No-mah ain't Bett-ah!

[Greg]

If last season's playoffs didn't prove it, then recent play certainly has. Nomar Garciaparra is but a shadow of his former self, and Derek Jeter is playing like he always does - with drive, leadership, and verve. Not to mention great talent and a masterful understanding of the game.

Makes all the Jeter - Garciapara comparisons seem rather pointless now, doesn't it?

[25Giambi25]

Nomar has made a lot of costly errors since he has been back...three in the last two days!

However, Nomar is definitely of the same caliber SS as Derek. This is basically his Spring Training. I'm guessing that he'll come around and play a lot better after the All-Star Break.

I still like Jeter better than Nomar (probably Yankee bias) but I'm not judging this on the last couple of weeks of baseball.

[YanksFan#43]

I like Nomar as a player. But he's just left off from last September. He looks lost at SS and uncomfortable behind the plate.
I do think he's still an elite shortstop, but he's not what he used to be. Boston isn't making things better for him: Nomar takes a beating in the press, fans are down on him and now more trade rumors swirling around. Nomar's gone. He knows it. Hard for him to play when he's thinking about what is going to happen to him tommorow.

That said, I like Jeter better (YES, Yankee bias)--Jeter's D is fine, though not iron clad; his bat is hot right now, and more than anything, he's tough. He didn't cave under his big slump early in the season. He always battles through.

[Nome]

Nomar needs time to recover from his honeymoon with Mia.

Andy

[Arod for President]

I honestly think Nomar has begun to decline ever since he injured his wrist about 2 years ago.. That imjury sidelined him for about 1/2 the season and his power numbers have been down ever since then! Jeter is stronger than ever. Nomar was once the better SS but no more.

[JeffWeaverFan]

Originally posted by Arod for President
I honestly think Nomar has begun to decline ever since he injured his wrist about 2 years ago.. That imjury sidelined him for about 1/2 the season and his power numbers have been down ever since then! Jeter is stronger than ever. Nomar was once the better SS but no more.

Agreed. And the stats indicate he isn't the same player ever since that injury.

[jpao89]

The fact that the Red Sox bent over in pretzels to try and trade him also could not help Nomah any. He can say all he wants to about staying in Beantown, but come offseason, this guy is outta there.

[19laura]

Nomar takes a beating in the press, fans are down on him and now more trade rumors swirling around. Nomar's gone. He knows it. Hard for him to play when he's thinking about what is going to happen to him tommorow.

You are correct with everything you wrote but in my opinion, that is no excuse to not (dare, I say) "cowboy up". While I am sure it's much easier said then done, I would think he'd want to play better, despite his feelings regarding Boston, because it only makes him more lucrative to other teams, which I'm sure is something he would want. I've always liked Nomar, but I feel he has disappointed some of his fans with his recent behavior and they now have come to resent him more than feel sorry for his situation.

Laura

[Jersey Yankee]

Anybody notice that Nomah went 0-fer-4 yesterday? All I can say is that while I like him, come crunch time, the tough git goin' and Nomah didn't do that.

Since he's the top-rated farmhand, I would think that there'd be no doubts that Pokey would've at least done a better job. Right now, lots of plays, Pokey could've had them.

With this .235 BA, I'll agree that this is his ST. However, when Jeter had a Godawful beginning, at least he didn't make E6 after E6 in consecutive games.

Unless he stops throwing the ball wide and picks up his offensive numbers considerably, I can't consider him elite right now. In fact, in a deciding game, I'd presently much rather have Pokey in there, to at least avert the booted misplays.

[penfold]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
With this .235 BA, I'll agree that this is his ST. However, when Jeter had a Godawful beginning, at least he didn't make E6 after E6 in consecutive games.

Not to be an apologist for Nomar but Jeter's awful slump came at a time when there was relatively little pressure on the Yanks. It was the beginning of the season and Posada was carrying the team.

Nomar's spring training is happening right in the midst of a (for the Sox) tight race, right before the All-Star break and his team hasn't done much to help him out. First, they wanted to trade him and second, the level of play around him hasn't exactly bailed him out.

It's a tough situation for Nomar.

[cubswin]

This is some pretty ridiculous stuff. The guy's been back for maybe 15 games? Look how Jeter was doing in mid June and how he's doing now, and think for a moment.

(And btw, for those of you who are commenting re Nomar at the plate, I'm assuming you haven;t seen every one of his ABs since returning. His numbers are not good, and yes, last night he went 0-4. Maybe you failed to notice last night that he actually hit 3 or 4 balls very well. He has generally been hitting the ball well, just not getting many breaks.)

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
Anybody notice that Nomah went 0-fer-4 yesterday? All I can say is that while I like him, come crunch time, the tough git goin' and Nomah didn't do that...

ARod, Bernie and Posada had a combined bagel last night. ANd you know what? That's meaningless.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by penfold
Not to be an apologist for Nomar but Jeter's awful slump came at a time when there was relatively little pressure on the Yanks. It was the beginning of the season and Posada was carrying the team.

Nomar's spring training is happening right in the midst of a (for the Sox) tight race, right before the All-Star break and his team hasn't done much to help him out. First, they wanted to trade him and second, the level of play around him hasn't exactly bailed him out.

It's a tough situation for Nomar.

I have no problem accepting your points. However, I still can't understand how one's defense takes a slump? Batting, such as chasing stuff hitting the dirt, I can understand, but why the frequent boots?

I can see what you're saying about more pressure, but Jeter still played Boston during a slump. That same series, many Boston fans referred to as them beating the Yanks 6-1.

As to Posada carrying the team, well, what's Ortiz doing right now? Last season, coming off a separated shoulder, Jeter went right back into the thick of things, didn't boot tons (AFAIK), and calmed those who'd seen the SS pretenders booting the ball & GIDP'd out there.

For trades, I can understand that. Heck, it wasn't like they'd wanted a bag of day-old donuts in return (Maggs & A-Rod are top stuff), but I can reason *SOMEWHAT* w/his reaction of them wanting to trade him. However, had he accepted that $60m/4 yr offer, that would never have happened.

As to the level of play around him, hey, guess who's made most of those boots?

(this changes daily)

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...iven_the_boot/

Ortiz also factored in an error by Nomar Garciaparra that contributed to the Yankees scoring the decisive run. Ortiz was unable to handle the shortstop's throw on a ground single by Kenny Lofton leading off the bottom of the eighth inning. Garciaparra's miscue, his third in the series, allowed Lofton to reach second.

"It's a play I know I've made in the past, where you go deep to the right," Garciaparra said. "I just threw it over and tried to make a play and it didn't work out."

It's the sloppy play, tons of LOBs, lust f/OBP but not getting those guys home which kill them. Since he was expected to contribute to curing this, I have no idea why his mates are expected to do this. He came back, he was expected to offer a positive impact. He's not doing so.

Yeah, it's tough. So long as he expects to be considered an elite SS, he should demonstrate what he can do on the field. He does this, what his mates, fans, media, boogeyman, Mia or whoever won't really factor into this much, AFAIK.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by cubswin
ARod, Bernie and Posada had a combined bagel last night. ANd you know what? That's meaningless.

How many boots in 3 days do those 3 have? When you make 3 boots in 2 days, go 0-for-4 in the 2nd day, I think that's significant.

Besides, this thread is about Nomah, not Alex, Bernie or Jorge.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by cubswin
This is some pretty ridiculous stuff. The guy's been back for maybe 15 games? Look how Jeter was doing in mid June and how he's doing now, and think for a moment.

(And btw, for those of you who are commenting re Nomar at the plate, I'm assuming you haven;t seen every one of his ABs since returning. His numbers are not good, and yes, last night he went 0-4. Maybe you failed to notice last night that he actually hit 3 or 4 balls very well. He has generally been hitting the ball well, just not getting many breaks.)

What about the boots? Did Jeter make tons of boots earlier this season? Nomah's miscues have been a big factor in these last two Boston losses.

Like I indicated (but didn't say directly), 0-for-4 I can forgive, but all those boots shouldn't come from someone who's supposed to be "elite". If he makes any more boots in today's (Thursday's) game, I think that should speak f/itself, regardless of what he does at the plate.

[penfold]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
I have no problem accepting your points. However, I still can't understand how one's defense takes a slump? Batting, such as chasing stuff hitting the dirt, I can understand, but why the frequent boots?

Yeah, I know he's an elite athlete and all but haven't you ever just had one of those days? Which seems to turn into one of those months? If you haven't, I envy you.

Part of it could just be that, in his heart of hearts, he doesn't want to put his all-out into playing for the Sox any more. That would certainly help explain things. But I don't know Nomar well enough to figure out exactly why he's got the yips now. For his sake, I hope he doesn't turn into a latter-day Chuck Knoblauch (and I liked Chuck, too!)

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
What about the boots? Did Jeter make tons of boots earlier this season? Nomah's miscues have been a big factor in these last two Boston losses.

Like I indicated (but didn't say directly), 0-for-4 I can forgive, but all those boots shouldn't come from someone who's supposed to be "elite". If he makes any more boots in today's (Thursday's) game, I think that should speak f/itself, regardless of what he does at the plate.

You're the one who made a comment about going 0-4 as meaning he doesn't show up in crunch time. And my comment wasn't about those 3 Yankees per se -- it was illustrating that 1 gamne does not reflect a player's value or capabilities. (I think I made this clear in my post: "...That's meaningless.")

Tonight's game won't determine anything, either, except how he's playing right now. Talk to me at the end of the year.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by penfold
Yeah, I know he's an elite athlete and all but haven't you ever just had one of those days? Which seems to turn into one of those months? If you haven't, I envy you.

Part of it could just be that, in his heart of hearts, he doesn't want to put his all-out into playing for the Sox any more. That would certainly help explain things. But I don't know Nomar well enough to figure out exactly why he's got the yips now. For his sake, I hope he doesn't turn into a latter-day Chuck Knoblauch (and I liked Chuck, too!)

So an important series like this, he can make errors and he gets a free pass? Why all the buildup about this series then if he can just do whatever?

If he doesn't want to play, then I think he's in big trouble. Being unable to figure something out is forgiven. Just not wanting to do it, I can't see any justification in this.

I think Mantle's dad told him to come on home, since he didn't have it in him to be a ballplayer. Mickey took that and determined he was going to tough it out. I'm not saying that Nomah has to be Mickey, but I still expect him to be playing well.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by cubswin
You're the one who made a comment about going 0-4 as meaning he doesn't show up in crunch time. And my comment wasn't about those 3 Yankees per se -- it was illustrating that 1 gamne does not reflect a player's value or capabilities. (I think I made this clear in my post: "...That's meaningless.")

Tonight's game won't determine anything, either, except how he's playing right now. Talk to me at the end of the year.

Me thinks that his 3 boots in only 2 days (both of which factored heavily into this loss) *PLUS* yesterday's 0-for-4 showed me he didn't really show up.

As to those three Yanks, can you please name one who's 0-fer hurt the Yanks? Even the Boston Globe mentioned Nomah's boots as factoring into the loss.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...iven_the_boot/

This thread was about the last two games, since that's all we have to go by. If he manages to redeem himself, I'll give him credit. However, if he boots another play which factors into a loss, I think that should speak f/itself as to his recent play. It's not like I can discuss his future or past play, so current play seems fine by me.

I guess I'll have to wait until late September before making comments about Nomah? I guess nobody should dare criticize him until then, huh? Interesting. I guess if he has an awesome series, we'll also have to wait until late September before posting an opinion on him?

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
So an important series like this, he can make errors and he gets a free pass? Why all the buildup about this series then if he can just do whatever?

If he doesn't want to play, then I think he's in big trouble. Being unable to figure something out is forgiven. Just not wanting to do it, I can't see any justification in this.

I think Mantle's dad told him to come on home, since he didn't have it in him to be a ballplayer. Mickey took that and determined he was going to tough it out. I'm not saying that Nomah has to be Mickey, but I still expect him to be playing well.

I didn't say a free pass. All I'm saying, and I think it's pretty simple, is that no player can be judged on 15, let alone 2, games. If hits GW HRs tonight and in each game of the next series, is he suddenly the best player in the game? Was Jeter a terrible player in April, whn he was awful against the SOx? Is he now the best player in history b/c he has put up great June #s?

All you can say about Nomar right now is that he isn't playing well.

[penfold]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
So an important series like this, he can make errors and he gets a free pass? Why all the buildup about this series then if he can just do whatever?

Baseball's a game of failure. The best hitters can only get on base 1 out of every 3 times. Those errors go on the back of Nomar's baseball card. He doesn't get a free pass. He also doesn't deserve to get a new one ripped for him just because he committed those errors. If he continues to suck as badly as he does now (which I doubt), he'll end up as the discount SS on the Tigers or D-Rays and then be out of baseball in a couple years.

Perspective: Soriano's a wonderful player. But didn't you always think that it was an adventure any time a ball was hit toward second?

It's Nomar's spring training; therefore, I'm not going to rag on him for his errors or for his B.A. If he still sucks in September, then I'll hope that the Yanks or the Dodgers can sign him in the off-season for a discount rate.

[WakefieldsCrewSox]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
What about the boots? Did Jeter make tons of boots earlier this season? Nomah's miscues have been a big factor in these last two Boston losses.

.

He absolutely did during the first Boston series, yes, not to mention going 0-fer.

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
... Even the Boston Globe mentioned Nomah's boots as factoring into the loss....

This thread was about the last two games, since that's all we have to go by.

I guess I'll have to wait until late September before making an analysis of Nomah? I guess nobody should dare criticize him until then, huh? Interesting.

Of course they factored into the loss. Did I ever question that?

This thread is not about the alst 2 games, and it is not "all we have to go by."

Nothing wrong w/critiquing/analyzing, but that's not all you did. You were trying to assess his status among the league's "elite." Does the elite change game to game? Week to week? Sorry, I don;t have the same knee-jerk type response many fans do. Maybe you and I just differ that way.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by cubswin
I didn't say a free pass. All I'm saying, and I think it's pretty simple, is that no player can be judged on 15, let alone 2, games. If hits GW HRs tonight and in each game of the next series, is he suddenly the best player in the game? Was Jeter a terrible player in April, whn he was awful against the SOx? Is he now the best player in history b/c he has put up great June #s?

All you can say about Nomar right now is that he isn't playing well.

OK, I'll give him some more leniency, but only on the offense. Like I'd mentioned before, defensive miscues I personally find inexcusable. I'm not changing that.

As I'd already made clear, it wasn't the 0-fer, but the boots I was more concerned with.

If he continues with this, he shouldn't expect much leniency, and I don't think I need to wait until the end of the season before having an opinion on this.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by cubswin
Of course they factored into the loss. Did I ever question that?

This thread is not about the alst 2 games, and it is not "all we have to go by."

Nothing wrong w/critiquing/analyzing, but that's not all you did. You were trying to assess his status among the league's "elite." Does the elite change game to game? Week to week? Sorry, I don;t have the same knee-jerk type response many fans do. Maybe you and I just differ that way.

Oh please, you and this putting yourself about Yankee fans is getting old. I'm used to this by now.

I wasn't being knee-jerk. I just called 'em as I saw 'em and he definitely needs to play much better than this. Had he played better this series, then this thread likely wouldn't have been created. Check the thread's title for a mild hint. That's all I'm saying.

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
...I don't think I need to wait until the end of the season before having an opinion on this.

have whatever opionion you want -- it's your right to do so

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
Oh please, you and this putting yourself about Yankee fans is getting old. I'm used to this by now.

I wasn't being knee-jerk. I just called 'em as I saw 'em and he definitely needs to play much better than this. Had he played better this series, then this thread likely wouldn't have been created. Check the thread's title for a mild hint. That's all I'm saying.

I assume you mean "above"? This isn't being above Yankee fans, so don't get so defensive. There are knee-jerk fans of all teams -- in fact, it's part of the reason I don't post on Sox boards: I got tired of reading threads about how somebody needs to be traded or traded for b/c a player had a bad game. If that's your approach, fine -- don't care -- post your theory on Nomar's status in the game after every fielding opportunity and every AB -- hell, every pitch, if you want.

But you're right about 1 thing, w/o question: he absolutely does need to play better.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by WakefieldsCrewSox
He absolutely did during the first Boston series, yes, not to mention going 0-fer.

Hmmmm, let's see:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gameLog?gameId=240416102
Fri, 4/16: Jeter's 1 boot in the game (1st inning) leads to 1 run. Inning ends on the next play. Final score was 6-2. I don't believe that this factored into the game, due to the eventual 4-run deficit.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gameLo...fresh=0&full=0
Sat, 4/17: Jeter's 1 boot in the game (3rd inning) leads to 1 run. Eventual score was 5-2, so the Yanks would've lost anyway.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/scoreboard?date=20040418
Sun, 4/18: NY makes no errors.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gameLo...fresh=0&full=0
Mon, 4/19: site doesn't show who made NY's error, but none are credited w/any Boston runs scoring.

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
Hmmmm, let's see:
... site doesn't show who made NY's error, but none are credited w/any Boston runs scoring.

So, the error is OK, as long as your teammates make up for it or you lose badly enough that it doesn't matter?

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by cubswin
I assume you mean "above"? This isn't being above Yankee fans, so don't get so defensive. There are knee-jerk fans of all teams -- in fact, it's part of the reason I don't post on Sox boards: I got tired of reading threads about how somebody needs to be traded or traded for b/c a player had a bad game. If that's your approach, fine -- don't care -- post your theory on Nomar's status in the game after every fielding opportunity and every AB -- hell, every pitch, if you want.

But you're right about 1 thing, w/o question: he absolutely does need to play better.

Yes, I'd mistyped, should't used "above" instead of "about". Happens.

Actually, I have seen that attitude from yourself before. That and the "if you wish to think that, it's OK" or something to that effect. Hey, like you said to me, post as you feel.

So you don't post on Sox boards but you come here? I must know about 8 Sox boards but haven't joined them due to anything I've read here re who wishes to be traded. We get lots of that also but it doesn't bother me.

I don't remember having posted after every AB (or every pitch, f/that matter) by Boston players, so let's not exagerrate from the truth too much.

At least we agree that he needs to play much better -- especially his fielding.

Regardless of how soon he's been brought off the DL, if playing against the Yanks isn't "crunch time", then I haven't the faintest idea what exactly is.

[hugelongtermdeal]

Originally posted by JeffWeaverFan

Agreed. And the stats indicate he isn't the same player ever since that injury.

Over the past two years this is true, but they are still better than Jeter's. Also, he is better defensively by every measure (except for intangibles, or course).

I think we might want to give Nomar a few more games before we pronounce him DOA.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by cubswin
So, the error is OK, as long as your teammates make up for it or you lose badly enough that it doesn't matter?

No. Errors happen and sometimes runs score. However, in a very tight game, I'd say that if errors lead to runs which put the game out of hand, then it's far more unacceptable.

If a player makes an error and no runs score, that's ideal. If an error which doesn't factor into the game (that in itself is debatable), then it's not as bad.

In Tuesday's game, a Nomah error was followed by Sheffield hitting a 3-run HR. *THAT*, IMO, put the game out of hand, since it was a close game at that time.

That's what I'm saying, and holding both SS's to the same standard.

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
...Actually, I have seen that attitude from yourself before. ...

So you don't post on Sox boards but you come here? I must know about 8 Sox boards but haven't joined them due to anything I've read here re who wishes to be traded. We get lots of that also but it doesn't bother me.

I don't remember having posted after every AB (or every pitch, f/that matter) by Boston players, so let's not exagerrate from the truth too much.

At least we agree that he needs to play much better -- especially his field..

"attitude" -- I can't speak directly to this, since there is no specifics, but I have posted previosuly that I think many fans take the game too personally and that many are too knee-jerk. I don't think I'm "better" than those fans, but I do think I'm more reasonable.

that's right re. Sox boards -- I no longer post on any -- I used to post on one and lurk in SOSH regularly, but, yes, part of the reason I have stopped is that it got old hearing knee-jerk reactions after a bad bame -- be it firings, hirings, trades, x player sucks, etc. Many people -- there, here, everywhere -- have a view of things that I think is immature. I don't mind it here if people want to bash Giambi after a bad game, b/c I don't care about Giambi and simply won't read the thread. (There are other reasons I don't go to those boards anymore, also -- part of it is the converse: I don't get much out of patting eachother on the back b/c of a good game or series.) The good thing here is that there are a lot of good fans with differing viewpoints, which often leads to good baseball (and other) conversations.

I wasn't saying that you do post after every AB. I was saying that you can feel free to do so re. Nomar. I won't comment any more. We have different views of how to evaluate players. So be it.

[RedGlare]

Nomar will come around for the same reason Jeter came out of his slump: he's too good not too.

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
No. Errors happen and sometimes runs score. However, in a very tight game, I'd say that if errors lead to runs which put the game out of hand, then it's far more unacceptable.

If a player makes an error and no runs score, that's ideal. If an error which doesn't factor into the game (that in itself is debatable), then it's not as bad.

In Tuesday's game, a Nomah error was followed by Sheffield hitting a 3-run HR. *THAT*, IMO, put the game out of hand, since it was a close game at that time.

Jeter made 3 errors in the 1st 7 games against the Sox, including 1 each in the first 2 games.

in game 1, his error was in the 1st inning, down 3-0, and led to a 4th run scoring. It's easy to say it didn't matter b/c they lost by more than 1, but in the first inning of the first game, you don't want to give up any additional runs.

game 2, they were down 2-0 in the 3rd, and his error did lead to a run, making it 3-0.

his 3rd error came in the 5th inning of a 2-0 game and did not lead to any runs.

I hear what you're saying re impact, and yes, Nomar's may have had more impact, but by your very rationale it may not have, since they lost 11-3 anyway. Personally, I do think it was costly, b/c I do think it deflated the Sox and Lowe. However, by the same token, I think both of Jeter's errors in the first series were costly, even if they did not lose the game. And, re. "clutch," an error in a 2-0 game after already losing 4 of 5 is not very clutch. So I don't think Jeter's fielding performance in those games can be held out as an example of how to pick up one's game when struggling but playing a rival. (And don't take this the wrong way: just like I think it's silly to make statements re. Nomar's overall status as a player based on this performance, I think doing so re Jeter at that time similarly would have been wrong; in both cases, however, it's fair to say they are/were (resp.) playing poorly.)

[Bluesexy's daddy]

Right now it's a 15 game bad stretch for Nomar. We will have to see what happens between now and october but he seems to have sliped a bit since his wrist injury.

If a GM had to pick between Jeter or Nomar today he likely would pick Jeter. I certainly would. My guess is that Nomar will improve during the second half of the season but will not rise to his old caliber of play. That's just my semi-educated guess based on what he has done since his injury. Time will tell.

[RedGlare]

On NESNs sports desk (whatever its called) the host guy (dont watch much) said:
When A-Rod was coming to the Sox Nomar had to go.
When A-Rod went to the Yankees there was no thought of moving Jeter and it had little to do with the fact that the Yankees could afford both.

[cubswin]

Originally posted by RedGlare
On NESNs sports desk (whatever its called) the host guy (dont watch much) said:
When A-Rod was coming to the Sox Nomar had to go.
When A-Rod went to the Yankees there was no thought of moving Jeter and it had little to do with the fact that the Yankees could afford both.

The Sox could not afford both, and Nomar appeared to be leaving at the end of the season, having spurned multiple offers (reportedly).

Personally, if I'm starting a team, I'd take ARod in a heartbeat over Nomar, and Nomar over Jeter.

[Alex]

Nomar's a great player and I think he's just going through a hitting/fielding slump due to the rust. But is it also possible that the pressure of these types of games just gets to him? I was just thinking back at some rather big errors that Nomar committed in the '99 postseason.

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Alex
Nomar's a great player and I think he's just going through a hitting/fielding slump due to the rust. But is it also possible that the pressure of these types of games just gets to him? I was just thinking back at some rather big errors that Nomar committed in the '99 postseason.

Possible? Sure. I don't think so, though.

[B in ALB]

Originally posted by cubswin



The Sox could not afford both, and Nomar appeared to be leaving at the end of the season, having spurned multiple offers (reportedly).

Personally, if I'm starting a team, I'd take ARod in a heartbeat over Nomar, and Nomar over Jeter.

Didn't it come down to $3million a season or something? I would think the Sawks could've dug up $3million for ARod - think of the cash in endorsements alone. Hell, charge another $30 for the Monster seats - people would pay more just to see ARod man 3rd in Fenway.

[cubswin]

Originally posted by B in ALB


Didn't it come down to $3million a season or something? I would think the Sawks could've dug up $3million for ARod - think of the cash in endorsements alone. Hell, charge another $30 for the Monster seats - people would pay more just to see ARod man 3rd in Fenway.

I think so. "Afford" is probably the wrong term. They clearly had a line set in their negotiations, as they needed to do. (Otherwise, you can get incrementalized to death, as almost any decision can be justified at the margin.)

I agree that they should have used both, with Mueller at 2B, were they to trade Manny.

That said, I prefer having Manny and Nomar.

[RedGlare]

I feel bad for Nomar. He is a great player that is drving a wedge between himself and his team. Where was he tonight? As Kaat said pregame: "With a game this important to your team up, you better have broken bones not to play."

Jeter on the other hand made another makes another play that will never have a stat recorded to it. I'm sure in some future date this Jeter/Nomar thing will pop up again and some redsox fan will scoff at the idea of "intangibles." So pick Nomar over Jeter if you want good numbers, but pick Jeter if you want to win.

[Mattpat11]

That game killed any respect I had for Nomar.

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Mattpat11
That game killed any respect I had for Nomar.

My guess your lack of respect won;t worry him.

[Mattpat11]

Originally posted by cubswin



My guess your lack of respect won;t worry him.

I would hope it kills everybody's respect. What a selfish little punk he was tonight. Your team is playing one of the greatest regular season games ever, and not only do you not play at all, but you sulk the whole time?

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Mattpat11
I would hope it kills everybody's respect. What a selfish little punk he was tonight. Your team is playing one of the greatest regular season games ever, and not only do you not play at all, but you sulk the whole time?

How do you have any idea what was going on? I try not to condemn people, including players, w/o some facts.

[Alex]

Originally posted by cubswin



How do you have any idea what was going on? I try not to condemn people, including players, w/o some facts.

I agree. Ask Francona why Nomar wasn't playing. It's not like Nomar begged out.

[djhitman01]

At the end of the game every redsox player was on the top step of the duggout. Nomar was just sitting there like he had an attitude. It doesn't take a brainiac to figure out Nomar is still tremendously pissed about what happened this past off season, and if Manny ramirez wasn't so retarded he'd be pissed too.

[RedGlare]

Originally posted by djhitman01
At the end of the game every redsox player was on the top step of the duggout. Nomar was just sitting there like he had an attitude. It doesn't take a brainiac to figure out Nomar is still tremendously pissed about what happened this past off season, and if Manny ramirez wasn't so retarded he'd be pissed too.

Manny would be very very pissed if he didn't know he was still going to be paid his $20 for the next 4 some years.