http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...-yankees-print
I probably dug myself too big a hole," said Weaver, who was 12-12 with a 5.35 ERA in two years with the Yankees. "I still would have liked to have gone back and showed everyone what I'm capable of doing."
I think we saw what he was capable of...
Snotty responses aside, I think Weave never reached his potential with us and I hope he finds his form in Lozanges.
(Not against us, of course).
SanFrANSKY
We're Playaz. We're 9. We're Angry.
Base: a certain kind of ball.
Repair these losses...and be a blessing to us.
I think he wasn't allowed enough time to develop. Remember, he essentially did not have any time to develop in the minors...pitched for like 8 days in AAA before being called up. AAA is probably one of the most important steps for a pitcher to develop, but he missed out on that.Originally posted by ed
I think we saw what he was capable of...
Really, I wish we gave him more time. Maybe not in the rotation, but in AAA.
Time to Develop? He's not 20 years old. The guy pitched over 600 innings for Detroit, which was a glorified AAA club anyway. Good riddance to him.Originally posted by WindRavenX
I think he wasn't allowed enough time to develop. Remember, he essentially did not have any time to develop in the minors...pitched for like 8 days in AAA before being called up. AAA is probably one of the most important steps for a pitcher to develop, but he missed out on that.
Really, I wish we gave him more time. Maybe not in the rotation, but in AAA.
Thank you. I can't figure out why so many people want to make excuses for this guy. The Yankees gave him every opportunity in the world to turn it around, including sending him down to Tampa to work with Bill Connors. Maybe he'll improve now that he's closer to home and not under as much pressure, but he was never going to make it in New York.Originally posted by BrightonYankee
Time to Develop? He's not 20 years old. The guy pitched over 600 innings for Detroit, which was a glorified AAA club anyway. Good riddance to him.
Never left the Betances bandwagon.
I always thought when he was with detriot that he was an excellent pitcher who needed a good club so he could prove himself. He showed me I was wrong.
He pitched for the Detroit Tigers not against them. He "developed" while pitching against quality ML teams not against the AAAA Tigers. There is some validity in what Windy is saying...a lot of 'experts' also brought up this fact many times last year during Jeff's struggles.Originally posted by BrightonYankee
Time to Develop? He's not 20 years old. The guy pitched over 600 innings for Detroit, which was a glorified AAA club anyway. Good riddance to him.
I will NEVER forgive him for that homerun to Gonzalez in Game 4 last October.
I remember being at Pro Player that night, and we all knew the ship was going to sink the moment he entered the game. I began congratulating Marlin fans on their victory and of tying the series. All the NY fans sitting with me knew it was coming.
The worst part was that Jeff was able to pitch that 1st good inning to reel all of us in. Suddenly, BOOM a homer that just stayed fair.
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I really wanted him to succeed here but that obviously was not going to happen. By the way, his brother Jarrod Weaver looks like he is going to be really good.
“I mean, people knew that Brown was out there, and that Randy was ornery all the time. And Pavano is whoever he is. But if you’re their manager, you can’t go out and write about them like that.”
He was suppose to pitch today. Does anybody know if he won???
I heard Andy won today for the Astros.
Yankees Are Still the Best in the MLB! Better than ALL the Rest!!!!!
7 innings, 5 hits, 3 runs, 3 walks, and 8 strikeouts. He gave up a monster 2 run bomb to Karim Garcia. Balls aren't supposed to fly that far in Chavez Ravine. Leave it to Weaver to find a way to make it happen...Originally posted by JeanC
He was suppose to pitch today. Does anybody know if he won???
Anyway, the Mets are up 5-1, and it looks like he's headed for another loss...
Listen to what you're saying. You're refuting yourself.Originally posted by Carissa
He pitched for the Detroit Tigers not against them. He "developed" while pitching against quality ML teams not against the AAAA Tigers. There is some validity in what Windy is saying...a lot of 'experts' also brought up this fact many times last year during Jeff's struggles.
"He developed while pitching against quality ML teams..."
Therefore, he is already developed, therefore, "development needed" is NOT and SHOULD NOT BE the excuse for his being terrible as a Yankee.
I guess you didn't understand why I put the quotes around the word developed which you conveniently left out when quoting me above.Originally posted by derekjeter916
Listen to what you're saying. You're refuting yourself.
"He developed while pitching against quality ML teams..."
Therefore, he is already developed, therefore, "development needed" is NOT and SHOULD NOT BE the excuse for his being terrible as a Yankee.
I have to agree with derekjeter916 on this one, Carissa. He did "develop" pitching against ML teams, and he'd been showing he was capable of of competing against other major league teams. He won 13 games and pitched almost 230 innings for the Tigers in 2001 -- a team that only won 67 games that whole season. There are cases where AAA is needed (you can't go straight to the majors if you're drafted by the Yankees, for instance) but in Jeff's case, his progress in the majors was just as good as any stint in AAA. He was progressively getting better; putting him up against the best talent and having him learn that way -- especially if, based on his statistics, he was learning -- is just as good a way -- if not a better way -- to develop -- as pitching against second-rate players. (Kind of like players who swing two bats in the on-deck circle.) It's fine with Detroit, which, as BrightonYankee said, was a "glorified AAA club anyway" -- there's not as much pressure to win there, in a way, because no one's really very good.Originally posted by Carissa
I guess you didn't understand why I put the quotes around the word developed which you conveniently left out when quoting me above.
What I think went wrong is that he was traded too soon from a team where winning maybe isn't everything, to a team that won't accept a season that isn't 162-0. That in itself is a big jump -- the Tigers are not representative of the major league; had he been traded to a team that was more or less competitive but wasn't necessarily the biggest stage in sports -- like, say, the White Sox -- and then traded to the Yankees, the transition likely would've been a helluva lot smoother. Just look at his ERA with the Tigers -- it went from 5.55 to 4.32 to 4.08 to 3.18 (the half-season before he was traded) -- and then jumped back up to 5.99 last year with the Yankees -- that to me seems like an indicator that it wasn't the majors that hampered his development (he was pitching against the same American League teams, after all), but his time on the Yankees in particular, where farmhands conventionally don't make their major league debut until they're 25 or 26. It's just a different philosophy.
"You aint my b!tch, n!gga! Buy your own damn fries!" -- Barack Obama
Well then, please explain it for those of us who "do not understand".Originally posted by Carissa
I guess you didn't understand why I put the quotes around the word developed which you conveniently left out when quoting me above.
"Could have", "should have", "would have", "might have" are all up for debate but he is gone now so any way we resolve it at this point won't wash away those agonizing performances. I don't hate him but I would take a refund if we could get one.
It's a shame Jeff couldn't succeed as a Yankee. I liked him. Anyways, I hope he gets it together and does well as a Dodger...except against us, should he face us.
I hope he does well. I hope he returns to form. But Jeff Weaver for Kevin Brown? Wow.
What a steal.Originally posted by iamherring
I hope he does well. I hope he returns to form. But Jeff Weaver for Kevin Brown? Wow.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by knickfan23
I will NEVER forgive him for that homerun to Gonzalez in Game 4 last October.
I don't blame Weaver as much as I blame Torre for putting Weaver in that situation in the first place. The only time Weaver should've been pitching in the postseason was if the Yankees were being blown out.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Seth
Weaver retired the first 3 batters he faced on 7 pitches. The Yankees blew it on the top half of the next inning when they couldn't get the runner in from 3rd with less than two outs. Weaver was in a no win situation, not having pitched in exactly one month. If Aaron Boone made simple contact, then Mo comes in for the save and Jeff Weaver gets the win...Originally posted by knickfan23
I will NEVER forgive him for that homerun to Gonzalez in Game 4 last October.
I don't blame Weaver as much as I blame Torre for putting Weaver in that situation in the first place. The only time Weaver should've been pitching in the postseason was if the Yankees were being blown out.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Seth
Torre was hellbent on getting Weaver in that game for some reason. He also had him up and warming in the first when Clemens was struggling.Originally posted by knickfan23
I will NEVER forgive him for that homerun to Gonzalez in Game 4 last October.
I don't blame Weaver as much as I blame Torre for putting Weaver in that situation in the first place. The only time Weaver should've been pitching in the postseason was if the Yankees were being blown out.
With regards to your first sentence, I feel at that point Torre should've quit while he was ahead in regard to Weaver. Torre should've realized Weaver's confidence was down to almost zero. Anybody out of the bullpen would've been a better option, even Mo, even though the game was tied. I pretty much agree with just everything else in your post.Originally posted by Yanks21
Weaver retired the first 3 batters he faced on 7 pitches. The Yankees blew it on the top half of the next inning when they couldn't get the runner in from 3rd with less than two outs. Weaver was in a no win situation, not having pitched in exactly one month. If Aaron Boone made simple contact, then Mo comes in for the save and Jeff Weaver gets the win...
I believe Weaver and Mo were the only pitchers available at that point in the game...Originally posted by Seth
With regards to your first sentence, I feel at that point Torre should've quit while he was ahead in regard to Weaver. Torre should've realized Weaver's confidence was down to almost zero. Anybody out of the bullpen would've been a better option, even Mo, even though the game was tied. I pretty much agree with just everything else in your post.
Weaver was the long reliever. That's why he would be up in the first...Originally posted by Mattpat11
Torre was hellbent on getting Weaver in that game for some reason. He also had him up and warming in the first when Clemens was struggling.
I looked at http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/ps/y2003/index.jsp and looked at the box score of Game 4 and the box scores of Games 1 thru 3 and it looked like Gabe White and Felix Heredia were available as well.Originally posted by Yanks21
I believe Weaver and Mo were the only pitchers available at that point in the game...
I think it could have been Weaver or Contreras serving long relief for that game if needed.Originally posted by Yanks21
Weaver was the long reliever. That's why he would be up in the first...
If that was true, you really had to go Mo. If you're gonna go down, go down with your best, not worst.I believe Weaver and Mo were the only pitchers available at that point in the game...
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