Just on PTI.
Just on PTI.
Seems about right.
That's what I thought. It will be appealed to 3-4.
"He knew, as he went after that ball, that he had a decision to make," said Tony Clark, who watched the play unfold from first base. "Either you let the ball drop and try to minimize the damage, or you make the catch and pay the consequences. He knew that, no doubt about it, and he chose B."
That means 3 after the appeal. Most likely.
so, let me see if i get this.... he and the team can choose when he goes into his suspension? :rolleyes:
I got mine in blazing copper.
hmmm...this sort of pisses me off. because now he gets to appeal and play in the Yankees series. I mean, why in the name of god does it take this long to suspend the guy when the vieo evidence of what he did is pretty clear? now, I must admit that i rarely pay attention to the suspension process, so this may be a fairly normal length of time for the process, and if so, i would gladly accept this and curb my disgust, but at the same time, it seems a little BS that they wait until the DAY BEFORE one of the biggest series of the year (maybe even bigger than the last one since if the Yankees sweep it would take an almost miracle for the red sox to catch up to them) with possible big ratings for MLB to finally come down with the suspension.
Pretty convienent that it gets handed down the day before a series with the Yankees. He went crazy on Friday or Saturday. It took all this time to review the tape, talk to all parties involved. He only gets 5 games, but that is OK since he has a good reputation.
So lets say he protest's the suspension. He gets to play the series against the Yankees, than he can drop the suspension on Monday. Amazing. Something smells a little funny.
No reason to drop the appeal... it will most definately get reduced anyway. They almost always do.Originally posted by yankeegeek
Pretty convienent that it gets handed down the day before a series with the Yankees. He went crazy on Friday or Saturday. It took all this time to review the tape, talk to all parties involved. He only gets 5 games, but that is OK since he has a good reputation.
So lets say he protest's the suspension. He gets to play the series against the Yankees, than he can drop the suspension on Monday. Amazing. Something smells a little funny.
It usually takes 2-4 days for a suspension to come down, but one of the Red Sox fans said MLB offices were closed on Monday, so this may be about right. If the suspension had come about Monday, he still would've appealed and it usually takes about a week to get your hearing date & he can play in the meantime, so he would've played the Yankees series either way.
I know Ortiz kills the Yankees, but it'll be better to beat them with him playing.
"He knew, as he went after that ball, that he had a decision to make," said Tony Clark, who watched the play unfold from first base. "Either you let the ball drop and try to minimize the damage, or you make the catch and pay the consequences. He knew that, no doubt about it, and he chose B."
I guess it isn't that big of a deal to throw bats in the direction of umpires....incredible.
I thought I recall something similar happened in the past year or two where a key Yankee player was able to play in a key series after being suspended whereby the delay caused by the appeal benefitted us. It may have been after the Posada "spitting" incident or Ted Lilly throwing at Scott Spezio or something like that.
Milton Bradley simply tossed bats on the field. Ortiz shoved Terry Francona into an umpire, threw bats at umpires (clipping one), and will likely receive the same 3-4 game suspension.
We report, you decide.
Actually, Bradley threw a bag of balls on the field.Originally posted by ACPS
Milton Bradley simply tossed bats on the field. Ortiz shoved Terry Francona into an umpire, threw bats at umpires (clipping one), and will likely receive the same 3-4 game suspension.
We report, you decide.
Ortiz is clearly getting credit for his lack of a rapsheet in this area. Bradley was a multiple offender.
Sounds about right to me.
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I heard that too. He should have gotten more.
“I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.”
Of course he will appeal and will play in the Yankee series. Do you think he'll have around 3 games when all is said and done?
I want to thank the Good Lord for making me a Yankee fan.
Ortiz had his appeal yesterday, I guess they made him watch the Everett episode, the Posada incident, the O's/Red Sox brawl and the Bradley tirade during the process.
As a side note, it looks like they indicated to him that he wouldn't be suspended for his part in the Saturday melee.
http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...at_his_appeal/
I was just thinking that! So if Sheff were to throw a water cooler out of the dugout or a few bats into the infield.. that would be ok because he can just pick and choose when he wants to take his 2 or 3 days off. Rediculous!Originally posted by Serge
I guess it isn't that big of a deal to throw bats in the direction of umpires....incredible.
Jorge Posada received 6 games for bumping and spitting on an umpire. He also threw his equipment on the field. Posada also had it reduced to 5 games and followed the same path as Ortiz is by using the appeal process.Originally posted by Arod for President
I was just thinking that! So if Sheff were to throw a water cooler out of the dugout or a few bats into the infield.. that would be ok because he can just pick and choose when he wants to take his 2 or 3 days off. Rediculous!
Are you saying Ortiz is getting different treatment? That would be factually inaccurate.
Can I just make a correction? Posada spit on the umpire accidentally. Event afterwards, the umpire said as much. I just want to clarify that it wasn't an Alomar-type thing. It was a yelling his head off like a lunatic and spittle coming out thing.
Ortiz's clean record should count for something. Although he does say that "I'm helped by not having bumped the ump", he doesn't say anything about almost clipping one of them with the tossed bat. The other thing that might make people groan is the suggestion that he doesn't deserve a suspension because he apologized.
"He knew, as he went after that ball, that he had a decision to make," said Tony Clark, who watched the play unfold from first base. "Either you let the ball drop and try to minimize the damage, or you make the catch and pay the consequences. He knew that, no doubt about it, and he chose B."
Originally posted by Alex
Can I just make a correction? Posada spit on the umpire accidentally. Event afterwards, the umpire said as much. I just want to clarify that it wasn't an Alomar-type thing. It was a yelling his head off like a lunatic and spittle coming out thing.
Ortiz's clean record should count for something. Although he does say that "I'm helped by not having bumped the ump", he doesn't say anything about almost clipping one of them with the tossed bat. The other thing that might make people groan is the suggestion that he doesn't deserve a suspension because he apologized.
almost hitting the ump with the bat also was accidental. anybody watching that incident knows that he almnostcertainly wasn't trying to hit them.
5 sounds right to me.
I thought everyone knew Posada didn't do the spitting on purpose. I agree with that 100%.Originally posted by Alex
Can I just make a correction? Posada spit on the umpire accidentally. Event afterwards, the umpire said as much. I just want to clarify that it wasn't an Alomar-type thing. It was a yelling his head off like a lunatic and spittle coming out thing.
Ortiz's clean record should count for something. Although he does say that "I'm helped by not having bumped the ump", he doesn't say anything about almost clipping one of them with the tossed bat. The other thing that might make people groan is the suggestion that he doesn't deserve a suspension because he apologized.
I would also hope people would agree that Ortiz wasn't trying to hit the umpires with the bats he threw underhand. Ortiz got the suspension I expect and it's deserved. That type of behavior shouldn't be tolerated.
Originally posted by cubswin
almost hitting the ump with the bat also was accidental. anybody watching that incident knows that he almnostcertainly wasn't trying to hit them.
5 sounds right to me.
Whatever happened to taking reponsibility for ones actions? It may have been accidental, but did Ortiz even think about how he could have hurt someone by throwing bats onto a field where people were standing? Obviously he was so out of control he didn't even bother to think of the consequences. He may not have been trying to hit anyone, but that's not an excuse.
I agree that the suspension sounds about right. However, when you toss bats in the vicinity of someone (even unintentially), you know bats are dangerous, and it actually takes conscious thought to gather them up and toss them. Whereas spittle has no chance to hurt someone (except their feelings) and does not involve conscious intent.Originally posted by NDBoston
I thought everyone knew Posada didn't do the spitting on purpose. I agree with that 100%.
I would also hope people would agree that Ortiz wasn't trying to hit the umpires with the bats he threw underhand. Ortiz got the suspension I expect and it's deserved. That type of behavior shouldn't be tolerated.
I know what you're saying... it was an accident that it even got near them. But you know what? Clemens was fined $50,000 for tossing a bat recklessly even if he had no intent of hitting anyone. They basically said that it's "reckless disposal of equipment on the field" or something to that effect. Whereas Ortiz was in a rage and threw the bats on the field.
"He knew, as he went after that ball, that he had a decision to make," said Tony Clark, who watched the play unfold from first base. "Either you let the ball drop and try to minimize the damage, or you make the catch and pay the consequences. He knew that, no doubt about it, and he chose B."
was that at Piazza?Originally posted by Alex
I agree that the suspension sounds about right. However, when you toss bats in the vicinity of someone (even unintentially), you know bats are dangerous, and it actually takes conscious thought to gather them up and toss them. Whereas spittle has no chance to hurt someone (except their feelings) and does not involve conscious intent.
I know what you're saying... it was an accident that it even got near them. But you know what? Clemens was fined $50,000 for tossing a bat recklessly even if he had no intent of hitting anyone. They basically said that it's "reckless disposal of equipment on the field" or something to that effect. Whereas Ortiz was in a rage and threw the bats on the field.
Ortiz wasn't trying to hit anyone with his bats, but what he did was stupid. So he got 5 games. If he had actually hit anyone, he would have gotten more. Bradley threw bats AND balls on the field, and got the same time. I don't see the problem that people have with this suspension. He wasn't trying to hit anyone, and he didn't hit anyone. But he came close, so he gets 5 games. That is taking responsibility for his actions...EVERYONE APPEALS!
Who was making an excuse? He was suspended for 5 games and based on prior incidents, this falls right in line.Originally posted by sharoncass
Whatever happened to taking reponsibility for ones actions? It may have been accidental, but did Ortiz even think about how he could have hurt someone by throwing bats onto a field where people were standing? Obviously he was so out of control he didn't even bother to think of the consequences. He may not have been trying to hit anyone, but that's not an excuse.
What's your point?
I doubt anyone in the brawl on sunday is gonna get worse than what Ortiz got, even though pushing/punching someone in the face or putting someone in a choke hold is much worse than throwing bats onto the field and watching one take a crazy bounce and almost hit someone.
Umm... yeah! You must've been out of the country or something.Originally posted by NDBoston
was that at Piazza?
But yes, the shattered bat. He said he didn't throw it at him, that it just happened to go near him and he didn't see him running down the 1B line at first. They basically said that he was still guilty for what equates to negligence because he shouldn't be tossing bats around regardless... therefore the $50,000 fine.
"He knew, as he went after that ball, that he had a decision to make," said Tony Clark, who watched the play unfold from first base. "Either you let the ball drop and try to minimize the damage, or you make the catch and pay the consequences. He knew that, no doubt about it, and he chose B."
My point is all this crap about not meaning to hit anyone. You throw bats onto a field where people are standing and there's a good possibility that someone is going to get hit. He's just lucky no one was seriously hurt because I doubt his not meaning to hit anyone or it was an accident would go over very well. He was out of control nd didn't care what happened or who got hurt. Just because no one got hurt doesn't make it ok.Originally posted by NDBoston
Who was making an excuse? He was suspended for 5 games and based on prior incidents, this falls right in line.
What's your point?
and he got suspended 5 games for it.Originally posted by sharoncass
My point is all this crap about not meaning to hit anyone. You throw bats onto a field where people are standing and there's a good possibility that someone is going to get hit. He's just lucky no one was seriously hurt because I doubt his not meaning to hit anyone or it was an accident would go over very well. He was out of control nd didn't care what happened or who got hurt. Just because no one got hurt doesn't make it ok.
The bats bounced 3 times before getting to the umpires Sharon. Unless one of the umpires was doing handstands at homeplate, the worst case scenario would have been a bruised leg. IT dosen't make it right, but let's not make it more than it was
Originally posted by sharoncass
Whatever happened to taking reponsibility for ones actions? It may have been accidental, but did Ortiz even think about how he could have hurt someone by throwing bats onto a field where people were standing? Obviously he was so out of control he didn't even bother to think of the consequences. He may not have been trying to hit anyone, but that's not an excuse.
I don't even know what your point is here. Taking responsibility? He apologized, and he'll serve a suspension. Did he think about it at that time? I'm sure he didn't. And who's making excuses? Somebody else here mentioned Posada and his accidental spitting. I pointed out that the bats coming near -- not hitting -- the ump also was accidental. That is all. And there absolutely is a difference b/t doing somehing intentionally versus accidentally -- or do you disagree with that, also?
Originally posted by Alex
I agree that the suspension sounds about right. However, when you toss bats in the vicinity of someone (even unintentially), you know bats are dangerous, and it actually takes conscious thought to gather them up and toss them. Whereas spittle has no chance to hurt someone (except their feelings) and does not involve conscious intent...
Personally, I'd far prefer being hit in the leg by a bouncing bat to being spit in my face.
personally, me too. But that's not my point.Originally posted by cubswin
Personally, I'd far prefer being hit in the leg by a bouncing bat to being spit in my face.
"He knew, as he went after that ball, that he had a decision to make," said Tony Clark, who watched the play unfold from first base. "Either you let the ball drop and try to minimize the damage, or you make the catch and pay the consequences. He knew that, no doubt about it, and he chose B."
Originally posted by Alex
personally, me too. But that's not my point.
I think you and I mostly agree on this (and other things). I just think some people, maybe not you, try to make things sound worse than they are (throwing bats AT the umps, nearly hitting them, etc.), and spitting similarly can be made to seem more innocuous than it is.
Bottom line, imo, is Ortiz did something stupid that, in different circumstances, could have hurt somebody, and worse, that somebody could have been an ump. He lost his temper, he's getting suspended. Seems about right to me. I'd imagine that there are examples where people have done worse things and rec'd shorter penalties and where people have done more benign things and rec'd greater punishment. Imo, those are no longer relevant, since the sentence has been handed down.
cubswin - i don't think we're disagreeing at all. In fact the only reason I jumped in was to clarify that Posada spitting on an umpire sounds really horrible, but it was more inadvertent while screaming his head off, than like Alomar where he reared and hocked up a loogy right in the ump's face.
Just trying to protect my man Jorge from being lumped with the likes of him.
As for Ortiz, most people here agree that the whole incident was very uncharacteristic and I, for one, never thought he intended to hit anybody with those bats.
"He knew, as he went after that ball, that he had a decision to make," said Tony Clark, who watched the play unfold from first base. "Either you let the ball drop and try to minimize the damage, or you make the catch and pay the consequences. He knew that, no doubt about it, and he chose B."
What about throwing a guy down, and jumping on his back while another stooge punches him in the face? Or what about scratching another players face with your nails, like Schilling clearly did to Arod?Originally posted by Euclis
I doubt anyone in the brawl on sunday is gonna get worse than what Ortiz got, even though pushing/punching someone in the face or putting someone in a choke hold is much worse than throwing bats onto the field and watching one take a crazy bounce and almost hit someone.
Don't you know?Originally posted by Buzah!
What about throwing a guy down, and jumping on his back while another stooge punches him in the face? Or what about scratching another players face with your nails, like Schilling clearly did to Arod?
They were just protecting their team mates. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by Alex
cubswin - i don't think we're disagreeing at all. In fact the only reason I jumped in was to clarify that Posada spitting on an umpire sounds really horrible, but it was more inadvertent while screaming his head off, than like Alomar where he reared and hocked up a loogy right in the ump's face.
Just trying to protect my man Jorge from being lumped with the likes of him...
totally agree
If one of my teammates is in a choke-hold I'm protecting him as wellOriginally posted by sharoncass
Don't you know?
They were just protecting their team mates. :rolleyes:
You and three other people? Sturtze was protecting Bernie.Originally posted by FoulkeLore
If one of my teammates is in a choke-hold I'm protecting him as well
sharoncass, you really believe that ortiz was trying to hit an umpire with those bats? If he was, don't you think he would aim for the home plate umpire, the one who tossed him out? He threw bats onto the field, nobody was hit, he apologized, he got suspended, that's it. Nothing more to it.
Protecting Bernie from Kapler who was trying to break it up? C'mon now, do you really think that Gabe was trying to hurt someone?Originally posted by sharoncass
You and three other people? Sturtze was protecting Bernie.
You can't have it both ways. You say that Kapler was trying to "break it up" by going after Bernie, than Sturtze was trying to break it up by going after Kapler.Originally posted by FoulkeLore
Protecting Bernie from Kapler who was trying to break it up? C'mon now, do you really think that Gabe was trying to hurt someone?
Originally posted by Euclis
sharoncass, you really believe that ortiz was trying to hit an umpire with those bats? If he was, don't you think he would aim for the home plate umpire, the one who tossed him out? He threw bats onto the field, nobody was hit, he apologized, he got suspended, that's it. Nothing more to it.
Where did I say he was trying to hit an umpire? I said he showed no regard for what could have happened when he threw bats on to a field where people were standing. Did he even consider that there was a possibility that someone could have gotten hit or was he so out of control that he didn't care? He apologized after the fact. Big deal.
I'll admit that I've seen the higlights only a few times. I watched it everytime it was on but I dont have Tivo so I didn't record it and therefore study it. But I did not see Kapler "going after" Bernie. It really appeared to me that Kapler was trying to pull people off of people and where thats debatable and I very well could be wrong, it's a fact that Kapler did not have Bernie, or anyone else for that matter, in a chokehold. So as far as I'm concerned it's not having it both ways.Originally posted by sharoncass
You can't have it both ways. You say that Kapler was trying to "break it up" by going after Bernie, than Sturtze was trying to break it up by going after Kapler.
Earlier up:Where did I say he was trying to hit an umpire? I said he showed no regard for what could have happened when he threw bats on to a field where people were standing. Did he even consider that there was a possibility that someone could have gotten hit or was he so out of control that he didn't care? He apologized after the fact. Big deal.
You doubt his meaning not to hit anyone? ok. And how would you have him take responsibility? He apologized, and he was punished. What else do you think he should do? He doesn't have a history of this sort of thing, so you don't have any reason to think his apology isn't sincere.He's just lucky no one was seriously hurt because I doubt his not meaning to hit anyone or it was an accident would go over very well.
Kapler grabbed Bernie around the waist, Sturtze grabbed Kapler around the neck. Thats the difference between choking someone and simply pulling someone away. That's a pretty big difference, and thats why Sturtze drew the attention of Ortiz and Nixon. Everyone around Arod and Varitek was pushing or pulling on someone, but Sturtze's chokehold was on another level all together.You can't have it both ways. You say that Kapler was trying to "break it up" by going after Bernie, than Sturtze was trying to break it up by going after Kapler.
According to a blip in the game Yankees/O's game coverage on ESPN's site, Ortiz dropped his appeal and began serving his supsension today. One game against Minny, the others will be against the Drays and Tigers.
I wonder what compelled him to drop the appeal now?Originally posted by melman
According to a blip in the game Yankees/O's game coverage on ESPN's site, Ortiz dropped his appeal and began serving his supsension today. One game against Minny, the others will be against the Drays and Tigers.
So he wouldn't have to face Santana today. You drop the appeal basically whenver you want to start your suspension.
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