If this is a keeper league..

[Bozidar]

Then these trade objections become more and more important.

Look, i feel like i'm being a sourpuss about the whole thing, raining on everyone's parade (incidentally, it's a parade to Pete's house and his parents aren't home to stop you from wrecking the joint).

When I object to a trade, I seriously feel that there could be a long-term impact on the league. When unbalanced trades go through, it has more than a "we'll try to fix it next year" effect on the league -- it could effect it for years.

I'm sorry i keep stepping on toes to try to keep things fair, but i'm not gonna turn French and give up just because the job i'm trying to do ain't a happy one.

[terry14420]

Mickey Rivers, Ed Figueroa, Graig Nettles, Chris Chambliss, Sparky Lyle, Willie Randolph, Paul Blair, etc. Remember these guys? All obtained in trades that helped bring a championship to NY. Somewhere there were owners objecting to the way Gabe Paul was raping teams back then but what the hell. It's a part of the game, always will be and accept it, fantasy or real.

[Ansky39]

Originally posted by Bozidar
Then these trade objections become more and more important.

Look, i feel like i'm being a sourpuss about the whole thing, raining on everyone's parade (incidentally, it's a parade to Pete's house and his parents aren't home to stop you from wrecking the joint).

When I object to a trade, I seriously feel that there could be a long-term impact on the league. When unbalanced trades go through, it has more than a "we'll try to fix it next year" effect on the league -- it could effect it for years.

I'm sorry i keep stepping on toes to try to keep things fair, but i'm not gonna turn French and give up just because the job i'm trying to do ain't a happy one.

agreed & well said sir...

[Big_E]

Originally posted by terry14420
Mickey Rivers, Ed Figueroa, Graig Nettles, Chris Chambliss, Sparky Lyle, Willie Randolph, Paul Blair, etc. Remember these guys? All obtained in trades that helped bring a championship to NY. Somewhere there were owners objecting to the way Gabe Paul was raping teams back then but what the hell. It's a part of the game, always will be and accept it, fantasy or real.

True, but we can't trade for draft picks, or cash, or minor leaguers. We're not looking to cut our budget in order to make a profit. And really, there's no guarantee that everyone will be back next season, even in a keeper league, so whats to stop someone from trading someone like Tim Hudson, a 3rd round pick and potential keeper for Andy Fox?

And as we saw just this week in MLB the Commissioner's office can void a deal.

[Soriambi]

Originally posted by Ansky39


agreed & well said sir...

I just don't understand how this is an issue, I really don't. I can't keep either of the players I am getting, so how is it going to have a long term impact? It just doesn't make sense...they're one year deals...

[Ansky39]

Originally posted by terry14420
Mickey Rivers, Ed Figueroa, Graig Nettles, Chris Chambliss, Sparky Lyle, Willie Randolph, Paul Blair, etc. Remember these guys? All obtained in trades that helped bring a championship to NY. Somewhere there were owners objecting to the way Gabe Paul was raping teams back then but what the hell. It's a part of the game, always will be and accept it, fantasy or real.

yeah but the key to any system is the assumption of rational players... rational players will always operate in their own best interests w/in the confines of the system.... but just like w/ the un all it takes is one irrational player to destroy the delicate balance of the entire system...

rational players have a common appreciation of value... here it's the value assigned by any of a myriad of player rankings... in the cases you list, that value may be in the form of money or player potential... it'd be a different story if we had a pay league w/ transaction costs and a cash prize, then perhaps the analogy to mlb may work, but in this league, a bad trade is just that, a bad trade, no economic factors to balance it out...

really, every league i'm in allows owners to collectively prevent bad trades... some have undroppable players to prevent one guy from quitting and dumping his entire team... in more competitive leagues 100% of the owners have a common appreciation for the player values and if there is on rare occasion what amount to a unbalanced trade proposal it gets shot down by almost unanimous consent.. if it appears unbalanced and it doesn't get shot down that's because some of the owners have some inside tip, like a guy being dinged and it's usually reflected in the vote...

[terry14420]

Well then, quit complaining and yank the teams away from everyone you feel is screwing things up.

[Ansky39]

Originally posted by Soriambi


I just don't understand how this is an issue, I really don't. I can't keep either of the players I am getting, so how is it going to have a long term impact? It just doesn't make sense...they're one year deals...

hey kev nuthin personal bro' you know that, but i gotta protest what appears to be unbalanced trades even if it hurst me like this objection does since imo the team in my div will be gettin aprreciably weaker if this deal goes thru... i just have one vote and i will never lobby for other owners to object w/ me, but i gotta vote my conscience... i don't look at the teams involved as much as the players involved and imho it don't add up...

i wish ya luck, i'm sure me and boz are the only two whiners to object here, but just the same, some of these trades man it's like wtf...

[Ansky39]

Originally posted by terry14420
Well then, quit complaining and yank the teams away from everyone you feel is screwing things up.

no comment... :bad-ass:

[Big_E]

Originally posted by terry14420
Well then, quit complaining and yank the teams away from everyone you feel is screwing things up.

FBL contraction?:rolleyes:

[terry14420]

You guys are such experts. Why don't you just tell everyone what's gonna happen this season and we'll all go bet on it.

[Bozidar]

Originally posted by Big_E
FBL contraction?:rolleyes:

LMAO!!!

I think that's a bit extreme

perhaps relocation could work.....

[terry14420]

It's just a shame you guys are all wasting your vast knowledge like this. I haven't seen this much crying since I drove past Graceland.

[Saxmania]

Guys: chill.

I'm sorry to everyone that this isn't going as smoothly as last year, because I thought the 2002 league was fun, light-hearted, and well-contested. If I can make an honest suggestion, I think we should take it easy, listen to other people with consideration, and try this:

Don't make a trade unless you're pretty confident it'll go through.

Personally, I don't intend to trade until at least a month in, unless injuries hit hard, because I want to see how my draft does. (All right, so far it's sucking.) I think there are a surprising number of trades going down - perhaps partly because people are trading for the sake of trading.

But it really is just a game. There's no prize for winning (as far as I know) and no punishment for losing. I came out with a losing record last year, and I'm still perfectly happy to get another whupping this year.

This is supposed to be FUN, dagnabbit!

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

[Bozidar]

Sax -- i agree with everything you just said. Well said.

however.. i'm still gonna rag on people who make dumbass deals

This whole thing going on isn't yer fault, sax.. don't take it personally.

[Ansky39]

Originally posted by terry14420
You guys are such experts. Why don't you just tell everyone what's gonna happen this season and we'll all go bet on it.

[Ansky39]

Originally posted by terry14420
It's just a shame you guys are all wasting your vast knowledge like this. I haven't seen this much crying since I drove past Graceland.

[Ansky39]

Originally posted by Saxmania
Guys: chill.

I'm sorry to everyone that this isn't going as smoothly as last year, because I thought the 2002 league was fun, light-hearted, and well-contested. If I can make an honest suggestion, I think we should take it easy, listen to other people with consideration, and try this:

Don't make a trade unless you're pretty confident it'll go through.

Personally, I don't intend to trade until at least a month in, unless injuries hit hard, because I want to see how my draft does. (All right, so far it's sucking.) I think there are a surprising number of trades going down - perhaps partly because people are trading for the sake of trading.

But it really is just a game. There's no prize for winning (as far as I know) and no punishment for losing. I came out with a losing record last year, and I'm still perfectly happy to get another whupping this year.

This is supposed to be FUN, dagnabbit!

Be seeing you,

Saxmania

well stated sir...

for the record, i was gonna stick by my first response which was basically resigned indifference... i figured last year was great, everyone competitive and knowledgeable, but that was last year and this year we gotta just accept the fact that it ain't the same.. no porob, i got 5 other teams in pay leagues, i can handle one bad year in our league... i even used my favorite sox fan line to my pal when i told him "i can't wait til next year..." until i was reminded by other owners of the long term implications of not actively participating...

now i have no problem sending my objections through yahoo but you asked that we post it here... i posted it here was asked why and responded w/ why... i'm not not lobbying for support for my take, (and that's all it is, not gospel like some may suggest) but if asked i will be str8 up..

i will add that i've been as respectful and as responsive as you can expect, but some choose to return it w/ sarcasm... this league ain't that serious and neither is fantasy baseball in general, (unless you're gettin paid) but for those that choose to resort to sarcasm, please save it, it loses it's impact when it's posted on the net as opposed to delivered in person... i object it's nothing personal, no reason anyone else should get their thongs in a bunch...

[Soriambi]

Originally posted by Bozidar

This whole thing going on isn't yer fault, sax.. don't take it personally.

Agreed, it's definately not your fault.

Oh, and btw, LMAO at the contraction comment.

[Hitman23]

Originally posted by Ansky39
i figured last year was great, everyone competitive and knowledgeable, but that was last year and this year we gotta just accept the fact that it ain't the same.. no porob, i got 5 other teams in pay leagues, i can handle one bad year in our league...

hey!!

Originally posted by Ansky39
this league ain't that serious

again, hey!! I'm taking it seriously!!

is everyone else taking this as seriously as I am? if not I won't put so much effort into it. I dunno, the more serious I take it the more fun I have, but it's ruined if everyone feels like it's not.

[Yankchic22]

Im taking it serious, now that Im doing so well. I thought (and so did everyone else) that my team would suck

[#1PaFan]

I'm certainly taking it serious. Serious enough to respect the awesome one hitter my opponent's Reliever is throwing right now against the Tigers in the fifth inning.

Oh well.....

[SanFrANSKY]

I would just like to say that one of the joys of being in a fantasy league is picking apart each other's trades and moves. In the league I run, it seems almost every single waiver move is questions, debated, derided, etc. Second-guessing each other is part of the deal, and I think the tone of the discussion here has been for the most part positive.

As for the issue of inexperienced owners, that'll happen in any public league, especially with so many teams.

So sit back, relax, enjoy, and make lots of fun of the dumbass moves I'm about to make!

P.S. Georgie, next time you should take that deal I offered!

[Hitman23]

I'm glad people are taking it seriously. I mean what fun is it going to be when I become the champion if none of you care?

[#1PaFan]

Originally posted by SanFrANSKY

P.S. Georgie, next time you should take that deal I offered!

Perhaps Bro.

Hey, I don't feel anybody on my team is "untouchable." I just go with a strategy in drafting a team. (Even though a bunch of ................ing Yahoos drafted FOR me this time. ) I like to give it more than a WEEK to see how I think it's all going to work out. Then, I try to plug the holes where I can, work the waiver wire, and make trades if needed.

With that being said, I think some of this player movement was savvy and some insipid. But, that's Baseball! EVERYBODY is a Genius!

I'll stop yappin' right now...

[Ansky39]

Originally posted by Hitman23

hey!!

again, hey!! I'm taking it seriously!!

is everyone else taking this as seriously as I am? if not I won't put so much effort into it. I dunno, the more serious I take it the more fun I have, but it's ruined if everyone feels like it's not.

sorry steve, i didn't mean to imply that i don't take this league serious, but quite the contrary... if you would have quoted the rest of my post you may have followed my point...

Originally posted by Ansky39



now i have no problem sending my objections through yahoo but you asked that we post it here... i posted it here was asked why and responded w/ why... i'm not not lobbying for support for my take, (and that's all it is, not gospel like some may suggest) but if asked i will be str8 up..

i will add that i've been as respectful and as responsive as you can expect, but some choose to return it w/ sarcasm... this league ain't that serious and neither is fantasy baseball in general, (unless you're gettin paid) but for those that choose to resort to sarcasm, please save it, it loses it's impact when it's posted on the net as opposed to delivered in person... i object it's nothing personal, no reason anyone else should get their thongs in a bunch...

my point was my initial response to the latetst BLEEP trade was resigned indifference, i didn't even object initially, because i felt like i said my peice w/ the previous 2 or 3 BLEEPITY BLEEP trades and it seemed to fall on deaf ears and i started to get a complex like i was the only one, (well me and boz ) taking this as serious as last seas... i didn't want to seem like i was bitching about every trade like a sore loser or somethin and ruin the fun part for evryone else who seemed indifferent to the outcome of some of these BLEEPITY FRIGGIN BLEEP trades...

but i was reminded that there are other owners out there just as concerned yet perhaps not as vocal in their concern... now according to sax we're supposed to express our approval or objection here as opposed to yahoo if i recall correctly.. well after i decided to object along w/ boz, i was asked why i objected.. i answered respecfully... boz also explained his reasons for objecting... but for some in this particular thread, this was not following league procedure, but rather "crying..." now i can take a joke about as well as anyone, but how did we go from discussing the merits or lack there of of this GOSH DARN BLEEPITY FRIGGIN BLEEP trade to slamming those of us who voice our objections per league rules as cry babies...

anyways, i refuse to get involved in name calling as you can see by my previous responses (and if the person who labeleld our objections as crying was just talking tongue in cheek, kool beans, although it's impossible to tell from written text especially when you don't know the person) but really, this is supposed to be fun, and it's also supposed to based in reality... no way in hell does a helton and hudson get traded for brian jordan and anyone...

last year this league moved thru smoothly albeit one minor blip that still hasn't been alleviated... i blame myself more than anyone cuz i wasn't here in the offseas to assist our most diligent commisoner... i just hope we can get on the right track this seas... we got some great baseball minds in here... i love the competition more than anything... like seein PA Fan snag a waiver wire player before i can get my hands on him, or witnessing differnet strategies employed by san fran or coney36.. i don't care as much about winning or losing as i do about the integrity of the game... w/o it, this is a complete waste of time...

hope i cleared it up a lil and i profusely apologize if i ruffled any feathers...

now let's play some BLEEPITY FRIGGIN BLEEP BASEBALL

[#1PaFan]

Hey Kurt!

You're the King of the Hill. I'm gonna knock ya off that Hill, Bitch.

:bad-ass:

[Ansky39]

Originally posted by #1PaFan
Hey Kurt!

You're the King of the Hill. I'm gonna knock ya off that Hill, Bitch.

:bad-ass:

BLEEP you george and your fantasy MUTTS!!!!

p.s. and stop hawkin the friggin waiver wire...

[Hitman23]

Originally posted by Ansky39
sorry steve, i didn't mean to imply that i don't take this league serious, but quite the contrary... if you would have quoted the rest of my post you may have followed my point...

you're right, I probably shouldn't have just quoted what stuck out, but those two things really did and I wanted to address them. I wanted you to know that there is someone taking this seriously and I am trying to be as competitive as possible. I didn't want all the people who have been doing this long to lose interest. This is my first year doing fantasy baseball ever, and I dove right into two teams, one of which stands to make me about $500 if I win.

As far as the trade problems, as a rookie unless something is glaringly ridiculous I'm kind of keeping my mouth shut. There seemed to be enough people opposing this last trade that I thought it would get vetoed. But for the record I didn't agree either. I have no problem with anyone opposing trades, I don't think anyone is a crybaby. In fact, I was the one who suggested that we have a comittee evaluate and accept any and all trades before they go through. If you all need extra voices, I'll take part in it from now on.

[patrick.o]

Well, the reason I haven't been very vocal is because I've never really encountered a problem like this before and I'm not really sure what the best course of action is. I've played fantasy football and hockey for years and it's always been in private leagues with people who are very astute and not easily taken advantage of, whether on purpose or not. And all due apologies to Pete, but I've never heard of someone trading their first 5 draft picks at all, never mind before the second week of the season is even over. It's kind of mind boggling.

My own stance has always been that there should be no trade interference of any kind by the other owners unless it's apparent there is some level of collusion going on. This is the first time that I've ever questioned if that's the best course to take, and to be honest I just don't what to do. I mean, if I make a deal I don't want people vetoing it because they think I got too good of a deal. I'm trying to get good deals, you know? But at the same time it's hard to sit by and watch teams make big improvements without giving up closely comparable talent.

Anyway, I certainly take my teams seriously, and I have a couple championships and quite a few other playoff appearances to show for it. And I plan on winning this league, too, with or without a whole bunch of unusual trades!

[#1PaFan]

Have I told you Son that I am proud of you?

Exactly! Goddamnit.

[BrianNYYanks]

Listen, I do pay league fantasy baseball and football and don't get this much whining about trades. If a guy is uninformed and agrees to a trade that's on him. It is not going to throw of the competitiveness of the league. People take it serious and it is fun for a lot of us. But, when a guy or lady hits that agree to trade its like bidding on an ebay auction. You live with your consequences. The only problem would be if toward the end of the season people gave up and staked their freinds or put one good team together to split the pot. But anyone in this league right now is competitive and wants to win.

You can rib and make fun of trades etc., but why stop them.

Let them play!

[terry14420]

Exactly. Here here.

[#1PaFan]

Originally posted by BrianNYYanks
If a guy is uninformed and agrees to a trade that's on him.

It's not "a trade." It's trade, after trade, after trade, after trade, after trade.

Read the thread. There are legitimate concerns.

[BrianNYYanks]

There are no real concerns, some leagues have a couple teams that are dogs. Just like the Tigers 0-9.

The only problem could be trading for draft picks or dratf position next year. You just can't do it not here.

Any keeper drafted then traded, loses keeper rights and the new team does Not obtain the keeper rights.

[Bozidar]

There's a difference between a team that's a dog, and a team that empties it's talent pool foolishly because it's owner is 15 years old.

[Big_E]

Originally posted by BrianNYYanks
Any keeper drafted then traded, loses keeper rights and the new team does Not obtain the keeper rights.

Not sure what you mean by this. In any trade here, draft position is accepted (like a contract) by the new owner. A 20th round pick is still a 20th round pick, and can be a keeper. A 1st round pick is still a 1st round pick, and cannot be kept.

[BrianNYYanks]

One 15 year old can be a dog, If he plays like a fifteen year old yes. Still every one who plays him or her has the equal opportunity to beat them. It is about equality after all isn't it.


Big E, what you say is true, but what I am saying is if you trade a player he is not a true keeper therefore you reliquish his rights and he enters the talent pool for next year.