... and how would she be received? Worse than Jackie Robinson?
Singleton and Kay were discussing this burning issue on the YES broadcast just now ...
Opinions, anyone?
... and how would she be received? Worse than Jackie Robinson?
Singleton and Kay were discussing this burning issue on the YES broadcast just now ...
Opinions, anyone?
I'm sure that with all of the women in the world there are some that could make it in the majors. I don't know what kind of reception they would get, but I don't think it would necessarily be very positive. She would need special accomodations and I don't think people would like that. I personally would have no problem with a women playing in the majors, as long as she had the same level of talent as all the guys.
I wont touch this one with a ten foot pole...
Palmer killed Billy Mays
Babe Didrikson, didn't she play in the majors? Sorry, I'm not very good with my history facts.
"I told them, 'You guys [Prior and Wood] are good,'" Dunston said. "'But this guy [Maddux] is the best.'"
Babe was in golf.
No.
I know that's not the politically correct answer, but that's what I'm going to say.
And I don't think it has anything to do with skill level or talent or ability or desire.
But I don't think the ballplayers and owners would take it well. But I don't think it would be a sexist think, I just think it would be because of the extra hassels. You couldn't have women changing in the same locker room as men, and teams aren't going to want to build another locker room. And it's a sexual harrassment law suit waiting to happen. They problems and headaches are too big for ballplayers and owners to want to go down that road.
And I don't think that women could handle the press. And that's not because women aren't strong enough to handle the press, I think it would be because of the press creating issues out of nothing. You think the press was hard on Giambi when he came to New York, Ichiro when he came over from Japan, Barry Bonds when he was chasing Mark McGwire's record, McGwire when he was chasing Roger Maris' record, Maris when he was chasing the Babe's record, Jackie Robinson when he broke into the majors?
That would be absolutely nothing compared to what a woman would have to deal with if she tried to break into the majors.
Like I said, it has nothing to do with the talent, ability, or desire of women. And it might happen some time in the near or distant future. But right now, the world isn't ready for women in the big leagues. Case in point: if the world was ready for women in men's sports leagues, there would be no WNBA.
I've watched college softball teams, and some of the chicks are already swinging alluminum bats that are close to the MLB stats (~30 some ounces, 34 inch bat?). So size isn't a problem. Defense wise, well, some of them are just plain outstanding, I believe the UCLA catcher was supposidly the best female catcher in the world- and several scouts said that at the MLB level she could do extremely well.
Some of the women are also world class track atheletes- tacking on another 30 feet (softball fields are 1/3 smaller than a standard baseball field if I remmeber) wouldn't be a problem. They are capable.
So, in terms of actual skill- I don't think that would or will be a problem; women CAN play, women can be up there with men. Maybe not in terms of HR hitting..but damn, probably could be some crazy mini Ichiro's..fast, small..I mean, Ichiro isn't that big. Women could follow.
But..society would NOT like this. Especially after reading comments that women aren't as good as male sports commentators..
Baseball is a very, very old sport. Breaking the gender barrier would be..well, near impossible. Can you imagine the scorn from other players? Even the most likeable players I'm sure would not like it. Imagine, having seperate locker rooms..! Surely they would not like it.
And I dont think a WMLB or a professional softball league would be that great. The WNBA is still a joke to many many people...sadly.
There are a lot of great softball players out there..If women could make it, I'd say the positions would most likely be either catcher or an outfield position. Softball catchers, from what I've seen, are the biggest players in softball . And the top pitchers are throwing 70 MPH+. They could catch guys like Abbot and other soft ballers.
If women can play in professional hockey (I believe this was in '95?), trust me, chicks can do baseball.
I am convinced women CAN play with the men.
Whether or not society will allow it remains yet to be seen.
That would be one JACKED, MANLY, BIG, woman.
Seriously. To be a MLB pitcher you have to be about 6 foot or taller. What are most women, 5'4, 5'5? Forget about her being a position player...
For a woman to make it to rookie ball is considered an incredible achievement and it NEVER happens. So I'd say that it is just about impossible for a woman to make it. About a 0.0000000000000001% chance.
Hell, it's just about impossible for most men to make it. Every boy in America dreams of becoming a MLB player.
I dunno, some of the BEST softball players top 5'5...Chuck Knoblauch was 5'8..and until '98, he was a DAMNED good second baseman who DID NOT HIT HOME RUNS. I'm betting a female Chuck could be a damn good 2Bman or SS (them SStops were SMALL back in the day- look at Scooter!). Chicks could hit for singles, double- just be a lil' machine like Chuck was- Chuck did NOT HAVE THAT MUCH POWER. Women could be faster..steal bases..Originally posted by SkooterPhil#10
That would be one JACKED, MANLY, BIG, woman.
Seriously. To be a MLB pitcher you have to be about 6 foot or taller. What are most women, 5'4, 5'5? Forget about her being a position player...
trust me...
No.
I'm amazed no one has cracked:
"Didn't you see NJ tonight? they're already here.."
I thought of it hours ago, and couldn't hold it back anymore
Just a joke, folx.. no offense.
I also think that it's virutally impossible for a female to play in the bigs, and the treatment and such that she would get would make it unbareable.
Please. Let's not insult all the great hitting women...Originally posted by Bozidar
:
"Didn't you see NJ tonight? they're already here.."
A 4 year old girl with the flu could've done better than NJ and White combined..:rolleyes:
I was able to witness firsthand femal baseball. I saw a game in which the "Coors Light Silver Bullets" played. For those of you who never heard of this team - coors held tryouts for any women that had ever played/plays softball/baseball to make an all women traveling team. It was coached by phil nekro i believe.
They started off playing minor league teams, and with the constant shellackings they received, they began to lower the level of their competition. Before long they were playing teams in over 40 leagues. My older brother was playing semi-pro ball at the time, and faced the bullets at the NJ cardinals complex. Besides his pitcher (accidentally) HBP the first two batters, that was about all the skill I saw out of this team. They lost something like 13-0 or 14-0. They just couldn't make plays- they made like 5 or 6 errors. Plus they lacked the power to hit anything more then drop-in singles.
The WNBA has failed for one reason; the same reason the XFL failed. People aren't interested in substandard play - from a woman or man.
I just don't think women are physically built for pro sports.
Umm....
just some random thought...
- this is a men's sport
- would pitchers maybe pitch extra careful to her, in order not to hurt her ?
- i have nothing against women's baseball, but not together with men..
- doing a rough sport with men and women together causes trouble, i made that experience quite often in school..
- i'm sure there are women with better skills then some minor leaguers or even some majorleaguers... but look at point #1...
There has to be some woman out there with the physical abilities to play in the majors. Only problem is that softball mechanics are taught differently than hardball and that gives them a big disadvantage over time. Still, I'd have no problem with a woman on the team if she could get the job done.
I do, however, have a problem with woman play-by-play announcers. I'd trade Suzie-Cue Waldman for a utility backup woman infielder in a heartbeat.
There are women who could play in the majors and do as well as the men. However, I don't think some men are ready yet to accept women on their teams.It's sad but true. I'm sure that someday there will be coed major league teams. I'm just not sure if we'll ever see it!
Pedro is 5'11", Chuckie and Suzuki and both 5'9" (in elevator shoes, of course). Rickey Henderson is 5'10". Lots of excellent players under 6' tall. Heck, there was even HOFer Wee Willey Keller, who invented the phrase "hit 'em where they ain't", to explain how a 5'4" man could be such a prolific hitter (19 seasons, .341 BA, 495 SB, 2932 H).Originally posted by SkooterPhil#10
That would be one JACKED, MANLY, BIG, woman.
Seriously. To be a MLB pitcher you have to be about 6 foot or taller. What are most women, 5'4, 5'5? Forget about her being a position player...
For a woman to make it to rookie ball is considered an incredible achievement and it NEVER happens. So I'd say that it is just about impossible for a woman to make it. About a 0.0000000000000001% chance.
I don't know of any women's college baseball programs offhand, but they'd have to come straight from there, since the minor leagues don't have women either. I don't expect a women's minor league anytime either.
Between her having to shower after all the guys (they'll be mutiny and mayhem if she gets preferential treatment, not to mention what the Players Assoc. would think of this), the fact is, many guys do "see" different women on the road and who's to say some comment isn't misunderstood as being of a sexual nature? Or that some guy actually is hitting on her.
Someone mentioned that the person would likely be a pitcher. If so, how many women, regardless of size, have the endurance to go 7 innings in a MLB game? There are certainly well-conditioned marathoners athletes but between the lack of minor league professional playing time against other players also trying to make it into the bigs, just how good can her skills be if they're not tested in the farm? Sounds like an NBA player who came straight from HS w/o playing college ball first. Something about learning the fundamentals of the game start to count, despite someone's obvious "great talent and/or potential".
It seems like a nice idea but unless someone actually figures out how it's going to work, it'll probably stay just that.
Dr King (1929-68) A dream is forgotten unless others carry on.
Get up ... get up ...; Black Moses (he ain't no chef); Isn't she Lovely? (Aisha); Fear the 'Fro; A slow roller to 1st ...
I cant help myself...
At least they could blame slumps on their menstrual cycle...
Palmer killed Billy Mays
First thing, Chuck is 5'9" and he is JACKED! We all know what women physically NEED to do in order to build significant muscle...take steroids. Testosterone. They don't have the right hormones to be as strong as MLB players. Trust me, Chuck is very strong.Originally posted by WindRavenX
I dunno, some of the BEST softball players top 5'5...Chuck Knoblauch was 5'8..and until '98, he was a DAMNED good second baseman who DID NOT HIT HOME RUNS. I'm betting a female Chuck could be a damn good 2Bman or SS (them SStops were SMALL back in the day- look at Scooter!). Chicks could hit for singles, double- just be a lil' machine like Chuck was- Chuck did NOT HAVE THAT MUCH POWER. Women could be faster..steal bases..
trust me...
As for "faster"...women have always, always posted slower times in every track event ever. Ever notice that the first placer at marathons is always a guy?
Plus, how would a woman get good at baseball? It is completely different from Softball. The bat, the ball, the field, almost everything is different.
BTW, a softball bat is 30 inches, 20 ounces or 34 in, 24 oz. MLB bats are 34, 32 or 32, 30.
The New Kid
Author: Mike Makley ©
Published: 1975
Appeared In: The New Kid
Our baseball team never did very much,
we had me and PeeWee and Earl and Dutch.
And the Oak Street Tigers always got beat
until the new kid moved in on our street.
The kid moved in with a mitt and a bat
and an official New York Yankee hat.
The new kid plays shortstop or second base
and can outrun us all in any place.
The kid never muffs a grounder or fly
no matter how hard it's hit or how high.
And the new kid always acts quite polite,
never yelling or spitting or starting a fight.
We were playing the league champs just last week;
they were trying to break our winning streak.
In the last inning the score was one-one,
when the new kid swung and hit a home run.
A few of the kids and their parents say
they don't believe that the new kid should play.
But she's good as me, Dutch, PeeWee or Earl,
so we don't care that the new kid's a girl
No....Women should just stick to the kitchen and bedroom where they belong. Lol im just kidding for all the ladies on this board...just a joke...i have a sister and a mother so calm down lol.
oh wow. You had me going, there, for a while. lolOriginally Posted by djhitman01
No....Women should just stick to the kitchen and bedroom where they belong. Lol im just kidding for all the ladies on this board...just a joke...i have a sister and a mother so calm down lol.
If I had 3 wishes... One of my wishes would be to make a select few of you Pirates Fans.
You don't say?No....Women should just stick to the kitchen and bedroom where they belong. Lol im just kidding for all the ladies on this board...just a joke...i have a sister and a mother so calm down lol.
I doubt they would even have a menstrual cycle after all that lifting!Originally posted by NYYFAN
I cant help myself...
At least they could blame slumps on their menstrual cycle...
What are the men blaming theirs on? Premature Balding, Impotence, or just plain ole Jock Itch? Please :rolleyes:Originally posted by NYYFAN
I cant help myself...
At least they could blame slumps on their menstrual cycle...
back to the subject - can women someday play at the Major League Level? I think so. Will they do it in my lifetime? Probably not. I don't even think there's gender integrated professional bowling leagues yet.
Good point!!! And it brings up a valid point, for a female to play major league ball, they do they have to lose their female attributes?Originally posted by SkooterPhil#10
I doubt they would even have a menstrual cycle after all that lifting!
I thought a slump was due to some burnout where you can't do squat for awhile. Must be temporary cluelessness.Originally posted by toots
What are the men blaming theirs on? Premature Balding, Impotence, or just plain ole Jock Itch? Please :rolleyes:
back to the subject - can women someday play at the Major League Level? I think so. Will they do it in my lifetime? Probably not. I don't even think there's gender integrated professional bowling leagues yet.
For women in the bigs, how would this happen and where would she play? I think that for women in men's sports, I remember SI model Kathy Ireland once played in a TV movie a woman place kicker on a football team (unsure if NFL or college ball). She kicked the winning goal, the team won a big game. I think that's great in a less used position, but in baseball, which position isn't used?
If she's a position player, she must hit (or at least try to or she'll be mercilessly derided by the hounding press). 1B seems like a less rangy position than, say, SS, but 1B also requires lots of vertical leaping for bad throws from 3B, SS, 2B, then good pickoff ability (though these usually don't work). 1B is definitely a slugger's position (Gehrig, Jimmie Fox, Willie Stargell, Big Mac, Willie McCovey, Dan Brouthers, etc).
C requires a strong arm to throw out runners, then there's blocking the plate, 3B requires pivoting and a quick throw, SS is probably the most athletic, requiring lots of rangy, off-balance, cross-town throws in time to catch the speedy runners, 2B is also an athletic position, a highly important element in the DP.
I'd forget the OF, since there's lots of room to cover in a larger field than softball, so great hand/eye/glove coordination is expected, plus wheels and/or a strong arm is almost always required, especially in RF, who _MUST_ be able to throw strongly to 3B.
For a pitcher, she'd have to pitch every single pitch for about 6 or 7 innings. How many women can or have ever done this for that amount of time in baseball?
I think the ball is much bigger and softer in softball than baseballs. If they allow aluminum bats, she'd have to practice pitching against hitters using wooden bats.
This draws me to the ?: if she were to play in the MLB, which position would she play? If that ? isn't answered, how seriously can the proposal possibly be?
Dr King (1929-68) A dream is forgotten unless others carry on.
Get up ... get up ...; Black Moses (he ain't no chef); Isn't she Lovely? (Aisha); Fear the 'Fro; A slow roller to 1st ...
This may be going a bit too far but female bodybuilders experience a deepening of the voice, facial hair, menstrual irregularities, breast reduction, sterility, baldness and...eh...an enlarged clitorisOriginally posted by NYYFAN
Good point!!! And it brings up a valid point, for a female to play major league ball, they do they have to lose their female attributes?
I did not wish to part with this issue, but I have come to say this:
If women play in the big leagues, then where are they going to dress? Would they dress coed with men, only to have the men stare at the women's body parts? This would be one of the biggest concerns. Also, how would that woman swing a bat as strong as 34/32, 33/31, or 32/30. Would she have to choke up to the end of the handle? I am not an expert in this topic, but women in the big leagues will probably never happen. Don't get me wrong, it could, but the chances are slim to none.
If a woman were to play in the big leagues it would have to be as a pitcher. And probably a Jamie Moyer type pitcher, definitely not Clemens or Schilling. I don't think any woman will ever naturally have the physical abilities to be a position player.
Your scaring me Phil...!!!Originally posted by SkooterPhil#10
This may be going a bit too far but female bodybuilders experience a deepening of the voice, facial hair, menstrual irregularities, breast reduction, sterility, baldness and...eh...an enlarged clitoris
anyone out there that thinks a woman could compete in mlb needs to put the glue down.. they cannot physically do it.. there are probably a million men out there that aren't even good enough for minor league baseball that are better than the best woman baseball player..
if there were women out there that could compete in football, basketball, or baseball they would be playing.. it has nothing to do with accomodations or anything of the sort.. owners want to win.. bottom line..
Can you imagine the ................ they'd take if they went into a slump?
"She was obviously on the rag!"
I wouldn't wish that kinda thing on anyone..
Women complete marathons and IronMan or Woman contests all the time, so endurance isn't an issue. I'm sure plenty of women could take the rigors of pitching 7 innings every fifth day. The problem is that even in games that don't require physical contact women are, for lack of a better word, inferior. Women's golf tees are closer to the hole than mens, male runners and weight lifters would make a mockery of competition with women, Pete Sampras would destroy Jen Capriati. That's why we don't compete against each other. That fact is just that as men we are naturally stronger, faster, have quicker reflexes, etc. That's why all those years ago we became the hunters instead of the women - we were more likely to catch our prey. So while a woman would probably be able to last 100 pitches, it would be unlikely that she could get many batters out. Her pitchers would likely be slower and have less movement. As far as hitting, her bat speed would be slower, in the field her throws would be weaker, etc.
So, while I think it's likely that a woman will someday play in the majors, it will have to be a very gifted athlete of a woman - much more gifted than what it takes for a man to make the majors.
Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds - Robert Nesta Marley
Well, most do anyway.Originally posted by KLJ
owners want to win.. bottom line..
Just in case anyone wonders about brute strength comparisons between women and men, here are some official ones in both American and National competition from a reliable source. The powerlifts are:
Parallel Squat
Bench Press
Deadlift
http://www.usapowerlifting.com/records/index.shtml
Please visit this gallery if unfamiliar with what some of the lifts look like:
http://www.powerlifting.com/cfgallery.cfm
Please note that the weights listed in the first link are in pounds, not kilograms. The total represents the sum total of the highest poundage each lifter has successfully completed (3 attempts per lift, I think).
I wanna see a chick on Andro with a corked bat!
I'm sure that there are a number of women somewhere that could probably play some role on a major league team, but do women have to do everything that men do?
Think of all the political correctness problems that could arise with traditional baseball phrases:
a) That pitch was in her kitchen.
b) She's a punch and judy hitter.
c) Will she attempt the squeeze play?
d) She's on fire.
e) She can really handle a bat.
f) Play ball.
Sounds like a problem waiting to happen.
sure why not?
women are just as good as men if not better
AND I AM A GUY SAYING THIS!
Would this be published in the scoreboard along with the pitching rotation?Originally posted by NYYFAN
I cant help myself...
At least they could blame slumps on their menstrual cycle...
It would only be a matter of time before Gammons or Bill James did a stat analyis...
I do not think so, but maybe....
I saw the Silver Bullets as well. They got rocked game after game. However, this was an entire team, not an individual playing on a men's team. They did have on woman who pitched a no hitter against a men's team. BTW, she did this while pitching underhanded in the fast-pitch softball style. Ila Borders pitched for the St. Paul Saints a few years back and got pummelled nearly every time.
If a woman were to make it, she would have to be a pitcher or infielder. Most likely a pitcher in the AL as I just do not see the bat strength.
Give me one example of how the best man at a certain sport is better than the best woman at the same sport.Originally posted by Butnud
sure why not?
women are just as good as men if not better
AND I AM A GUY SAYING THIS!
Tennis: Andre Agassi vs. Serena Williams? Gimme a break
Basketball: Shaquille O'Neal vs. Lisa Leslie?
Baseball: Barry Bonds vs. Patti Benedict?
Football: Brett Farve vs.....?
Golf: Tiger Woods vs. Annika Sorenstam?
Hockey: Jaromir Jagr vs....?
Weightlifting: Mark Henry vs ?
Lacrosse: Ryan Powell vs.
Wrestling: Cael Sanderson vs. ?
Swimming: Mark Spitz vs. ?
Short Run: Michael Johnson vs. Florence Griffith Joyner
Dist Bike: Lance Armstrong vs.
Dist Run: Toshihiko Seko vs. Karolina Szabo
Soccer: Carlos Ruiz vs. Mia Hamm
Boxing: Roy Jones Jr. vs. Laila Ali
Good post, Skoot. I don't know why I found some of those matchups so funny.Originally posted by SkooterPhil#10
Give me one example of how the best man at a certain sport is better than the best woman at the same sport.
Tennis: Andre Agassi vs. Serena Williams? Gimme a break
Basketball: Shaquille O'Neal vs. Lisa Leslie?
Baseball: Barry Bonds vs. Patti Benedict?
Football: Brett Farve vs.....?
Golf: Tiger Woods vs. Annika Sorenstam?
Hockey: Jaromir Jagr vs....?
Weightlifting: Mark Henry vs ?
Lacrosse: Ryan Powell vs.
Wrestling: Cael Sanderson vs. ?
Swimming: Mark Spitz vs. ?
Short Run: Michael Johnson vs. Florence Griffith Joyner
Dist Bike: Lance Armstrong vs.
Dist Run: Toshihiko Seko vs. Karolina Szabo
Soccer: Carlos Ruiz vs. Mia Hamm
Boxing: Roy Jones Jr. vs. Laila Ali
Please.If there were a woman capable of playing at the major league level,she would be there.
Do you honestly think the best woman player in the WNBA could compete in the NBA?The best golfer on the LPGA compete with the men?Picture her trying to drive with Tiger.
I'm not a sexist,I'm just stating the obvious.
just to play devils advocate here-a woman would not yet be cabable to play at the major league level. Equal funding for women's sports at the school level has only been mandated in my lifetime and women are still battling the stigma that if they like or play sports they are not right (read lesbian, masculine, dyke, butch,etc). Women have made great strides in athletics, in the short time they've had federally mandated funding. However the surface has merely been scratched when you compare them to the men.Originally posted by CJM
Please.If there were a woman capable of playing at the major league level,she would be there.
Do you honestly think the best woman player in the WNBA could compete in the NBA?The best golfer on the LPGA compete with the men?Picture her trying to drive with Tiger.
I'm not a sexist,I'm just stating the obvious.
The same agruments have been made about women firefighters, cops, construction workers, fighter pilots, etc. Women have broken the stigmas here and guess what? Society as we know it did not collapse. It will be the same for team sports, too.
The problem here isn't funding it's genetics...Originally posted by toots
just to play devils advocate here-a woman would not yet be cabable to play at the major league level. Equal funding for women's sports at the school level has only been mandated in my lifetime and women are still battling the stigma that if they like or play sports they are not right (read lesbian, masculine, dyke, butch,etc). Women have made great strides in athletics, in the short time they've had federally mandated funding. However the surface has merely been scratched when you compare them to the men.
The same agruments have been made about women firefighters, cops, construction workers, fighter pilots, etc. Women have broken the stigmas here and guess what? Society as we know it did not collapse. It will be the same for team sports, too.
I disagree-genetics plays a large part-Except for maybe being a place kicker I can't see a woman in the NFL. But I feel that before parity women weren't encouraged to fully develop their sports potential-we have yet to see the uber female athlete-she is decades away at least. But you can surely see that even in such a short span of time women have gotten faster, stronger, better.
Baseball is a sport where you don't have to be the biggest and baddest to be good-look at Ichiro. Some women have very athletic builds naturally and while we wont see Pam Anderson bouncing her way around the diamond, you will see someone like Mia Hamm or the Dr from the Olympian softball team.
Also, where genetic will play a role athletic types tend to be attracted to each other and their children will have those traits as well, and grow up in an atmosphere where they are encouraged to challenge themselves physically. Just as not every man can play at the pro level, not every (or many) woman will either. I just wouldn't rule out the possibility.
I think a woman with the talent and skill can.
Same thing was said about blacks way back when, so why is this different?
Society woudl be a barrier..but if we can put objects into deep space and men on the moon, id like to think a woman could play 3rd base.
just my 2 cents
I know I am late to the party here but I had to comment on this.
There is a greater physiological difference between men and women and same sex members of different races.
My short answer is No.
Corey Lidle: Once a Yankee, Always a Yankee.
I'm in your thread, stealing RYMASTER or Ryan_Yankees' identity.
I don't think so... I am sure there are women that are capable of doing things in the majors but I can't imagine it would ever happen...
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