Look at Mike Piazza trying to play 1B. It's not nearly as easy a position as it looks and more important than it's given credit for. And, Mickey, Aaron and Mays all struggled when they moved from the OF to 1B.
Look at Mike Piazza trying to play 1B. It's not nearly as easy a position as it looks and more important than it's given credit for. And, Mickey, Aaron and Mays all struggled when they moved from the OF to 1B.
I think 1st Base defense is important. You have to be a good fielder to save a lot of bad throws from other Infielders. The 1st Basemen can make everyone else look better by scooping out a number of bad throws. You also need a good fielder at every position late in a close game. We have seen Piazza miss a few plays late in the game with balls getting by him. Piazza is not comfortable at 1st right now and it does not help when the rest of the IF defense can't throw the ball like Kaz Matsui. . .Originally posted by BobbyMurcerFan
Look at Mike Piazza trying to play 1B. It's not nearly as easy a position as it looks and more important than it's given credit for. And, Mickey, Aaron and Mays all struggled when they moved from the OF to 1B.
Piazza is now out of his element at 1st, and he was "done" as an effective catcher. He now more and more looks like a DH but unfortunately for him he is in the National League.
-Triple G
I agree that first base defense is often overlooked yet very important.
We've seen a clear example of this with Tony Clark. Have you seen how adept he is at catching balls on short hops? Additionally, his length allows him to reach balls shorter players woudln't be able to reach.
I always wondered why people looked down on 1st base defense. Doesn't the 1st baseman cover as much area as the 3rd baseman? Then receive all infield throws on top of that, as well as pitcher pickoffs?
And the 1st-ss-1st double play can be the most difficult.
Palmer killed Billy Mays
I agree, except that accurately getting off that long throw from 3rd in time places a lot of demands on the third baseman. But no doubt, a screamer down the first base line is no easier to catch than one down the third base line. One becomes a highlight on ESPN, the other doesn't. And the double plays, bad throws, etc., first is no joke.Originally posted by NYYFAN
I always wondered why people looked down on 1st base defense. Doesn't the 1st baseman cover as much area as the 3rd baseman? Then receive all infield throws on top of that, as well as pitcher pickoffs?
And the 1st-ss-1st double play can be the most difficult.
Because the majority of hitters are right handed, a 3rd Baseman will get more hard hit balls during the course of a typical game than a 1st Baseman. Plus the 3rd Baseman has to field the ball cleanly, & make a strong throw all the way across the diamond. That is why a 3rd Baseman is typically viewed as a better athlete than a 1st Baseman. But that doesn't mean that anyone can play 1B. It's still a challenging position in it's own right.
Never left the Betances bandwagon.
And the argument can be said that the first baseman has to deal with all the throws than the 3rd baseman doesn't have to deal with...Originally posted by NelsonMuntz
Because the majority of hitters are right handed, a 3rd Baseman will get more hard hit balls during the course of a typical game than a 1st Baseman. Plus the 3rd Baseman has to field the ball cleanly, & make a strong throw all the way across the diamond. That is why a 3rd Baseman is typically viewed as a better athlete than a 1st Baseman. But that doesn't mean that anyone can play 1B. It's still a challenging position in it's own right.
Palmer killed Billy Mays
I think that the types of throws a 1st Baseman has to make tend to be more difficult, however in the course of a typical game a 3rd Baseman has to make a lot more throws than a 1st Baseman. And actually some of them are very tricky, like the soft roller that has to be fielded and thrown all in one motion.Originally posted by NYYFAN
And the argument can be said that the first baseman has to deal with all the throws than the 3rd baseman doesn't have to deal with...
Never left the Betances bandwagon.
It's easier to catch a ball than it is to have to rush a long throw like the one from 3rd to 1st. First base is clearly the "easiest" infield position, and requires the least athleticism. Not that you don't need good defense at first, but it's just a different kind of infield position. A good arm isn't necessary, nor is great range, as long as you can catch the ball well.Originally posted by NYYFAN
And the argument can be said that the first baseman has to deal with all the throws than the 3rd baseman doesn't have to deal with...
Catching throws that are off line and in the dirt are a skill also. A higher percentage of plays go to first base than to 3rd base. I rate them about equal in importance...Originally posted by bakntime
It's easier to catch a ball than it is to have to rush a long throw like the one from 3rd to 1st. First base is clearly the "easiest" infield position, and requires the least athleticism. Not that you don't need good defense at first, but it's just a different kind of infield position. A good arm isn't necessary, nor is great range, as long as you can catch the ball well.
Palmer killed Billy Mays
Oh, most definitely a skill, and a necessary one to play good first base. My point is that 1st base is quite different from the other infield positions, where catching throws is the most important skill, while at the other positions you need a wider range of talents and abilities to be considered "good."Originally posted by NYYFAN
Catching throws that are off line and in the dirt are a skill also. A higher percentage of plays go to first base than to 3rd base. I rate them about equal in importance...
Other than throwing, what other skills does a 3rd basemen need, that a first baseman dosen't need?Originally posted by bakntime
Oh, most definitely a skill, and a necessary one to play good first base. My point is that 1st base is quite different from the other infield positions, where catching throws is the most important skill, while at the other positions you need a wider range of talents and abilities to be considered "good."
Palmer killed Billy Mays
I'm ALL FOR 1B defense, but throwing from third includes a lot. So saying "other than throwing" is kind of like saying to a ballerina, "other than balancing on your toes what's so hard about what you do?"Originally posted by NYYFAN
Other than throwing, what other skills does a 3rd basemen need, that a first baseman dosen't need?
As you know, throwing from 3B requires:
1) Strong arm.
2) Quick release.
3) Accurate throw.
4) Ability to charge the ball.
5) Ability to barehand the ball off the turf and throw in one fluid motion.
6) Ability to position one's self when charging the ball.
7) Ability to field bunts VERY well.
It's all about speed at 3B b/c you have to get to the ball quickly and get rid of it fast--throwing it across the diamond. At the ML level, w/ guys like Ichiro charging out of the box, that's really, really hard.
Jeter talks in his book how from SS he was late getting rid of the ball; Donnie took him aside and said "No more bang-bang plays at first, I need the ball to beat the runner by more time." This was a challenge for Jeter. From 3B it's obviously even harder.
First basemen need to do some of those as well. Third basemen don't have to catch every throw from the infield. Don't have to do the pick off play. Have a harder throw on a DP.Originally posted by BobbyMurcerFan
I'm ALL FOR 1B defense, but throwing from third includes a lot. So saying "other than throwing" is kind of like saying to a ballerina, "other than balancing on your toes what's so hard about what you do?"
As you know, throwing from 3B requires:
1) Strong arm.
2) Quick release.
3) Accurate throw.
4) Ability to charge the ball.
5) Ability to barehand the ball off the turf and throw in one fluid motion.
6) Ability to position one's self when charging the ball.
7) Ability to field bunts VERY well.
It's all about speed at 3B b/c you have to get to the ball quickly and get rid of it fast--throwing it across the diamond. At the ML level, w/ guys like Ichiro charging out of the box, that's really, really hard.
Jeter talks in his book how from SS he was late getting rid of the ball; Donnie took him aside and said "No more bang-bang plays at first, I need the ball to beat the runner by more time." This was a challenge for Jeter. From 3B it's obviously even harder.
I believe 3rd base is harder to play from another position. But has no less value to the team...
Palmer killed Billy Mays
There's a reason 3rd base is called the "hot corner" and not 1st... There are simply more right handed hitters than left handed hitters, and when players hit hard ground balls, they tend to be pulled harder than they are hit to the other side. Therefore, more fielding opportunities at 3rd.Originally posted by NYYFAN
Other than throwing, what other skills does a 3rd basemen need, that a first baseman dosen't need?
But besides that, throwing the ball after fielding a ball in the hole, or diving towards the line, or charging a bunt is a lot harder from 3rd than first.
There's a reason many first baseman are big, slow guys... Frank Thomas, Mark McGwire, Jason Giambi, etc... guys that are often part time DHs. It's also the reason that aging outfielders and catchers end up at 1st. By far the most important part of being able to play first is having good hands. It's not that you don't want a "good" defensive 1st basemen, and obviously there are exceptions w/ guys like Mattingly, Hernandez, etc... The point however is that 3rd base is a much more demanding position physically. It's a more "important" position in terms of athleticism, while at first base the only really "critical" aspect is the glove.
Again, don't miss the point... I'm not saying 1st base defense isn't important, because it is, and it is a nice bonus when you can get a 1st basemen who can throw well and had good range, etc, but it's just that a completely different and wider skillset is necessary to play 3rd base well. I don't see too many 1st basemen who end up moving to different positions in the infield, primarily because if they had the necessary skills they'd be there in the first place.
I wonder what percentage of plays involve the 3rd baseman vs the 1st basemen per game...Originally posted by bakntime
There's a reason 3rd base is called the "hot corner" and not 1st... There are simply more right handed hitters than left handed hitters, and when players hit hard ground balls, they tend to be pulled harder than they are hit to the other side. Therefore, more fielding opportunities at 3rd.
But besides that, throwing the ball after fielding a ball in the hole, or diving towards the line, or charging a bunt is a lot harder from 3rd than first.
There's a reason many first baseman are big, slow guys... Frank Thomas, Mark McGwire, Jason Giambi, etc... guys that are often part time DHs. It's also the reason that aging outfielders and catchers end up at 1st. By far the most important part of being able to play first is having good hands. It's not that you don't want a "good" defensive 1st basemen, and obviously there are exceptions w/ guys like Mattingly, Hernandez, etc... The point however is that 3rd base is a much more demanding position physically. It's a more "important" position in terms of athleticism, while at first base the only really "critical" aspect is the glove.
Again, don't miss the point... I'm not saying 1st base defense isn't important, because it is, and it is a nice bonus when you can get a 1st basemen who can throw well and had good range, etc, but it's just that a completely different and wider skillset is necessary to play 3rd base well. I don't see too many 1st basemen who end up moving to different positions in the infield, primarily because if they had the necessary skills they'd be there in the first place.
Palmer killed Billy Mays
I've had many arguements about this, because I've played first base throughout my brief and crappy baseball career. Many times my friends who would play "more difficult posistions" such as SS or 3B would tell me that they just stick me there because I couldn't play anywhere else.
Well this is probably true, I don't have much of an arm, but my coaches, especially at lower levels, would tell me how important my defense was to the team because infielders were throwing a lot in the dirt etc. I tended to believe my coaches more because they were actually involved more in the game, and knew more.
The reason I started playing first base anyway was that I thought I would get more fielding opps. per game. I love playing the game, and hate playing a posistion that gets the ball hit to it about 2 times a game.
"It's a global thing."-The totally egoless Johnny Damon.
What do you mean by "involve"? A higher percentage of hard grounders go to the 3rd baseman. Obviously the first baseman gets more involved because he catches throws. Catching throws is easier than fielding.. you don't have to turn and throw the ball after you catch it very often as a 1st baseman.Originally posted by NYYFAN
I wonder what percentage of plays involve the 3rd baseman vs the 1st basemen per game...
Third base is a more difficult position to play, and requires a wider range of skills and athleticism. Ask anyone who's ever played both positions at a "high" level.
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