Felix, too, with 189 IP already.Originally Posted by flymick24
Felix, too, with 189 IP already.
Josh Johnson??
Can't see Clay getting much consideration due to having significantly less innings pitched than other deserving pitchers.
I think he'll finish in the top 4 or so if he maintains his low ERA and gets another 5-6 wins. Look at Dice-K in '08.
Out of curiousity, why don't you think Lester is a factor?
ERA: Lee 2.77, Lester 2.80, Price 2.85
Adjusted ERA: Lester 156, Lee 150, Price 147
Ks: Lester 165, Lee 147, Price 141
IP: Lee 169, Lester, 161, Price 151
Whip: Lee .947, Lester 1.13, Price 1.250
Wins: Price 15, Lester 13, Lee 10
It seems to me that Lester is right there, in particular as compared to Price. The only significant category Price leads Lester in is wins, by two,
Hernandez's number, bar his W-L record are actually amazing. Such a shame he plays for the mariners
AL
CC: 17-5, 187.2 IP, 3.02 ERA, 151 SO, 1.220 WHIP
Buchholz: 15-5, 139.1 IP, 2.26 ERA, 96 SO, 1.199 WHIP
Lester: 13-8, 163 IP, 3.26 ERA, 166 SO, 1.184 WHIP
Price:15-5, 157.2 IP, 2.97 ERA, 146 SO, 1.256 WHIP
Cahill: 13-5, 148.2, 2.54 ERA, 86 SO, 0.989 WHIP
NL
Halladay: 16-8, 200 IP, 2.16 ERA, 180 SO, 1.030 WHIP
Wainwright: 17-7, 183.1 IP, 2.06 ERA, 165 SO, 0.976 WHIP
Jimenez: 17-4, 169.1 IP, 2.66 ERA, 156 SO, 1.104 WHIP
Hudson: 14-5, 171.2 IP, 2.15 ERA, 91 SO, 1.089 WHIP
Last edited by kan_t; 08-23-10 at 09:15 PM.
1. You need to add Lee to the AL list.
2. CC has Price beat.
With the slide he's been on since going to Texas, Lee has pretty much no chance at this point, despite the fantastic peripherals. Only at 10 wins on the year and writers will notice the 4+ ERA (so far) since joining the Rangers.
Hard to argue anything other than this being CC's to lose at this point. If Buchholz can keep his ERA lead padded and win 5 of his final 7, he has a great shot at runner up.
10-7, 3.09 ERA
No matter how good his K/BB or WHIP is, Lee has no chance at this point.
You guys are definitely right. I didn't realize his ERA surged to 3.09, but I did know he got his ass handed to him the last 2-3 times out.
This is literally CC's to lose. Price is going to be headed into uncharted IP territory, so I figure he may slow down even more.
CC is going to have an overwhelming lead on IP over Buchholz by the time the season is over.
buchholz's era # is huge.
oy vey
He has no K's and very few innings.
If his ERA is half a run lower than CC and he's with in 3 wins of the big lefty when the season is over, his Ks & innings probably won't matter.
But I really don't care, if CC is pitching deep into October, CLay can accepthis award on the golf course for all I care.
Though it would be really sweet if the Yanks bitch slap him twice and balloon his ERA out of contention.
Baseball is life;
the rest is just details.
typo on butt-holez. era should be 2.26 not 2.49
Ummmm, no Felix? His W/L record is his only blemish, but he has to be the prohibitive favorite right now, followed by CC. Hernandez's numbers:
9-10, 197.0 IP, 2.51 ERA, 183 SO, 1.127 WHIP
He's been better than everyone, he just plays on a sh*tty team.
The Cy Young is not won by losing pitchers on last place teams regardless of their other stats.
I can't complain but sometimes I still do. - Joe Walsh
While he wasn't a losing pitcher, Zach Greinke still says hello. Times are changing, thankfully for the better.
Felix would have to win every one of his remaining starts to have a chance at the award. Lincecum's 15 wins is the lowest total ever - no way they'll give it to a guy with 30% fewer than that. There's just no way to call Felix anywhere near a favorite right now.
I don't agree. I think he needs to finish with a winning record, but to say he needs to win out is a bit much. Let's say he he makes 7 more starts - if he goes 4-1 in those starts and finishes 13-11 while pitching like he has all year, he'll deserve the award unless another contender with a hefty innings total blows the doors off the rest of the season. How can you call the guy who has been the best pitcher in the AL this year, "not anywhere near being the favorite"?
Felix isn't benefiting from a season long hype campaign like Grienke did and Grienke didn't have to beat a 20 game winner on a division winning team. Felix has virtually no chance, at least at the moment.
Thanks for pointing that out. Fixed.
In 2009 Greinke was 1st in ERA, WHIP; 2nd in SO, K/BB, IP; 7th in Wins; 9th in W%.
Right now King Felix is 1st in IP; 2nd in ERA, SO; 4th in WHIP; 9th in SO/BB; 31st in Wins; 41st in W%.
King Felix is not anywhere near being the favorite.
Felix has been the best pitcher in the AL this year but he won't win it.
It almost reminds me of this odd season:
There once was a pitcher who pitched over 200 innings and:
Was 1st in ERA, 1st in SO, 1st in K/BB, 3rd in WHIP...and didn't receive a single first place Cy Young vote because he lost twice as many games as he won.
Who was that pitcher?
Nolan Ryan, 1987.
Wow, that was quick. Correct, of course.
CC and Clay B. have meant the most to their playoff-competitive teams in the AL.
I heard this today...Did Coltrane actually exist? This is like being blind for 50 years, regaining sight, and then peering directly at the sun.
I just looked at that year for Ryan in detail. Wow....it has to be the most hard luck year ever....worse than Turk Farrell. Ryan lost three 1-0 games where he gave up a total of 7 hits in 23 innings.
I heard this today...Did Coltrane actually exist? This is like being blind for 50 years, regaining sight, and then peering directly at the sun.
I'm still trying to figure out how Buchholz has that Pedro-esque ERA with his peripherals pitching in Fenway and the AL East. Insane.
"We understand that John Henry must be embarrassed, frustrated and disappointed by his failure in this transaction. Unlike the Yankees, he chose not to go the extra distance for his fans in Boston."
It would kind of suck if we only gave the Cy Young to contending teams. Bad enough they do it with the MVP.
Now listen to me....Jo-LENE. I've got an army to raise and I must get to Nicaragua. I require a window seat and an in-flight Happy Meal AND NO PICKLES. OH, GOD HELP YOU IF I FIND PICKLES.
His rather miniscule 5.5% HR/FB is the main reason. He's been lucky on balls in play pretty much across the board.
Including a ton of GDPs for a guy with just a pretty good GB% and only 140 IP.
I always figured Price was going deep into games, his IP total seems kinda low.
Tiger Woods:Sent: 01:28 PM 09/08/2009:
Have you ever had a golden shower done to you
AL
CC: 18-5, 194.2 IP, 3.14 ERA, 160 SO, 1.228 WHIP, .783 W%
Buchholz: 15-5, 146.2 IP, 2.21 ERA, 101 SO, 1.180 WHIP, .750 W%
Lester: 14-8, 170 IP, 3.12 ERA, 176 SO, 1.176 WHIP, .636 W%
Price:15-6, 164.2 IP, 3.01 ERA, 154 SO, 1.263 WHIP, .714 W%
Cahill: 14-5, 155.2, 2.43 ERA, 88 SO, 1.002 WHIP, .737 W%
NL
Halladay: 16-9, 207 IP, 2.22 ERA, 186 SO, 1.024 WHIP,.640 W%
Wainwright: 17-8, 190.1 IP, 2.18 ERA, 171 SO, 0.998 WHIP, .680 W%
Jimenez: 17-5, 176.1 IP, 2.71 ERA, 160 SO, 1.129 WHIP, .773 W%
Hudson: 15-5, 184.2 IP, 2.24 ERA, 109 SO, 1.094 WHIP, .750 W%
Didn't that Jimenez has had a few bad months 6.04 ERA in July and a 4.41 in June.
The loser now will be later to win...
yea he fell flat, but he does also have a no hitter
The real reason why the Yankees keep winning is cause the other team can't stop staring at the damn pinstripes
AL
CC: 19-5, 202.2 IP, 3.02 ERA, 165 SO, 1.199 WHIP, .792 W%
Buchholz: 15-5, 146.2 IP, 2.21 ERA, 101 SO, 1.180 WHIP, .750 W%
Lester: 15-8, 176 IP, 3.27 ERA, 186 SO, 1.193 WHIP, .652 W%
Price:16-6, 172.2 IP, 2.92 ERA, 161 SO, 1.239 WHIP, .727 W%
Hernandez: 10-10, 211.1 IP, 2.38 ERA, 200 SO, 1.103 WHIP, .500 W%
NL
Halladay: 16-10, 214 IP, 2.27 ERA, 190 SO, 1.042 WHIP,.615 W%
Wainwright: 17-9, 195.1 IP, 2.30 ERA, 178 SO, 1.019 WHIP, .654 W%
Jimenez: 17-6, 184.1 IP, 2.69 ERA, 170 SO, 1.118 WHIP, .739 W%
Hudson: 15-6, 191.2 IP, 2.30 ERA, 113 SO, 1.101 WHIP, .714 W%
2009 Greinke vs 2010 King Felix
Win: #7 vs #29
IP: #5 vs #1
ERA: #1 vs #2
WHIP: #1 vs #4
W%: #9 vs #39
I doubt King Felix can win like last year Greinke.
I think the only way Felix has a shot if he goes like 4 or 5-0 in September and gets his ERA closer to 2....and both Price and CC pitch terribly.
While the first part could happen, I dont expect the second to happen. If CC finishes something like 22-5 or 23-5 w/an ERA around 3....and the Yanks take the division....there is no way he doesnt win. Or if Price gets to 19-20+ wins and has the ERA in the high 2's....and the Rays win the division....there is no way he doesnt win.
Lets play hypothetical here. Lets assume each of these pitchers has five more starts. I'll throw out possible final season lines and let everyone pick who they think should win:
CC: 23-6, 2.95 ERA, 1.17 WHIP. 238 IP, 190 K
Price: 20-7, 2.90 ERA, 1.22 WHIP. 206 IP, 190 K
Buchholz: 17-6, 2.25 ERA, 1.18 WHIP. 178 IP, 120 K
Felix: 13-10, 2.25 ERA, 1.07 WHIP. 248 IP, 240 K
Jesus Montero since June 1 (286 at-bats):
.325/.386/.605/.991
July 1 (182 at-bats):
.348/.417/.658/1.075
CY: CC
2: Price - Difference in ERA is not enough to overcome fewer IP and wins and higher WHIP.
3: Felix - Too few wins. Wins are overrated by the voters, but a difference of 10 is hard to ignore.
4: Buchholz - Too few innings, 70 less than CC is too many.
If Felix finishes the season leading the field in every single category except wins, and in most of the advanced stats, I think he should win it, same as Greinke. I don't think he will, but I still think he should.
If CC can finish with an ERA under 3 with his 20 wins I think he should lock it up.
"When white belts want to learn jiu jitsu they go to a black belt. When black belts want to learn jiu jitsu they go to John Danaher."
You really couldnt argue with 23 wins and a sub 3 ERA in the AL East, though Felix with all those innings pitched and strikeouts make a strong case.
Also-23 wins would be freaking amazing, correct me if I am wrong but that would be the most since Pettitte won 21 ins 2003.
The loser now will be later to win...
I agree with StatenIslandYankee. If CC can notch maybe 22+ wins with an ERA at or under 3, he'll get it for sure.
jsut hoping CC can get atleast 20 wins for the first time, CY Young would also be good
The real reason why the Yankees keep winning is cause the other team can't stop staring at the damn pinstripes
I wish they'd stop tracking wins for pitchers.
That can't happen because wins is what the game of baseball is based on....
To seek the sacred river Alph, To walk the caves of ice
To break my fast on honey dew, And drink the milk of paradise
Well considering a pitcher isn't the only player responsible for the the team winning the game they shouldn't get all the credit for it. It's always been stupid and it still is.
The original figuring of the game was that the pitcher was the most responsible party.
I suppose you could give wins and losses to catchers, but that wouldn't seem right.
I don't think wins and losses to pitchers is stupid. I think the way the wins are awarded to pitchers is a little befuccling, but the overall concept is OK.
Also, the way awards and rankings depend on a those wins is a little bit backwards too.
I like the game the way it is... If people choose to use a pitcher's wins to weigh how good he is, that is their perogative.
To seek the sacred river Alph, To walk the caves of ice
To break my fast on honey dew, And drink the milk of paradise
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