Did the Vlad fans see this?

[yogibuck]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...son&id=1608256

Guerrero's 86 errors since 1997 are 35 more than the next-closest outfielder (Sosa's 51).

[koko]

Errors or not, sign me up. He's got a hose, and people will stop going 1st to 3rd and 2nd to home on singles to RF.

[baseballboy4life]

Vlad is obviously the best player on the Expos, not the best player in the league though. He does have the best arm from RF in the majors. If the Expos don't re-sign him then they're going to lose some of their already small amount of fans, plus they get rid of their best player. I think they will regret it big time.

[ring403]

Originally posted by yogibuck
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...son&id=1608256

Guerrero's 86 errors since 1997 are 35 more than the next-closest outfielder (Sosa's 51).

Most of those errors were early in his career. He has cut down on them in recent years, as he has learned to play his position at this level. At the same time his assists have increased.
Throw in an OPS of 1.000 plus, and speed on top of that, and you have the best RF'er in the game. The scariest part is that he's still young, and has not yet reached his peak. Imagine the damage he would do in the middle of the Yankee lineup for the next decade!

[Yanks21]

Originally posted by baseballboy4life
If the Expos don't re-sign him then they're going to lose some of their already small amount of fans, plus they get rid of their best player. I think they will regret it big time.

This would be true if the Expos were owned by anyone other than MLB. Vlad will be gone next season. Then after next season Vazquez and Vidro will be gone. This is what MLB wants. It'll make contracting the team that much easier...

[Don Mack]

Ring403 wrote: "Throw in an OPS of 1.000 plus, and speed on top of that, and you have the best RF'er in the game. The scariest part is that he's still young, and has not yet reached his peak. Imagine the damage he would do in the middle of the Yankee lineup for the next decade!"
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I have been imagining it for the past 2 years. I just don't know how the lineup would be although that would be a wonderful thing for a manager to have to figure out. I kind of like the way Joe has been going with the righty, lefty, righty, lefty, switchhitter, lefty, switchhitter, righty, lefty thing. Where would Vlad fit in if they were lucky enough to sign him?

1. Soriano - righty
2. Big Nick - lefty
3. Jeter - righty
4. Giambi - lefty
5. Vlad - righty
6. Posada - Switchhitter
7. Bernie - Switchhitter
8. Matsui - lefty
9. Boone - righty

That would be an awesome lineup, eh?

[yogibuck]

Jeter SS
Johnson DH
Vlad RF
Giambi 1B
Soriano 2b
Matsui CF
Posada C
Bernie LF (6 through 8 go to who is the hotest since 2 are Swithhitters)
Boone 3b

Oh my god, even I think that is a little insane. But I would love it.

[Yankee Bulldawg]

Originally posted by yogibuck
Jeter SS
Johnson DH
Vlad RF
Giambi 1B
Soriano 2b
Matsui CF
Posada C
Bernie LF (6 through 8 go to who is the hotest since 2 are Swithhitters)
Boone 3b

Oh my god, even I think that is a little insane. But I would love it.

That would indeed be one serious awesome lineup. Let DJ be the leadoff batter and put Soriano in the middle of the lineup to give em some nice punch. Who knows folks this could be our lineup come next season lets hope that we can do business with them and bring Vlad to NY.

[Alex]

Who do we play in the 3rd hole when Vlad inevitably goes on the DL with his chronic back problems? Also, who do we play in the outfield when holes himself up in his locker crying for his mamma when he can't take the NY pressure? Just exaggerating a bit to underscore my point.

I know he's the best FA player since ARod. But I don't believe he will succeed here. He'll be a Cub or something - a place where he can flourish and maybe get them a World Series Championship.

He will expect a long-term contract (circa 2011 or 2013). His back & salary will eventually become an albatross.

[Saxmania]

Not to mention with Jeter, Giambi, and Mussina we have several large, long contracts that make yet another something of a burden, what with the increasing luxury tax rate and all. More than 3 years, $10 million is going to hurt us down the road, and Guerrero will want five years at a minimum. He's a fantastic player, but I don't think he's a good fit for us.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[DiMaggio5CF]

You give me a perennial 40-40 guy, who can hit for a high average as well, has the best outfield arm in baseball, and is one of the most feared players in the game today . . . and I'll deal with the errors.

Maybe he does make a lot of errors, but for a right fielder, it's not really a huge deal. Would I rather have a guy who makes less errors? Of course. But, especially in right field, I'm not going to pass up a guy that's everything that I mentioned above.

If we were discussing a shorstop, a second baseman, or a center fielder, then I'd have to think about it. And if Guerrero was totally inept in right field, with an average or below-average arm, then I'd also have to think about it.

But he's one of the best hitters in the game today, both power and batting average wise, with speed, and an absolute cannon for an arm. I'll take Guerrero in right field any day.

[DiMaggio5CF]

Oh, and by the way, Guerrero, who will turn 28 this coming February, is just now beginning to hit his prime.

[DiMaggio5CF]

I would go:

1. Jeter, SS (L)
2. Williams, LF (S)
3. Guerrero, RF (R)
4. Giambi, 1B (L)
5. Soriano, 2B (R)
6. Matsui, CF (L)
7. Posada, C (S)
8. Johnson, DH (L)
9. Boone, 3B (R)

Of course, you could just pick the line-up out of a friggin' hat. Everybody in that line-up is cabable of hitting for a high average and for power. It really makes no difference what order you put them in, just as long as it's those nine guys.

[ring403]

Originally posted by Saxmania
Not to mention with Jeter, Giambi, and Mussina we have several large, long contracts that make yet another something of a burden, what with the increasing luxury tax rate and all. More than 3 years, $10 million is going to hurt us down the road, and Guerrero will want five years at a minimum.

I'm not sure how you quantify what is a financial burden to a team , and owner with so much money that they have no "budget", except some arbitrary number that George throws out there every year, and inevitably exceeds anyway.
I would say that the contracts of players like Mondesi and Hitchcock are burdensome, because they don't help the team. If you pay out money and get nothing in return, that is a liability. If you pay money to Jeter, Giambi, and Mussina, who actually help the team win, and thereby increase revenue in the long run, it is money well spent. So if the team goes out this offseason and signs Vlad, Colon , or whoever else they want, and those players contribute to another World Series win, and ultimately add to the revenue stream, the amount of money they cost will likely end up being less than the amount they help generate down the line.

[Saxmania]

Well, yes and no. Derek Jeter's going to be paid $18 million in 2008 (IIRC), and the odds that he will be one of the best-hitting shortstops in the league at that point are very low in my opinion. Giambi will probably be a full-time DH, and Mussina could well decline. In other words, all of those contracts could be potential albatrosses for the Yankees, although now they seem reasonable in baseball terms (except, I would argue, the Jeter contract).

The Yankees aren't "budgetless", and their limit is more likely to go down than up with the new CBA. As the core of this team requires replacing, and the farm system in an abysmal state, we're going to need cash to acquire a new CF, SS, at least one new frontline SP, and maybe eventually a C. These are defense-critical positions that the Yankees have got unreal production out of over the last seven years, and it will take big bucks to get anywhere near the value in replacement players, since New York won't live with much offensive downgrading (want a C with a .330 OBP? A SS that can't hit for power?), and defense is one of the main reasons our pitching staff isn't as good as it should be, according to sabermetricians.

Tying a lot of money up in an easy position to fill (look where we got Garcia from!) will limit our capability to acquire a new core in three years time. This is a serious mistake in my opinion. Guerrero's great, and if he played SS I'd go after him full guns. Jeter to CF, Bernie to LF, Matsui to RF (yeah, well) and you're set. Instead, I'd like to see us sign Kaz Matsui, and beg Jeter to put team above ambition and move. Vlad is a wonderful player, and I'll enjoy watching him play if he's in New York, but I firmly believe that it's a mistake for this organization to sign him because of his cost and required contract time. A mistake that Steinbrenner, sad to say, is likely to get suckered into. C'est la vie.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[ring403]

Saxmania, you bring up some very good points. I would agree that many of the big contracts signed before the new CBA threw salaries into a tailspin, now seem way out of line. Not much we can do about that now. Nobody could have predicted that salaries would actually drop to the extent they did last offseason.
I don't think we're going to see many 7-10 year mega-deals this year, and it will be interesting to see what direction, if any, that salaries take. It remains to be seen whether or not our big money players will be worth their salaries in the future.
As for replacing our core players, we still have a few years before we need to worry, but you are correct that the farm, at least at the upper levels, is pretty barren. We do have some talent at the lower levels that holds some promise. However I believe that the Yankee organization has made a conscious decision to aggresively pursue foreign players. They have seen the wisdom of forming partnerships in Japan. How many would argue now that Matsui isn't worth the $6 million he's getting this season? We got a heck of a player for a bargain basement price.
Korea is another country that is reportedly a hotbed of untapped talent, and one where the Yanks are actively involved. I believe that the availability of these low cost, major league ready foreign players, makes grooming our own kids a little less of a necessity.
Anyway, while I certainly don't advocate signing Vlad, or anybody else without regard to cost, I do think that the Yankees need to consider carefully the opportunity to sign a young man who is the best at his position, one of the best in the league, and is very likely to remain such for many years to come.
The middle of our order has been sub-par all season, and with Bernie's health and age becoming a concern, a bonafied, cleanup hitting outfielder is awefully tempting.

[yogibuck]

My prediction is that Vlad will ACTUALLY end up in Atlanta.

As a replacement for Gary Sheffield, who is going to be playing RF for the NYY's next season.

One thing we can't do, is not sign talented players now when the market is at such a discount. It will turn back around with the economy.

Getting Vlad or Sheffield at 3 yr - $9-$10 mil. per is an absolute steal. Which is where many say the market is heading.

And that three year contract would be off the books before your replacing the roster theory takes place.

I say you'd be a damn fool for standing pat when the price is right and everybody is scared of offering anything more than three years.

[Saxmania]

Then perhaps I'll be a damn fool. But Baltimore is looking to spend serious money this year, and Vlad is an obvious target (keeps him in a relatively small market - which he's rumored to prefer). Not to mention the usual Mets rumors. A bidding war could well develop over Vlad, and paying much over $10m per for a player that - while exceptional - neither plays a vital defensive position nor is clear of injury risk is a move that gives me pause. And if you think no-one else will offer more than three years for Vlad - I'm sorry, I disagree strongly. Angelos certainly will, because he's paired the Orioles' payroll down to almost nothing for exactly this kind of spending spree. The market's as low as it's going to get - this is his time to move.

At this time, with our committments, I'd rather pay $8m per for Kaz Matsui, for three years instead of six, and see our infield defense improve dramatically while our offensive production stays around the same. Assuming no major injuries, we will kill the ball next year without Vlad. I think we need better infield defense (which will help our pitching), one more frontline starter, and although I understand it won't happen, we should move Jeter to CF if we can get Matsui II. We improve defense at two positions simultaneously. And Matsui should be a very productive player, with speed and a little pop. Actually, a bit like a second Jeter.

Posada-Johnson-Soriano-Matsui-Boone is a young and defensively good infield with very high offensive production. Bernie-Jeter-Matsui is a defensively good outfield with average to high offensive production, and Giambi, when healthy, will be an offensive monster at DH. You solve Bernie's move to LF and our RF hole simultaneously, for less money than Vlad would cost, and with more flexibility down the line. Spend the money saved by Clemens, Wells, Mondesi, Ventura etc. leaving, and get yourself a frontline starter. Oh, and continue to print money in Japan.

C'mon, people. Who's with me?

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[Yankee Bulldawg]

I dont see why we need to move Jeter to centerfield because his best position is and always will be shortstop. Why not move Bernie to left and Hideki to CF? Also we defenitley need an improvement in RF because the 3 man platoon of Garcia/Sierra/Rivera simply cant cut it.

Garcia can be used as a PH but Sierra & Rivera in my opinion are simply useless. The Yankees will go after another RF which will either be Vlad or Gary Sheffield. I believe that most likely they will get Sheffield because Vlad will have alot of teams after him and it will be a bidding war to land his signature. Also remember that the Yankees need pitching help come next year cause Rocket is retiring. Meaning the Yankees will be seeking to land a big name free agent starting pitching with the biggest names out there being either Kevin Milwood/Greg Maddux/Javier Vazquez.

[Saxmania]

Originally posted by Yankee Bulldawg
I dont see why we need to move Jeter to centerfield because his best position is and always will be shortstop. Why not move Bernie to left and Hideki to CF? Also we defenitley need an improvement in RF because the 3 man platoon of Garcia/Sierra/Rivera simply cant cut it.

Jeter isn't a particularly good defensive shortstop. Matsui would by all accounts be a very good defensive shortstop, and Jeter would most likely make a very good defensive centerfielder, allowing Bernie to move to LF and Matsui to RF. It improves our defense at three different positions (SS, CF, RF), and Bernie replacing Matsui in LF shouldn't be much of a change.

And as for Jeter's best position "always will be" shortstop - well, I disagree strongly. Any objective measure of his defensive quality places him as average or below average, and while you may not like the sabermetric measures of analysing defence, Jeter's Fielding Percentage is next to last in the major leagues among regular shortstops, and last among American League shortstops. That merits some consideration, don't you think?

I'm not prepared to just blithely state "Jeter's a shortstop, so moving him won't happen", because the facts say that he's hurting this team where he is. I think he's a tremendous player, and could be a great defensive player at another position, but I don't think him playing at SS is good for the team. And the opportunity to upgrade our defense all over the park and grab a second potential Japanese superstar is one I find difficult to pass up, especially when K. Matsui is likely going to come cheaper than Vlad or Sheff.

Also, Vasquez isn't a free agent, otherwise I would agree - go after him. By the way, Garcia's hitting over .300 with an OPS over .800, so he's not a disaster at RF. However, an outfield of Bernie, Jeter, Matsui solves that problem nicely.

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[yogibuck]

and not forced to face lefties. Which he has been horrible against this yr. Career wise (not much to go on) I think he has had good success versus lefties.

As for moving Jeter to center. I've been saying this for three years and I've almost given up any hope.

Vlad/Sheffield in right or Matsui at short, all about the same to me. The problem with Matsui is that there is STILL no guarantee he can cut it.

For a couple million more you get a proven superstar. I don't know, that is a tough pill to swallow.

[SINCE77 2]

Vidro is the better choice for the Yankees. Move Sori to left. Vidro has a vg glove and is a switch hitter with pop who gets on base.

[ring403]

Originally posted by SINCE77 2
Vidro is the better choice for the Yankees. Move Sori to left. Vidro has a vg glove and is a switch hitter with pop who gets on base.

Even if they were inclined to move Sori from second, which they are not, Vidro is not a FA, and the Yankees certainly don't have the young talent that Montreal would demand in return.

[koko]

Originally posted by yogibuck
My prediction is that Vlad will ACTUALLY end up in Atlanta.

As a replacement for Gary Sheffield, who is going to be playing RF for the NYY's next season.

One thing we can't do, is not sign talented players now when the market is at such a discount. It will turn back around with the economy.

Getting Vlad or Sheffield at 3 yr - $9-$10 mil. per is an absolute steal. Which is where many say the market is heading.

And that three year contract would be off the books before your replacing the roster theory takes place.

I say you'd be a damn fool for standing pat when the price is right and everybody is scared of offering anything more than three years.

I agree taht the bargains are now, but Vlad will command much more than $10 million.

If my options are Sheffield at $10 per for 3 years or Vlad at $15 mil/per for 5, I'll take Vlad.