LOL, this has been reported by everyone who has seen him, not one or two people, some of these morons like Manuel will never budge.Originally Posted by TheHugeUnit2
If you don't trust a Frankie Piliere who has his own gun, I mean really?
Plus when Patrick Teale saw him, he had the same #s and was sitting with a scout from another team who had the same #s and who told him he had been doing that in every start.
BA having difficulty admitting that they're wrong again on another Yankee prospect.
They need to stop depending on those Red Sox scouts if they want to get the straight dope.
I told him about PP, linked him to Frankie and said I think KG ot KLaw has him at 97 too and he said he trusted his source. I can't blame him for having trust but I kind of got turned off when I showed him more than two sources.
That's the entire point.
You spend mega dollars to get the Montero and Sanchez types- but not for the guys that are getting the big dollars this year. The Blue Jays went over $2M for a guy many are speculating has his upside as a reliever.
Yes, the Yanks ARE the richest team in baseball. However, just because you are the richest does not mean that you spend money just because you can. If you waste it, where is the return?
Remember, big money has no guarantee. Remember Irabu and Wily Mo Pena, or Henson? There is no problem with spending moderate sums of money on good players, but hold back the mega deals for stars.
Those are just examples of the Yankees spending wisely, not overspending. The Yankees didn't sign any other big names in either of those years, they spent on players they clearly scouted well. That's how drafts and IFA periods are won, not by spending more than other people for the sake of spending
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
Some posters right here call Frankie a fanboy. The guy was a scout for the Texas Rangers and wizards call him 'fanboy for the Yankees.' Got to love bbs.
Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.
He started as a writer for PinstripesPlus and was a Yankees fan... Kinda left that part out, although I agree calling him a fanboy is a bit much.
"I see Jesus Montero as a potential once-in-a-generation force on offense."
The term "Fanboy" is an example of troll terminology as I pointed out on my defination of a troll earlier. That point aside, one thing about Yankee fans and commentators, is they are basically objective and realistic (John Sterling aside), So when people comment on things going on with the Yankees, it is not like Staats (Rays TV), Hawk Harrelson, or Gammons, where you get the impression that nothing that the teams they root for can possibly do anything wrong.
There is no better example of this than the Red Sox top to bottom. Everything you heard about guys like Lars Anderson and Casey Kelly was these guys are potential All-Stars, Kevin Youkillis is the best first baseman in baseball (This side of Albert Pujols), every player they draft has Hall Of Fame written over it (You never read about Coyle's contract, after they spent $8m on a Cuban SS), every trade they make is awesome (Prime 9 actually ranked the Veritek & Lowe for Heathcliffe Slocumb the 2nd best trade ever (Ignoring Larry Anderson for Jeff Bagwell)).
I always thought it meant you liked star wars.
I don't really agree with this. I see no reason why Yankee fans are inherently more objective than any other fans.
and as i was hoping, spending vs slot for the first 10 rounds
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=2935
yankees 4th
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
spending last 3 years. 2010, 2009, 2008; total
Yankees $6,652,500 $7,564,500 $5,122,000 $19,339,000
http://ht.ly/2sy0z
i think the "some fans here called him a fanboy" was referring to me saying frankie was being somewhat of a fanboy by picking sanchez on his mid-season top 25. it just means he's acting like a fan on that particular pick, not that he's a fanboy and not a serious scout.
oy vey
Looks like he was right in picking Sanchez in the top 25 as I think he makes BA's top 100 prospects.
Shocking! I am just shocked, shocked, shocked.
Truly shocking.
WARNING! This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
So despite all the fanboys here glowing about how much the Yankees spend, the Yankees are almost at the average when talking about bonus'.
I'm sorry, that sucks.
Wow, we've been outspent by nearly $10mil the last three years by the Redsucks, Nationals and PIRATES.
WARNING! This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Well then, how bout we scout more players well AND sign more players. In an area where our $ can make a difference.
Nobody has ever argued to spend money for the sake of spending. SO I don't know why certain fanboys think that is a reasonable arguement.
WARNING! This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
You even mentioning the Nats at all makes no sense. You know very well who they signed and how much they had to spend to do it. Mentioning the Pirates is only slightly less disingenouos, as they spent $6.5 mil on Mr. Taillon alone this year
You might as well complain that the Yankees do too well in the regular season and it is hurting them in the long run because it is decreasing their draft bonus totals
again, the yankees were 4th in spending vs slot this year. http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/draft/?p=2935
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
Very out of context.
Nats spent over 24 million on 2 guys, both drafted with the #1 pick the last 2 years. And one of them has had arm issues twice in the past 6 weeks.
Bosox had so many early picks the past few years, many more than we had. So it is logical that they would spend more.
And look where the Bucs draft every year. Top 5. Of course they will spend more, unless they do not sign their guys.
BTW - Add in 4 million for our 2008 #1 who decided he did not want to play for the Yankees at that time. Where would we be then?
I think that's what is frustrating to me. That money didn't carry over into the following year's budget.
I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but even drafting late I think Oppenheimer would be able to effectively use $10M instead of 'only' what he's been provided. If the Yankees are able to identify value in the draft, a bigger budget would allow them to find even more value. It's not as if they are spending to a magic number and after that its money wasted.
Killer Bs: Betances, Banuelos, Brackman, Bleich
Take out the last two months and Montero would be hitting .240.
You can't pick and choose what info matters.
WARNING! This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
except montero's last 2 months is more indicative of future performance than his first few months.
oy vey
So you're either saying that there weren't 5-6 more worthy talents out there worth $500k a piece to sign (the Redsox found a few) OR THAT
You just don't want the Yanks to spend any more money. (maybe ticket prices will go down?)
Or you think the Yankees minor league system is so bursting at the seems we just can't add one more player. (nobody else thinks that)
I'll be honest, I don't understand the arguement. You act like there are only a pool of about 25 players in the world the Yanks could go out and draft and/or sign.
Losers justify losing or in this case, inaction.
WARNING! This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
i think the yankees would know better than we do
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
BMX, i respect your opinion a lot around these parts, but man...i can't disagree with you more with our drafting strategies in the US.
OK, since money is all that matters, let's put your "theory" to the test.
Since Iglesias signed for approximately $9M, and Sanchez signed for only $3M, under your "logic," Sanchez is only 1/3 of the player Iglesias is.
In 2009, the Yanks got Stoneburner, Murphy, Warren, Heathcott for good money (I know I am leaving out some other big money guys).
The Red Sox spent money on Renfroe, Fuentes, Wilson, Hazelbaker, Jacobs and Younginer.
The Red Sox spent more on their draft that the Yanks in 2009- who do you think is happier with thier draft? Except for the biggest homer in Boston, I think we can safely assume the Yanks are happier.
In 2008, the Yanks signed Bleich (a waste), Adams, Joseph, Smith, Marshall, DJ Mitchell, Phelps and Lassiter for good money.
The Red Sox signed Kelly, Price, Gibson, Hissey, Westmoreland (his health issues are not his fault), Weiland, Lavarnway and Fife to good money.
Who do you think is happier with that draft? There is an argument that Kelly is the best of the bunch in talent- but he has not progressed- Westmoreland has bigger issues at the moment, but the Yanks picked the better SP from Notre Dame- 10 rounds after the Sox picked theirs. I think the Yanks prefer their haul of Joseph, Phelps, Adams, Mitchell and Marshall to the Sox haul of Kelly, Weiland, Lavarnway, and Fife.
Just because you spend money doesn't mean you got better players. It just means you spent more.
Oppenheimer did a great job spending his budget, yes.
But why is it so hard to understand that if he had more to spend he could do a great job spending that, too?
Instead of spending less than the field and doing better at the margins, why not spend the same and blow the field away in terms of talent acquisition?
Killer Bs: Betances, Banuelos, Brackman, Bleich
Having already said that you are on board with the Culver pick (after further analysis).When Gumbs was selected who did you want there?
How about Segedin?
How about Williams and so on and so on?Picking names out of a hat doesn't mean those guys are going to be great picks anymore than the Sawx picking guys makes them players.
Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.
That is the point- it appears that the Yanks place a different valuation on players than the Red Sox do. However, it appears that the Yanks have better scouting or assessment- because they are "hitting" on more picks than the Sox are.
This also raises a larger point that has become more prevalent in recent years- fans too often buy into the Keith Law/Perfect Game/BA "expertise" and forget that teams do their own scouting. Thus, when their team drafts someone that the fans have not been spoon-fed as a top prospect by the three above, they believe that the names they HAVE been spoon-fed by the above MUST be better than what their team drafted- when based on track record, the opposite is likely true.
In other words, just because you have been spoon-fed information by an "expert" that the best player is X, don't assume that expert knows more than the Yanks scouting department, budget or no.
Perfectly articulated.
Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.
My point is the Yankees are willing to spend the money where they see fit. Perhaps they did not see players drafted in this years draft worth the money they were asking. Or they felt that they knew the drafted players better than others, and were higher on them then other teams. And since these guys were not as highly placed by other teams, the Yankees were able to get them for less than others would like them to spend.
We will never know. But to call out the Yankees for being cheap, as others have done over the past few weeks, may not be a true assessment. And to compare their spending against others in the draft is also not reasonable, when one looks at what upper picks signed for.
BTW - "losers justify losing" does not even remotely apply to the Yankees, defending World Champs and also a team with the best record in Baseball this year, and a Minor League system with 3 teams at the top of their levels.
The way Yankees critics look at the draft/IFA is like it is National College Football Recruiting Day.Which is about the worst way to do so, Here are some reasons why.
1: I am hearing the Boston comparison signing argument made against the Yankees (Like is being used against the Penn State against the Pitt Panthers). What people overlook, is there simply is not enough room in the organization for extra players because of dead wood (Like Igawa), and large scale quality signings in 2009. ps. Guess why the organization wants an extra farm team?. This is similiar to Penn State who was only 15 available scholarships for the 2011 class (This will hamper them until they can clear out dead wood and until Joe Paterno finally retires (Sort of like getting rid of Bobby Bowden at Florida State)).
2: People define everything in terms of Yankees/Red Sox. This is a similiar concept as Ohio State/Michigan where everything from the Game to National Recruiting Day is viewed in the context of the rivalry, instead of looking at the Big 10 Competition as well. Did Boston draft better in 2010? Of course they did (So did Baltimore, Tampa & Toronto, and the rest of the American League did as well (Which is why I gave them a GENEROUS C-)). But if they they decide to spend the money on Darvish, Lee or next year draft instead (Like the did in 2008-1009 (CC, Tex, AJ Heathcott, Stoneburner, Murphy, Mitchell etc). That will erase this year's draft failure rather quickly
2a: People talk about Yankees past failures. But no one talks about the failures of other teams in the division. The Yankees get hammered over Cole and Taylor, but no one complains about Tampa wanting to save money by taking Tim Beckham over Buster Posey. That one mistake could be the equalivalent of the Mets taking Steve Chilcott over Reggie Jackson, an absolute franchise buster, if the Rays fail to win a World Series in the next 10 years. That one mistake may turn out to be far more costly than Taylor or even Cole.
I think the Red Sox are actually happier with that draft... We destroyed them in 2009 though.
I would argue that the Yankee system is pretty good right now, BECAUSE they were spending more money AND they had more $ to put into scouting.
I'm complaining mainly whats happened since signing Tex. They've scaled back. They're on a tight budget.
They had Gary Sanchez wrapped up for 6 months or more before they actually signed him last July.
So really since Tex, they've cut back on IFA and they went discount early in the draft. They did a good job (not great) with higher $ kids thru the first 20 rounds.
NO $ does not translate into talent, but thats why you have scouts. The more talent you have in the system the better CHANCE you have of bearing fruit.
IT's really nothing more than a cattle farm. The better the bull, the healthier the cow, the better you feed and nurture it, the better CHANCE you have at better calves. Doesn't mean a bunch of calves don't break a leg on a trick cattle gate. But the odds are in your favor.
And for those that say we don't have room, good grief, get a reality grip.
WARNING! This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
lol no room on the dsl squad!
oy vey
What's being lost here is that it's not just about money. It's not as if the Yankees can draft whoever they want and they're choosing not to spend the money. At the point where the Yankees draft each round, there's often not talent left worth spending top dollar on. For the Yankees to spend what the Pirates or Natinals do, without spending it on garbage picks just for the sake of spending it, they would have to finish with a record like the Pirates or Natinals each year.
I'd prefer that they continue to draft last each round, personally.
42 is the answer
AJ Burnett=Jaret Wright 2.0
Adam Dunn has less value than Drew Henson - Nome
CF's better than Granderson: Jacoby Ellsbury (.301, 70 steals), Scott Posednik (.304) - Curmudgeon
They drafted Heathcott, Mitchell etc after Tex. I did not like their draft at all (In fact it was closer to the Mets than any other team in the AL East). But it is not just dollars and cents. The fact they want to add an extra minor league team attests to that.
I don't believe this, but even if Sanchez was wrapped up before six months before he signed in July of 2009, Tex was signed prior to Christmas in 2008.
I would hope most of us know by now that Tex has had little impact on the Yankees spending. The fact they went out and spent 6.5 mil on our top 2 draftpicks and Sanchez directly contradicts that thought.
The rest simply ignore it
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
I already disproved much of this rant above.
It is quite telling that you completely avoided addressing facts, rather than letting that stop your rant.
Okay, I concede, the money to sign Sanchez was commited at LEAST 7 mo's and 8 days before he was signed. Not 6 mo's as previously stated.
I don't know why else the Yanks had him hide out at their dominican campus.
WARNING! This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
If you don't see that Tex affected our overall budget, there's nothing I can say that will change it. That's too simple a concept.
WARNING! This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
You debate like my wife. Throw crap all over the place and declare victory. Are you a woman or a guy?
Nothing personal, just curious. It would just make a lot more sense.
WARNING! This post may be offensive to little girly men or women with soft feelings.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
i dont see it because the yankees went out and gave gary sanchez one of thier largest bonus' ever(4th biggest ever, second biggest to an amateur), and spent 6.5 million on 3 players. this year was universally considered a poor year for both the draft and IFA
apparently its too simple of a concept for you, if tex had lead to budget constraints, why did they go out and spend that much the summer after they signed him and only now be feeling the crunch? the yankees actions the summer after signing tex directly contradict your theory
"Montero hasn't delivered completely on his raw power, but he's close to projecting as an 80 hitter with 80 power on the 20-80 scouting scale"-BA
What? No it wouldn't. Throwing crap all over the place and declaring victory is not something only women do that men don't.
Projecting much?
YOU were the one claiming that the Yanks were cheap and that this had hurt them in the draft.
I SPECIFICALLY walked you through the Yanks prior two drafts AND the Red Sox two prior drafts (the last one can't be discussed because most of the key players just haven't played much yet).
After reviewing the two drafts, it was VERY clear that the Yanks had drafted better than the Red Sox had (though there is an argument that Kelly might be the best prospect, but even that is open for debate after this past season), even though the Yanks spent much less.
YOU are the one "throwing crap around" because you just want to talk big, yet you have ZERO facts to back you up. In fact, as demonstrated in the draft discussion, your base claim fails under scrutiny of FACTS. Yet you STILL don't get it.
Pat White was released by the dolphins. I'd assume he would look for a job in the NFL before the season starts, but we currently have the rights to sign him, right?
"If we have to, we'll hoard everybody. That's what the Yankees used to do."
“Most lineups will hate facing our pitching and most pitching will hate facing our lineup,”
The deadline for signing drafted free agents has come and gone for Pat White when he was drafted by the Yanks. I'm afraid that as far as the Yankees are concerned he turned into a pumpkin long ago (at the strike of midnight on the signing deadline).
Royal Flush: Hughes, Sabathia, Betances, Brackman, Banuelos.
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