Yankee what-ifs?

[Mr. Maddux]

I'm a huge sports fan. I'm also a huge history buff, and I enjoy thinking up alternate histories for certain events. With that in mind, I'd like to start a thread about Yankee history what ifs. For instance, what if the Yankees had home field in the 2001 WS? After all, if World Series home field advantage were decided by record, they would've had it.

NY Yankees (96-65) vs. Arizona Diamondbacks (92-70)

See what I mean?

Now, I could see the Yankees getting one of two games in Yankee Stadium. I don't see them being beaten 9-1 and 4-0 at home, unless they wanted a 1996 repeat. And if it comes down to Game 7, well, since 1979, when Pittsburgh did it to Baltimore, no team has went on the road to win a seventh game.

Questions? Comments? Your own scenarios?

[Jersey Yankee]

WS aren't decided by record, they're played on the field. Hence, "that's why they play the game".

If you put Doza in f/the 8th, bring the infield out, not in, I think the '01 WS scoreboard changes dramatically, Mo and Clemens are co-WS MVPs, not Curt and Eunuch.

In 1960 WS, if Whitey Ford starts Games 1, 4 and 7, Yanks win. Ford killed Pittsburgh in Game 6, but Casey didn't think a southpaw should start a WS. I think it was the next season that he was canned, went to the Mut$.

[Mr. Maddux]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
WS aren't decided by record, they're played on the field. Hence, "that's why they play the game".

If you put Doza in f/the 8th, bring the infield out, not in, I think the '01 WS scoreboard changes dramatically, Mo and Clemens are co-WS MVPs, not Curt and Eunuch.

In 1960 WS, if Whitey Ford starts Games 1, 4 and 7, Yanks win. Ford killed Pittsburgh in Game 6, but Casey didn't think a southpaw should start a WS. I think it was the next season that he was canned, went to the Mut$.

Actually, what I meant by the records comment is that if the WS gave home field to the team with the better record, then New York would have Games 1,2, 6, and 7 at home. That would've made some difference, in my opinion, especially with the massive home field advantage in game sevens nowadays. But you're right: records don't win WS; the play on the field does. Trust me, I know; I'm a Braves fan!

Good point about putting the infield out; changes the game dramatically. Plus, Whitey Ford probably would've been better against the Pirates; he pitched extremely well in that series, as he always did in the Fall Classic.

I guess another scenario would be: what if Jim Thome's GS attempt in the first inning of Game Four of the 1998 ALCS actually got out of the park? The series was already in Cleveland's favor, having won games 2 and 3. The Yankees may very well come back in the game, but it would have been hard to do.

[Jersey Yankee]

Coolness.

What if Jeremy Giambi had slid?

[Mr. Maddux]

Good question. If he had slid, the game's tied. But with the way Moose pitched that night, it would probably go extra innings. Something tells me the yankees would've pulled it out in the 12th or 13th inning. But, if Oakland wins, the WS in 2001 will be very different, possibly having the Mariners squaring off against Arizona after beating Oakland in the ALCS. I'd say Mariners in 7 in the LCS, and possibly Arizona in 6 in the World Series.

What if McDowell holds on and beats Seattle in 1995? What does anyone think of the Yankees chances against Cleveland that year?

[Gehrig]

What if Red Kleinow caught that ball...

[penguin4]

What if Wade Boggs had swung at Wohlers' fastball in the dirt on the 3-2 count? Would there be a dynasty?

What if O'Neill's double off the wall in Game 5 of the 1997 ALDS went a foot or two further? Baltimore had kicked our ass most of the year, and our #1 starter (Cone) was on the DL. Would the O's have won the World Series? Or better yet, what if Mo hadn't hung that pitch to Sandy Alomar in Game 4? Then Pettitte would've been able to start Game 1 of the ALCS in Baltimore vs. Scott Erickson, and our rotation would've remained intact. Boomer would've faced Jimmy Key (who was in the twilight of his career) in Game 2, Doc Gooden would've faced Muuse (one of the league's top pitchers, but against whom the Yankees usually could hit) in Game 3 at Yankee Stadium. Could we have beaten the Orioles, then?

What if the Yanks had traded Kenny Rogers for Gregg Vaughn earlier that same year?? (The trade would've happened had Vaughn not failed his physical.) Who would've played third base for us in 1998 -- would we still have been able to acquire Scotty Brosius? And would we have won 125 games and the World Series (and the two Series after that)? And would Gregg have hit those fifty home runs -- the most since Mickey Mantle -- in pinstripes??

What if we'd signed Albert Belle instead of Bernie?

What if Benitez wasn't such an A**?? Would Tino have put up 1997 numbers in 1998 (in 37 games he was batting .324 and was second in the league with 37 RBIs)?

What if Clemens had missed Piazza's helmet (or hit Piazza with the broken bat)?

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by penguin4
And would Gregg have hit those fifty home runs -- the most since Mickey Mantle -- in pinstripes??

**cough-cough Roger Maris cough-cough**

[Mr. Maddux]

What if Benitez had held that lead against the Yanks in Game 1 of the 2000 Series? That series might at least go six.

In 1997, it's very possible the scenario posed in the ALCS could've given the Yanks a matchup with the Marlins. How knows how that would go?

What if in 1981, Tommy John hadn't been lifted in the fifth against the Dodgers? Remember that the score was 1-1, and he was lifted for a pinch hitter(Bobby Murcer). Think the Yankees could pull that out with George Frazier and the Yankee defense not collapsing in the fifth? For that matter, what if Frazier didn't help blow Games 3-5? Or what if Reggie Jackson doesn't lose that ball in the sun in Game 4?

[penguin4]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
**cough-cough Roger Maris cough-cough**

You're right. I'm an idiot. But it was 2 AM -- I wasn't thinking straight!!!

[Mr. Maddux]

I just thought of another one. What if, in the 1941 WS, Mickey Owen catches that ball which was strike three on Tommy Heinrich? The Yankees lose, series tied at two, and the Dodgers have a fighting chance.

Or what about in 1926? What if Babe Ruth doesn't try to steal second in the 9th? Maybe the Yankees rally and win?

[Gehrig]

Originally posted by Mr. Maddux


Or what about in 1926? What if Babe Ruth doesn't try to steal second in the 9th? Maybe the Yankees rally and win?

What if the fix WAS in and the Yankees HAD to lose...as has been suggested from time to time....

[Mr. Maddux]

Hmmm.. I've never heard that, Gehrig. Regardless, it wasn't the greatest decision Ruth made in the game.

What about Game 7 of the 1962 WS? If that ball hit by McCovey is a little higher, and Richardson can't make the catch? Yankees lose, don't they? Could that bring about an earlier end to the dynasty, or do they come back for '63 and '64? After all, despite the disaster in 1963, they still got back to the Series in '64.

[Gehrig]

"Deep to left...Yastrzemski is under it...Dent is out !!"

[Mr. Maddux]

Or what if the Braves held on in Game 1 of the '99 WS? The defense fell apart for Maddux and Rocker.

What if that leads to this in Game 3:

"Jordan has Knoblauch's ball measured..at the wall... he CAUGHT it!"



The Bucky Dent what if is scary indeed for the Yanks. But trust me Gehrig, the Red Sox would've blown it somehow.

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by Gehrig
"Deep to left...Yastrzemski is under it...Dent is out !!"

... and Yaz pops it up foul ... but Nettles drops it!!!

Originally posted by penguin4
You're right. I'm an idiot. But it was 2 AM -- I wasn't thinking straight!!!

I'd never call you an idiot. I'd just say you didn't have your coffee yet, that's all.

[Jersey Yankee]

What if Jeffrey Maier never caught that ball? Would we still have won that ALCS?

What if Andy never pitched that 1-0 game vs Braves, and gave up 2 runs instead? Would Yanks have been still able to come back?

What if Thurm had lived? Would he really have played f/Cleveland?

What if George never fired Yogi in '85 after a 6-10 record? Would his season have been a winning one?

How great would the Mick have been had he not drank so much?

[Mr. Maddux]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
What if Jeffrey Maier never caught that ball? Would we still have won that ALCS?

Hard to say. Remember that Baltimore came back from that and won Game 2 in New York, but went on to lose three straight at home.

But what if Cleveland, the team that had the best record that year (99-62), squared off against the Yanks? Would the hitting be too much for New York? Would the dynasty be put off for two years?

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by Mr. Maddux
Hard to say. Remember that Baltimore came back from that and won Game 2 in New York, but went on to lose three straight at home.

But what if Cleveland, the team that had the best record that year (99-62), squared off against the Yanks? Would the hitting be too much for New York? Would the dynasty be put off for two years?

There was one loony O's poster who'd argued that this was unfair in the Yanks' favor, and that this changed the series altogether. Still, it's only one game, but like Kirk Gibson's walkoffer 8 years prior vs Eckersley, it set the tone.

No complaining about losing 3 at home. Yanks lost 3 to Seattle in '95. Sounds like another what-if, since what if Donnie had gotten to the WS that season. Would we have won it? Hmmmmmmmmmmm ...

I never look at W-L records much. I can't give anything specific like it's a science, but some pitchers handle some hitters better. I mean, last night, Claussen pitching to Cliff Floyd w/2 RISP, 2 outs, he K'd him. Earlier, Seo pitched to Giambi, but G-Man got about 2 ribs off the CF wall from that one.

While I wouldn't have minded seeing that matchup, as we did in '98, you can only play the winner of a series, not necessarily the team w/the best record.

[Mr. Maddux]

Yanks vs. Braves in the '95 WS? I wonder if the Yankees could've pulled that out, or if it was just Atlanta's year. I'm just glad I don't have to think about that too much, with that being Atlanta's championship year..

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by Mr. Maddux
Yanks vs. Braves in the '95 WS? I wonder if the Yankees could've pulled that out, or if it was just Atlanta's year. I'm just glad I don't have to think about that too much, with that being Atlanta's championship year..

Don't feel so bad. Feller and Doby played in the Tribe's last WS win.

[Mr. Maddux]

Heh, you are right there, Jersey Yankee.

I wonder: what if Chambliss doesn't hit that HR in the '76 ALCS against KC? Do the Yanks still pull it out?

[wexy]

What if my mom had said "Not tonight I have a headache!" ?

[Gehrig]

Originally posted by wexy
What if my mom had said "Not tonight I have a headache!" ?

Then she'd be Wally Pipp ?

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by Gehrig
Then she'd be Wally Pipp ?

Great answer!!!

[terry14420]

And his father would be Wally Drip.

[koko]

Originally posted by terry14420
And his father would be Wally Drip.

Hi oh!!!!

[ACPS]

What if Roy Oswalt stayed in the game?

[Mr. Maddux]

Originally posted by ACPS
What if Roy Oswalt stayed in the game?

Then the No-hitter may not happen. Or it wouldn't have been as special as with six pitchers. But if it doesn't happen, maybe the Yanks don't get that spark that leads to their current tear.

Here's another one: what if Greg Maddux goes to the Yankees in 1993? They offered more money than Atlanta, but he wanted to go to a contender. If he goes to New York, than maybe the Yankees have even more championships, while, and I hate to say this, Atlanta may have none at all.

[The Rolling Yankees]

What if the ball got by Pinella in the '78 playoff game?

[Jersey Yankee]

Originally posted by The Rolling Yankees
What if the ball got by Pinella in the '78 playoff game?

What if Yaz had smacked a double instead of popping up to Nettles? I remember a 3B runner, but unsure if there were others on base, but it would've been a tied game.

What if Reggie hadn't hit that 2-run HR, giving us 5 runs? We could've lost 4-3 in that game from only Bucky's HR (which made the score 3-2).

[Yankchic22]

What an interesting thread...

[1TonHumanHamsterWheel]

I haven't posted here in almost a year, but I had to join in on this one.

What if Showalter took Cone out in the bottom of the 8th of Game 5 in '95 in Seattle after the Griffey home run that made it 4-3? He didn't want to go to Wetteland since he gave up the grand slam to E.Martinez, but Rivera may have gone in earlier than he did. I still don't think we could have beaten Cleveland that year, even though we split the season series 3-3. If Showalter wins that series, does he keep his job? Would we win the WS the next year with him?

What if Wohlers threw a 100-MPH fastball that Leyritz couldn't handle and strikes him out? Then he probably gets the last 4 outs to close out a 6-3 victory. And the next night, what if O'Neill's hamstring fails him and he doesn't get to Polonia's fly ball? C.Jones & Klesko would have both scored. Then the Braves win the game 2-1 and the series 4-1, and we never start our dynasty.

What if the Mick never got hurt in the '51 WS?

I don't want to get into the 2001 WS, because we played like crap almost the whole series and almost got away with it, but what if Brosius did throw to 1B? Or if Torre played the middle infielders at DP depth? The game may have gone into extra innings then. We had El Duque, and Brenly had Brian Anderson warming up in the pen (Johnson was PH for). Could we have pulled that one out?

[The Rolling Yankees]

What if the Yankees played a full season in 1994?

[JeanC]

Originally posted by Jersey Yankee
**cough-cough Roger Maris cough-cough**

Thank You Jersey Yankee! Pen thats okay....for being that early in the day

[Bot Destroyer]

What would happen if we didn't put Mariono Rivera in against the D'backs?

[The Rolling Yankees]

What if Billy Martin went into rehab around '79/'80?

[C. Bellinger]

Apologies if some of these have been repeated

1. What if Bochy puts in Hoffman for just ONE inning in Game 3 of '98 World Series? What if John Vander Wal is the pinch hitter at the end of the game, not Andy Sheets? If the Padres win Game 3, does that change the course of the series?

2. What if Rey Ordonez was healthy for the 2000 World Series? Would he field Luis Sojo's grounder? Would that make any difference?

3. What if Timo Perez ran home?

4. What if Piniella starts Freddy Garcia on 3 days rest in the 2001 ALCS (doesn't matter, he'd have to start Sele some time)? All I know is, if it came down to Game 7 with Jamie Moyer on the mound, ouch. Moyer was invincible that year in the postseason.

5. What if Brenly acts like a real manager in the 2001 World Series?

6. What if Chesbro doesn't throw a wild pitch in 1904? What if there was a Series that year? Would that start another dynasty altogether?

7. What if Joe McCarthy brings Spud Chandler up earlier in 1940?

8. What if the Yanks kept McGriff in 1982 (don't think this would make a whole lot of difference in the long run)?

9. What if the Yankees didn't trade for Knoblauch?

10. What if Miller Huggins didn't die so early?

11. What if Kenny Rogers doesn't walk home the winning run in the NLCS and the Mets somehow win it all? Does the '99 Series change?

12. What if Ken Griffey Jr. had good memories of being a youngster in Yankee Stadium?

13. What if World War II never happened? Would the Yankees '40s dynasty EVER end?

14. What if the Yankees didn't fire Yogi Berra in '65? (I say no difference)

15. What if George Costanza is not traded to Tyler Chicken?

[Bot Destroyer]

What if we won?

[1TonHumanHamsterWheel]

Here's another one that still bugs me about Game 7 in '01. We had just tied the game at 1 in the top of the 7th and had 2 on with 2 out. Shane Spencer hit a long fly ball into the gap in right center on which Steve Finley made a great running catch to end the inning. But what if he didn't get such a good jump on that ball? We would have taken a 3-1 lead then. Does Schilling stay in the game after that? If so, does he still give up the homer to Soriano (which would have then made it 5-1!) and put us in control? Would Clemens still start the 7th, or would he even stay in longer than he did? Would Johnson come in the game at all? Would Rivera have to pitch more than an inning, and would he throw differently with a bigger lead?

But if you play "what if" the other way, we could have easily been swept that series.