What's the point of getting excited about prospects if the team will just trade them?

[sugmasterflex]

Now we're hearing that Duncan may get traded. And Cabrera. And Clippard.

Is that the Yanks' new policy now, trade them before they're even out of class A?

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/inde...8949269160.xml


http://nypost.com/sports/yankees/25772.htm



I guess next year it will be Vech, Hughes, Garcia, and Abreu, amongst others.

One of these days the Yanks will end up w/ overpriced has beens on the ML roster and nothing in the minors. Just like the Orioles were. The Orioles have been bad for a while now (since '98?), and it's going to take at least another 2 years to get back in contention. Is this what the Yanks want as well?


Is there a way to sign an online petition and send it to the Yanks? Can someone start that up? Is it too late?

I will be out for most of the day.

[Hidekifan55]

I couldn't agree more. I think they are just saying to the DBacks..."take whatever you want". They have no regard for the farm. Terrible.

[NJASDJDH]

Originally posted by Hidekifan55
I couldn't agree more. I think they are just saying to the DBacks..."take whatever you want". They have no regard for the farm. Terrible.

Count me in too. The Yankees are my favorite team and all, but if this deal goes through, and in a couple years the Yankees are left with a bunch of overpriced injured veterans on the team doing nothing as they waddle in mediocrity, I will have a good laugh at all the idiots that said it was good/right to sell the farm.

[Pomp]

Prospects are developed so they can one day contribute to the major league club. However, they are also developed so they can be traded when the major league club has a big need. Yes, the Yanks have taken this to the extreme, but we currently do have a very signficant need in our starting rotation.

I want the farm to be replenished, but is anyone really confident in our rotation right now?

[NJASDJDH]

Originally posted by Pomp
Prospects are developed so they can one day contribute to the major league club. However, they are also developed so they can be traded when the major league club has a big need. Yes, the Yanks have taken this to the extreme, but we currently do have a very signficant need in our starting rotation.

I want the farm to be replenished, but is anyone really confident in our rotation right now?

I don't think RJ makes a difference if the rest of the staff doesn't bounce back and if the rest of the staff does bounce back, I don't think RJ is needed.

[Irony Of It All]

Originally posted by NJASDJDH


I don't think RJ makes a difference if the rest of the staff doesn't bounce back and if the rest of the staff does bounce back, I don't think RJ is needed.

Agreed. We'll probably end up trading our C, 1B, 2B, and CF of the future for someone who's either not needed or is too little anyways.

[Pomp]

Originally posted by Irony Of It All


Agreed. We'll probably end up trading our C, 1B, 2B, and CF of the future for someone who's either not needed or is too little anyways.

I guess that is where we disagree. I think the Yanks need RJ like an Italian needs meatballs.

[Irony Of It All]

Originally posted by Pomp


I guess that is where we disagree. I think the Yanks need RJ like an Italian needs meatballs.

If Moose and Brown come back and pitch like they're capable do you think he's necessary? What if they don't? Would RJ be enough to make up for that?

[mbn007]

Originally posted by NJASDJDH


I don't think RJ makes a difference if the rest of the staff doesn't bounce back and if the rest of the staff does bounce back, I don't think RJ is needed.

On this I disagree.

Randy Johnson is one of the few 'difference makers" out there in the game. He is a bona fide top of the rotation starter, who almost every start gives you innings, and a better then even chance to win. Look around the current Yankee rotation. Does anyone else give you this confidence right now?

Brown - who knows what physical condition he will be in come playoff time.
Mussina - even before this current injury, he was having his worst season in his career.
Vasquez - for the most part he's been solid, but shaky. Has zero post season experience. In fact, he has never pitched in a pennant race, as the Expos have always been eliminated by August during his time there.
Contrares - an enigma, at best. Looks great vs. the Tigers and Tampa. Melts down vs. the real teams (BoSox).
Lieber - minimal post season experience. Very inconsistent this year, after the Tommy John surgery. May be the most reliable going into the post season, which is ot a good sign.
El Duque - if healthy, he's the guy you want out there in October. But at his age (34?, 38? 42? etc.) can he still do it?

Based on the above, acquiring Randy is a no brainer.

[JfromJersey]

Get used to it. The Yankees right now (and for the foreseeable future) are buyers, not sellers. Finishing at the top of the heap every year pretty much guarantees that you won't be getting much from the draft, and other teams will never trade blue chip prospects to the Yankees for overpriced veterans. Until the team goes through a bad stretch like it did a few decades back, the odds on a really good player coming up through the farm system to play for the Yankees are very slim, and even if they make it through, like a Nick Johnson, or Soriano, the odds on them remaining a Yankee are also slim.

[Pomp]

Originally posted by Irony Of It All


If Moose and Brown come back and pitch like they're capable do you think he's necessary? What if they don't? Would RJ be enough to make up for that?

If Moose and Brown return to form, I still think that Boston has a better 1-2-3 than we do (assuming they make the playoffs). Brown/Schilling is a toss-up and I take Pedro over Vaz or Moose. Plus, Wakefield has been lights-out against us in recent times. So yes, I think RJ is necessary.

However, although I am confident that Brown will return to form, I am not expecting Moose to. Moose has been getting hammered all year.
Plus, I also think trading for RJ will not only upgrade our SP, but our bullpen as well. His ability to go deep into games will give QuanGorMo more rest.

So essentially, trading prospects for Randy is like trading for 2 players. He will dramatically upgrade our SP and will also upgrade our bullpen.

If both Brown and Moose can't return to form, yes, I think RJ makes up for that too. In a 7 game series, you have to figure RJ will pitch 2-3 times. We have a very good chance of winning in those games. If we can win when RJ pitches and then scrape for a couple more wins, we can win a series.

[YankeesRuleSox]

Originally posted by Irony Of It All


Agreed. We'll probably end up trading our C, 1B, 2B, and CF of the future for someone who's either not needed or is too little anyways.

You must really think we are going to stink in a fews years. Not one of them players are in the top 30 prospects in baseball. If one makes an AS team it's luckey. We would be getting the best pitcher in baseball who has at least a year after this. I hate to give up all these prospects but you have to give something to get something. I just seen to many Yankees can't misses just miss and not of these are even close to can't miss.

PS: George S it's my birthday today I'm expecting my gift. RJ in pinstripes would do just fine.

[mbn007]

Originally posted by Pomp


If Moose and Brown return to form, I still think that Boston has a better 1-2-3 than we do (assuming they make the playoffs). Brown/Schilling is a toss-up and I take Pedro over Vaz or Moose. Plus, Wakefield has been lights-out against us in recent times. So yes, I think RJ is necessary.

I'm with you. Our previous WS victories were based upon solid pitching and timely hitting, and a lights out pen. The pen is there, especially for a short series. The hitting will be there this year, after not being there last season. The remaining area is pitching. Without Randy, we have barely enough to compete, assuming a healthy Brown and Moose (???). With Randy, we are clear favorites. Even without Moose.

[NJASDJDH]

Originally posted by YankeesRuleSox



You must really think we are going to stink in a fews years. Not one of them players are in the top 30 prospects in baseball. If one makes an AS team it's luckey. We would be getting the best pitcher in baseball who has at least a year after this. I hate to give up all these prospects but you have to give something to get something. I just seen to many Yankees can't misses just miss and not of these are even close to can't miss.

PS: George S it's my birthday today I'm expecting my gift. RJ in pinstripes would do just fine.

Honestly, I DO think the Yankees are going to stink in a few years. I just don't have confidence in the management and don't like the direction the team is headed in.

Also, not being a top 30 prospect has nothing to do with the point. The point, that I was trying to make, is that RJ is not worth dealing. You don't deal to get older especially when it's someone, in my opinion, who the team does not need. RJ is going to get 3 games, at best, in a 7 gam series, even if he wins all 3 games, if the rest of the rotation doesn't do their job, the team loses. However, if the rest of the rotation does their job, the Yankees win, if the rest of the rotation CAN do their job, then RJ is unneccesary. Were RJ at least 10 years or so younger and not coming off major knee surgery, I would feel a lot better about this deal.

Lastly, I don't know if you haven't noticed, but no one in Boston's rotation is a world beater.

[Irony Of It All]

Originally posted by YankeesRuleSox



You must really think we are going to stink in a fews years. Not one of them players are in the top 30 prospects in baseball. If one makes an AS team it's luckey. We would be getting the best pitcher in baseball who has at least a year after this. I hate to give up all these prospects but you have to give something to get something. I just seen to many Yankees can't misses just miss and not of these are even close to can't miss.

PS: George S it's my birthday today I'm expecting my gift. RJ in pinstripes would do just fine.

Considering that virtually every player on the Yankees is already past their prime, yeah I would say there's a good chance the Yankees will stink in a couple of years if they keep on trading their prospects for old and expensive players.

[mbn007]

Originally posted by Irony Of It All


Considering that virtually every player on the Yankees is already past their prime, yeah I would say there's a good chance the Yankees will stink in a couple of years if they keep on trading their prospects for old and expensive players.

The last trade of Nick Johnson for Vasquez was a fine deal. It cost us a young guy, but we acquired a young guy back. This is a rare case, and the Randy J. case is surely not like this, but it can happen.

I do not think that the Yankees will stink in a few years. I do think that some of the "A" level prospects will move up in a few years, and either make the team, or be traded for talent that will help keep us on top. The key is to keep on drafting well. I think the last 2 drafts were very promising, and if Estee Harris develops, then last years draft will have been a success.

[Irony Of It All]

Originally posted by mbn007


The last trade of Nick Johnson for Vasquez was a fine deal. It cost us a young guy, but we acquired a young guy back. This is a rare case, and the Randy J. case is surely not like this, but it can happen.

I do not think that the Yankees will stink in a few years. I do think that some of the "A" level prospects will move up in a few years, and either make the team, or be traded for talent that will help keep us on top. The key is to keep on drafting well. I think the last 2 drafts were very promising, and if Estee Harris develops, then last years draft will have been a success.

I liked the Vazquez deal as well and had no problems with it. If Johnson was 10 years younger I'd have no problem, but I don't think 15 years of Duncan is worth 2 years of Johnson.

If the Yankees don't trade all their prospects away, then I think they'll be fine.

[sugmasterflex]

Originally posted by Pomp
Prospects are developed so they can one day contribute to the major league club. However, they are also developed so they can be traded when the major league club has a big need. Yes, the Yanks have taken this to the extreme, but we currently do have a very signficant need in our starting rotation.

I want the farm to be replenished, but is anyone really confident in our rotation right now?

I have maintained that the best trade the Yanks can make is the return of a healthy Brown and Moose. Also, do what must be done to keep El Duque healthy enough to pitch three games in October. The starters would be Brown, Mussina, Vazquez, and Duque w/ Lieber on ready for long relief. If they must add somebody, then get a Tony Armas, Jr. He could probably be had for a package of Sardhina and Edwardo Sierra. If the Yanks get back Brown, Mussina, and Karsay (and looking at his progress, it seems like he may be back sometime in August), they don't need to make a trade. And I know that Karsay's health is iffy, but RJ is 41, pitching on a bad knee, and it would take the entire farm to get him here..


There is a fine line between keeping and trading prospects, the problem is that the Yanks seem to cross it everytime.

[sugmasterflex]

Originally posted by Irony Of It All


If Moose and Brown come back and pitch like they're capable do you think he's necessary? What if they don't? Would RJ be enough to make up for that?

Due to the injuries, a lot of people have forgotten how DOMINANT Brown can be.

[sugmasterflex]

Originally posted by JfromJersey
Get used to it. The Yankees right now (and for the foreseeable future) are buyers, not sellers. Finishing at the top of the heap every year pretty much guarantees that you won't be getting much from the draft, and other teams will never trade blue chip prospects to the Yankees for overpriced veterans. Until the team goes through a bad stretch like it did a few decades back, the odds on a really good player coming up through the farm system to play for the Yankees are very slim, and even if they make it through, like a Nick Johnson, or Soriano, the odds on them remaining a Yankee are also slim.

Sadly, you may be right.

[sugmasterflex]

Originally posted by mbn007


The last trade of Nick Johnson for Vasquez was a fine deal. It cost us a young guy, but we acquired a young guy back. This is a rare case, and the Randy J. case is surely not like this, but it can happen.

I do not think that the Yankees will stink in a few years. I do think that some of the "A" level prospects will move up in a few years, and either make the team, or be traded for talent that will help keep us on top. The key is to keep on drafting well. I think the last 2 drafts were very promising, and if Estee Harris develops, then last years draft will have been a success.

I would trade Harris in a heartbeat in the right deal.

Trading 20 year olds for 40 year olds will be what corrupts a team. Even if they were to trade for a young player in his late 20's, who is much more preferable than a 40 year old, the Yanks would have to pay them big time as they would trade for them near FA. They had to give Vazquez 11+ mil and if they had traded for Beltran (or signs him in FA), it would have taken a 6 year/ 14 mil per type of deal. A young player coming up through the farm can be had for cheap until FA. Plus, as experienced w/ Weaver, there is no guarantee that another player can handle the pressure of NYC. But the likes of Jeter, Bernie, Posada, etc... can. Duncan is special b/c he is "A Yankee". So is Vech. Hughes was drafted not only for his stuff, but for his make-up as well. Prospects groomed on the farm, learning what it takes to make it in NY along the way, have a much better chance of playing well in NYC.


I don't want to trade Duncan, Cano, Navarro, or Cabrera. But if I had to choose, I would hold onto Duncan and Cabrera. If I could only choose one, I would keep Duncan.


EDIT : The chances are lower that the Yanks can sign FAs *and* simultaneously have a good draft as well.

[ICEBERG18]

Originally posted by sugmasterflex



I would trade Harris in a heartbeat in the right deal.

Trading 20 year olds for 40 year olds will be what corrupts a team. Even if they were to trade for a young player in his late 20's, who is much more preferable than a 40 year old, the Yanks would have to pay them big time as they would trade for them near FA. They had to give Vazquez 11+ mil and if they had traded for Beltran (or signs him in FA), it would have taken a 6 year/ 14 mil per type of deal. A young player coming up through the farm can be had for cheap until FA. Plus, as experienced w/ Weaver, there is no guarantee that another player can handle the pressure of NYC. But the likes of Jeter, Bernie, Posada, etc... can. Duncan is special b/c he is "A Yankee". So is Vech. Hughes was drafted not only for his stuff, but for his make-up as well. Prospects groomed on the farm, learning what it takes to make it in NY along the way, have a much better chance of playing well in NYC.


I don't want to trade Duncan, Cano, Navarro, or Cabrera. But if I had to choose, I would hold onto Duncan and Cabrera. If I could only choose one, I would keep Duncan.

i don't think your going to have to worry about any of them being traded this season.

[sugmasterflex]

Originally posted by ICEBERG18


i don't think your going to have to worry about any of them being traded this season.

Hopefully not.

[mbn007]

Originally posted by sugmasterflex



I would trade Harris in a heartbeat in the right deal.



EDIT : The chances are lower that the Yanks can sign FAs *and* simultaneously have a good draft as well.

My comments regarding Harris were just to point out that the Yankees have drafted much better the past 2 years, based upon the early returns. As far as trading Harris, sure, if the right deal came along. I would trade any kid in the system for the right deal. The question is , is Randy Johnson the right deal? I think he is. I don't care about his age. I see a dominant hurler, who is often on his "A" game, and one of the best in the majors right now. For that, regardless of age, I trade from the farm system to get him. Trades like Claussen for Boone give me pause, as Claussen has/had the potential to be special. Boone is what you see-what you get.

Your final comment regarding Free Agents and the draft is not accurate. Steinbrenner has shown a tendency to spend what it takes to get Free Agents in here. Now he is concentrating on improving the draft. He reshuffled the deck with the player development personnel. The past 2 drafts were major steps in the right direction.

[sugmasterflex]

Originally posted by mbn007


My comments regarding Harris were just to point out that the Yankees have drafted much better the past 2 years, based upon the early returns. As far as trading Harris, sure, if the right deal came along. I would trade any kid in the system for the right deal. The question is , is Randy Johnson the right deal? I think he is. I don't care about his age. I see a dominant hurler, who is often on his "A" game, and one of the best in the majors right now. For that, regardless of age, I trade from the farm system to get him. Trades like Claussen for Boone give me pause, as Claussen has/had the potential to be special. Boone is what you see-what you get.

Your final comment regarding Free Agents and the draft is not accurate. Steinbrenner has shown a tendency to spend what it takes to get Free Agents in here. Now he is concentrating on improving the draft. He reshuffled the deck with the player development personnel. The past 2 drafts were major steps in the right direction.

We disagree on Johnson. Sure, he is 41 but still dominant. But he has a questionable knee. What happens if we trade the farm for him, but he gets injured shortly thereafter? Even if we throw out the age and the amount of money he makes, he is still an injury risk.


As for the draft, it is rare to sign FAs and have high draft picks. If the Yanks sign two FAs this winter, they will lose their 1st and 2nd round picks. Rarely, like last year, do they lose their own FA and get compensation (draft picks) in return. Now, I don't know what will happen w/ Leiber (compensation or not), but it is that much harder to not have high draft picks and still have a good draft.

[mbn007]

Originally posted by sugmasterflex



We disagree on Johnson. Sure, he is 41 but still dominant. But he has a questionable knee. What happens if we trade the farm for him, but he gets injured shortly thereafter? Even if we throw out the age and the amount of money he makes, he is still an injury risk.


As for the draft, it is rare to sign FAs and have high draft picks. If the Yanks sign two FAs this winter, they will lose their 1st and 2nd round picks. Rarely, like last year, do they lose their own FA and get compensation (draft picks) in return. Now, I don't know what will happen w/ Leiber (compensation or not), but it is that much harder to not have high draft picks and still have a good draft.

The key is to concentrate on picks 3-10. There is no reason to have all stinkers from picks in this range 3 years after a draft. This is where the Yanks need to improve, and the past couple of seasons they have taken steps in this direction.

[sugmasterflex]

Originally posted by mbn007


The key is to concentrate on picks 3-10. There is no reason to have all stinkers from picks in this range 3 years after a draft. This is where the Yanks need to improve, and the past couple of seasons they have taken steps in this direction.

3-10 is much more risky than 1-2. The team may have to take chances to acquire top talent in this area (example : Alex Garabaedian). And there is only a fair chance that risks will be signed by the ballclub.