Red Sox Thread Version 5.0

[THEBOSS84]

They both have earned a lot of rope. They'll be around for a while

Francona is one of the guys I can't get myself to dislike in that org.

Lester is probably the other.

[snarkerella]

Francona is one of the guys I can't get myself to dislike in that org.

Lester is probably the other.

Absolutely. Wakefield, too.

Didn't realize Papelbon's FIP was 5.25 until... right now. Eesh.

[yankeebot]

Francona is one of the guys I can't get myself to dislike in that org.

Lester is probably the other.

I used to feel that way but I've soured on Francona over the past couple years. There have been a few things but that last Beckett game where he left him in was the final nail. Beckett pitched recklessly and irresponsibly and Francona let it happen.

[THEBOSS84]

I used to feel that way but I've soured on Francona over the past couple years. There have been a few things but that last Beckett game where he left him in was the final nail. Beckett pitched recklessly and irresponsibly and Francona let it happen.

I can't argue with that. It was very, very odd.

[Nathan]

The reason it gets ridiculed is you can do that with any game.

It's meaningless.

Why is it meaningless to identify the goat(s) of the game? Fans of every team do that.

I'm not saying the Red Sox should have won. Obviously not. But they likely would have, were it not for the double-goat Dice-K/Paps combo.

[ieddyi]

Why is it meaningless to identify the goat(s) of the game? Fans of every team do that.

I'm not saying the Red Sox should have won. Obviously not. But they likely would have, were it not for the double-goat Dice-K/Paps combo.

When they score more runs than the other team. their WPA is off the charts

[Mr Coffee]

Why is it meaningless to identify the goat(s) of the game? Fans of every team do that.

I'm not saying the Red Sox should have won. Obviously not. But they likely would have, were it not for the double-goat Dice-K/Paps combo.

Do you think anyone here wasn't already aware that Matsuzaka and Papelbon had bad games?

A more constructive post would have identified the issues with both Matsuzaka and Papelbon, maybe suggesting reasons for their poor performances--not merely saying "If it wasn't for them, the Sox would have won."

[Nathan]

Do you think anyone here wasn't already aware that Matsuzaka and Papelbon had bad games?

A more constructive post would have identified the issues with both Matsuzaka and Papelbon, maybe suggesting reasons for their poor performances--not merely saying "If it wasn't for them, the Sox would have won."

Now I have to provide a detailed analysis of the mechanics of any Boston pitcher who struggles in order to be considered a worthy contributor here? You guys are going on about pants-crapping and debating my troll status and I have to be Bill James to fit in. Rich.

[President Kennedy]

If Matsuzaka and Papelbon had pitched well, the Red Sox most likely would have won. In fact, if Matsuzaka had pitched well, Papelbon probably wouldn't have pitched at all and Ramon Ramirez or whomever would have been in there in the 9th.

This is obviously correct, but because Nathan posted it, it becomes fodder for derision and s.

Now that is obvious, and correct.

[wwjdd]

I am so tired of Papelbon's act. Carry on.

[CoyoteYankee]

I am so tired of Papelbon's act. Carry on.

What do you mean by his act?

[effdamets]

Now I have to provide a detailed analysis of the mechanics of any Boston pitcher who struggles in order to be considered a worthy contributor here? You guys are going on about pants-crapping and debating my troll status and I have to be Bill James to fit in. Rich.

You're arguements/statements are similar to those of a 5th grader.

If it weren't for Abraham Lincoln, we'd still have slavery in this country... Right?

I mean after all - Superman can take Batman.....

[Mr Coffee]

Now I have to provide a detailed analysis of the mechanics of any Boston pitcher who struggles in order to be considered a worthy contributor here? You guys are going on about pants-crapping and debating my troll status and I have to be Bill James to fit in. Rich.

You don't have to do anything, Nathan.

You asked why you were getting ridiculed.

I answered, and gave a suggestion.

Clearly whatever you're doing is working for you, so do what you want.

[yankeebot]

You don't have to do anything, Nathan.

You asked why you were getting ridiculed.

I answered, and gave a suggestion.

Clearly whatever you're doing is working for you, so do what you want.

Well, if he doesn't want to discuss his team's actual performance, maybe he'll share his views on the fallacy of the predetermined outcome.

[CoyoteYankee]

You don't have to do anything, Nathan.

You asked why you were getting ridiculed.

I answered, and gave a suggestion.

Clearly whatever you're doing is working for you, so do what you want.

Nathan is like the pitcher who is totally wild then cries when he doesn't get the call on the borderline strike.

Either that or he's Rodney Dangerfield.

I can't decide which.

[THEBOSS84]

BTW, I totally had no idea that Darnell Mcdonald is 30 years old.

[b-ball-lunachick]

Now why would I be a fan of the team in Boston with the most championships? That's just crazy talk!
I follow them in the papers and will watch in the post season, but I never could get into basketball the way I do baseball and to a lesser extent, hockey.

I hear you...I'm such a peripheral basketball fan..when Van Gundy left, I stopped even following the Knicks and when Kidd left NJ,that went away too - I have no idea what's going on in that sport.

I got nothing, either. The Red Sox pitching staff has just been atrocious. It's hard to believe it's been this bad in every aspect. There have been other disappointments, but where the Red Sox are right now is squarely on the pitchers.

At what point is Farrell on the hot seat?

[ieddyi]

Now I have to provide a detailed analysis of the mechanics of any Boston pitcher who struggles in order to be considered a worthy contributor here? You guys are going on about pants-crapping and debating my troll status and I have to be Bill James to fit in. Rich.

The only thing you could do to add value to the thread would be to leave

[Nathan]

Oh, I know why you guys jump all over me.

Doesn't have much to do with logical fallacies or lack of contribution though, that's for sure.



I don't know if you can blame Farrell or not. He seemed to do a good job for years before this, so what changed? Seems to me like it's a bunch of pitchers who are just happening to slump at the same time. Pretty much everyone is underperforming their career numbers at the same time, which is bizarre. It shouldn't continue.

[b-ball-lunachick]

The reason it gets ridiculed is you can do that with any game.

It's meaningless.

times like this I wonder if someone is playing dumb.

I'm surprised there was no mention if a few of those catches were made in the outfield, the game may have been a different one...

[MFLE]

BTW, I totally had no idea that Darnell Mcdonald is 30 years old.

Yeah, he's the 'Old McDonald' from the song.

[Miss Yvonne]

Tell us why, Nathan. Don't keep us all in suspense.

[Eschie]

Nathan is like the pitcher who is totally wild then cries when he doesn't get the call on the borderline strike.

Nathan never comes close, even by accident.

[wwjdd]

What do you mean by his act?

His arrogance, his rigidity and his ineffectiveness. Am I missing anything?

[Rice14]

BTW, I totally had no idea that Darnell Mcdonald is 30 years old.

Yep, he was actually recruited to replace Ricky Williams at the University of Texas but opted for baseball.

[LongLiveBernie51!]

I'm not saying the Red Sox should have won. Obviously not. But they likely would have, were it not for the double-goat Dice-K/Paps combo.

Ohhh man....that pesky concept known as "reality" always gets in the way

[teknetic]

I didn't realize Papelbon threw 2 1/3 innings in Detroit on Saturday.

[BronxYanks45]

I didn't realize Papelbon threw 2 1/3 innings in Detroit on Saturday.

perfect way to use your closer in the regular season

[CoyoteYankee]

His arrogance, his rigidity and his ineffectiveness. Am I missing anything?

Granted, I don't watch many Red Sox games, but hadn't he been pretty effective this year until last night?

As for his arrogance and rigidity....I don't need to watch the games to feel you on that one.

[Miss Yvonne]

Yep, he was actually recruited to replace Ricky Williams at the University of Texas but opted for baseball.

Wow...I had no idea. Maybe Parcells could give him a tryout?

[wwjdd]

Granted, I don't watch many Red Sox games, but hadn't he been pretty effective this year until last night?

As for his arrogance and rigidity....I don't need to watch the games to feel you on that one.

You may be right. They've been so annoyingly pathetic this year that you probably have watched more games that I have.

[NYYDragoon]

I'm not saying the Red Sox should have won. Obviously not. But they likely would have, were it not for the double-goat Dice-K/Paps combo.

So they would have won if they didn't lose?

[jeterdaman]

So they would have won if they didn't lose?

Not necessarily, but they definitely wouldn't have lost if they had actually won.

[delv]

Not necessarily, but they definitely wouldn't have lost if they had actually won.

is that you Frege?

[Rice14]

Wow...I had no idea. Maybe Parcells could give him a tryout?

Could happen, you know Parcells has a soft spot for old running backs. I wonder if McDonald regrets choosing baseball.

[False1]

Again, another example of me saying something obviously true and in your haste to argue with every point I make you end up disputing an obviously correct point.

If Matsuzaka and Papelbon had pitched well, the Red Sox most likely would have won. In fact, if Matsuzaka had pitched well, Papelbon probably wouldn't have pitched at all and Ramon Ramirez or whomever would have been in there in the 9th.

This is obviously correct, but because Nathan posted it, it becomes fodder for derision and s.

If Ellsbury hadn't gotten injured and had 11 RBI's and 17 stolen bases in that game, Papelbon wouldn't have pitched. I like being insightful - it's fun!

[False1]

Now I have to provide a detailed analysis of the mechanics of any Boston pitcher who struggles in order to be considered a worthy contributor here? You guys are going on about pants-crapping and debating my troll status and I have to be Bill James to fit in. Rich.

That, or it would be easier to just stop posting dumb comments.

How do you know they would have won? If Beckett got that start or Lackey or Lester for that matter, how do you know they wouldn't have "prevented" 15 runs?

It's a pointless and rather tortured line of thinking, and you're defense of it is even worse.

[Eschie]

Nathan thought trading Nomar lead to a World Series*, is anyone really surprised by his recent bit of nonsense?

[ShaneTravis]

per rotoworld---Lowell has asked for his release. Or is "thinking" of asking.

Vague at best.

[Rice14]

per rotoworld---Lowell has asked for his release. Or is "thinking" of asking.

Vague at best.

I wonder if he was hoping to wait Ortiz out, but now that Ortiz has come around a little bit, he doesn't forsee getting regular at bats any time soon.

[ShaneTravis]

I wonder if he was hoping to wait Ortiz out, but now that Ortiz has come around a little bit, he doesn't forsee getting regular at bats any time soon.

Exactly. He has something like 60 plate appearances. He can still hit, needs to play.

[teknetic]

per rotoworld---Lowell has asked for his release. Or is "thinking" of asking.

Vague at best.

So he may or not be asking to be released.

[snarkerella]

So he may or not be asking to be released.

It could go either way.

[Mr Coffee]

So he may or not be asking to be released.

It could go either way.

EDIT: sonofa..

[YankeePride1967]

If Lowell does ask and is granted it, I am going to bet there is a serious reduction, if not elimination of the money owed to him. I bet they would come to some kind of deal at a reduced amount.

[snarkerella]

It could go either way.

EDIT: sonofa..

GMTA

[Mr Coffee]

per rotoworld---Lowell has asked for his release. Or is "thinking" of asking.

Vague at best.

Is he expressing a desire to strangle anyone this time?

[Dynasties R Forever]

His arrogance, his rigidity and his ineffectiveness. Am I missing anything?

Fastballs, lots of them. Why doesn't he throw anything else?

An obvious point but he isn't going to get away with that against better hitting teams.

I mean hell even with a pitch that changes movement on each throw like a Wakefield knuckleball he'll still mix in a few not so fastballs. They may be sucky as fastballs in isolation but mixing them in helps his bread and butter.

[CoyoteYankee]

per rotoworld---Lowell has asked for his release. Or is "thinking" of asking.

Vague at best.

Clubhouse cancer.

[Yankee Tripper]

If Lowell does ask and is granted it, I am going to bet there is a serious reduction, if not elimination of the money owed to him. I bet they would come to some kind of deal at a reduced amount.

I don't believe the players union allows that.