Pudge the best Catcher???

[Thrillhouse]

ESPN.com says he's the best fantasy catcher according to their rankings. I found this awfully funny considering as of now he isn't on a team. You can't predict how well he is going to do if he's not on a team. If he signs with Detriot then he isn't going to do as well as say Posada or Lopez. What are your thoughts???

http://games.espn.go.com/content/flb...kings_catchers

[DonZimmerRules]

With respect to his raw tools, I'd say he's the most talented and I would fear him more than any other catcher (from both an offensive and defensive perspective) - but I love Jorge and his intangibles..

[Irabu's Son]

ESPN Fantasy Points aside, I think Pudge is arguably the best catcher ever.

[Thrillhouse]

nope, Johnny Bench is IMO best catcher ever. Then Yogi.

[KeepClaussen]

Originally posted by Irabu's Son
ESPN Fantasy Points aside, I think Pudge is arguably the best catcher ever.

Think id go something like Yogi, Fisk bench, Piazza, I-rod in that order.

Piazza has clearly been better then I-rod IMHO a much better hitter enough so to outwiegh I-rods defensive superiority.

World series majik apparently masked it to the main stream media but I-rod has been on a pretty bad decline since his MVP that he didint deserve.

[cubswin]

I think he's overrated at the plate, and my take is that his defense has declined, though still very good - that said, I probably haven;t seen him play enough recently to say with any certainty.

[Irabu's Son]

Originally posted by KeepClaussen


Think id go something like Yogi, Fisk bench, Piazza, I-rod in that order.

Piazza has clearly been better then I-rod IMHO a much better hitter enough so to outwiegh I-rods defensive superiority.

World series majik apparently masked it to the main stream media but I-rod has been on a pretty bad decline since his MVP that he didint deserve.

I think as a catcher the most important thing is defense. He's (or at least was) amazing defensively, and his offense ain't too bad either. I'd take him over Piazza any day. And over Yogi. Bench is a toss-up. Just a modest opinion

[KeepClaussen]

Originally posted by Irabu's Son


I think as a catcher the most important thing is defense. He's (or at least was) amazing defensively, and his offense ain't too bad either. I'd take him over Piazza any day. And over Yogi. Bench is a toss-up. Just a modest opinion

I think the msot important thing with a catcher is game calling skills but since that cant really be measured id take a below average defender with a good bat then a above average defender with a below avg bat.

The diffrence between a pudge and piazza is what 30-40 extra SBs a year?

Piazza Career 319/388/577 153 OPS+

Thats far and away the best offensive Catcher ever. Not only that but he did it while playing in major pitchers parks his entire career.

Pudge Career 304/344/488 114OPS+

Pudge played in major hitters parks his entire career. I dont think the few extra Sbs that Piazza costs you are worth the huge offensive dropoff.

[Irabu's Son]

Originally posted by KeepClaussen


The diffrence between a pudge and piazza is what 30-40 extra SBs a year?

I dunno but I bet it's more than that. I wonder if there's a stat we can look up.

[Nettles dfw]

I will go with Yogi and his three MVP's.

[JDPNYY]

How about...

Yogi Berra, Bill DlCKEY, Elston Howard, Thurman Munson, Jorge Posada


Can any other Franchise boast a fivesome this good?




A: No way.

[Bozidar]

Originally posted by Nettles dfw
I will go with Yogi and his three MVP's.

Amen, brudda.

And for this year, i'm going to go with the guy who's career is on the upswing, not on the down swing -- Jorge Posada.

Does I-Rod even have a team yet? You have any idea how awlful his fantasy numbers will turn from '03 to '04 if he goes from Arlington to Detriot?

[Nettles dfw]

Originally posted by Bozidar
Amen, brudda.

And for this year, i'm going to go with the guy who's career is on the upswing, not on the down swing -- Jorge Posada.

Does I-Rod even have a team yet? You have any idea how awlful his fantasy numbers will turn from '03 to '04 if he goes from Arlington to Detriot?

er... I believe Pudge played for the Florida Nine last year.

That being said, I was surpised to find out he had a huge OPS split at home in 2003. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...ting&year=2003 Home OPS 909 vs Away OPS 779. His counting stats seem to be pretty similar, he just had more walks / less at bats at home.

In any case you are right, Detroit could kill him fanatasy wise.

FWIW, I always thought Pudge's defense was overrated. I think that preventing stolen bases is given too much focus when evaluating a catchers defense. I can recall discussions on Dallas sports radio (take that for what it is worth!) that the Rangers ERA was better with other cathers other than Pudge.

Of course saying the Rangers ERA was not as bad as usual ain't exactly the best compliment in the world.

[Looie #19]

Originally posted by JDPNYY
How about...

Yogi Berra, Bill DlCKEY, Elston Howard, Thurman Munson, Jorge Posada


Can any other Franchise boast a fivesome this good?

I'd say the Reds might be the closest.

Reds: Johnny Bench (HOF), Buck Ewing (HOF), Ernie Lombardi (HOF), Ed Bailey (5 time All Star), Bubbles Hargrave (career .310 hitter, 119 OPS+, NL Batting Champ)

[cubswin]

Originally posted by Nettles dfw

...FWIW, I always thought Pudge's defense was overrated. I think that preventing stolen bases is given too much focus when evaluating a catchers defense. I can recall discussions on Dallas sports radio (take that for what it is worth!) that the Rangers ERA was better with other cathers other than Pudge.
...

also, didn;t an SI article a few years ago mention complaints of some of his pitchers that he calls a bad game, alleging that he is more concerned with his caught-stealing #s than with what the batter should be thrown?

[Michaels07]

Originally posted by JDPNYY
How about...

Yogi Berra, Bill DlCKEY, Elston Howard, Thurman Munson, Jorge Posada


Can any other Franchise boast a fivesome this good?




A: No way.

If only Mel Allan were alive, he would say " How About that"

[Nettles dfw]

Originally posted by cubswin


also, didn;t an SI article a few years ago mention complaints of some of his pitchers that he calls a bad game, alleging that he is more concerned with his caught-stealing #s than with what the batter should be thrown?

I've heard those same complaints (although my source is Dallas Sports Radio).

[BombersBlvd]

Wouldn't it suck if Pudge hypothetically edges out Jorge for MVP for his undeniable contribution to some sub-cellar team's 60-something wins? Oh wait that was the other Rodriguez.

[Looie #19]

Originally posted by BombersBlvd
Wouldn't it suck if Pudge hypothetically edges out Jorge for MVP for his undeniable contribution to some sub-cellar team's 60-something wins? Oh wait that was the other Rodriguez.

Carlos Delgado was "edged out" for MVP this season.

[DonZimmerRules]

I can't believe that nobody brought up the original Pudge - Fisk. Great defense in all aspects, good hitter, good power and surprising speed for a catcher

[derekjeter916]

He's the best catcher of the generation thus far, and probably has the most talent. However, CURRENTLY I don't think he's the best statistically. He gets ranked the best a lot, because of his past successes and the fact that he was the leader of the 2003 world champions, but I think he's probably 3rd or 4th.

[NJASDJDH]

Originally posted by derekjeter916
He's the best catcher of the generation thus far, and probably has the most talent. However, CURRENTLY I don't think he's the best statistically. He gets ranked the best a lot, because of his past successes and the fact that he was the leader of the 2003 world champions, but I think he's probably 3rd or 4th.

Piazza is better than Pudge.

[cubswin]

Originally posted by NJASDJDH


Piazza is better than Pudge.

I think that's a difficult comparison to make, given how different they are as players. Piazza is clearly a far better hitter, but he's also clearly a far worse defensive catcher. IMO, b/c catcher is such an important position defensively, I'd take I-Rod - if allegations about his game-calling being lackluster are not true.

[uconnhoopz123]

i think javy lopez and posada are better

[NJASDJDH]

Originally posted by cubswin


I think that's a difficult comparison to make, given how different they are as players. Piazza is clearly a far better hitter, but he's also clearly a far worse defensive catcher. IMO, b/c catcher is such an important position defensively, I'd take I-Rod - if allegations about his game-calling being lackluster are not true.

The gap between them offensively is MUCH wider than the defensive one.

[NJASDJDH]

Originally posted by uconnhoopz123
i think javy lopez and posada are better

Posada yes, Lopez no.