The Blue Jays Thread

[bobby jr]

A fan doesn't have the right to win a championship or even make the playoff. They DO have the right to demand the ABILITY to compete with the 'big boys'. Tampa, Minnesota and Oakland are 3 examples of franchises that have shown the ability to compete for more than 1 year at a time since the late 90's.

Kansas City, Pittsburgh and yes, the Orioles, have been mismanaged beyond all belief for the last decade that no amount of $$ would have fixed.

A fan has the right to ask more than his team has an outside chance to catch lightning in a bottle and beat the big market teams once in a blue moon.

The fan has the right to ask that his team has exactly the the same chance as the "big boys". Equality of opportunity.

Why should the Red Sox and especially the Yankees have a built in, perpetual advantage, based upon market size and revenue? No such advantage exists for any NFL team.
No such advantage existed in MLB during the years 1965-74, and those were better years.

No MLB team should have any advantage based upon market size and payroll.
It is absurd and totally unacceptable that Toronto and Baltimore are always behind the 8 ball merely because their market size and payroll can't match the Yankees or Red Sox.

[hardrain]

Bobby, even you must get tired of posting the same exact post over and over, year after year.

[ruthianblast]

A fan has the right to ask more than his team has an outside chance to catch lightning in a bottle and beat the big market teams once in a blue moon.

The fan has the right to ask that his team has exactly the the same chance as the "big boys". Equality of opportunity.

Why should the Red Sox and especially the Yankees have a built in, perpetual advantage, based upon market size and revenue? No such advantage exists for any NFL team.
No such advantage existed in MLB during the years 1965-74, and those were better years.

No MLB team should have any advantage based upon market size and payroll.
It is absurd and totally unacceptable that Toronto and Baltimore are always behind the 8 ball merely because their market size and payroll can't match the Yankees or Red Sox.

Please do not lump Toronto in the with the likes of the Orioles; Toronto is a city of 2.5 million with a huge base that extends out into Hamilton and Barrie. That's a huge area of resources to command. The Jays are by no stretch of the imagination a small market team. They have no excuse to be spending less than $110 to $150 million a year in order to compete.

I love my home city; and when they were willing to go out and spend like in the '88-'94 years on true good to great players and did a good job of mixing in the home grown talent they were very profitable and successful.

Stick with you're Orioles & Tampa "small markets" and leave my city alone.

[ny]

Why should the Red Sox and especially the Yankees have a built in, perpetual advantage, based upon market size and revenue?

In 1999 Orioles had 2nd highest attendance in baseball along with 2nd highest revenue and 3rd fastest growing revenue in AL. The simple reason the red sox jumped ahead of your team was they have a better ownership group. The O's had plenty of opportunities to remain competitive yet due to mismangement they failed to resign several of their own key free agents, made terrible free agent signings and had terrible drafts which have burried them for the past decade. Its not the lack of a salary cap that has turned your team into the games biggest laughingstock but the fact that you have a clueless moron for an owner.

No such advantage existed in MLB during the years 1965-74, and those were better years.

What a coincidence that the "better" years you're referring to was during a period when the yankees were owned by CBS arguably one of the worst owners in sports history. The funny thing is that as bad as the Yankees were under CBS 636-649 (.495%) they're still no where near as bad as they have been since that idiot purchased your pathetic franchise back in 1993. 1285-1481 (.464%)

[BroadwayBomber55]

In 1999 Orioles had 2nd highest attendance in baseball along with 2nd highest revenue and 3rd fastest growing revenue in AL. The simple reason the red sox jumped ahead of your team was they have a better ownership group. The O's had plenty of opportunities to remain competitive yet due to mismangement they failed to resign several of their own key free agents, made terrible free agent signings and had terrible drafts which have burried them for the past decade. Its not the lack of a salary cap that has turned your team into the games biggest laughingstock but the fact that you have a clueless moron for an owner.




What a coincidence that the "better" years you're referring to was during a period when the yankees were owned by CBS arguably one of the worst owners in sports history. The funny thing is that as bad as the Yankees were under CBS 636-649 (.495%) they're still no where near as bad as they have been since that idiot purchased your pathetic franchise back in 1993. 1285-1481 (.464%)

Yep, as you said ny, the Orioles wanted too long to develop their pitchers and position players from their own farm system, gambled on FA talent like Albert Belle and Miguel Tejada and didn't pan out and failed to keep their own developed players (i.e. Mike Mussina).

Teams who have "small" markets, better ownership (i.e. owners being aggressive) and front office like the Oakland Athletics and Minnesota Twins have taken advantage of the revenue sharing and luxury tax by putting their money back into the team.

The Orioles and Peter Angelos? They take the money from the revenue sharing and put it in their back pockets.

[bobby jr]

What a coincidence that the "better" years you're referring to was during a period when the yankees were owned by CBS arguably one of the worst owners in sports history. The funny thing is that as bad as the Yankees were under CBS 636-649 (.495%) they're still no where near as bad as they have been since that idiot purchased your pathetic franchise back in 1993. 1285-1481 (.464%)

The reason those years were better was because no team was guaranteed a winning record based upon market size and payroll. The small market teams had just as much of a chance of winning as the big markets like NY. The Orioles could and did dominate the Yankees with an equal playing field.

So the Yankees had bad ownership for awhile and did not win under CBS. That wasn't the end of the world. In a normal professional sports league, all teams go through such cycles. Teams go through up and down periods.

But under the present system, the Yankees it is quite likely the Yankees will have a winning record for the next 100 consecutive years based upon market size and payroll. This would be impossible to happen in the NFL with any team, which I suspect is part of the reason why the NFL is thriving today while MLB attendance and especially WS ratings are not what they used to be.

[BroadwayBomber55]

The reason those years were better was because no team was guaranteed a winning record based upon market size and payroll. The small market teams had just as much of a chance of winning as the big markets like NY. The Orioles could and did dominate the Yankees with an equal playing field.

So the Yankees had bad ownership for awhile and did not win under CBS. That wasn't the end of the world. In a normal professional sports league, all teams go through such cycles. Teams go through up and down periods.

But under the present system, the Yankees it is quite likely the Yankees will have a winning record for the next 100 consecutive years based upon market size and payroll. This would be impossible to happen in the NFL with any team, which I suspect is part of the reason why the NFL is thriving today while MLB attendance and especially WS ratings are not what they used to be.

And yet, games are still decided, not by payroll or market size, but by wins or losses....ON THE FIELD!

[armstrong]

The Jays are pretty good for a fourth-place team. They're certainly shaping up to be quite formidable spoilers.

[BronxYanks45]

The Jays are pretty good for a fourth-place team. They're certainly shaping up to be quite formidable spoilers.

yea, the Jays can really screw over a team's post season dreams. they've been playing great as of late

[Don_Veto]

yea, the Jays can really screw over a team's post season dreams. they've been playing great as of late

Unless it's the Red Sox. They seem to enjoy bending over for them.

[aeromac76]

The Jays are pretty good for a fourth-place team. They're certainly shaping up to be quite formidable spoilers.

Yeah they are spoiling it for the Yankees.
The play us like every pitch, swing or fielding chance is going to decide whether their children live or die, and then play the Sox with the fervor of tossing a frisbee around a sandy beach on a hot day while drunk as humanly possible off of Coronas with lime..

[1970cs]

Yeah they are spoiling it for the Yankees.
The play us like every pitch, swing or fielding chance is going to decide whether their children live or die, and then play the Sox with the fervor of tossing a frisbee around a sandy beach on a hot day while drunk as humanly possible off of Coronas with lime..

Have to have beach chairs, lots and lots of beach chairs

[snarkerella]

When it comes to the Red Sox, Orioles : 2009 :: Blue Jays : 2010

[1970cs]

When it comes to the Red Sox, Orioles : 2009 :: Blue Jays : 2010

considering they were swept by the pre-Buck O's

[YankeeFanSinceBucky]

With this series vs the Sox the Jays are playing themselves right out of the Wikd Card. Buck Martinez is a horrid PBP announcer. Sominex plus

[snarkerella]

They're still like 3-9 against Boston this year but for today, I rescind my criticism of you, Jays.

[4bronxbombers]

lol Papelbon

[YankeeFanSinceBucky]

GREAT FINISH! Poor Lackey

[False1]

I cannot believe the M's gave up on Morrow and dealt him to the Jays for League. Joherymn Chavez is tearing it up for the M's in high A ball, but still... Morrow has such crazy stuff. I remember his first start against the Yankees and how impressed I was. Not quite sure how he hasn't produced better overall results to date, but I think the flashes of dominance he's been showing of late become more frequent as he develops. Sick.

[SLURPEE]

I cannot believe the M's gave up on Morrow and dealt him to the Jays for League. Joherymn Chavez is tearing it up for the M's in high A ball, but still... Morrow has such crazy stuff. I remember his first start against the Yankees and how impressed I was. Not quite sure how he hasn't produced better overall results to date, but I think the flashes of dominance he's been showing of late become more frequent as he develops. Sick.

Really? This the same gm who apparently rather have Smoak instead of Montero.

[ojo]

cough**PED**cough

[YankeePride1967]

cough**PED**cough

Previous high of 16 HR in a season, now has 40 with 5 weeks to play. What would make you think that?

[ojo]

Hey I know I'm waaaaay out on a limb here...

[False1]

I'm still waiting for someone to give me (perferably pre-steroid era) an example of someone with around 2000 ABs that in or around their age 29 season more than DOUBLED their isop. Bautista was ~.160 isop coming into this season, and so far this year his isop is .342.

[armstrong]

Given the scrutiny PED users undergo these days, someone like Bautista would be crazy to risk his whole career on getting a few homers.

He's a good hitter, it's as simple as that.

[effdamets]

Given the scrutiny PED users undergo these days, someone like Bautista would be crazy to risk his whole career on getting a few homers.

He's a good hitter, it's as simple as that.

You mean his whole mediocre career?

[thaa]

The Jays don't make much money, if any. They lost money a few years ago.

Can't imagine they're making money this year when they can barely draw 20,000.

Toronto is a strange city. When they were winning WS's they were actually outspending the Yankees and Red Sox. The stadium was always jammed in those days. (How they love a wieeener.)

Because when they began losing, they stayed away, in droves. If you ask them why they stay away, they cite the strike, as if it were a personal act of betrayal.

They're real heart is on ice. The Leafs haven't won the Cup since, I think, (in American terms) LBJ was President, and yet a Leaf's ticket is the hardest to get in Toronto.

And don't y'all believe any of that Toronto-as-small-market stuff. It's for the birds. It's big booming metropolitan area. Of course they can compete with the big boys. They may not be able to match the Yankees dollar for dollar, but this is not necessary in order to field a winning team. You have to spend a lot, perhaps, but you don't have to spend Yankee dollars.

One of my favorite sights in Toronto is that of the fans leaving in droves in the 7th inning with the Jays behind by, say, 3 runs. The 9th inning comes early in Toronto.

A test of whether their ownership will have what it takes is whether they manage to keep all those good young arms.

By the way, with the dome closed, the Rogers Center is acoustical hell, with its garish teenage-boy-music played at top volume: and not a teenage boy to be seen for sections around.

[GoJays]

They're real heart is on ice. The Leafs haven't won the Cup since, I think, (in American terms) LBJ was President, and yet a Leaf's ticket is the hardest to get in Toronto.

What turned Jays fans off was the strike to start with, and then Interbrew's disinterested ownership in the late 90s, early 2000s.

Leafs tickets aren't all that hard to come by these days. You can walk up to the box office and get tickets before the game if you happen to have an extra mortgage payment laying around.

Toronto FC tickets are far more difficult to get your hands on. For now.

Toronto is a Leafs town, though. The Marlies play down the road at Ricoh Coliseum in front of friends and family only.

[armstrong]

You mean his whole mediocre career?

Fine. Then explain to me which PED he is on, and how do you know this? (other than your cynical nature?)

[hellonewman]

Can someone tell me why Cito Gaston left in a lefthander to pitch to Evan Longoria, who's got a .999 OPS against lefties, with 2 on and 1 out in the 8th?

Oh, I get it. Don't want a righty pitching to Pena, who's up next. After all, he mashes righties to an .811 clip.

[effdamets]

Fine. Then explain to me which PED he is on, and how do you know this? (other than your cynical nature?)

You're funny.

I'm not the guy's druggist, so which PED he might be using is unknown at this point....
The sentiment in this thread (and others) is that he is being suspected (by the fans) of using some kind of PED. No matter which one. And just remember, there are just as many masking agents as there are PEDs.

And here's the facts of suspicion:
This guy had exactly 59 home runs in his CAREER before this season. Over 6 previous major league seasons, he hadn't proved for a single minute that he was a homerun/power hitter.
His highest posted OPS+ in the previous six seasons was 101. That's a very small amount above average - for one season.... The rest of the seasons he showed that he was a BELOW AVERAGE hitter.
Now all of a sudden, at the age of 29.... TWENTY NINE.... this guy is a power hitter to the affect of a 172 OPS+ .... All of a sudden this guy figured it out? He was a suck job for 6 years and then, *BOOM*..... God reached down and turned his ability into the likes of Babe Ruth?
All this improvement...right in time with the player's free agent season around the corner (2011)...

Nothing suspicious here.

[armstrong]

Armstrong wrote: (other than your cynical nature?)

Effdamets wrote: And here's the facts of suspicion:

So what are you disagreeing with?


Fact you failed to include: He hasn't tested positive.