Daisuke Matsuzaka from the Seibu Lions may come to the US in '05

[Kulish29]

He's one of the better pitchers in Japan, and has been touted as the hardest throwing. He's only 24. May be a thing for the Yanks to check out and sign him to a Minor League contract and have him in the minors for a year and then bring him up. Here's some info on him.

http://www.cincypost.com/2004/04/03/...4-03-2004.html

4. Daisuke Matsuzaka, RHP, Seibu Lions. Gary Denbo, a former Yankees hitting coach and now hitting coach for the Nippon Ham Fighters, said the 23-year-old "is probably the No. 1 starter in our league and is a potential No. 2 or 3 starter in the major leagues." He's a power pitcher (his fastball reaches about 94 mph) who mixes in a slider, changeup and curve. Last year, he won 16 games and struck out 215.

http://rotoworld.com/content/story.a...B&storyid=5857

Potential imports - Daisuke Matsuzaka (RHP), Koji Uehara (RHP)

Matsuzaka and Uehara are among the very best pitchers in Japan, and both have dropped hints that they’d like to jump the majors. If it happens this winter, it’s safe to assume the Yankees and Mariners will be among the teams that get into the bidding. Matsuzaka, who turns 24 in two weeks, is the harder thrower of the two, combining a low-90s fastball with a splitter and slider. Uehara, 29, may want to reunite with former Giants teammate Hideki Matsui in New York.

His stats since 1999:

http://japanesebaseball.com/players/...?PlayerID=1104

Thoughts? Or should the Yanks be done with Japanese import pitchers?

[Irony Of It All]

I'm interested but there is some concern because he throws a gyroball and there hasn't been significant research on whether or not this pitch has caused his arm problems...

The gyroball works well in the confines of a supercomputer, but how does it work on the field? There are several pitchers making use of double-spin mechanics, but there is also a clear star: Daisuke Matsuzaka. The Seibu Lions’ 23-year-old ace throws a 98-m.p.h. fastball in addition to his gyroball, but he is best remembered in Japan for pitching ten innings in an Olympics game while just out of high school. He has lived up to the promise he showed in 2000, but has experienced elbow problems over the last two seasons.

Is this elbow problem the result of throwing the gyroball? Some flaw in double-spin theory? It’s hard to know. While much of the pitching research being done in Japan is on a par with that in America, research on pitch counts and pitcher workload has been ignored. Pitchers routinely throw 150 or more pitches and are asked to throw more in the bullpen after a poor performance. Matsuzaka is reported to have thrown more than 140 pitches ten times in 2002, just before his shoulder problems began. Worse, he had a legendary high-school start in which he pitched a complete game . . . and threw 249 pitches in 17 innings!

http://www.robneyer.com/book_04_gyroball.html

[Kulish29]

Thanks for the info Irony. He hasnt had any debilitating arm problems over the years, so I would still sign him to a minor league contract. He seems like the real deal. A tune up in the minors for a year and then bringing him up either mid-year '05 or to start '06 would be nice.

[Irony Of It All]

Originally posted by Kulish29
Thanks for the info Irony. He hasnt had any debilitating arm problems over the years, so I would still sign him to a minor league contract. He seems like the real deal. A tune up in the minors for a year and then bringing him up either mid-year '05 or to start '06 would be nice.

You're welcome and agreed on all points.

[mbn007]

I would like to see that pitch thrown on a consistent basis. A right hand hitter is not at all set up for such a late break, going the wrong way.

[Kulish29]

Originally posted by mbn007
I would like to see that pitch thrown on a consistent basis. A right hand hitter is not at all set up for such a late break, going the wrong way.

It does sound like an interesting pitch.

[NJASDJDH]

Originally posted by mbn007
I would like to see that pitch thrown on a consistent basis. A right hand hitter is not at all set up for such a late break, going the wrong way.

I think Ramon Ramirez throws it.

[mbn007]

Originally posted by NJASDJDH


I think Ramon Ramirez throws it.

I thought his was a backdoor slider??

[Irony Of It All]

Ouch. Apparently Saving The Pitcher hasn't been translated into Japanese yet, although I know one team has a copy or two lying around. Daisuke Matsuzaka, the Japanese Olympic ace, came back to Seibu and promptly struck out 16. It took him an unfortunate 149 pitches to accomplish this, and I'm guessing that even with his extra rest, he wasn't given the same advantages Jason Schmidt had when he went long in a couple starts earlier this season. Matsuzaka is expected to come to the U.S. next season. Let's hope he has an arm left to show off.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ar...articleid=3427

[mrbawm]

We need to get guys like this and Kendry Morales signed to minor league deals, it's imperative considering where we draft in the system and how old are team is.

[Matsui55]

Matsuzaka is the best pitch in Japan- and has serious big game experience. He just (literally this week) turned 24, yet has already been the ace on 2 Japanese Olympic teams. In Athens, he shut out the Cuban for 8 1/3 innings.

Matsuzaka will be highly sought after, most likely by every single team with any cash. However, there is a catch. Matsuzaka only has 6 years of time in the bigs there. In Japan, you need 10 years for unrestricted FA. Therefore, Matsuzaka would have to be "posted."

Essentially, posting means that U.S. teams submit sealed, secret bids to the Japanese team- best bid wins. But that only gets you negotiation rights- you still have to sign the guy. The M's did this with Ichiro several years ago- paid Orix about $11 million just to negotiate, then another $15 million or so to sign Ichiro.

I have little doubt Matsuzaka will get similar $$. He throws in the high 90's and has been a big winner. The negative- he's short- maybe 6'0" on a good day. Then again, Pedro and Wagner have had no problems with being short.

If Matsuzaka comes here, he's a #2 starter immediately for many clubs, though he might not be more than a #3 for the Yanks or Sox.

[ICEBERG18]

Originally posted by Matsui55
Matsuzaka is the best pitch in Japan- and has serious big game experience. He just (literally this week) turned 24, yet has already been the ace on 2 Japanese Olympic teams. In Athens, he shut out the Cuban for 8 1/3 innings.

Matsuzaka will be highly sought after, most likely by every single team with any cash. However, there is a catch. Matsuzaka only has 6 years of time in the bigs there. In Japan, you need 10 years for unrestricted FA. Therefore, Matsuzaka would have to be "posted."

Essentially, posting means that U.S. teams submit sealed, secret bids to the Japanese team- best bid wins. But that only gets you negotiation rights- you still have to sign the guy. The M's did this with Ichiro several years ago- paid Orix about $11 million just to negotiate, then another $15 million or so to sign Ichiro.

I have little doubt Matsuzaka will get similar $$. He throws in the high 90's and has been a big winner. The negative- he's short- maybe 6'0" on a good day. Then again, Pedro and Wagner have had no problems with being short.

If Matsuzaka comes here, he's a #2 starter immediately for many clubs, though he might not be more than a #3 for the Yanks or Sox.

so he needs 4 more years to become a free agent so why are we talking about him now because i doubt he will be posted i thought he was going to become a free agent this year oh well.....

i still would like the yankees to take a run at him when ever he comes over from japan if his arm doesn't fall off by then.LOL.

[Matsui55]

We are very likely to see Matsuzaka and a number of remaining stars get posted this off-season. Many Japanese teams are just barely breaking even, if not outright losing money.

While it would seem a bad idea to pawn off the remaining assets to make money now, do not be suprised if the clubs elect to do so. There exists the possibility that the Japanese players will strike this fall. Even without a strike, it is clear that more of the best players will head to the states when they reach FA.

Since the clubs get nothing financially for a player who walks via FA to the states, more teams are exploring getting cash now for star players in order to try and lure the mid-level players to stay and play for them now. While it seems like a dumb option that will likely kill the remaining interest in the Japanese leagues, given the finances of the teams there, that may just be an inevitability anyway in about 10 years.

Selling off high-priced assets to invest in cheaper, and hopefully motivated players is a short term way to stem the bleeding. However, since most of the Yankee games are televised in Japan, many fans are now well aware that the American game has more "action" and is more exciting than the slow stoggy games in Japan. Thus, there is an growning slide in interest in the Japanese baseball game. Soccer is also to blame.

I believe that we will likely see at least 3 or 4 of the highly paid young stars of Japan get posted, if for no other reason than to give their old team a financial boost. It is the equivalent of revenue sharing here- short term, its great, but long-term, are you are doing is treading water if your fans don't buy it.

[Kulish29]

Originally posted by Matsui55
Matsuzaka is the best pitch in Japan- and has serious big game experience. He just (literally this week) turned 24, yet has already been the ace on 2 Japanese Olympic teams. In Athens, he shut out the Cuban for 8 1/3 innings.

Matsuzaka will be highly sought after, most likely by every single team with any cash. However, there is a catch. Matsuzaka only has 6 years of time in the bigs there. In Japan, you need 10 years for unrestricted FA. Therefore, Matsuzaka would have to be "posted."

Essentially, posting means that U.S. teams submit sealed, secret bids to the Japanese team- best bid wins. But that only gets you negotiation rights- you still have to sign the guy. The M's did this with Ichiro several years ago- paid Orix about $11 million just to negotiate, then another $15 million or so to sign Ichiro.

I have little doubt Matsuzaka will get similar $$. He throws in the high 90's and has been a big winner. The negative- he's short- maybe 6'0" on a good day. Then again, Pedro and Wagner have had no problems with being short.

If Matsuzaka comes here, he's a #2 starter immediately for many clubs, though he might not be more than a #3 for the Yanks or Sox.

From what I've read, he'll be posted. If George's baseball people tell him that Matsuzaka is a good idea then he'll pay out the wazoo. The only hitch I see is, after the Irabu incident, does George want another Japanese pitcher?

[Matsui55]

Matsuzaka was dominant in his performance against the ML All-Stars- beat them 5-1, with a complete game performance. Bet that got some attention around the league.

[matt27]

a better option than milton, leiter, etc?

[mbn007]

Originally posted by matt27
a better option than milton, leiter, etc?

Maybe not, since he's a righty. But something to keep an eye on, no doubt .

[iamherring]

Seems like it's got significant potential from a business perspective. The Yanks make a ton on Japanese coverage of Matsui, which elevates his value significantly.
Maybe cornering that market is a strategy that should be looked into.

[Michaels07]

Ah so, Yankees will soon have company for Matsui.

[Yanks21]

This kid is supposedly a BEAST. It will take an Ichiro type of posting ($10 million) just to win the chance to negotiate. He tossed a complete game, 5 hitter against the MLB All-Stars last week. The gyroball he throws will probably make him a star...

[Kulish29]

Originally posted by Yanks21
This kid is supposedly a BEAST. It will take an Ichiro type of posting ($10 million) just to win the chance to negotiate. He tossed a complete game, 5 hitter against the MLB All-Stars last week. The gyroball he throws will probably make him a star...

Only thing I'm worried about is the extreme overuse on that arm of his. Other than that, he looks promising.

[sugmasterflex]

Originally posted by Yanks21
This kid is supposedly a BEAST. It will take an Ichiro type of posting ($10 million) just to win the chance to negotiate. He tossed a complete game, 5 hitter against the MLB All-Stars last week. The gyroball he throws will probably make him a star...

How big is he (weight, height) and how many Ks did he have against the MLB All-Stars?

The one thing I would worry about him is the amount of abuse his arm has taken thus far.

[Yanks21]

Originally posted by sugmasterflex


How big is he (weight, height) and how many Ks did he have against the MLB All-Stars?

The one thing I would worry about him is the amount of abuse his arm has taken thus far.

He's approximately 5'11, 190. He struck out 6, and walked none...

[mbn007]

Originally posted by Yanks21


He's approximately 5'11, 190. He struck out 6, and walked none...

Not that big, but not a Ron Guidry - Pedro Martinez frame either.

[Matsui55]

Remember, in Japan, most clubs are owed by corporations. Seibu is actually a large supermarket/ department store chain. If you need a point of reference, think SuperTarget or SuperWalMart.

The point is, like many other companies in Japan's down ecomony, Seibu has not done well at all. They may be looking for a big cash infusion by next year.

That said, I don't think anyone will get posted by Japanese teams this year for two reasons.

One, the owners were very unhappy that the players put them over the barrel with their mini-strike this summer, so they may be a little more than spiteful this winter.

Two, politically, it may be impossible to sell off stars when the owners made the argument that they needed to contract two teams to save the league. Many commentators asked, correctly,what is left to save if they just sell off their best to the U.S.? In light of that, they may be forced to sit on their hands for a year.

The Japanese league is adding a new team this year, but after the acclimation period next year, expect a flurry of movement in late 2005 to the U.S.

[ICEBERG18]

"I would definitely like to play in the majors," Matsuzaka said after the game. "I wanted to show what I could do."





http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1926706

[Matsui55]

I don't think the posting system is quite as simple as the writer claims it is. I believe that the TEAM has to agree to post the player.

If it was as simple as the player posting himself, don't you think many a player would have back-door FA'd himself to the bigs?

The reality is this- the comissioner's office in Japan has real clout- unlike Bud Selig. If they want the owners to do something, they will. It is my impression that there will not be any posting in the near future, especially for the Japan National Team Ace, and with the Baseball World Cup getting close to a reality.

Matsuzaka may become available, but it is already a little late for Seibu to maximize his value in posting, so they may wait until next winter, when they would have more time to advertize availability to get the most $$.

I would strongly endorse the Yanks going all out for him, but I just don't think it will happen this winter. Just a side note- I believe that the Red Sox have a good relationship with one of the Pacific League teams- I can't remember which one, but it might be Seibu.

[kamikaze]

Originally posted by Kulish29


Only thing I'm worried about is the extreme overuse on that arm of his. Other than that, he looks promising.

I agree. His stats look good

[SoCal Pinstriper]

Thanks for the info guys. Just more stuff I would be completely unaware of without Nyyfans.

[gurgie]

the article in espn also mentions two second basemen one with "with great range, and a four-time golden glove winner" the other a lead off hitter with a .438 obp are either of them worth a look? the first one said that he would not come over here for less that 1million. geroge cleans that out of his couch. and both are lead off hitters.

[WiffleWOOD]

from kyle:

http://www.oddball-mall.com/knuckler...ad.php?tid=146

http://forum.sgi.co.jp/soc_dat/maky...es/movie022.mpg

[ICEBERG18]

Today, Matsuzaka officially made it clear to his club (Seibu) that he wishes to be posted next year. A club representative told reporters that Matsuzaka spoke of his desire to move to the Majors via the posting system.

This occurred after some contract renewal negotiations (which -- according to one article -- had concluded with Matsuzaka set to earn highest annual salary of any pitcher ever in the Pacific League -- although the article admits the numbers are just estimates).

Another subtle step, I reckon. Look for him in 2006. And no, I ain't going to update this thread everytime Matsuzaka sneezes. Just FWIW.


Links are in Japanese.

www.nikkansports.com/ns/b...-0040.html
news.goo.ne.jp/news/kyodo..._h112.html


from a message board.....

[ICEBERG18]

Well, his press conference headed up the sports news this morning. Headlines read like "Matsuzaka going to the Major in 2006 (?)"

It was sort of big news -- the first time he told his club I want to be posted; I want to go. So I wouldn't be surprised.

Oh, and one news station -- owned by Yomiuri, I should note -- added that Matsuzaka's preference is to play for the Yankee

[matt27]

If we're stuck with Brown in the rotation for 2005, that spot comes open in 2006.

[SoCal Pinstriper]

I love the search function. More Matsuzaka speculation in this article on how Japanese players have become routine in MLB.

The next big name on the radar screen of major-league teams is Daisuke Matsuzaka, a 24-year-old star right-hander with Kaz Matsui's former team, the Seibu Lions. Matsuzaka has been a Japanese baseball legend since 1998, when he pitched a no-hitter in the championship game of the prestigious Koshien high school baseball tournament, and he had 77 career victories for Seibu entering this season.

Since he's not yet eligible for free agency, speculation is that Seibu will "post" Matsuzaka after this season, offering his services to the highest-bidding team the way the Orix Blue Wave did with Ichiro after the 2000 season. (Seattle's sealed bid of $13 million beat out several teams and earned them the right to negotiate a $14 million contract with Ichiro.) Further speculation is that Matsuzaka will end up going to the Yankees, though big-league teams are forbidden from commenting on him yet because of tampering rules.

http://www.nj.com/yankees/ledger/ind...8097861380.xml

[Matsui55]

Just one thing to keep in mind- the Baseball World Cup will be in March next year.

Matsuzaka is the Japanese team ace, which means that he will be likely to start at least 2 games in the tourney, and maybe more if they advance. That may be very rough without some good tuneups before the tournament.

I personally would be all for Matsuzaka coming to the Yanks- he has VERY good stuff (I've seen him pitch before), though he does rely a lot on the heater. However, I would prefer to see Wang get the first crack at Brown's spot in the rotation.

If the Yanks would be willing to move Wright in the offseason, and bring in Matsuzaka AND keep Wang, then I would be very interested.

Remember, the Yanks put that DL clause in Wright's contract- if he's on the DL for 60 (75?) days or more because of arm injury, they can opt out of the 3rd year. I think he's closing in on 30 already- and I believe will miss close to 45-50 before he actually returns. While teams are leery of taking on injured pitchers, they will take one year fliers (i.e.- if the Yanks exercised Wright's buy-out, then traded him)

[ICEBERG18]

-Just random information on Matsuzaka-

Matsuzaka is being deemed too expensive for their taste, especially since Yankees VP Gene Afterman has firmly stated (while somehow avoiding
tampering allegations) that the Yankees will be all over Matsuzaka when he is posted.

"He has top-of-the-rotation stuff and is not afraid," our Japan scout said.

"Coming out of high school, this kid had a 98-mph fastball with a great curveball and slider," said John Cox, who is coordinator of Pacific Rim scouting for the New York Yankees. "In typical Japanese style, they throw lots and lots of innings.

"He got hurt, but he's starting to throw with the same velocity and skills he had when he was younger. He's got excellent stuff and a feel for pitching; those combinations are tough to beat."

Daisuke Matsuzaka has played three years in Japan's major leagues, and has been named the league's best pitcher three times. He throws as hard as Ishii does, but from the right-hand side, and blew Ichiro away three times the first time they met. I also have to think he's a good candidate for arm trouble, given his age and workload.

Here is a quick peak at Daisuke Matsuzaka's 2005 statistics:

IP ERA WHIP BR/9 H/9 R/9 BB/9 SO/9 HR/9 K/BB
66.0 1.77 0.91 8.18 6.27 2.45 1.91 8.86 0.14 4.64

Here's a wild guess on my part, but i think the Yankees are interested in him & he's interested in the Yankees.

[ICEBERG18]

Kosuke Fukodome, 26, of the Dragons hit .313 with 34 homers and 96 RBI last year. Free agency won't come for him until 2008.

"This guy's got a bat that's off the charts," Cox said. "He makes good contact and can really drive the ball. He's got power, got a plus arm. He's a right fielder but has enough speed to play center. I like him. I really like him a lot."

[Yankyfan]

Sheff's replacment

[Kulish29]

Sheff's replacment

He'll be 29 by the time he's a FA, unless he gets posted. The Yankees will probably have a comperable person in RF by then.

[Donnybaseball72]

He'll be 29 by the time he's a FA, unless he gets posted. The Yankees will probably have a comperable person in RF by then.

Melky

[Yankyfan]

Melky will be on Houston as a part of the Clemmens trade.

[38Special]

Melky will be on Houston as a part of the Clemmens trade.

Thank you negative fortuneteller.

What are the powerball numbers for today?

[Fenrir]

Just one thing to keep in mind- the Baseball World Cup will be in March next year.

Matsuzaka is the Japanese team ace, which means that he will be likely to start at least 2 games in the tourney, and maybe more if they advance. That may be very rough without some good tuneups before the tournament.

I personally would be all for Matsuzaka coming to the Yanks- he has VERY good stuff (I've seen him pitch before), though he does rely a lot on the heater. However, I would prefer to see Wang get the first crack at Brown's spot in the rotation.

If the Yanks would be willing to move Wright in the offseason, and bring in Matsuzaka AND keep Wang, then I would be very interested.

Remember, the Yanks put that DL clause in Wright's contract- if he's on the DL for 60 (75?) days or more because of arm injury, they can opt out of the 3rd year. I think he's closing in on 30 already- and I believe will miss close to 45-50 before he actually returns. While teams are leery of taking on injured pitchers, they will take one year fliers (i.e.- if the Yanks exercised Wright's buy-out, then traded him)

My thinking is that if Wright spends that time on the DL and we void his last year, Matsuzaka can spend some time in the minors like Wang did and then take Wright's spot in 07.

[ICEBERG18]

My thinking is that if Wright spends that time on the DL and we void his last year, Matsuzaka can spend some time in the minors like Wang did and then take Wright's spot in 07.

I'll be surprised if Daisuke Matsuzaka spends any time in the minors. Teams are going to be bidding big time money on him.

[Fenrir]

I'll be surprised if Daisuke Matsuzaka spends any time in the minors. Team are going to be bidding big time money on him.

That's true, but personally I'd almost like to see him get a year "off", on very controlled pitch counts. I've read his arm has taken some major abuse already in his young career.

[siddiqi]

Considering Matsuzaka's past and his physique, how about considering him as a closer instead of a starter? He would have good stamina to pitch a couple of innings if neccesary and wouldn't have to start of closing with Mo in the pen for the next two years. He has a live arm and he has good control so it could be a possibility.

[sugmasterflex]

Considering Matsuzaka's past and his physique, how about considering him as a closer instead of a starter? He would have good stamina to pitch a couple of innings if neccesary and wouldn't have to start of closing with Mo in the pen for the next two years. He has a live arm and he has good control so it could be a possibility.

That's what I was thinking. The pen is the best spot for him.

[ICEBERG18]

"For you Boston fans out there, here is some scary news: Yankees VP
Gene Afterman says that the club hopes that the Lions will post ace."(Daisuke Matsuzaka)

Daisuke Matsuzaka, according to Hochi Sports in a spashy front page piece. Now the question is, does Afterman's statement violate tampering rules? In any event, the Lions ownership has indicated that they would be willing to put the young righty up for bid if he requested to do so. He isn't eligible for free agency until after the 2008 season.

[BomberBrian]

"For you Boston fans out there, here is some scary news: Yankees VP
Gene Afterman says that the club hopes that the Lions will post ace."(Daisuke Matsuzaka)

Where is this from?