy Jets...
The first time I remember Max cutting Floyd off was when Floyd began to thank his sponsors -- and nobody wants to hear him do that. He may have killed the postfight drama between Mayweather and Mosley, or it could've been the producers telling him to do so from his earpiece.
But I find that there's a double standard whenever Max is interviewing someone. Had Larry Merchant done the same thing, people would've been excusing it to good ol' Larry being Larry. But when Max does it, he's too strict and needs to let the fighters talk more.
Floyd's already an all-time great. I don't think you can really dispute that. He's ahead of Hopkins in terms of legacy by most people's accounts. Floyd was the lineal champion at 130, 135, and 147 as well as undefeated despite facing some solid guys in his career. He's easily one of the 50 greatest fighters of all-time at this point in his career.
But he has a chance to place himself alongside the 10 greatest fighters of all-time alongside guys like Sugar Ray Robinson, Harry Greb, Roberto Duran, Willie Pep, etc. Meanwhile, Pacquiao is also one of the greatest 50 fighters of all-time right now. That's what makes a potential Pacquiao/Mayweather fight so significant. The winner will be regarded as one of the top 20 greatest fighters ever.
I agree he is top 50 but to hear Floyd talk about it, you would think he is top 10. He is not that right now, which is what I am getting at with my criticism. I realize relentless self promotion is necessary with boxing in its current state but please, when you're fighting Gatti and Baldomir while guys like Mosley, Cotto, Margarito (nobody knew he was cheating) and Paul Williams are out there does not strike me as the way a true all time great does it.
Dem ol' grimy Jets...
Holy crap was I insanely wrong. I need to stop drinking.
Pre Jose Luis Castillo, Floyd was the man and it looked like he was going to be top 5 all time. But then he realized HBO would pay him to fight bums like Brussels and that's where we are now. Just like Roy Jones, the fights were out there for Floyd but he chose to take the safe route. I don't blame him it's his choice, I just feel robbed as a fan because I would have loved to see Floyd fight Margarito or Mosley or Pac Man. He has a chance to still fight Mosley and Manny and I really hope he does. I still think Sweat Pea Whitaker was the better fighter of our generation.
Floyd, ahead of Hopkins? Not sure about that, Hopkins dominated the middleweights and his wins over Tarver and Pavlik while he was in semi-retirement were damn impressive. And he beat your avatar pretty good too.
Last edited by Nth Man; 09-21-09 at 06:04 PM.
I would agree. Whitaker is a top 20 fighter, Floyd is in the 30-40 range.
Floyd facing the winner of Cotto/Pacquiao means a lot more to his legacy than fighting Mosley. Once Floyd decisions Mosley, people are going to say Mosley is shot.
Depends on what Mosley shows up.
Floyd is easily ahead of Hopkins.
Hopkins was convincingly beaten by Roy Jones when both of them were green and Hopkins followed that up with 20 middleweight defenses against medicore (at best) opposition with 2 former welterweights in between in Trinidad and De La Hoya. I never thought too highly of Tarver and we'll have to see if Pavlik is all that he's cracked up to be when he fights Williams.
And did you really think Hopkins beat Wright convincingly? It was a very close fight -- I had it a draw as did Harold Lederman. Care to post your scorecard up?
If the Mosley who fought Margarito showed up and still got outboxed by Mayweather, people would still discredit Floyd's win by claiming that Mosley was way past his prime.
It's one thing to look fast against Margarito -- he's one of the slowest welterweights out there. I didn't see Shane look all that quick against Cotto. It's all relative.
Pavlik is bigger then Paul Williams and has power. Paul, well he throws a lot. That fight is a mismatch in my eyes. Williams has never had to punch up.
I disagree. I think Williams beats Pavlik.
Just because Williams has never faced a fighter taller than him doesn't mean once he does, he's just going to choke. He's way faster than Pavlik, has the superior workrate, has the superior stamina, and has actually looked good against a top middleweight the past 2 years.
Didn't say Williams would choke. Pavlik is the bigger stronger fighter. I give him a big advantage. And no way are you telling me Winky was still a top middleweight when Paul beat him. Wright hasn't won a fight since he beat a blown up junior middleweight in 2006. Please tell me you are related to Winky.
If anyone has the time, I would love to see a few peoples lists of their top 50 fighters.
Its something you dont really see that often. People talk about greats but never really list them up.
"Owning the Yankees," Steinbrenner once said, "is like owning the Mona Lisa."
That's tough since footage of so many of the greats is hard to get access too. I guess you can go on reputation.
Name me 5 middleweights that you would've rated higher than Wright coming into the Williams fight.
You have Pavlik, Abraham, and that's about it. You could make a very weak case for Sturm. Yeah, Wright was inactive. But he gave Hopkins a very close fight in his previous bout, despite what you said about Wright being beat up by Hopkins (I'd still like to see your scorecard, by the way). Obviously Williams doesn't count because he had never fought at that weight before prior to facing Wright. Middleweight was and still is an awful division aside from Pavlik and Williams.
I'll do a top 30 real quick.
1.) Henry Armstrong
2.) Sugar Ray Robinson
3.) Sam Langford
4.) Harry Greb
5.) Sam Langford
6.) Willie Pep
7.) Roberto Duran
8.) Benny Leonard
9.) Ezzard Charles
10.) Mickey Walker
11.) Archie Moore
12.) Pernell Whitaker
13.) Muhammad Ali
14.) Tony Canzoneri
15.) Barney Ross
16.) Gene Tunney
17.) Sugar Ray Leonard
18.) Eder Jofre
19.) Sandy Saddler
20.) Carlos Monzon
21.) Joe Louis
22.) Emile Griffith
23.) Bob Fitzsimmons
24.) Jimmy Wilde
25.) Joe Gans
26.) Floyd Mayweather Jr.
27.) Julio Cesar Chavez
28.) Roy Jones Jr.
29.) Alexis Arguello
30.) Jose Napoles
That's just a general idea. I would probably change some names around if I thought about it harder.
You are seriously underrating Miguel Cotto - who is much, much bigger than Pacquiao. Cotto is an awesome boxer and the only time he ever has lost is when he was facing a Margarito who had plastic wrapped underneath his gloves. Pacquiao (who I love) has never fought anyone in the same class as Cotto at this weight. His two other fights at 147 were against a washed up De La Hoya and an extremely overrated Hatton (at 140).
And we'll see on Mayweather. I think Mayweather (probably rightly) believes that he's the main attraction so he can pick the guy he fights and still get a ton of money. He'll need to continue to fight though given his money issues, and I can't think of another guy except Manny, Mosley, or Cotto, so it'll be interesting how it works out.
“I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.”
40-0 doesn't mean all that much in boxing as it depends who you fight. PBF is a great boxer, but he hasn't proven he's the best.
“I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.”
Damn, after seeing Floyd own Marquez I'm really worried about Pacman facing PBF. I may be underrating Manny but it's hard to fight someone who's taller and impossible to hit. But Manny is trained by the BEST so if he executes his game plan then he should win.
It won't be easy but if there's someone who can pull it off it's Manny.
Chris Arreola vs. Vitali Klitschko for the WBC Heavyweight title from Staples Center in L.A. this Saturday night at 10 PM ET/7 PM PT on HBO World Championship Boxing.
I pick Vitali via KO in the 8th round.
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Arreola vs. Klitschko weigh-in
http://www.fightnews.com/?p=24222#more-24222
WBC heavyweight champion Vitali Klitschko weighed in at 252lbs for his defense against Chris Arreola, who scaled in at 251. They meet Saturday at Staples Center in Los Angeles.
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto 24/7 starting on October 24 on HBO.
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Another title defense, another win going to the Kiltschko's brothers.
Vitali successfully defends his WBC Heavyweight title with a 10th round TKO (Cut) win over Cris Arreola.
I had it 99-91 for Klitschko before the stoppage.
http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Can't wait for that! I'm a fan of Pacquiao but I'm wondering if he's going to be outmatched by the size of Cotto the way Marquez was dominated by Mayweather.
It's going to be a tough fight for Manny Pacquiao against Miguel Cotto. This is the biggest test in the career of the Filipino slugger.
Like Oscar de la Hoya, Cotto has a jaw-breaking left hook.
Unlike Oscar de la Hoya, Cotto is in the prime of his career.
Like Ricky Hatton, Cotto is one of the best body punchers in the game.
Unlike Ricky Hatton, Cotto has a higher boxing IQ.
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Okay boxing fans,
Are your siked up to watch the Super Six World Boxing Classic tournament on Showtime starting on October 17th?
I am.
Here's the website:
http://sports.sho.com/sswbc/events/a...t-17-2009.html
Format:
The competition will consist of a round robin phase, where each boxer will fight three times, and be awarded 3 points for a win by knockout or technical knockout, 2 points for a win on points, 1 point for a draw and 0 points for a loss.
The top 4 from the group phase will continue to the semi-finals, matching the leader against no. 4 and no. 2 against no. 3. The winners of the semi-finals proceed to the final, for the tournament.
Participants:
* Armenia Arthur Abraham
* United States Andre Dirrell
* England Carl Froch
* Denmark Mikkel Kessler
* United States Jermain Taylor
* United States Andre Ward
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Group Stage 1 - Super Six World Boxing Classic
* October 17 in Berlin, Germany: Armenia Arthur Abraham vs. United States Jermain Taylor
BB55's Pick: Arthur Abraham by 11th Round TKO.
* October 17 in Nottingham, England: England Carl Froch vs. United States Andre Dirrell for WBC Super Middleweight Championship
BB55's Pick: Carl Froch by unanimous decision.
* November 21 in Oakland, California: Denmark Mikkel Kessler vs. United States Andre Ward for WBA Super Middleweight Championship
BB55's Pick: Andre Ward by unanimous decision.
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
In the first fight of the Super Six World Boxing Classic, Arthur Abraham of Armenia knocked out American Jermain Taylor at 2:54 of Round 12. I had it 8 rounds to 3 for Abraham.
Taylor also landed some low blows.
http://www.fightnews.com/?p=26880
In the second fight, Carl Froch edges Andre Dirrell via split decision.
I had Froch winning 115-112.
http://www.fightnews.com/?p=26903
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Super Six World Boxing Classic - Rounds 2 and 3 Matchups
http://www.fightnews.com/?p=26900
GROUP STAGE 2
Andre Dirrell vs. Arthur Abraham
Mikkel Kessler vs. Carl Froch
Jermain Taylor vs. Andre Ward
GROUP STAGE 3
Andre Dirrell vs. Andre Ward
Carl Froch vs. Arthur Abraham
Mikkel Kessler vs. Jermain Taylor
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Firepower: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto on November 14th
http://www.fightnews.com/?p=26882
Referee and Judges
For the Manny Pacquiao vs Miguel Cotto WBO welterweight title fight on November 14th at the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada, the Nevada State Athletic Commission has selected Kenny Bayless as the referee and the judges selected are: Adelaide Byrd, Duane Ford and Dave Moretti, all from Las Vegas.
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Hey. Does anyone know of any good boxing sites or blogs? I don't really follow the sport, but I was asked and I have no clue, so I figured I'd check here.
Thank you!
To be sane is more dramatic than to be mad - GK Chesterton, Orthodoxy
boxrec.com is a great resource. You can get lost in that site. Saddoboxing.com is good too, it has a pretty lively forum.
Dem ol' grimy Jets...
Thank you - I knew I could find help here!
To be sane is more dramatic than to be mad - GK Chesterton, Orthodoxy
One Pound4Pound Best calls out another: Manny Pacquiao calls out Floyd Mayweather Jr.
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=4607169
"I don't think it's going to happen," Pacquiao said. "I'm sure he doesn't want to fight."
"Boxing for him is like a business," Pacquiao said. "He doesn't care about the people around him watching. He doesn't care if the fight is boring, as long as the fight is finished and he gets [plenty of] money. ... I want people to be happy. You have a big responsibility as a boxer."
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Instant replay making debut in Nevada
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=4610011
When the referee can use replay is also limited in scope.
"It can only be used to review something when a fight is stopped due to an injury," Kizer said. "They can only use it to review what caused that fight-ending injury. If you do see replay used, it will probably be either to determine if a clash of heads or a punch caused the end of the fight. There are times when we'll see a big cut open up and a fight is immediately stopped. The referee can use replay to determine if it was caused by a butt or a punch."
The other likely scenario in which replay could be employed would be if a punch caused the end of a fight but it was unclear if the punch landed before or after the bell.
Kizer pointed out that if a fighter was cut early in a round, after which the referee makes an immediate ruling on how it happened, and that injury forced the bout to be stopped later in the round or even a few rounds later, it could not be reviewed.
"It has to be immediate," Kizer said.
Replay also will not be used to determine if a knockdown was caused by a punch or was a slip.
If there is no definitive video evidence showing what caused a fight-ending injury, the referee's original call will stand, just like when a referee makes a call in the NFL.
"If the instant replay is unclear, the play stands and you're in no worse shape than you were without having it," Kizer said. "It can only be a positive thing."
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Wow could Pac possibly do any more to cement his position as my favorite boxer. I love it, he's right on so many levels
Dem ol' grimy Jets...
No question here: Chad Dawson dominated Glen Johnson.
Dawson wins via unanimous decision over Johnson in the rematch of their controversial April 12, 2008 bout where Dawson won controversially via unanimous decision.
This time, Dawson outclassed Johnson.
http://www.fightnews.com/?p=28898
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
David “The Hayemaker” Haye dethrones Nikolay Valuev
http://www.fightnews.com/?p=28860
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
ESPN's 12 Round Preview: Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto, WBO Welterweight title
http://espn.go.com/boxing/twelverounds
Bert Sugar's Preview
http://www.hbo.com/boxing/events/200...sugar_pre.html
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
BB55's Primer: Firepower - Manny Pacquiao vs. Miguel Cotto
Even though Miguel Cotto holds the WBO Welterweight title and the title will be on the line in a catchweight at 145-lb., Manny Pacquiao is still the favorite to win this fight.
Why? With a win against Cotto, Pacquiao becomes the first boxer in boxing history to win a world title in seven different weight classes and also a future mega bout with Floyd Mayweather Jr. Also, Manny keeps the moniker as the Henry 'Hank' Armstrong of this era.
If Cotto wins, the Puerto Rican gets a shot at Floyd Mayweather Jr.
What do I think will be the keys to the fight?
Well, I think ring generalship is going to be one of the keys.
- I think for Pacquiao to win this fight, the Filipino slugger needs to use the same strategy like in his knockout wins over Erik Morales and Oscar De La Hoya: keep the fight in the center of the ring and use your head movement and footwork to get away from the ropes and use your speed and outside angles to your advantage. Also, if Pacquiao goes to the ropes and trap Cotto, go to the body.
- For Cotto, he needs to trap Pacquiao along the ropes and in the corner and smother him so Pacquiao can't get out. With that tactic, Cotto can use his body shots especially his left hook to the body a la 'The Babyface Assassin' Marco Antonio Barrera. Pacquiao's durability hasn't been tested at this weight class and he has been knocked out before with a body shot. Just ask Medgoen Singsurat when the Thai knocked down and stopped Pacquiao with a body shot during the Pacman's days as a flyweight fighter.
Another key is versatility.
- There is no question that Pacquiao went from a simple 1,2 double jab and a deadly left cross, straight left hand fighter to a fighter who can do anything especially using his right hand and head movement and footwork. However against Cotto, he needs to use the same tools especially using a counter right like he did against another body puncher Ricky Hatton because that left hook to the body will come anytime, anywhere and at any moment.
- For Cotto, he can adapt as the fight goes along including switching stances like he did against Joshua Clottey and 'Sugar' Shane Mosley. Like Oscar De La Hoya, he has a powerful left hook. Unlike the Golden Boy, Cotto is in his prime. Like Ricky Hatton, he has very good body work. Unlike the Hitman, Cotto is a better tactician and counterpuncher. Counterpunchers can give Pacquiao problems like Juan Manuel Marquez.
And I think mental toughness will play a factor.
- Along with facing a fighter who is in his prime and is a bigger, more well-rounded 147-lb fighter in Cotto, Pacquiao had to face distractions throughout his career. Not only Pacquiao did TV shows with GMA and running for a political seat, but also he held training camp in the Philippines before coming to the WildCard Gym in Hollywood.
- As for Cotto, he also faced tough times with the firing of Evangelista Cotto and his brutal and controversial loss (over the illegal handwraps) to Antonio Margarito. If Cotto loses to Pacquiao, I don't know if he will be able to recover.
BB55's Prediction: Cotto does have the edge in the power game and will give Pacquiao a much tougher test in the Welterweight division. However, I think Pacquiao's speed and purposeful energy will give Cotto a huge test. Both wills will be tested. Both are hungry for a future fight against Floyd Mayweather Jr.
In the end, I think Pacquiao will edge out Cotto in the end in a tough, brutal war to become the first boxer in boxing history to win seven world titles in seven weight divisions.
BB55's Final Verdict: Manny Pacquiao over Miguel Cotto, TKO 10th Round.
Last edited by BroadwayBomber55; 11-14-09 at 12:45 AM.
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
Good preview BB55. I agree with your points and your predicition, give or take a round. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Cotto's game; he's powerful, deceptively quick and he showed great boxing skills against Mosley. But I do think he tends to get hit a little too much. I think this will be his downfall.
Dem ol' grimy Jets...
"I'd rather hurt you honestly than mislead you with a lie."
Manny Pacquiao and Miguel Cotto make weight.
Pacman at 144; Cotto at 145
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=4653029
"Don't Give Up...Don't Ever Give Up." - Jimmy Valvano
One must know pain to be a hero.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
